Moparts

nhra and antifreeze

Posted By: HOT IN AZ

nhra and antifreeze - 02/08/12 04:31 AM

I know NHRA tracks frown upon using antifreeze in your cooling system at there tracks so I was curious as to what you guys use in your cooling system to prevent corrosion with either aluminum or steel radiators. Thanks for your input. Rick
Posted By: superstreet1896

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/08/12 04:33 AM

water wetter for me
Posted By: '72CudaRacer

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/08/12 04:38 AM

Purple Ice. But I do run a small amount of coolant in my engine. If you run the red extended life antifreeze and a drop goes on the ground, they think that its transmission fluid.

Brian Dunnigan
Posted By: Mike Swann

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/08/12 10:00 AM

I used water and drained mine before I rolled it into the trailer.

This with an aluminum motor.
Posted By: hemigod426

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/08/12 10:28 AM

distilled water and water wetter
Posted By: Deepockets

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/08/12 01:10 PM

Quote:

Purple Ice. But I do run a small amount of coolant in my engine. If you run the red extended life antifreeze and a drop goes on the ground, they think that its transmission fluid.

Brian Dunnigan


Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/08/12 01:20 PM

Quote:

distilled water and water wetter




that's it. My junk hardly ever hit's 190 and then as soon as I start driving it drops to 170.
Posted By: smokinwoody

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/08/12 03:00 PM

Purple Ice....and an anti-Corrosion inhibitor.. I think Gunk, Lucas, STP and a few others make this...

but NO anti-freeze....I take it you already know the reasons why they wont allow it!..
Posted By: sc4400

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/08/12 10:58 PM

I've always been curious about "they don't allow it"? Really? I can't find this rule anywhere. Actually dripped some very GREEN anti-freeze at a national event a few years back. All they cared about was did I have the leak fixed. Compared to synthetic oil, cleaning up antifreeze is not a problem. With 75psi oil in several hoses, and 5-10 psi in the cooling system, I worry about oil before coolant.

It will make NO difference what you have cooling your motor if it leaks and gets under the tires.

RIP
Posted By: kissmyaspen

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/08/12 11:06 PM

Quote:

I've always been curious about "they don't allow it"? Really? I can't find this rule anywhere. Actually dripped some very GREEN anti-freeze at a national event a few years back. All they cared about was did I have the leak fixed. Compared to synthetic oil, cleaning up antifreeze is not a problem. With 75psi oil in several hoses, and 5-10 psi in the cooling system, I worry about oil before coolant.

It will make NO difference what you have cooling your motor if it leaks and gets under the tires.

RIP




I'm with you... Its more of a track decision.. Mine has antifreeze in it..
Posted By: tubtar

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/08/12 11:41 PM

Quote:

Compared to synthetic oil, cleaning up antifreeze is not a problem.





But compared to water , it is.
Under the tire is a different issue than cleaning up.
I agree that it doesn't matter what the fluid is at that point.
Then we got your conspiracy theorist angle.......... the coolant manufacturers won't pay contingency and kick back money.
I've run both ........ it depends on the nature of the beast , but street driven cars get anti freeze.
Posted By: MCHBOB

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/08/12 11:58 PM

Watched a 64 aluminum dodge barrel roll down the track after the guy in front of him broke and dropped antifreeze on the track.

If i see one drop of antifreeze near the starting line everything stops and my brother shuts it down and i start walking the lane on the track
Posted By: dusturbd340W5

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/09/12 02:02 AM

if the track runs a street class there are tons of cars going down the track with antifreeze anyway so it really does't matter what you run.
Posted By: bentwheel43

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/09/12 02:18 AM

Quote:

if the track runs a street class there are tons of cars going down the track with antifreeze anyway so it really does't matter what you run.


You right bro!!
Posted By: dmking

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/09/12 02:19 AM

i ran 1 gal antifreeze and the rest (about 3 gal) water. i rusted a block a while back with water and anticrosion assitive.(guess it did not work very well)
Posted By: slippery440

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/09/12 02:44 AM

You guys that think its ok to run antifreeze please stay home and garage race over the internet.If any of you guys ever had a car that had enough power to spin the wheels you would understand the guy in the 8 second car behind you would probly nut you if you spilled antifreeze in his lane. Then the track crew would be next in line and then every racer that has to wait half hour or more to clean up after your junk. Reson water over antifreeze is water will evaporate on a hot track. Leak a mist of antifreeze its not easy to see but it will be like a ice covered road.
Posted By: sc4400

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/09/12 03:07 AM

When I responded to this subject, I knew it wouldn't be long before this type of "righteous" response was presented.

For the record, my 543 KB block/hat/440-1(cnc345) dragster will run easy 7.40's with 50/50 Prestone.

My 565 S/G roadster will run 8.20's with 50/50 Prestone. Every drag car I've been down the track in since 1978 has had anti-freeze. I'm not hard to spot at D4 events, so be sure to give me a bye run!

We return now to regular programming.


BTW, what are the odds you and I would register here on the same day??Go figure that.

RIP
Posted By: rickraw

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/09/12 03:30 AM

not trying to be wise or anything, what about all the street car's that race. they all have anitfreeze.
Posted By: GwaiiEagle

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/09/12 04:11 AM

I ran rad fluid until one guy in the sportsman class yakked the contents of his cooling system on the burnout box, and I watched the volunteers having to clean it up rather than just wiping it away.

I drive 100 miles to the track with water wetter and well water.

I drain it out in October and use the rad fluid I saved from spring.
Posted By: 383man

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/09/12 07:20 AM

Quote:

not trying to be wise or anything, what about all the street car's that race. they all have anitfreeze.




That is so true. When ever I go to a test & tune there are tons of street cars there with anti-freeze in them. It does not matter what you say as long as street driven cars can race at the track there will be alot of cars there with anti-freeze in them. Its just the way it is. Ron
Posted By: slippery440

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/09/12 03:14 PM

Quote:

When I responded to this subject, I knew it wouldn't be long before this type of "righteous" response was presented.

For the record, my 543 KB block/hat/440-1(cnc345) dragster will run easy 7.40's with 50/50 Prestone.

My 565 S/G roadster will run 8.20's with 50/50 Prestone. Every drag car I've been down the track in since 1978 has had anti-freeze. I'm not hard to spot at D4 events, so be sure to give me a bye run!

We return now to regular programming.


BTW, what are the odds you and I would register here on the same day??Go figure that.

RIP




Been racing since 1978 you should be smart enough not to do it and if you already KNEW you would get a self righteous post you should be prepaired to get crap. You dump anitfreeze on the track and you are in the points race or a shootout up here in New York you will be sent home. This is in time trials or T&T. You have a roaster that WILL RUN 8.20s well good luck with that when one of your buddies that think like you drop antifreeze in front of you and the track guys don't see it.People like you have no respect for your fellow racers.
Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/09/12 03:27 PM

Quote:

Quote:

When I responded to this subject, I knew it wouldn't be long before this type of "righteous" response was presented.

For the record, my 543 KB block/hat/440-1(cnc345) dragster will run easy 7.40's with 50/50 Prestone.

My 565 S/G roadster will run 8.20's with 50/50 Prestone. Every drag car I've been down the track in since 1978 has had anti-freeze. I'm not hard to spot at D4 events, so be sure to give me a bye run!

We return now to regular programming.


BTW, what are the odds you and I would register here on the same day??Go figure that.

RIP




Been racing since 1978 you should be smart enough not to do it and if you already KNEW you would get a self righteous post you should be prepaired to get crap. You dump anitfreeze on the track and you are in the points race or a shootout up here in New York you will be sent home. This is in time trials or T&T. You have a roaster that WILL RUN 8.20s well good luck with that when one of your buddies that think like you drop antifreeze in front of you and the track guys don't see it.People like you have no respect for your fellow racers.





Street cars suck on the track.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/09/12 04:04 PM

Ever wonder why the track prep sucks on street car
nights... TNT... they dont want to spray and drag the
track so some street car can dump a load of anti-freeze
on it ... plus it takes them ALOT LONGER to clean that
stuff up
Posted By: 70Cuda383

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/09/12 04:18 PM

Guess we need to tell all the 'punk kids' who finally take it to the track, that sorry, they need to go home because they have anti-freeze in their radiators on their street cars.

makes sense to me, I'd rather they go race on on the streets than to risk one of them getting antifreeze on the track and making me crash.



any argument you make for why antifreeze is bad, applies to ALL fluids, so, sorry, I don't buy it.

"tiny leak, sprays a mist over the track nobody can see"

isn't that possible with an oil line too? guess we need to make everybody drain the oil out of their engines before they race. wouldn't want a fine mist of oil sprayed on the track before you run your 8 second car.


Same with all the automatic transmissions. you could get a tiny leak on one of the coolant lines, and leave a spray of mist of ATF on the track too.

I see it now. next year in the NHRA rule book, all petroleum based products are banned. congratulations, you don't need engine diapers anymore! now you'll just fill your engines, transmissions, radiators, with pure H2O to prevent possibly leaking said slippery products onto the track.
Posted By: kissmyaspen

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/09/12 04:20 PM

Quote:

You guys that think its ok to run antifreeze please stay home and garage race over the internet.If any of you guys ever had a car that had enough power to spin the wheels you would understand the guy in the 8 second car behind you would probly nut you if you spilled antifreeze in his lane. Then the track crew would be next in line and then every racer that has to wait half hour or more to clean up after your junk. Reson water over antifreeze is water will evaporate on a hot track. Leak a mist of antifreeze its not easy to see but it will be like a ice covered road.



dont give me that crap... i have been sideways at 103 in a 13 sec car and it wasnt bcause of antifreeze... even if you get water on the track on a colder night its not gonna be gone quick enough. so its still a hazard... it dont matter what gets on the track its going to be slippery and possibly cause problems.. if we could make every car not break that would fix everything...and the track prep on a tnt tune night sucks because you have so many street cars that tear up the track and not enough big cars to put down rubber..
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/09/12 04:30 PM

Quote:

Guess we need to tell all the 'punk kids' who finally take it to the track, that sorry, they need to go home because they have anti-freeze in their radiators on their street cars.

makes sense to me, I'd rather they go race on on the streets than to risk one of them getting antifreeze on the track and making me crash.



any argument you make for why antifreeze is bad, applies to ALL fluids, so, sorry, I don't buy it.

"tiny leak, sprays a mist over the track nobody can see"

isn't that possible with an oil line too? guess we need to make everybody drain the oil out of their engines before they race. wouldn't want a fine mist of oil sprayed on the track before you run your 8 second car.


Same with all the automatic transmissions. you could get a tiny leak on one of the coolant lines, and leave a spray of mist of ATF on the track too.

I see it now. next year in the NHRA rule book, all petroleum based products are banned. congratulations, you don't need engine diapers anymore! now you'll just fill your engines, transmissions, radiators, with pure H2O to prevent possibly leaking said slippery products onto the track.




I can see that none of the guys ever tried doing a
clean up after a anti-freeze spill.... if you go
out there with a drag you just spread it... so it
has to be wiped up then once cleaned up then hit it
with the drag....... and no I dont think that the
guys/kids should be racing on the street
If you have noticed they make you have a overflow
bottle on the radiator but thats it... wonder why...
because thats what ends up on the track THE MOST
Posted By: slippery440

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/09/12 04:47 PM

Here is the deal. If you want to race on a drag strip and respect the other drivers and don't want to cause a crash. You will make sure to your best ability to see that your car is not leaking fuilds of any kind.Then once at the track if for some reason a leak starts somewhere on your car you either fix it or go home.If you have a RACE only car you only have WATER in it. The rest is up to the track officials at tech and starter to look close to catch leaks BEFORE you go down the track.If I ever found out that anyone knew they had a leak and ignored it and I crash because of that. Well there would be a world of hurt on that person.
Posted By: sc4400

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/09/12 05:14 PM

"Been racing since 1978 you should be smart enough not to do it and if you already KNEW you would get a self righteous post you should be prepaired to get crap. You dump anitfreeze on the track and you are in the points race or a shootout up here in New York you will be sent home. This is in time trials or T&T. You have a roaster that WILL RUN 8.20s well good luck with that when one of your buddies that think like you drop antifreeze in front of you and the track guys don't see it.People like you have no respect for your fellow racers."


IN YOUR HUMBLE OPINION....right?

Personally, I am anal about leaks. I expect everyone else is too? No?

I don't do water because aluminum corrodes and that doesn't work for me.

To say I have no respect for other racers is just plain foolish and arrogant on your part. But hey, we are all entitled to our opinions.

I so love the internet!

RIP
Posted By: RADAMX

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/09/12 06:35 PM

I have to agree with the dark side .
I run antifreeze because That is what is supposed to be there .
that being said I also have my overflow set in the center just in case .
If my car leaks anything there is a reason and I am going home .
I have seen people stuff rags under there cars just to get another pass . If you leak oil ,trans fluid or water you should not be on the track . Fix the problem not the results .
I have seen Blocks, trans and rear ends split in half .
Sh!t happens and when it does it needs to be delt with.
Antifreeze is just like oil and it sucks when it hits the track .
We as racers need to do our best to keep the track clean.
And yes I do go down the track with an 8 second car .
Posted By: 70Cuda383

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/09/12 06:50 PM

Quote:

Here is the deal. If you want to race on a drag strip and respect the other drivers and don't want to cause a crash. You will make sure to your best ability to see that your car is not leaking fuilds of any kind.Then once at the track if for some reason a leak starts somewhere on your car you either fix it or go home.If you have a RACE only car you only have WATER in it. The rest is up to the track officials at tech and starter to look close to catch leaks BEFORE you go down the track.If I ever found out that anyone knew they had a leak and ignored it and I crash because of that. Well there would be a world of hurt on that person.





EXACTLY!! If you're going to run at the track, remember that the world does not revolve around you. That means not expecting all the other racers to do things YOUR way, and also to be respectful of the other cars and not run if you have a leak. Seems simple enough to me?

Things break, sh-poop happens. A guy who accidentally leaks antifreeze on the track is no different than the guy who tosses a rod and oils down the track. If you cannot accept the risk of something slippery being on the track and not having perfect track conditions, then stop racing, because the world ain't fair, and never will be fair.

Next time at the track, if you see "some punk kid in a Honda" running his AC as he pulls up to the line, remember, he's probably inexperienced in proper track "protocol" and you KNOW he has no idea what real torque or horsepower is, so instead of jumping up his butt for dripping water out of his AC drip vent... Try just giving him a heads up. Teach him. How do you expect your sport to survive if you treat others who participate, with a hostile and negative attitude? Or, is it really just all about you and what's good for you?
Posted By: dogdays

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/09/12 06:52 PM

Ethylene glycol is slipperier and evaporates more slowly than water.

I watched a friend's car turn left and barrel roll through the lights , I think he still turned 8.92 or something like that. It was the first run after a shower and even though the track dryer had worked for like a half hour there was still enough moisture to lose traction on one side. Thank God his rollcage was stout, we all thought he was dead. He walked away. It took a year to rebuild the car.

So while I started reading this post thinking pro-antifreeze, I have changed my mind and would come down on the water side. It was way too scary to watch the ambulance race down the track and wait for word. My teenage daughter was in shock...her first words were, "Is he dead?"

Racing is expensive and requires time any way you slice it. A little more time can prevent an accident and it could be you in the rolling car.

No self-righteous attitude here, just a really vivid memory.

R.
Posted By: dartman366

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/09/12 07:47 PM

Quote:

You guys that think its ok to run antifreeze please stay home and garage race over the internet.If any of you guys ever had a car that had enough power to spin the wheels you would understand the guy in the 8 second car behind you would probly nut you if you spilled antifreeze in his lane. Then the track crew would be next in line and then every racer that has to wait half hour or more to clean up after your junk. Reson water over antifreeze is water will evaporate on a hot track. Leak a mist of antifreeze its not easy to see but it will be like a ice covered road.


here's another vote for no antifreeze,water wetter and distilled water is all I run.
Posted By: rickstershemi

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/10/12 12:32 AM

Prestone is the official antifreeze/coolant of NHRA.....go figure

Rickster
Posted By: slippery440

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/10/12 01:27 AM

SC4400 A couple of questions. You have a aluminum block what rust? Do you have a diaper for the motor? Do you have a scatersheild? Do you have a driveshaft hoop? Hope you have all of those. So the only thing left is the radiator and hoses. So what you are saying is that you use antifreeze and so what if it leaks on the track RIGHT? The next guy in line with the dragster is SOL. Me foolish and arrogant? I don't think so
Posted By: sc4400

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/10/12 04:15 AM

Quote:

SC4400 A couple of questions. You have a aluminum block what rust? Do you have a diaper for the motor? Do you have a scatersheild? Do you have a driveshaft hoop? Hope you have all of those. So the only thing left is the radiator and hoses. So what you are saying is that you use antifreeze and so what if it leaks on the track RIGHT? The next guy in line with the dragster is SOL. Me foolish and arrogant? I don't think so




OK, I'll play.

Read the post again. Didn't say rust, said "corrode" Not the same thing.

What is a "scatershield"? I do know that "scatter shield" would be found with a clutch. I run a torque convertor, and a ring gear shield. Also have a drive shaft "Loop", no hoops.

And for the real point,how do you possibly think that I would not care if I had a leak? That is irrational, as the most likely person affected by a leak would be me. At 170+, that might be unpleasant. I take meticulous care of my equipment. That is all anyone can do.

Life is a risk.

The only thing I really don't care about is what unpleasant people like you think. You've stated your opinion. If you feel so strongly, perhaps you might lobby for a rule change.

Good luck with that.

RIP

Posted By: Crizila

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/10/12 04:50 AM

IMO, If you own and drive a race car, you should be running water. I run water, water wetter, and waterpump lube. High on my list is respecting my fellow racer and that includes his safety - as well as mine. I don't even want to think about being the cause of someone elses accident because I knowingly drove a car that had a leak. At last years MATS during the second round of Pro I was lining up against another car and I thought I saw fluid dripping under his car. As I nudged in to the first stage light I wondered if I would get a by. Starter was on the ball and I did. Felt sorry for the guy behind him.
Posted By: TooMany62s

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/10/12 12:29 PM

People who think it's OK to ignore safety rules they don't like shouldn't be racing.
Posted By: kissmyaspen

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/10/12 12:42 PM

This is funny... So what the difference between antifreeze and synthetic oil?? And I bet 75% of the people that are commenting on this only race maybe 5 times a year..
Posted By: Rapid588

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/10/12 04:08 PM

Here are a couple of pics of my friends race car that he had been racing at the same track since it was almost new (at MOROSO....now PBIR).

He said he was on a normal 10 second run when he totally had no control whatsoever when he unknowingly hit a light patch of antifreeze.

I did not see the wreck, but i did see the aftermath.... people that saw it said he cleared the 40 ft high scoreboards.

The guy in the 11 second car that ran right before him in that lane was observed looking for a coolant leak and wiping antifreeze off his windsheild right after his run.

It was later confirmed he was running antifreeze even though
he knew it was the tracks WRITTEN policy for non street cars to not run antifreeze.
Some people think they are above the rules or don't care about the safety of others .... almost cost my friend his life!!!

Posted By: 23T Hemmee

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/10/12 05:01 PM

Quote:

This is funny... So what the difference between antifreeze and synthetic oil?? And I bet 75% of the people that are commenting on this only race maybe 5 times a year..


The difference is you eliminate as many safety hazards as possible, since you can't eliminate oil, you eliminate what you can, antifreeze being an obvious choice. And yeah, I race 5-6 times a year.....so what?
Posted By: slippery440

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/10/12 09:12 PM

Quote:

Here are a couple of pics of my friends race car that he had been racing at the same track since it was almost new (at MOROSO....now PBIR).

He said he was on a normal 10 second run when he totally had no control whatsoever when he unknowingly hit a light patch of antifreeze.

I did not see the wreck, but i did see the aftermath.... people that saw it said he cleared the 40 ft high scoreboards.

The guy in the 11 second car that ran right before him in that lane was observed looking for a coolant leak and wiping antifreeze off his windsheild right after his run.

It was later confirmed he was running antifreeze even though
he knew it was the tracks WRITTEN policy for non street cars to not run antifreeze.
Some people think they are above the rules or don't care about the safety of others .... almost cost my friend his life!!!






THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!! This is what I have been trying to get at. Mabe with a picture for a mental image some of these pro antifreeze guys will wake up. WATER IS BAD-- ANIFREEZE IS DEADLY
Posted By: maximum entropy

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/10/12 10:27 PM

Quote:

Here are a couple of pics of my friends race car that he had been racing at the same track since it was almost new (at MOROSO....now PBIR).

He said he was on a normal 10 second run when he totally had no control whatsoever when he unknowingly hit a light patch of antifreeze.

I did not see the wreck, but i did see the aftermath.... people that saw it said he cleared the 40 ft high scoreboards.

The guy in the 11 second car that ran right before him in that lane was observed looking for a coolant leak and wiping antifreeze off his windsheild right after his run.

It was later confirmed he was running antifreeze even though
he knew it was the tracks WRITTEN policy for non street cars to not run antifreeze.
Some people think they are above the rules or don't care about the safety of others .... almost cost my friend his life!!!





i think the same thing would have happened if it were water. look, i hear a lot of harping about respect- the g.d. car should not leak anything! any leak is a wreck waiting to happen. i see cars at the track with pieces falling off. take care of your [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean], gentlemen! sheesh.
Posted By: dvw

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/10/12 11:37 PM

Lets see if i have this correct. It's OK to run antifreeze in a street car that runs 10-13 seconds in pro. But if it's a racecar it should be water?
In our area it can drop below freezing at night during the race season.
Doug
Posted By: Tig

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/11/12 01:05 PM

I'm sorta on the fence with this one now. Since I run an all alloy motor, I run anti freeze for it's corrosion inhibiting properties but I'm sure it's a non ethyl glycol based type, that stuff hard to get over here. I'm not even sure if it hasn't been banned from sale.
All you guys running iron blocks and aluminium heads have a v8 battery, I'm not sure you'll be best off running de-ionised and/or de-gassed water? Don't use R-O water thats the worst thing you can do, I've worked on renal dialysis machines and that stuff eats steel and aluminium at an alarming rate. The purer the water the more corrosive it is.
HTH's
Posted By: 70Cuda383

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/11/12 02:31 PM

Quote:


i think the same thing would have happened if it were water. look, i hear a lot of harping about respect- the g.d. car should not leak anything! any leak is a wreck waiting to happen. i see cars at the track with pieces falling off. take care of your [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean], gentlemen! sheesh.




That's what I was thinking too. First, I'm glad the guy in what looks like a blue camaro was alright. but, if the car in front of him leaked down the track, I don't know that it would matter if it was water, oil, ATF, Antifreeze, gear lube....the results probably would have been the same.

Racing is a risk, and again, if you cannot accept the risk that the track might not be perfect, and that the guy in front of you might have blown a transmission line unknowingly, half way through the run, then maybe it's time to make it a street car again.

Antifreeze doesn't cause crashes. ill maintained equipment causes crashes. negligent drivers cause crashes. and sometimes "flat out bad luck" causes crashes when a hose unexpectedly fails on an otherwise perfect ride.

if someone spills anything on the track and the driver does not know, and the track officials don't see it, nobody's going to know to clean it up, and at which point, it flat out does not matter what it was.
Posted By: 70Cuda383

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/11/12 02:36 PM

but, what do I know. I'm not a professional racer, so no, I'm not out there every weekend. I go when my schedule and budget allows me
Posted By: moparroad

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/11/12 02:49 PM

Have you watched an antifreeze cleanup? If it goes down the track, it takes an extended period of time. This is down time and expense! Antifreeze requires an absorbent, dragging and frequently re-prepping [respray costs about $100.00 at our track] if the antifreeze is heavy it sometimes requires burning or scraping! All because you want to play by YOUR rules rather than the track rules! If I come to your work or house can I play by MY rules? SELFISH! race weekly for almost 40 years! Points at 3 weekly tracks & IHRA tech inspector!
Posted By: 70Cuda383

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/11/12 02:59 PM

Quote:

Have you watched an antifreeze cleanup? If it goes down the track, it takes an extended period of time. This is down time and expense! Antifreeze requires an absorbent, dragging and frequently re-prepping [respray costs about $100.00 at our track] if the antifreeze is heavy it sometimes requires burning or scraping! All because you want to play by YOUR rules rather than the track rules! If I come to your work or house can I play by MY rules? SELFISH! race weekly for almost 40 years! Points at 3 weekly tracks & IHRA tech inspector!




I do play by my track rules. if they did not allow antifreeze, then I won't go there, or I'd drain and flush with water for the night.
Posted By: dusturbd340W5

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/11/12 04:15 PM

a lot of people still don't get it DOES your track have a street class on race night like every track down here does if so the antifreeze debate is mute point.
if there is 1 class running it then the threat is there period.
Posted By: sc4400

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/11/12 04:18 PM

Quote:

Quote:


i think the same thing would have happened if it were water. look, i hear a lot of harping about respect- the g.d. car should not leak anything! any leak is a wreck waiting to happen. i see cars at the track with pieces falling off. take care of your [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean], gentlemen! sheesh.




That's what I was thinking too. First, I'm glad the guy in what looks like a blue camaro was alright. but, if the car in front of him leaked down the track, I don't know that it would matter if it was water, oil, ATF, Antifreeze, gear lube....the results probably would have been the same.

Racing is a risk, and again, if you cannot accept the risk that the track might not be perfect, and that the guy in front of you might have blown a transmission line unknowingly, half way through the run, then maybe it's time to make it a street car again.

Antifreeze doesn't cause crashes. ill maintained equipment causes crashes. negligent drivers cause crashes. and sometimes "flat out bad luck" causes crashes when a hose unexpectedly fails on an otherwise perfect ride.

if someone spills anything on the track and the driver does not know, and the track officials don't see it, nobody's going to know to clean it up, and at which point, it flat out does not matter what it was.






This right here completely covers the whole question.

The crash of the '69 is truly an unfortunate deal. Using the implied logic, we should no longer have external oil lines, transmission cooler lines, remote oil reservoirs, the list goes on endlessly.

I've been to at least 25 different tracks. 50 NHRA national events, 100+ divisionals, and never once have I heard the first word about a "anti-freeze" rule. In all that time, I've caused 2 leak cleanups. A valve cover stud snapped off, and a mist of oil sprayed out. They only knew to even look because of the smoke from the oil on the headers. The other a cooler line blew apart on the starting line, and I liked to turned a complete 360.

Any leak is a bad leak. PERIOD. And racing has a level of risk. I believe 99% of us take this very seriously. Those of you militantly passionate about this issue, I respect that. But each of us that leaves the starting line has to responsibly maintain our ride, and trust that the other racers do to.

This isn't bean bag, or chess. If you don't trust the track, don't leave the starting line.


I'm done with this, because no one is going to change their mind.

Be safe.


RIP
Posted By: hemi-itis

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/11/12 05:05 PM

Street car or not,The rules ARE the rules.It really comes down to the tech guys that check our cars before we can race.I admit I have not always been able to pass tech,but they never checked.The tech guys will take you on your WORD when they ask,do you have a trans sheild,nuetral saftey swith,ANTIFREEZE ETC.Most of the time they just look at the tags on the belts & helmut.Some of the rules are stupid,but we still have to abide or try to get them changed and I refer more to certain certifications.
Posted By: Dap

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/11/12 05:25 PM

I run evans coolant in my car which is propylene glycol. I contacted e-town tech to see if I could run there with it in the car. In a response they said that they we're not familiar with it but as long as it does not clean up like anti freeze it should be ok. The stuff will evaporate pretty quick with no film.
Posted By: Frito

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/11/12 06:51 PM

Quote:

Watched a 64 aluminum dodge barrel roll down the track after the guy in front of him broke and dropped antifreeze on the track.

If i see one drop of antifreeze near the starting line everything stops and my brother shuts it down and i start walking the lane on the track


Terry Thurman

Attached picture 7065827-Savoy_Wreck_3.jpg
Posted By: Crizila

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/11/12 09:08 PM

Quote:

a lot of people still don't get it DOES your track have a street class on race night like every track down here does if so the antifreeze debate is mute point.
if there is 1 class running it then the threat is there period.


Trust me, most of us get it . As I stated, IMO ........ and that's why I don't run antifreeze - for the reasons I stated. What you or others run, is your business. Track condition problems will always be there. I just perfer not to contribute to them. Again, just my opinion - that's all. It ( and other reasons ) is why I am not much interested in running much faster than mid 10's. In the 60's, track conditions were poor all the time, but ET's and speeds were ( generally ) a better match compared to today. I just don't feel that track prep can keep up with the fast stuff on a consistant bassis - the cruxed of this thread.
Posted By: Dago Red

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/12/12 01:03 AM

Quote:

You guys that think its ok to run antifreeze please stay home and garage race over the internet.If any of you guys ever had a car that had enough power to spin the wheels you would understand the guy in the 8 second car behind you would probly nut you if you spilled antifreeze in his lane. Then the track crew would be next in line and then every racer that has to wait half hour or more to clean up after your junk. Reson water over antifreeze is water will evaporate on a hot track. Leak a mist of antifreeze its not easy to see but it will be like a ice covered road.




I take it you've never raced in Texas in August with just water in the system.

I was there and saw that NSS Dodge rolled. It was a lazy track crew that wrecked that car, along with the liquid.

Anti-freeze stinks for a reason.
Posted By: Dago Red

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/12/12 01:15 AM

Quote:

Quote:

When I responded to this subject, I knew it wouldn't be long before this type of "righteous" response was presented.

For the record, my 543 KB block/hat/440-1(cnc345) dragster will run easy 7.40's with 50/50 Prestone.

My 565 S/G roadster will run 8.20's with 50/50 Prestone. Every drag car I've been down the track in since 1978 has had anti-freeze. I'm not hard to spot at D4 events, so be sure to give me a bye run!

We return now to regular programming.


BTW, what are the odds you and I would register here on the same day??Go figure that.

RIP




Been racing since 1978 you should be smart enough not to do it and if you already KNEW you would get a self righteous post you should be prepaired to get crap. You dump anitfreeze on the track and you are in the points race or a shootout up here in New York you will be sent home. This is in time trials or T&T. You have a roaster that WILL RUN 8.20s well good luck with that when one of your buddies that think like you drop antifreeze in front of you and the track guys don't see it.People like you have no respect for your fellow racers.




Slippery, why don't you take your self rightious attitude and shove it. Racers here will discuss anything, but we don't want to be dictated to.
Posted By: dusturbd340W5

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/12/12 02:18 AM

Quote:

Quote:

a lot of people still don't get it DOES your track have a street class on race night like every track down here does if so the antifreeze debate is mute point.
if there is 1 class running it then the threat is there period.


Trust me, most of us get it . As I stated, IMO ........ and that's why I don't run antifreeze - for the reasons I stated. What you or others run, is your business. Track condition problems will always be there. I just perfer not to contribute to them. Again, just my opinion - that's all. It ( and other reasons ) is why I am not much interested in running much faster than mid 10's. In the 60's, track conditions were poor all the time, but ET's and speeds were ( generally ) a better match compared to today. I just don't feel that track prep can keep up with the fast stuff on a consistant bassis - the cruxed of this thread.




I didn't run antifreeze in my car either since it didn't need it but half the cars at the track where street cars so it didn't really matter one way or the other.
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/12/12 02:36 AM

Store bought antifreeze does not remove/transfer heat as well as water.

For less than $10 you can buy a bottle of rust inhibitor that will prevent corrosion as well as antifreeze.

For those racing in a climate that does not go from non freezing race day temps to 25-20 degree F overnight (examples please), the resistance to freezing is unnecessary. If you have any solution of rust inhibitor, straight water's freezing point depression gets lower than 32 deg. F. It lowers the temp for the water mixture to form ice crystals.

Coolant is really hard to get off a track. In an oil or water spill, our track crew brushes down lots of kitty litter, goes over it, and has the racers go over it before we can resume racing.
Posted By: jamesc

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/12/12 03:04 AM

imho this is one of those situations that has good and valid arguments on both sides. yes antifreeze is slippery there's no getting around that. i don't personally know just how effective additives are for preventing rust and corrosion but i understand and fully agree i don't want 10k worth of block and heads rotting away, corrosion in aluminum can be terrible under certain conditions. i wonder about the use of a sacrificial anode in these cooling systems and if that can stem the corrosion problem.

at a national or sportsman event where you're dealing solely with race cars i can see the no antifreeze being enforced but at a race where you have street cars running down the track i just don't see the point of people saying you shouldn't have antifreeze in the car.

for myself i run tap water but would prefer something that protects the investment in expensive parts.

i can really see this one both ways unless there is a suitable replacement to prevent the rust and corrosion.
Posted By: rickraw

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/12/12 03:36 AM

after reading all the post, the only way to eliminate antifreeze would be upto the track owners. don't know what the percentage of turn aways would be, but they would be losing cash. i myself use antifreeze, street ride. i go out 3-4 times a year, switching it out is a pain. member dap stated he uses evans coolant, going to call them & see if it's easier to clean up. like other members on here, i have some serious coin invested & don't want to cause someone else or myself any problems. we are all taking a risk driving over 130, i see the anti antifreeze posters point. everyone stay safe, seeya.
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/12/12 03:52 AM

Quote:

imho this is one of those situations that has good and valid arguments on both sides. yes antifreeze is slippery there's no getting around that. i don't personally know just how effective additives are for preventing rust and corrosion but i understand and fully agree i don't want 10k worth of block and heads rotting away, corrosion in aluminum can be terrible under certain conditions. i wonder about the use of a sacrificial anode in these cooling systems and if that can stem the corrosion problem.

at a national or sportsman event where you're dealing solely with race cars i can see the no antifreeze being enforced but at a race where you have street cars running down the track i just don't see the point of people saying you shouldn't have antifreeze in the car.

for myself i run tap water but would prefer something that protects the investment in expensive parts.

i can really see this one both ways unless there is a suitable replacement to prevent the rust and corrosion.




We run additive with distilled water in our race car for a season. No rust or corrosion with the brand of additive we use. Our motors have aluminum heads, radiators, etc (crate ZZ4's). The track approved engine rebuilder says our motors look great inside.

The basic concept is not new. It was very common years ago to run "water pump lubricant anti rust". But todays cooling additives have to do a little more than the old days.

Antifreeze is not 100% ethylene glycol. There are additives mixed with it for corrosion resistance, especially aluminum corrosion. Sometimes these are termed Supplemental Coolant Additives (SCA's). Ethylene glycol acually doesn't go bad, it's the additive package that gets depleated over time and surface area.

So you just want to run a cooling system additive(s) that has wetting agent/surfactant, corrosion resistance, lubrication, and electrolysis resistance.

For more of a street car application with heater core and modern electronics, some companies suggest a second bottle that adds helps with electrolysis and lubrication. Look for something with metal deviators (false metals) that conduct electricity to act as a ground strap between the dissimilar materials in a cooling system.


Here's a very thorough test of cooling additives. Look at the performance of additives with water only:

http://www.turbomagazine.com/features/0703_turp_cooling_system_additives/viewall.html

Attached picture 7066723-TurboMagazineCoolingResults.jpg
Posted By: rickraw

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/12/12 04:22 AM

good info
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/12/12 03:43 PM

Quote:

imho this is one of those situations that has good and valid arguments on both sides. yes antifreeze is slippery there's no getting around that. i don't personally know just how effective additives are for preventing rust and corrosion but i understand and fully agree i don't want 10k worth of block and heads rotting away, corrosion in aluminum can be terrible under certain conditions. i wonder about the use of a sacrificial anode in these cooling systems and if that can stem the corrosion problem.

at a national or sportsman event where you're dealing solely with race cars i can see the no antifreeze being enforced but at a race where you have street cars running down the track i just don't see the point of people saying you shouldn't have antifreeze in the car.

for myself i run tap water but would prefer something that protects the investment in expensive parts.

i can really see this one both ways unless there is a suitable replacement to prevent the rust and corrosion.




James... in our test equipment that required corrosion
protection we ran water soluble oil... this was in
very expensive equipment(1/2 a million or more)...
worked very well

Posted By: slippery440

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/12/12 03:48 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

When I responded to this subject, I knew it wouldn't be long before this type of "righteous" response was presented.

For the record, my 543 KB block/hat/440-1(cnc345) dragster will run easy 7.40's with 50/50 Prestone.

My 565 S/G roadster will run 8.20's with 50/50 Prestone. Every drag car I've been down the track in since 1978 has had anti-freeze. I'm not hard to spot at D4 events, so be sure to give me a bye run!

We return now to regular programming.


BTW, what are the odds you and I would register here on the same day??Go figure that.

RIP




Been racing since 1978 you should be smart enough not to do it and if you already KNEW you would get a self righteous post you should be prepaired to get crap. You dump anitfreeze on the track and you are in the points race or a shootout up here in New York you will be sent home. This is in time trials or T&T. You have a roaster that WILL RUN 8.20s well good luck with that when one of your buddies that think like you drop antifreeze in front of you and the track guys don't see it.People like you have no respect for your fellow racers.




Slippery, why don't you take your self rightious attitude and shove it. Racers here will discuss anything, but we don't want to be dictated to.




WOW WHO PEED IN YOUR WHEATIES. Self rightious no. Been in semi round and a all out race car with a moron that though it was ok to run antifreeze droped the entire load of antifreeze on the starting line and I was in his lane. NOW THIS WAS SUMMER AND 80 DEGREES. Track crew tried their best to clean up the mess for 20 minutes. They put down resin and draged it. End of story I blew the tires off and the next guy in the same lane did the same. The track guys reworked that lane for the finals and the guy in that lane spun and lost.He actually took and dialed down a bunch. I went from a chance to win 800 or 450 RU to wining $50. I raised heck along with the other two drivers and that was a waste of time. Now if you drop antifreeze on the track you are gone. So glad you race in texas and not here. Keep those steers happy.
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: nhra and antifreeze - 02/12/12 10:15 PM

Quote:

Quote:

imho this is one of those situations that has good and valid arguments on both sides. yes antifreeze is slippery there's no getting around that. i don't personally know just how effective additives are for preventing rust and corrosion but i understand and fully agree i don't want 10k worth of block and heads rotting away, corrosion in aluminum can be terrible under certain conditions. i wonder about the use of a sacrificial anode in these cooling systems and if that can stem the corrosion problem.

at a national or sportsman event where you're dealing solely with race cars i can see the no antifreeze being enforced but at a race where you have street cars running down the track i just don't see the point of people saying you shouldn't have antifreeze in the car.

for myself i run tap water but would prefer something that protects the investment in expensive parts.

i can really see this one both ways unless there is a suitable replacement to prevent the rust and corrosion.




James... in our test equipment that required corrosion
protection we ran water soluble oil... this was in
very expensive equipment(1/2 a million or more)...
worked very well






Justice Brothers Radiator Cool RC/22P and Cooling System Protector CSP/1P both have water soluble oil as one of thier ingredients.

http://www.justicebrothers.com/pages/products/news_new_products.htm

Run it in my Barracuda for years, clean as a whistle inside and no electrolysis. Those are the products we use in our race car, I use in my Barracuda, and I also sell for living.

Ron Davis says .3 volt or 300mv is maximum for electrolysis. http://www.awrracing.com/media/electrolysis.pdf

Here is my Barracuda with one bottle each of Justice Brothers Radiator Cool and Cooling System Protector at 76mV or 0.07 volts

Attached picture 7068087-PICT4996.JPG
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