Moparts

400 BB Mopar budget dyno test***MORE PICS

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

400 BB Mopar budget dyno test***MORE PICS - 03/04/12 02:53 AM

Just finished doing a 2 part build using a 400BB Mopar.
We took a steel 383 crank, stock rods, KB flat top pistons and filled the stock 400 block. First test was with 906 heads, milled .050 for 79cc and compression was 9.8:1 and zero decked.

We chose a thumpr hyd. cam, stock rockers, bowl cleanup in the ports, stock valve sizes (manley valves)and comp single springs.
Topped with an rpm intake, 1" open spacer and a box stock 750holley it made 427HP @ 5700rpm and 443Tq @ 4200rpm using TTI 1 7/8 headers. Here's a pic....

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Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/04/12 02:55 AM

Heads:

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Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/04/12 02:56 AM

bowl cleanup

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Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/04/12 02:59 AM

I'll post more pics of the complete engine and dyno sheet monday.

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Posted By: cheapstreetdustr

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/04/12 03:08 AM



Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/04/12 05:20 AM

Brian, any bigger carbs on the tests coming
Posted By: Darryls-Demon

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/04/12 06:43 AM

Do you have a smaller set of headers to try Brian?
Posted By: 383man

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/04/12 06:44 AM

We have a stock stoke .030 over 400 in my boys Dart with the 383 crank. It has KB pistons and with Eddy RPM heads that we cut it has 10.6 comp. Has the MP .557 cam and a 750 DP. Never dyno'd it but in his 3550 lb Dart it has run 11.40's @ 117. Its pump gas drive anywhere street car. Thats real nice looking 400 you have there. Do you plan to try and dyno the 400 with any other combo's in it ? Ron
Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/04/12 06:59 AM

I think the potential for much more power is there and I can say we did try a different topend package/camshaft and had good results.
I can't post that info yet...sorry.

Given the Thumpr cam has kinda low lift, especially using stock rockers I was surprised.

It sounded awesome with both setups and never missed a beat. Super simple combo that made great power everywhere. When I post the dyno sheets you'll see what I mean...very W I D E powerband.
Posted By: tboomer

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/04/12 02:05 PM

Brian....I remember you saying that you were going to try a set of standard port Victors on a moder....Is this the one?
Posted By: cudadon

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/04/12 03:58 PM

Ron I never had any luck with 557 cam. simple upgrade to 590. BIG difference!
If yoour son wants to go faster, that will be easy/cheap fix.
Don

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Posted By: scatpacktom

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/04/12 04:57 PM

What is going on with the guides in those 906 heads?
Posted By: 440Jim

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/04/12 05:15 PM

Nice to hear about a true low budget, mild build for the everyday hobbiest.

I am sure a set of Edelbrock RPM or similar heads would make a bunch more power, but at an added price. That cam sounds pretty small/mild also, but not everyone wants to trade off manners below 3000 rpm for the power above that.

And instead of that 383 (3.38" stroke) crank, a 3.75" crank would add 451/406=1.11 more pull. Again, at an added cost ~$100 (regrind) to $700 (new crank).
Posted By: Streetwize

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/04/12 05:18 PM

Dom,

That 590 cam might be just big enough to be a torque killer on Ron's son's 406. With his combo and weight the 557 seems to be to be just about right and it works very well for what is essentially a solid running and reliablly consistent package. 383-400's are more cam sensitive than any other motors in our stable due to that long rod short stroke. If I were to do anything on a 406 like that I'd run the longer 6.76 LY rod to get the piston weight down and lighten up the bob...that would work the heads even harder up top with no real downside.
Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/04/12 05:47 PM

Quote:

What is going on with the guides in those 906 heads?



Not sure what you mean?
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/04/12 06:21 PM

Quote:

Quote:

What is going on with the guides in those 906 heads?



Not sure what you mean?



It looks like there is a lot of FUZZ on the guides in the pictures you took ?
Posted By: RemCharger

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/04/12 08:52 PM


Nice build. My street 383 is similar and I had always figured it made around that #.
Mine was close to tickling a 12 in a 4000lb package without a real fancy convertor. I'm sure with a 4800 stall it would have done it.
Now we need to see it run with some good stuff!
Posted By: hudsonhornet7x

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/04/12 09:20 PM

I have a question about the cam choice. I see a thumpr cam was used. Are they really a good choice with a wide powerband? When I look them up many people say they are junk, so it would be nice to hear the opposite in this case.
Posted By: Crazy68Dart

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/04/12 10:19 PM

I think the thumper is ground to sound more nasty than it really is? Similar to the Hughes Whiplash.

What pistons are you using? You using the B or RB rods?
Posted By: WO23Coronet

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/04/12 10:24 PM

Quote:

Just finished doing a 2 part build using a 400BB Mopar.
We took a steel 383 crank, stock rods, KB flat top pistons and filled the stock 400 block. First test was with 906 heads, milled .050 for 79cc and compression was 9.8:1 and zero decked.

We chose a thumpr hyd. cam, stock rockers, bowl cleanup in the ports, stock valve sizes (manley valves)and comp single springs.
Topped with an rpm intake, 1" open spacer and a box stock 750holley it made 427HP @ 5700rpm and 443Tq @ 4200rpm using TTI 1 7/8 headers. Here's a pic....



What are the specs on the Thumpr cam and is it a tall fill or short fill? What kind of water and oil temps were you seeing with the fill? Also, how much of a recess is left in the chambers in the quench area after milling the heads .050? Where you able to get any kind of half decent quench clearences? Or will I have to wait for the magazine article to find out?
Posted By: 383man

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/04/12 10:35 PM

Thanks for the comments about my boys Dart. We are happy with it for a 400 pump gas driver at 3550 and 3.91's. I keep telling him I will help him step it up some but he has his mind set on turbo charging it down the road ! Well who knows ?
I remember one of the Mopar mags did a 400 build and dynoed it about 10 years or so back and I know I have the mag in my pile of a mllion or so mags. I cant remember what it made but I remember it was a budget build. Ron
Posted By: Chris2581

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/04/12 10:39 PM

Quote:

I think the potential for much more power is there and I can say we did try a different topend package/camshaft and had good results.
I can't post that info yet...sorry.



Hopefully you can soon..I am VERY interested in this engine combo.
Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/05/12 12:36 AM

We didn't fill the water jackets...sorry if that was misleading.
I meant we just used a stock block with stock parts and KB pistons.

Everytime I use the Thumpr cams they make good power with a very wide powerband. We probably could have made more power with the 275HL cam but I like that the thumpr is on a 107lca and with low compression it helps kick up the low end power.

Plus with stock rockers, too much lift is a bad thing.
The heads flowed 243cfm at .550 lift and 241 at .500 I think.
From the crack of the intake valve it really flowed well up to .500 lift.

I believe there was about .045 left of the open chamber, so with a .045 gasket it was about .090 which can be bad if you don't plan it right. We installed the cam straight up instead of advanced like Comp recommends to keep from having too much cranking psi and to give some top end power to a stock headed/rocker arm'd build.

I'm sorry I forgot to take pics of the dyno sheet, I know that will answer alot of questions but I can tell you I wouldn't hesitate building this exact combo for a customer...except I would recommend a 1.6 aftermarket rocker assembly for power and durability reasons. I don't know just how long the stock rockers will hold up to 6000rpm and 280lbs. of spring pressure.
Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/05/12 12:44 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Just finished doing a 2 part build using a 400BB Mopar.
We took a steel 383 crank, stock rods, KB flat top pistons and filled the stock 400 block. First test was with 906 heads, milled .050 for 79cc and compression was 9.8:1 and zero decked.

We chose a thumpr hyd. cam, stock rockers, bowl cleanup in the ports, stock valve sizes (manley valves)and comp single springs.
Topped with an rpm intake, 1" open spacer and a box stock 750holley it made 427HP @ 5700rpm and 443Tq @ 4200rpm using TTI 1 7/8 headers. Here's a pic....



What are the specs on the Thumpr cam and is it a tall fill or short fill? What kind of water and oil temps were you seeing with the fill? Also, how much of a recess is left in the chambers in the quench area after milling the heads .050? Where you able to get any kind of half decent quench clearences? Or will I have to wait for the magazine article to find out?



The thumpr is 227-241@ .050 and 480's-.490's lift. But with stock rockers lift is more like .450's and .460's.
LCA is 107
Posted By: 2734bbl

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/05/12 05:45 PM

At those specs what octane gas are you using? Waht would you gues the power out put to be for a 440 vs 400?
Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/05/12 07:39 PM

Quote:

At those specs what octane gas are you using? Waht would you gues the power out put to be for a 440 vs 400?



We used AM/PM 91 octane from a pump.

440 should make a few more HP, and around 30-40 more TQ.
Posted By: 2734bbl

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/06/12 12:29 AM

Quote:

Quote:

At those specs what octane gas are you using? Waht would you gues the power out put to be for a 440 vs 400?



We used AM/PM 91 octane from a pump.

440 should make a few more HP, and around 30-40 more TQ.



(quote)I believe there was about .045 left of the open chamber, so with a .045 gasket it was about .090 which can be bad if you don't plan it right. We installed the cam straight up instead of advanced like Comp recommends to keep from having too much cranking psi and to give some top end power to a stock headed/rocker arm'd build(quote)

I assume this means this engine was built in mind to not be detonation prone with 91 octane in a street car?

The reason I ask is I have a 440 (with KBs) at zero deck with(same gasket) 452s and a smaller Powerizer cam (467/262 232@.50 IIRC) and I had detonation problem when it got to be summer time. The engine stayed about 190-200 or so when it was 95* outside. I started to lose a lobe so know I have to replace the camshaft.

I plan to mirror your recipe so I know what to expect.

Thank you
Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/06/12 12:59 AM

In order to curb detonation, you need to keep temps as controlled as possible.
Actually, this engine was zero decked for the 2nd part build which used closed chamber heads. And at .090 between the head and piston...you could have detonation during the hotter months.
I suggest milling the heads a bit less, and removing anything in the chamber that might be sharp.
I would also run a step colder plug than stock. And total timing should be kept to 35 max. This is if you live in hotter climates and closer to sea level. The higher up you go, the less it trouble it will be.
I also did not advance the cam...even at 9.8:1 so you have to be carefull what you do!!
Brian
Posted By: 2734bbl

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/06/12 01:17 AM

Interesting you post this because I was trying to decide if I should mill the 452s as you did here or go 915s. I could go either way right now as I have both available.

The engine ran plenty good I just had to start pulling out timing as the summer temps got up there.In the end I had 10* out of it but it was 100* plus outside !
Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/06/12 01:31 AM

Toss on one of these and don't worry about detonation. You can run 93 (or 91) and run full advance. AND it will give you 30-60 added HP for about $300.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYw2q7igDGs

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Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/06/12 02:33 AM

Quote:

Interesting you post this because I was trying to decide if I should mill the 452s as you did here or go 915s. I could go either way right now as I have both available.

The engine ran plenty good I just had to start pulling out timing as the summer temps got up there.In the end I had 10* out of it but it was 100* plus outside !



I tried like you can't believe to find a set of 915's so I could take advantage of the zero decking but I had no luck.
These 906's were virgin, so I did get lucky there. I would use the 915's and set the chambers at 79cc.
You will have to chamber cut them and work them a little but it's worth it.
Posted By: Mopar dragster

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/06/12 03:26 AM

I just sold a set of 915's on here two weeks ago ready to go with new stainless valves, hardened seats, the whole shebang.




Quote:

Quote:

Interesting you post this because I was trying to decide if I should mill the 452s as you did here or go 915s. I could go either way right now as I have both available.

The engine ran plenty good I just had to start pulling out timing as the summer temps got up there.In the end I had 10* out of it but it was 100* plus outside !



I tried like you can't believe to find a set of 915's so I could take advantage of the zero decking but I had no luck.
These 906's were virgin, so I did get lucky there. I would use the 915's and set the chambers at 79cc.
You will have to chamber cut them and work them a little but it's worth it.

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/06/12 06:10 AM

Pic 1

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Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/06/12 06:10 AM

Pic 2

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Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/06/12 06:11 AM

Pic 3

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Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/06/12 06:11 AM

Pic 4

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Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/06/12 06:12 AM

Pic 5

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Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/06/12 06:12 AM

Pic 6

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Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/06/12 06:13 AM

Pic 7

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Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/06/12 06:13 AM

Pic 8

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Posted By: 64Post

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/06/12 10:47 PM

Now try it with a 4.15 crank and 11.0 comp...

Then add OOTB Eddys and a little more cam...

Then add MCH Eddys and a little more cam...

Then add maybe a Victor jr. and 2" headers...

thanks
Posted By: Rapid340

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/07/12 01:09 AM

I often have more fun doing a budget build than a build where cost isnt much of an issue.

Thanks for sharing the results.

Posted By: CLEVO351

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/07/12 08:33 AM

Brian
It started getting a bit rich in the top end looking at the A/F and BSFC, there could of been a little more power there.
Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/07/12 09:01 AM

Quote:

Brian
It started getting a bit rich in the top end looking at the A/F and BSFC, there could of been a little more power there.



I think because of the non adjustable rockers, and having about .050 depression on the lifter plunger, we were seeing some lifter pump up causing erratic #'s.
For sure, with different rockers power could go up a fair amount. I thought the TQ curve was pretty good as well as the wide powerband for such a short stroke.
Posted By: EchoSixMike

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/07/12 01:12 PM

So, given a choice, adding some roller rockers would BE the 1st money you'd spend additionally? The HS Mancini's, for example? S/F....Ken M

edited to make sense
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/07/12 04:02 PM

Quote:

So, given a choice, adding some roller rockers would the 1st money you'd spend additionally? The HS Mancini's, for example? S/F....Ken M



I would ask that question as adding an adjustable rocker or the correct length pushrods.
Posted By: gregsdart

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/07/12 04:24 PM

Being a budget build, what about some cast steel rockers? Cheaper, will work with a lot of cams, including mild rollers.
I have often considered a 400 stock stroke motor to have some advantages as a bracket motor as well as a cheap street combo with good potential. Lower torque off the line would really make consistency easier to achieve. A juice cam and pump gas equals cheap, many runs before maintenance racing!
Posted By: RemCharger

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/07/12 04:36 PM

Quote:

Quote:

So, given a choice, adding some roller rockers would the 1st money you'd spend additionally? The HS Mancini's, for example? S/F....Ken M



I would ask that question as adding an adjustable rocker or the correct length pushrods.

My cure was comp Pro magnum lifters and adjustable pushrods. 6500 rpm reliable.(xe 284)
Posted By: RemCharger

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/07/12 04:40 PM

Quote:

Now try it with a 4.15 crank and 11.0 comp...

Then add OOTB Eddys and a little more cam...

Then add MCH Eddys and a little more cam...

Then add maybe a Victor jr. and 2" headers...

thanks

My take would be
same crank and 13:1 pistons

then add 325 440-1s

then add 275/282 roller cam

then add 1050 pro sys dommy

then add another one.
Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/07/12 05:20 PM

I'd like to see what a MW style head and roller cam/compression would do too....hmmmmm.
Posted By: 64Post

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/07/12 05:38 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Now try it with a 4.15 crank and 11.0 comp...

Then add OOTB Eddys and a little more cam...

Then add MCH Eddys and a little more cam...

Then add maybe a Victor jr. and 2" headers...

thanks

My take would be
same crank and 13:1 pistons

then add 325 440-1s

then add 275/282 roller cam

then add 1050 pro sys dommy

then add another one.



I was looking for a budget oriented strong street/strip combo that makes about 650 hp in a stock block. Plus, I have a 4 speed tranny, so I'm kind of limited.

I'm not rich like you guys with your roller cams and high-dollar heads...

Then, when Brian is done building and testing it I can buy it from him at a discount.
Posted By: Dunnuck Racing

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/07/12 05:53 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Brian
It started getting a bit rich in the top end looking at the A/F and BSFC, there could of been a little more power there.



I think because of the non adjustable rockers, and having about .050 depression on the lifter plunger, we were seeing some lifter pump up causing erratic #'s.
For sure, with different rockers power could go up a fair amount. I thought the TQ curve was pretty good as well as the wide powerband for such a short stroke.



I agree,the heavy stock sized valves tend to keep a hydraulic cam from working well at higher rpm's unless everything is just right.
As for leaning it out on the top end for more power,that does not always work out so well. I have spent a lot of time getting a flat A/F across the board before just to find that the engine wanted the extra fuel. It depends on the fuel used and how the engine combo is working with it.
I have also tried it at the track to see how the results from the dyno pan out. I have had to go back to the richer settings on the top end to get the mph back up. Many variables come into play!

Keith
Posted By: RemCharger

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/07/12 06:52 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Now try it with a 4.15 crank and 11.0 comp...

Then add OOTB Eddys and a little more cam...

Then add MCH Eddys and a little more cam...

Then add maybe a Victor jr. and 2" headers...

thanks

My take would be
same crank and 13:1 pistons

then add 325 440-1s

then add 275/282 roller cam

then add 1050 pro sys dommy

then add another one.



I was looking for a budget oriented strong street/strip combo that makes about 650 hp in a stock block. Plus, I have a 4 speed tranny, so I'm kind of limited.

I'm not rich like you guys with your roller cams and high-dollar heads...

Then, when Brian is done building and testing it I can buy it from him at a discount.

Quit wasting your money on 500" big blocks and you can buy good heads too!
Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/07/12 06:58 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Now try it with a 4.15 crank and 11.0 comp...

Then add OOTB Eddys and a little more cam...

Then add MCH Eddys and a little more cam...

Then add maybe a Victor jr. and 2" headers...

thanks

My take would be
same crank and 13:1 pistons

then add 325 440-1s

then add 275/282 roller cam

then add 1050 pro sys dommy

then add another one.



I was looking for a budget oriented strong street/strip combo that makes about 650 hp in a stock block. Plus, I have a 4 speed tranny, so I'm kind of limited.

I'm not rich like you guys with your roller cams and high-dollar heads...

Then, when Brian is done building and testing it I can buy it from him at a discount.

Quit wasting your money on 500" big blocks and you can buy good heads too!



Ha ha! You guys crack me up!!
650HP and budget should not be in the same sentence IMO.
Yeah, the 400 is for sale...even if it's not 650HP!
Posted By: RobX4406

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/07/12 07:23 PM

Quote:

Brian
It started getting a bit rich in the top end looking at the A/F and BSFC, there could of been a little more power there.



Our pump swill may have 20-25% ethanol in it.
Posted By: 64Post

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/07/12 08:15 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Now try it with a 4.15 crank and 11.0 comp...

Then add OOTB Eddys and a little more cam...

Then add MCH Eddys and a little more cam...

Then add maybe a Victor jr. and 2" headers...

thanks

My take would be
same crank and 13:1 pistons

then add 325 440-1s

then add 275/282 roller cam

then add 1050 pro sys dommy

then add another one.



I was looking for a budget oriented strong street/strip combo that makes about 650 hp in a stock block. Plus, I have a 4 speed tranny, so I'm kind of limited.

I'm not rich like you guys with your roller cams and high-dollar heads...

Then, when Brian is done building and testing it I can buy it from him at a discount.

Quit wasting your money on 500" big blocks and you can buy good heads too!



Posted By: gregsdart

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/08/12 12:19 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Now try it with a 4.15 crank and 11.0 comp...

Then add OOTB Eddys and a little more cam...

Then add MCH Eddys and a little more cam...

Then add maybe a Victor jr. and 2" headers...

thanks

My take would be
same crank and 13:1 pistons

then add 325 440-1s

then add 275/282 roller cam

then add 1050 pro sys dommy

then add another one.



I was looking for a budget oriented strong street/strip combo that makes about 650 hp in a stock block. Plus, I have a 4 speed tranny, so I'm kind of limited.

I'm not rich like you guys with your roller cams and high-dollar heads...

Then, when Brian is done building and testing it I can buy it from him at a discount.

Quit wasting your money on 500" big blocks and you can buy good heads too!



Ha ha! You guys crack me up!!
650HP and budget should not be in the same sentence IMO.
Yeah, the 400 is for sale...even if it's not 650HP!


Brian, how do you think this combo would stack up for cheap HP?
406 cubes, hogged out iron heads using the old MP templates, flat tappet mm305 cam, tunnelram with two Thermoquads (by Dave, AKA Quickd100). Won't get much cheaper than that for an all out hp "cheap" build! If the shortblock is built right and the heads flow about 270, should be able to make 600+ anyway.
Posted By: cudadoug

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/08/12 02:33 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Now try it with a 4.15 crank and 11.0 comp...

Then add OOTB Eddys and a little more cam...

Then add MCH Eddys and a little more cam...

Then add maybe a Victor jr. and 2" headers...

thanks

My take would be
same crank and 13:1 pistons

then add 325 440-1s

then add 275/282 roller cam

then add 1050 pro sys dommy

then add another one.



I was looking for a budget oriented strong street/strip combo that makes about 650 hp in a stock block. Plus, I have a 4 speed tranny, so I'm kind of limited.

I'm not rich like you guys with your roller cams and high-dollar heads...

Then, when Brian is done building and testing it I can buy it from him at a discount.

Quit wasting your money on 500" big blocks and you can buy good heads too!



Ha ha! You guys crack me up!!
650HP and budget should not be in the same sentence IMO.
Yeah, the 400 is for sale...even if it's not 650HP!


Brian, how do you think this combo would stack up for cheap HP?
406 cubes, hogged out iron heads using the old MP templates, flat tappet mm305 cam, tunnelram with two Thermoquads (by Dave, AKA Quickd100). Won't get much cheaper than that for an all out hp "cheap" build! If the shortblock is built right and the heads flow about 270, should be able to make 600+ anyway.



I don't know about dyno numbers, but I can chime in with one of my 383 experiences...low dollars and NO SENSE, lemme tell ya! Using 100% used parts, except for rings, bearings, and oil I slapped this together:

*Domed TRW slugs, didn't measure actual CR, but it was zero decked with a measured 80 cc 452 head.
*Resized stock rods with good bolts.
*Those 452 heads went 250-ish on our bench.
*MP 590 cam
*MP single plane and 3310 Holley
*8" converter
*4.89 gears w/a 29.5 slick
*Weight 3420 E-Body
*10.90 @ 122 in real good air

Same motor, heads improved by 15 peak CFM...
*Ultradyne .613/276 @ .050 cam
*Adaptor and 1050 Dominator
*A body at 3180
10.62 @ 125 in Sacto summer air

Then added a TR and twin 1406 (?) Eddy's, more tweaking and got it to go 10.43 @ 126 best. Yes, most all said "it just had" to be a low deck stroker. Those little 383/400/406 wedgies CAN run!
Posted By: 64Post

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/08/12 04:00 AM

The point I was trying to get at is a $3500 after market block, a $2000 Callies crank, $1200 Aluminum rods, $4000+ heads, isn't required for 650 hp. Sure, you can dump $15K+++ in the project if you want, but it really isn't needed.
Posted By: 383man

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/08/12 04:57 AM

Quote:

The point I was trying to get at is a $3500 after market block, a $2000 Callies crank, $1200 Aluminum rods, $4000+ heads, isn't required for 650 hp. Sure, you can dump $15K+++ in the project if you want, but it really isn't needed.




That is definetly true. But I dont think I would want to push a stock block much more the 650 hp. I would say my 493 is pushing about 600 to 610 hp and so far no problems at all with my stock block. Ron
Posted By: 64Post

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/08/12 05:37 AM

Quote:

Quote:

The point I was trying to get at is a $3500 after market block, a $2000 Callies crank, $1200 Aluminum rods, $4000+ heads, isn't required for 650 hp. Sure, you can dump $15K+++ in the project if you want, but it really isn't needed.




That is definetly true. But I dont think I would want to push a stock block much more the 650 hp. I would say my 493 is pushing about 600 to 610 hp and so far no problems at all with my stock block. Ron



Yeah, Ron, 650hp is my personal limit on a stock block and an 18 spline. Some main caps and a girdle and call it good. I already have the girdle kit, just need to get the caps. One of these days I'm going to use that 512 rotating assembly in the shed.

I think the HP estimate of your combo is pretty close.
Posted By: RAMM

Re: 400 BB Mopar budget dyno test - 03/08/12 01:42 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Brian
It started getting a bit rich in the top end looking at the A/F and BSFC, there could of been a little more power there.



I think because of the non adjustable rockers, and having about .050 depression on the lifter plunger, we were seeing some lifter pump up causing erratic #'s.
For sure, with different rockers power could go up a fair amount. I thought the TQ curve was pretty good as well as the wide powerband for such a short stroke.



I agree,the heavy stock sized valves tend to keep a hydraulic cam from working well at higher rpm's unless everything is just right.
As for leaning it out on the top end for more power,that does not always work out so well. I have spent a lot of time getting a flat A/F across the board before just to find that the engine wanted the extra fuel. It depends on the fuel used and how the engine combo is working with it.
I have also tried it at the track to see how the results from the dyno pan out. I have had to go back to the richer settings on the top end to get the mph back up. Many variables come into play!

Keith



Keith has got it right. I have seen this trend many times where the AF ratio doesn't look good but any efforts to correct it loses power. I think it is a sign of inefficiencies. J.Rob
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