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NEVER believe a SRT Engineer

Posted By: MattW

NEVER believe a SRT Engineer - 03/22/12 01:46 AM

The crank will physically fit..yes...however you'll crash valves without a reduction in valve lift. The Tone Rings have been changed...yes they are interchangeable...make sure you change your crank sensor too if you do that.

Originally Posted by mattw
Will a 6.4 production crankshaft fit in a 5.7 6.1 2003-2008 hemi?
I know the crankshaft toner ring has been changed since 2009.
Will the toner rings from earlier hemi bolt on a production 6.4 crankshaft?
Matt
I posted this to a bunch of SRT engineers and their response was written on top.
Thanks to Steff i found out that the production 6.4 crankshaft has to be machined on the snout to make the early 5.7 6.1 hemi timing chain work. Plus on top of that, found out the toner rings are 3 bolt (early), 4 bolt late model.
How the hell does that make them interchangable.
Posted By: 540challenger

Re: NEVER believe a SRT Engineer - 03/22/12 12:22 PM

Quote:

The crank will physically fit..yes...however you'll crash valves without a reduction in valve lift. The Tone Rings have been changed...yes they are interchangeable...make sure you change your crank sensor too if you do that.

Originally Posted by mattw
Will a 6.4 production crankshaft fit in a 5.7 6.1 2003-2008 hemi?
I know the crankshaft toner ring has been changed since 2009.
Will the toner rings from earlier hemi bolt on a production 6.4 crankshaft?
Matt
I posted this to a bunch of SRT engineers and their response was written on top.
Thanks to Steff i found out that the production 6.4 crankshaft has to be machined on the snout to make the early 5.7 6.1 hemi timing chain work. Plus on top of that, found out the toner rings are 3 bolt (early), 4 bolt late model.
How the hell does that make them interchangable.




Thanks for the post and trying to work it out.

This puts me on hold now on my 3rd gen swap.

My plan was to run a older 5.7 computer and change the tone ring over to the older since i would be using a production 6.4L

Great well not that I could get it moving on the project anyways as there still don't have any 6.4 avail,
Posted By: MattW

Re: NEVER believe a SRT Engineer - 03/22/12 01:58 PM

Quote:

Quote:

The crank will physically fit..yes...however you'll crash valves without a reduction in valve lift. The Tone Rings have been changed...yes they are interchangeable...make sure you change your crank sensor too if you do that.

Originally Posted by mattw
Will a 6.4 production crankshaft fit in a 5.7 6.1 2003-2008 hemi?
I know the crankshaft toner ring has been changed since 2009.
Will the toner rings from earlier hemi bolt on a production 6.4 crankshaft?
Matt
I posted this to a bunch of SRT engineers and their response was written on top.
Thanks to Steff i found out that the production 6.4 crankshaft has to be machined on the snout to make the early 5.7 6.1 hemi timing chain work. Plus on top of that, found out the toner rings are 3 bolt (early), 4 bolt late model.
How the hell does that make them interchangable.




Thanks for the post and trying to work it out.

This puts me on hold now on my 3rd gen swap.

My plan was to run a older 5.7 computer and change the tone ring over to the older since i would be using a production 6.4L

Great well not that I could get it moving on the project anyways as there still don't have any 6.4 avail,




Machining the front snout is no big deal and I suppose you could make a billet wheel to fit the 6.4 and run the older computer.
I THINK I was pretty specific in my question.
I think the SRT group need some old fashion hot rodders
Like stick the 6.4 in everything. IMPO you dont need the SRT badging on everything.
Everything about an SRT product is different. Bearing, caliper, rotor, upper lower control arms steering interior.
Take the 6.4 and put it into the ram 1500. Beef up the tranny and nothing else. Matt
Posted By: 2734bbl

Re: NEVER believe a SRT Engineer - 03/22/12 04:25 PM

Aww man !! so much for a cheaper alternative for stroker parts.

I wonder if the 3 bolt tone ring can be welded up and the correct bolt pattern drilled into it?
Posted By: STEFF

Re: NEVER believe a SRT Engineer - 03/22/12 05:29 PM

My 08' 6.1 Crank has 4 screws for the tone ring.
Posted By: MattW

Re: NEVER believe a SRT Engineer - 03/22/12 06:29 PM

Quote:

My 08' 6.1 Crank has 4 screws for the tone ring.




I got a 2006 5.7 and it is showing 3 bolts MAYBE theres hope.
So use a toner ring from an 6.1 crank.
Posted By: MattW

Re: NEVER believe a SRT Engineer - 03/22/12 06:43 PM

Quote:

My 08' 6.1 Crank has 4 screws for the tone ring.




How many teeth on your 6.1. 3 bolt is 32 and 4 bolt is 52 IIRC.
Posted By: STEFF

Re: NEVER believe a SRT Engineer - 03/22/12 08:34 PM

I'll check it when I get home this evening.
Posted By: cudaman1969

Re: NEVER believe a SRT Engineer - 03/23/12 12:45 AM

This is what burns me up about chrysler, they can't make just one hemi engine and then come out with upgraded parts that fits all. Not enough money that way so you sell what you got and buy the new stuff. We're all billionaires!
Posted By: STEFF

Re: NEVER believe a SRT Engineer - 03/23/12 12:48 AM

08' 6.1 Tone Wheel: 4 Bolt Mtg.............31 Small Teeth, One Large Tooth
Posted By: MattW

Re: NEVER believe a SRT Engineer - 03/23/12 01:29 AM

Quote:

08' 6.1 Tone Wheel: 4 Bolt Mtg.............31 Small Teeth, One Large Tooth



Same as my 5.7 with 3 bolts.
So the 6.1 ring fixes the 6.4 problem but the toner ring does not come seperate you need to purchase a crank.
Maybe a market for this item.
Thanks Steff this is the stuff that really helps
Posted By: STEFF

Re: NEVER believe a SRT Engineer - 03/23/12 01:44 AM

No problem Matt.
Posted By: ZIPPY

Re: NEVER believe a SRT Engineer - 03/23/12 04:18 PM

Learn something new everyday!

The one 6.4 that I worked on, really did have a 3 bolt
tone ring

It was a pre-production mule that had been rode hard and put away in a basket, and I've only rebuilt that one....no production engines.

I'm going to take a wild guess:
Maybe whoever was on that chat session saw the engine around the same timeframe as the one I saw, and they assumed it didn't change...

At any rate: oopsie...

Summary:
I'm glad you didn't ask me, I would have told you the same thing
Posted By: MattW

Re: NEVER believe a SRT Engineer - 03/24/12 12:13 AM

Quote:

Learn something new everyday!

The one 6.4 that I worked on, really did have a 3 bolt
tone ring

It was a pre-production mule that had been rode hard and put away in a basket, and I've only rebuilt that one....no production engines.

I'm going to take a wild guess:
Maybe whoever was on that chat session saw the engine around the same timeframe as the one I saw, and they assumed it didn't change...

At any rate: oopsie...

Summary:
I'm glad you didn't ask me, I would have told you the same thing




Maybe I went overboard Possibly moon cycle.
Any rate contacted K1 and bought one of there 4 bolt 32 teeth Reluctor wheel AKA toner ring.
Will see if it bolts to the 6.4 crankshaft.
Got a couple of other questions.
1 On a 06 5.7 what is the 3 prong plug at the rear of the block. Looks like a block heater BUT does not enter the coolant system.
2 The head bolts ingage into the block at a depth of 1.5 inches. Was this done to limit distortion.
Posted By: Dave_S

Re: NEVER believe a SRT Engineer - 03/24/12 12:21 AM

that plug is a block heater. It doesn't go into the water jacket...one less potential leak.
Posted By: MattW

Re: NEVER believe a SRT Engineer - 03/24/12 12:43 AM

Thx
Posted By: MattW

Re: NEVER believe a SRT Engineer - 03/28/12 03:50 PM

Quote:

Quote:

08' 6.1 Tone Wheel: 4 Bolt Mtg.............31 Small Teeth, One Large Tooth



Same as my 5.7 with 3 bolts.
So the 6.1 ring fixes the 6.4 problem but the toner ring does not come seperate you need to purchase a crank.
Maybe a market for this item.
Thanks Steff this is the stuff that really helps



So I contacted Wiseco and purchase their 32 4 bolt reluctor wheel.
IT FITS the 6.4 production crankshaft. Wiseco part # TR-32
Now i'm off to by a lotto ticket
Posted By: ZIPPY

Re: NEVER believe a SRT Engineer - 03/28/12 07:54 PM

Nice to know the aftermarket is supporting those
Posted By: polyspheric

Re: NEVER believe a SRT Engineer - 03/28/12 08:35 PM

They have to use up the smaller motors.
Posted By: MattW

Re: NEVER believe a SRT Engineer - 03/28/12 08:38 PM

????
Posted By: MattW

Re: NEVER believe a SRT Engineer - 03/28/12 08:40 PM

Do you know if the 09 5.7 factory replacement piston and rod assembly come in oversize bores?
Posted By: ZIPPY

Re: NEVER believe a SRT Engineer - 03/28/12 09:47 PM

Never seen that on the pistons but in the interest of full disclosure will mention I have only built the
2008-down 5.7s. There was only two PNs for piston and rod assy's, left and right bank.

Bearings are another story though, different letter codes are used for the bearings so the clearance can be fine tuned slightly.
Posted By: MattW

Re: NEVER believe a SRT Engineer - 03/29/12 12:14 AM

Same as the 09 and up. So its probably stock size. Thanks
Time for aftermarket.
Posted By: ric3xrt

Re: NEVER believe a SRT Engineer - 09/12/17 12:58 PM

the area behind the timing gear/oil pump drive is what needs to be machined.
Blue back ground photo is 03-08 crank
The other is a VVT crank.

Attached picture 5.7 VVT crank - Copy.jpg
Attached picture 5.7 03-08.jpg
Posted By: Paul_Fancsali

Re: NEVER believe a SRT Engineer - 09/12/17 05:11 PM

They sound like Fords every engine is different you will soon find it impossible not to use anything but stock parts
Posted By: dogdays

Re: NEVER believe a SRT Engineer - 09/12/17 09:52 PM

It shouldn't be different in Canada, maybe it is: But in the USA, TONER is what you put in a Xerox machine.

A TONE RING is what through some pickup device, tells the computer how fast the shaft is turning and in some cases, where it is on the rotation.

And I thought it was just a couple of days ago where the conversion tone rings were mentioned and their suppliers specified.

All these different tooth counts make no real sense, when Electromotive standardized the 60 - 2 tooth wheel around 15 years ago.

R.
Posted By: HotRodDave

Re: NEVER believe a SRT Engineer - 09/13/17 07:00 PM

No where near as bad as ford yet but they are trying.

This should be in the Gen III area, good info here.
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