Installing a 509 cam in my 69 GTX 440 questions.

Posted By: yfdcap

Installing a 509 cam in my 69 GTX 440 questions. - 02/29/12 12:37 AM

Hello. Been awhile since I have been on the board (so long I had to re-register). I am looking to install a 509 cam in my 69 GTX. It has the stock 440 375 hp motor, 4sd, 355 gears. I realize there are better choices now days but I have my heart set on this cam. My questions are, what am I going to need for this swap? Springs? If yes which ones? I am guessing pushrods. Any ideas? Stock rockers ok? Thanks for any help.
P.S. I did look through pages of searched info. Could not find specific info on this.

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Installing a 509 cam in my 69 GTX 440 questions. - 02/29/12 12:52 AM

Quote:

Hello. Been awhile since I have been on the board (so long I had to re-register). I am looking to install a 509 cam in my 69 GTX. It has the stock 440 375 hp motor, 4sd, 355 gears. I realize there are better choices now days but I have my heart set on this cam. My questions are, what am I going to need for this swap? Springs? If yes which ones? I am guessing pushrods. Any ideas? Stock rockers ok? Thanks for any help.
P.S. I did look through pages of searched info. Could not find specific info on this.

Degree the cam

go from there, check the valve springs you have, if there near 300 to 350 lbs opened and close to 100 to 160 lbs on the seats and can open to .580 without coil bind use them

If not buy some like I described

I would convert to adjustable rockers, nothing exotic needed, and new shafts to match and pushrods also

Posted By: StealthWedge67

Re: Installing a 509 cam in my 69 GTX 440 questions. - 02/29/12 01:35 AM

If doing a cam swap, you really should also install a new timing chain. A good double roller won't set you back much. Advice above is probably just fine, although I personally woild not re-run old springs on a new cam with a drastcally different lobe profile. Pushrods, however, I would not hesitate to re-use what I have on a juice cam as long as they are dimensionally correct and are true. Lastly. Don't forget to budget for timing cover gaskets, intake gaskets / valley pan coolant, etc, etc. That stuff adds up and can ruin a budget.

Process wise, be very careful removing the existing cam. Its easy to ding the cam bearings with a lobe, and a bad enough ding can derail your project. Also, DON'T HOLD SMALL NUTS AND BOLTS OVER THE OPEN LIFTER VALLEY!....... Damhik.

Most of all, Have fun!

Posted By: yfdcap

Re: Installing a 509 cam in my 69 GTX 440 questions. - 02/29/12 01:58 AM

Thanks for the replies. Was hoping to use the stock rockers. Are after market a must?

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: Installing a 509 cam in my 69 GTX 440 questions. - 02/29/12 02:06 AM

I think the stock rockers will be fine. Springs will need help and you do know your 67 push rods will need to be swaped out. I hear advancing it helps...509's don't really get going until about 3200rpm and they like a lot of compression. A stock 67 should be good enough.

Posted By: gch

Re: Installing a 509 cam in my 69 GTX 440 questions. - 02/29/12 02:07 AM

Stock rockers and pushrods will work with the .509 cam.Definitely new springs.Degree the cam as stated and consider advancing it a few degrees for better performance with your 3.55's.

Posted By: Sport440

Re: Installing a 509 cam in my 69 GTX 440 questions. - 02/29/12 02:15 AM

Quote:

Thanks for the replies. Was hoping to use the stock rockers. Are after market a must?

No, but they are a good idea. Ive tossed pushrods with stock rockers before with the smaller MP 484 cam.

Id run that cam around 104* ICL. With your stock pistons and No valve reliefs, your going to be really close with your piston to valve clearences. Maybe even to close to run it with your motor without grinding the pistons with intake valve reliefs.

Great cam though!! Run it if you can

Posted By: Dodgem

Re: Installing a 509 cam in my 69 GTX 440 questions. - 02/29/12 02:54 AM

I'd install it at 103 maybe even 102! they really wake up with a couple three extra degree's of cam advance!

Posted By: Sport440

Re: Installing a 509 cam in my 69 GTX 440 questions. - 02/29/12 03:53 AM

Quote:

I'd install it at 103 maybe even 102! they really wake up with a couple three extra degree's of cam advance!

I wouldnt disagree with this at all, if you can advance it that far with your stock engine. Your intake P/V clearence will be the limiting factor on that.

Posted By: yfdcap

Re: Installing a 509 cam in my 69 GTX 440 questions. - 02/29/12 04:31 AM

All good stuff. So if I do rockers what do you all recommend? I am pretty new to mopars. Hate to say it here but I have been a chevy guy for 35 years.
Thanks again.

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: Installing a 509 cam in my 69 GTX 440 questions. - 02/29/12 01:19 PM

Depends on if you want to go adjustable or not. The MP Heavy Duty rockers should be fine. You can probablt find a set of rockers and shafts on 'bay for around $100.

Posted By: 340B5

Re: Installing a 509 cam in my 69 GTX 440 questions. - 02/29/12 02:26 PM

If you want the .509 for the sound, well I understand. But if you want power and a little more driveability, I would suggest the Racer Brown STH-42. At .520 lift and 254@ .050 dur. it will idle lower and make more power. Also sounds great, but not quite as "radical" as the .509.

You could use 1.6 rockers w/ the .509 if you're dead set on that cam.

Edit: Here's an article mentioning the ST-H-42

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?topic=6561.0;wap2

Posted By: 383man

Re: Installing a 509 cam in my 69 GTX 440 questions. - 02/29/12 04:33 PM

I ran the MP .484 cam before with stock rockers but I had to use shims under the rocker shafts to get the right lifter preload. Mancini sells these shims if you decide on stock rockers you may need them. If you decide on adjustable rockers you might find a nice set of iron ductile rockers on E-bay unless you want roller rockers then I believe you can still get the Crane gold. I myself use the Hughes roller rockers and I really like them. Definetly install the .509 at around 102 to 104 but make sure you check the piston to valve clearence and also check the valve guide to the valve retainer clearence as they can be very close with that cam on stock heads. Good luck , Ron

Posted By: yfdcap

Re: Installing a 509 cam in my 69 GTX 440 questions. - 02/29/12 04:49 PM

Great info, thanks again.

Posted By: ProStDodge

Re: Installing a 509 cam in my 69 GTX 440 questions. - 02/29/12 05:08 PM

Just a quick note - if the car has power brakes, they will NOT work with the .509 cam. So you may need to consider an electric vacuum pump.

I tried it on my 70 Coronet R/T Convertible back in 1980. Had good brakes from 100mph to 15mph, but no brakes from 15mph to 0mph.

Posted By: ZIPPY

Re: Installing a 509 cam in my 69 GTX 440 questions. - 02/29/12 05:29 PM

Advance 2 to 4 degrees, Mr Gasket 925B curve kit to get some of the bottom end torque back, correct valve springs, a good set of headers, preferably a 3.91 gear or better, tuning to prevent the carb from operating on the wrong circuit at idle, and that should do it

Posted By: Dodgem

Re: Installing a 509 cam in my 69 GTX 440 questions. - 02/29/12 05:36 PM

Quote:

Just a quick note - if the car has power brakes, they will NOT work with the .509 cam. So you may need to consider an electric vacuum pump.

I tried it on my 70 Coronet R/T Convertible back in 1980. Had good brakes from 100mph to 15mph, but no brakes from 15mph to 0mph.

????? My GTX has power brakes and I ran a 509 for 8 years then a 533 for 5 then a big solid then a big roller and it still has power brakes????
just set the idle at 900 to 1100 and life is good. lots of idle advance too over 32 at 1000 in gear!

Posted By: 440lebaron

Re: Installing a 509 cam in my 69 GTX 440 questions. - 02/29/12 06:30 PM

on most engines with 509 cam. exhaust valves will touch pistons, they did on my 73 440 which most likly had lower pistons, a thicker head gasket might help, also have seen 509 cams push pushrod thru stock rocker, mopar used to have HD stock rockers i dont think you can get them anymore

Posted By: MoparDonny

Re: Installing a 509 cam in my 69 GTX 440 questions. - 03/01/12 01:22 AM

Quote:

????? My GTX has power brakes and I ran a 509 for 8 years then a 533 for 5 then a big solid then a big roller and it still has power brakes????
just set the idle at 900 to 1100 and life is good. lots of idle advance too over 32 at 1000 in gear!

Maybe it "still has" power brakes but nobody can tell me they work fine with a 509. You get one or two pumps at it then it's a two footer, big time.

I ran a 509 in a late 67 production 440 advanced 4 degrees with some distributor work for a tighter advance curve with more initial timing, 16 initial and 36 total. worked great but brakes "most likely" will suffer. Every combo is different but be prepared for a little tuning.

Posted By: jcastle1

Re: Installing a 509 cam in my 69 GTX 440 questions. - 03/01/12 02:03 AM

If you want the .509 for the sound, well I understand. But if you want power and a little more driveability, I would suggest the Racer Brown STH-42. At .520 lift and 254@ .050 dur. it will idle lower and make more power. Also sounds great, but not quite as "radical" as the .509.

I agree you should check out this Racer Brown cam.
Don Dulmage knows his stuff!