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Fuel system with return line.

Posted By: 383man

Fuel system with return line. - 05/08/12 07:19 PM

I am curious about what press regulator some of you are using on carb systems when using a return line setup ? Is it a reg with the return line fitting on it ? Ron
Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: Fuel system with return line. - 05/08/12 07:22 PM

I use the Aeromotive 13301.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Aeromotive/027/133...NDOR_Aeromotive
Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: Fuel system with return line. - 05/08/12 07:27 PM

http://www.jegs.com/i/Mallory/650/4309/10002/-1?parentProductId=745077
Posted By: jamesc

Re: Fuel system with return line. - 05/08/12 08:58 PM

there are plenty of them out there and i'm sure a lot of pretty good ones. though i've never used one of these i think it's a nice setup

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Fuel system with return line. - 05/08/12 09:03 PM

I`m running the recommended return style reg. w/my Magnafuel 300 pump and what a difference over my other set-up.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Fuel system with return line. - 05/08/12 09:21 PM

Mallory 4 port with return... been on my car since
day one
Posted By: Triple Threat

Re: Fuel system with return line. - 05/08/12 09:49 PM

Aeromotive 13204 here.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Aeromotive/027/13204/10002/-1
Posted By: 383man

Re: Fuel system with return line. - 05/09/12 03:29 PM

Thanks for the replies. I am considering going to the return line setup. Ron
Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: Fuel system with return line. - 05/09/12 03:56 PM

Quote:

Thanks for the replies. I am considering going to the return line setup. Ron



Driving on the street w/ junk pump gas, I'd strongly recommend it!
Posted By: SLOW67

Re: Fuel system with return line. - 05/09/12 04:41 PM

Quote:

http://www.jegs.com/i/Mallory/650/4309/10002/-1?parentProductId=745077




Second on the 4309
Posted By: BM70Dart

Re: Fuel system with return line. - 05/09/12 05:12 PM

I have a holley blue pump and holley return style reg simple setup worksgood on my car
Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Fuel system with return line. - 05/09/12 05:45 PM

Quote:

Thanks for the replies. I am considering going to the return line setup. Ron


Let me just say that some pumps like the Aeromotive I had before although it said it could run a return, could NOT keep up to my engine`s demands........PERIOD.
Posted By: ZIPPY

Re: Fuel system with return line. - 05/09/12 07:18 PM

Quote:

Quote:

http://www.jegs.com/i/Mallory/650/4309/10002/-1?parentProductId=745077




Second on the 4309




Third
Posted By: 383man

Re: Fuel system with return line. - 05/09/12 11:45 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Thanks for the replies. I am considering going to the return line setup. Ron



Driving on the street w/ junk pump gas, I'd strongly recommend it!




I starting have a few problems this year and it seems to be from this cheap pump gas. I had the fuel seem like it was perking when I was around 190 and then it pushed the fuel out the bowl vents and flooded. I got it started and then drove it 20 miles home but it has done this 3 times out of nowhere and only when the car is good and hot. I actually installed a cool can and last time out I went 90 miles with no trouble putting an ice pack in the cool can. So if a return setup will keep the fuel cooler then I think I will go with it. I heard the pump gas was not going to be as good this year with more ethanal. Thanks again , Ron
Posted By: redmist

Re: Fuel system with return line. - 05/11/12 05:51 AM

I have this exact same problem, and it started as soon as the winter blend gas went away. It is aggravating as all heck!! Mine only percolates in the rear bowl though. The front must move enough fuel during cruise to keep it from happening.

As soon as I try to make a WOT Run, it eats all the front bowl, and gets to the back and just sorta shuts off. I can see the gas boiling through the sight glass.

I am also looking at building a return style system to cure it.
Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: Fuel system with return line. - 05/11/12 01:30 PM

I first ran into this problem a couple years ago. Driving home from work (65 mph on the highway mostly) I stopped at the gas station, then the car was a bear to refire. Flooding out, would run briefly then die, blah blah blah. Had that happen a couple of times after that before I broke down and spent the money on a bigger pump, regulator, lines, etc. It was definitely worth the money.

Only time I've had an issue w/ it recently was during the True Street race at Rockingham a few weeks ago. We had to do a 10 mile drive, then pull into the lanes w/ NO cool down time and do 3 back to back hot laps down the 1/4 mile. I didn't have enough fuel in the tank so it started recirculating hot fuel...it used more than I anticipated. By my last pass it almost died coming out the water box from the fuel being so hot and trying to vapor-lock. It ran 3 dead on 10.01 at 135 mph passes w/ a broken torque converter and won the class, so I wasn't too upset, lol.
Posted By: jamesc

Re: Fuel system with return line. - 05/11/12 01:47 PM

Quote:

I have this exact same problem, and it started as soon as the winter blend gas went away.




the RVP of winter blend gasoline is higher that that of summer to aid in vaporization, winter blend would be much more likely to have vapor locking and boiling problems.

just curious how many if any of the guys having these types of problems are running some type of insulator under the carb?
Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: Fuel system with return line. - 05/11/12 01:53 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I have this exact same problem, and it started as soon as the winter blend gas went away.




the RVP of winter blend gasoline is higher that that of summer to aid in vaporization, winter blend would be much more likely to have vapor locking and boiling problems.

just curious how many if any of the guys having these types of problems are running some type of insulator under the carb?



I have a 1" wood spacer under the carb.
Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: Fuel system with return line. - 05/11/12 02:06 PM

FWIW
I run a mechanical pump and factory style vapor separator with a return line. I have driven my cars all over the country in very extreme conditions and with all different kinds of gas. My car's fuel system is quiet, stock and dead reliable and would be easy to get parts for anywhere.
I don't need all that fancy racing stuff on my street car. How many of you can say you've driven your car at near wide open throttle for miles at a time, like over 5 miles at a time in 95 degree weather at 6000 feet alitutde? It never ran out of gas. I also drove it in 115 degree temps in Vegas last summer with the AC running the whole time.

I don't need no stinking vapor locking electric fuel pump on my street driven muscle car.

My carbs is bolted right to the intake manifold with no spacer/bandaid.
Posted By: justinp61

Re: Fuel system with return line. - 05/11/12 02:19 PM

I ran a wood spacer on my 340 to stop percolation, it sounded like a coffee pot a few minutes after I shut it off.

When I built the 408 I ran a 1/2" line up the inside of the frame rail to the regulator (non return)from the Holley billet black pump. In real hot weather the car would do the same thing as Rons, it would boil the gas and flood going down the highway. My car has air pans sealing up the front and the carb was sealed to the hood so pretty much the only air going through the engine bay came through the radiator. I fabricated a shield for the line where it passed by the header and removed the air pan sealing the hood but it would still do it in very hot weather.

The fix for me was to route the fuel line over the frame tie behind the trans crossmember, through the inner fender into the wheelwell on the passengers side and through a bulkhead fitting in the front of the inner fender to the regulator mounted there. I also replaced the 3/8" line from the regulator to the carb with 8AN. No issues since, my heat was coming form the headers and the lack of airflow in the engine bay compounded the problem. BYW I'm still using the Holley deadhead regulator.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Fuel system with return line. - 05/11/12 02:40 PM

Quote:

FWIW
I run a mechanical pump and factory style vapor separator with a return line. I have driven my cars all over the country in very extreme conditions and with all different kinds of gas. My car's fuel system is quiet, stock and dead reliable and would be easy to get parts for anywhere.
I don't need all that fancy racing stuff on my street car. How many of you can say you've driven your car at near wide open throttle for miles at a time, like over 5 miles at a time in 95 degree weather at 6000 feet alitutde? It never ran out of gas. I also drove it in 115 degree temps in Vegas last summer with the AC running the whole time.

I don't need no stinking vapor locking electric fuel pump on my street driven muscle car.

My carbs is bolted right to the intake manifold with no spacer/bandaid.




Its not the electric pump that is the problem...
pressure reduces vapor lock... its the carb.. I worked
on the 2.2 vapor lock problem and we ended up putting
a reservoir on the side of the carb with a return..
the carb was boiling all the fuel out of it and when
it fired and you took off hard it would fall on its
face till the pump could pump enough fuel in to cool
the carb and fill the bowl(till it cooled it was flashing
the fuel to a boil) keep the return line point as
close to the carb as possible... isolators do work
Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: Fuel system with return line. - 05/11/12 03:08 PM

I understand that a electric pump can work fine on the street. The problem I see with performance pumps is that the suction line usually is not big enough expecially with a stock tank. Lot's of guys struggle with electric fuel pumps because of the suction side is not big enough for all conditions.imo

Yes the key is circulation to keep the fuel cooler.

Yup spacers can and do help alot, but my point is. Properly setup and tuned they are not needed, imo.
Posted By: Crizila

Re: Fuel system with return line. - 05/11/12 03:33 PM

I guess this thread isn't about a fuel delivery issue as much as it as about a fuel temp issue - although they can be some what related. Funny how this topic often pops up around this time of the year when stations are switching over from winter ( 14-16 RVP ) to sommer ( 8 - 10 RVP ) - expressed in PSI - blend. BTW, race gas is usually in the 5-7 RVP range, so not a problem. Cold climate areas also are the most effected as the change over has the biggest RVP swing. There aint no real good solutions for your high powered street machine, but here are some that may help. As said, a fuel return line system will help a little ( not for pre-soak issues though ). Dump your existing winter gas ( if your car has sat for a while ) and put it in the grocery getter ). Fill up from a station that is always busy - best chance to get summer fuel. Run a carb insulator type spacer. Lose those pretty stainless jacketed fuel lines and replace them with ANYTHING not covered with a steel braided jacket. Run the lines / regulator as far away from the engine as possible. Get the heat out of the engine bay. Run electric fans for a few minutes after shutdown - like at the gas pump while you are filling up or - raise the hood. Remove the inner fenderwell splash guards. Raise up the back of the hood an inch or two ( ala old school ). Run a 160 stat - if your system can stay on it - or no stat. Insulate your headers - and fuel lines. BTW, the fuel in the old Thermoquad ran about 10-15 degrees cooler with their plastic fuel bowls ( guess this problem has been around for a while ). Looks like the new Demon street carbs are trying to address it also. IMO, the biggest problem is heat trapped in the engine bay. What ever you can do to reduce it will be the biggest help in solving this problem.
Posted By: 383man

Re: Fuel system with return line. - 05/12/12 04:12 AM

I run a 1" plastic spacer and even put a heat shield under the carb to see if it helps. It only seems to do it after its hot and shut down for a few minutes you know a hot soak. Thats when it seems to happen. Never had any problems last year or ever before. Ron
Posted By: 383man

Re: Fuel system with return line. - 05/12/12 04:19 AM

Quote:

FWIW
I run a mechanical pump and factory style vapor separator with a return line. I have driven my cars all over the country in very extreme conditions and with all different kinds of gas. My car's fuel system is quiet, stock and dead reliable and would be easy to get parts for anywhere.
I don't need all that fancy racing stuff on my street car. How many of you can say you've driven your car at near wide open throttle for miles at a time, like over 5 miles at a time in 95 degree weather at 6000 feet alitutde? It never ran out of gas. I also drove it in 115 degree temps in Vegas last summer with the AC running the whole time.

I don't need no stinking vapor locking electric fuel pump on my street driven muscle car.

My carbs is bolted right to the intake manifold with no spacer/bandaid.





It has nothing to do with the fact I use an electric pump. The electric pump is better for fighting vapor lock since fuel is coming up under pressure. There is no way a mech pump would be better and I would not waste my time using one. There is no way you could drive your car here in Md using this pump gas with no heat spacer under the carb at 115 degrees. Either your car only runs 140 degrees or you have some mighty fine gas out there. Ron
Posted By: ZIPPY

Re: Fuel system with return line. - 05/15/12 02:54 PM

Under extended WOT high speed conditions there is usually plenty of airflow in the engine bay and lots of fuel consumption keeping everything reasonably cool.

In other words, the exact opposite of what causes the issue

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