Race gas versus e-85

Posted By: racerx

Race gas versus e-85 - 01/20/12 12:42 AM

i'v made the switch

any one have any real world back to back testing on the switch to e-85 with there 60'times i've made the switch last here and was unable to get any real world testing do to jetting issues/not being able to get any true e-85(due to the season change of there fuel)so i know that e-85 increase torque so I'm wondering if there r anyone has some 60' time they have accomplished...........Thax

Posted By: 1967dartgt

Re: Race gas versus e-85 - 01/20/12 02:21 AM

Mine slowed down due to lack of traction. Got that figured out and it was to late in season.

Posted By: 70Cuda383

Re: Race gas versus e-85 - 01/20/12 02:49 AM

any forcasts on the future of E85? the subsidies ended, right? does that mean it's going away? or is the price of it going to skyrocket now?

how can they expect to keep it on the market when it's going to cost the same or more than regular gas, but gets lower mileage on the daily drivers it was originally intended for?

Posted By: 1967dartgt

Re: Race gas versus e-85 - 01/20/12 02:58 AM

I heard that there is 1200 new pumps going in over the whole country. I hope it doesn't go anywhere.

Posted By: 69dart

Re: Race gas versus e-85 - 01/20/12 03:02 AM

They are still adding new pumps here in Ohio so I hope its here to stay.

The price has stayed at $2.89 since November.

Posted By: MMiller

Re: Race gas versus e-85 - 01/20/12 04:36 AM

The ethanol industry is making a profit, and are not having problems without the subsides. Now if the US government would quit susidising foreign oil, then we'd be set.

I'm not worried about the lack of government help shutting down ethanol. I'm more worried about the bad info the tree huggers, and big oil are pouring into the general public, about ethanol, food prices, and feeding the world.

Michael

Posted By: THE GLASS MAN

Re: Race gas versus e-85 - 01/20/12 04:37 AM

Quote:

They are still adding new pumps here in Ohio so I hope its here to stay.

The price has stayed at $2.89 since November.

Are you allowed to run E85 in Nostalgia super stock?

Posted By: fourgearsavoy

Re: Race gas versus e-85 - 01/20/12 04:59 AM

Quote:

Quote:

They are still adding new pumps here in Ohio so I hope its here to stay.

The price has stayed at $2.89 since November.

Are you allowed to run E85 in Nostalgia super stock?

I would think it is still considered "pump gas" and not alcohol

Gus

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Race gas versus e-85 - 01/20/12 05:43 AM

When I changed over to e-85... my car ran exactly
the same times.... within a few thousandths, same
60' at 1.20.... but all this for a lot LESS fuel cost...
I went from 112 octane to e-85 so the price difference
was pretty big... I've been VERY happy with it

Posted By: racerx

Re: Race gas versus e-85 - 01/20/12 09:00 AM

Quote:

When I changed over to e-85... my car ran exactly
the same times.... within a few thousandths, same
60' at 1.20.... but all this for a lot LESS fuel cost...
I went from 112 octane to e-85 so the price difference
was pretty big... I've been VERY happy with it

I was thinking that with the increase torque that e-85 produces that one would see a better 60'with every thing being equal

so then i must ask where do uall see the increase, is it through out the rpm range?

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Race gas versus e-85 - 01/20/12 02:19 PM

Quote:

Quote:

When I changed over to e-85... my car ran exactly
the same times.... within a few thousandths, same
60' at 1.20.... but all this for a lot LESS fuel cost...
I went from 112 octane to e-85 so the price difference
was pretty big... I've been VERY happy with it

I was thinking that with the increase torque that e-85 produces that one would see a better 60'with every thing being equal so then i must ask where do uall see the increase, is it through out the rpm range?

The only increase I seen was in consistency... I
was set up to run 10.0 and made 8 passes all within
.008 for a total spread... I did make a few passes
that were in the 8s and that could have been fuel
or the DA or both

Posted By: 440Jim

Re: Race gas versus e-85 - 01/20/12 08:36 PM

Quote:

any forcasts on the future of E85? the subsidies ended, right? does that mean it's going away? or is the price of it going to skyrocket now?

Let's be clear, the ethanol industry was not getting subsidies, the blenders were getting the credits and that was typically an oil company that blended 10% ethanol into their gasoline.

So I don't expect the price of ethanol to be significantly affected by the change in the tax law. That being said, ethanol's price moves with the price of gasoline due to market forces. So if gasoline goes up (oil prices, etc), then so will the pump price of ethanol. It would help ethanol prices at the pump if more infrastructure was in place for ethanol like it is for gasoline; specifically pipe lines (but the current US President is against building any pipelines...)

I would like to see the motor fuel tax eliminated for high percentage ethanol fuels (say 70% and higher) as well as other renewables/biofuels. Keep the tax where it is for petroleum based fuels (but I am against taxes in general).

Posted By: StillRock69

Re: Race gas versus e-85 - 01/22/12 12:10 AM

Are you allowed to run E85 in Nostalgia super stock?

Yes, in National Muscle Car Association and Nostalgia Super Stock National Association events

Posted By: RobX4406

Re: Race gas versus e-85 - 01/22/12 12:18 AM

Quote:

I heard that there is 1200 new pumps going in over the whole country. I hope it doesn't go anywhere.

Hope they put some in out here in the Coachella Valley. Closest e-85 is about 50 miles away. Kind of a deterrent.

With all the sand guys out here, seems like a possible market spot.

Posted By: StillRock69

Re: Race gas versus e-85 - 01/22/12 12:28 AM

Quote:

Are you allowed to run E85 in Nostalgia super stock?

Yes, in National Muscle Car Association and Nostalgia Super Stock National Association events

1.6 GASOLINE
GASOLINE: In the NSS classes, common and commercially available racing gasoline, pump gasoline and E85 are the exclusive (only) fuels or blend of fuels permitted. Under no circumstances can the maximum volume of alcohol exceed 85 percent.
1.8 ALCOHOL
ALCOHOL: Permitted in the FX classes.

Posted By: dartman366

Re: Race gas versus e-85 - 01/22/12 12:32 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I heard that there is 1200 new pumps going in over the whole country. I hope it doesn't go anywhere.

Hope they put some in out here in the Coachella Valley. Closest e-85 is about 50 miles away. Kind of a deterrent.

With all the sand guys out here, seems like a possible market spot.

been concidering the change myself, and one of the deciding factors is availability, no pumps here in MtVernon so I have to drive to Newark or Chesterville, little over an hour round trip north or south of here.

Posted By: robnbird

Re: Race gas versus e-85 - 01/22/12 12:42 AM

just practice

Posted By: 69dart

Re: Race gas versus e-85 - 01/22/12 03:06 AM

You can pick up a left over 55 gallon drum at the track and a hand pump for $15. I filled my drum up when prices bottomed out in October. It wasn't quite E85 (tested 78) but I've heard you can add a couple gallons of Methanol to get it back to E85. Has anyone tried this?

Posted By: Dabee

Re: Race gas versus e-85 - 01/22/12 06:09 PM

Quote:

You can pick up a left over 55 gallon drum at the track and a hand pump for $15. I filled my drum up when prices bottomed out in October. It wasn't quite E85 (tested 78) but I've heard you can add a couple gallons of Methanol to get it back to E85. Has anyone tried this?

I do it all the time. All they sell here is E-70, so I add Meth to bring it up to EM-85. Works great. I tune my AFR to .85 LAMBDA under power. I check it as soon as I'm in high gear going down the track or just before crosseing the strip.

Posted By: racerx

Re: Race gas versus e-85 - 01/22/12 10:12 PM

Quote:

Quote:

You can pick up a left over 55 gallon drum at the track and a hand pump for $15. I filled my drum up when prices bottomed out in October. It wasn't quite E85 (tested 78) but I've heard you can add a couple gallons of Methanol to get it back to E85. Has anyone tried this?

I do it all the time. All they sell here is E-70, so I add Meth to bring it up to EM-85. Works great. I tune my AFR to .85 LAMBDA under power. I check it as soon as I'm in high gear going down the track or just before crosseing the strip.

So is that how u come up with em-85?Is this stuff u call meth Alcohol...Thax

Posted By: 69dart

Re: Race gas versus e-85 - 01/22/12 10:53 PM

How many gallons of Methanol does it take to get 50 gallons of E75 up to E85?

Is there a formula somewhere?

Posted By: RobX4406

Re: Race gas versus e-85 - 01/22/12 11:25 PM

Quote:

How many gallons of Methanol does it take to get 50 gallons of E75 up to E85?

Is there a formula somewhere?

33 1/3 gallons to get it to E85

50 gallons of e75 has 12.5 gallons of gasoline. Take 12.5 and divide by .15 (15%) to get the total number of gallons to represent E85 83.33 gallons, subtract 50 you started with = 33.33 gallons of E100 required.

Posted By: Dabee

Re: Race gas versus e-85 - 01/23/12 12:36 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

You can pick up a left over 55 gallon drum at the track and a hand pump for $15. I filled my drum up when prices bottomed out in October. It wasn't quite E85 (tested 78) but I've heard you can add a couple gallons of Methanol to get it back to E85. Has anyone tried this?

I do it all the time. All they sell here is E-70, so I add Meth to bring it up to EM-85. Works great. I tune my AFR to .85 LAMBDA under power. I check it as soon as I'm in high gear going down the track or just before crosseing the strip.

So is that how u come up with em-85?Is this stuff u call meth Alcohol...Thax

Yes the stuff I call meth is racing methanol. I mix 1 gallon of methanol to 1 gallon of E-70. It tests out to 85% alcohol, 15% gas. I ran it all last season with no problems. I use a QF 950 carb set up for E-85.

Posted By: racerx

Re: Race gas versus e-85 - 01/23/12 01:44 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

You can pick up a left over 55 gallon drum at the track and a hand pump for $15. I filled my drum up when prices bottomed out in October. It wasn't quite E85 (tested 78) but I've heard you can add a couple gallons of Methanol to get it back to E85. Has anyone tried this?

I do it all the time. All they sell here is E-70, so I add Meth to bring it up to EM-85. Works great. I tune my AFR to .85 LAMBDA under power. I check it as soon as I'm in high gear going down the track or just before crosseing the strip.

So is that how u come up with em-85?Is this stuff u call meth Alcohol...Thax

Yes the stuff I call meth is racing methanol. I mix 1 gallon of methanol to 1 gallon of E-70. It tests out to 85% alcohol, 15% gas. I ran it all last season with no problems. I use a QF 950 carb set up for E-85.

Thax.

Posted By: FlyFish

Re: Race gas versus e-85 - 01/23/12 01:55 PM

Quote:

Quote:

How many gallons of Methanol does it take to get 50 gallons of E75 up to E85?

Is there a formula somewhere?

33 1/3 gallons to get it to E85

50 gallons of e75 has 12.5 gallons of gasoline. Take 12.5 and divide by .15 (15%) to get the total number of gallons to represent E85 83.33 gallons, subtract 50 you started with = 33.33 gallons of E100 required.

Robx4406 has it right, here is the formula if you are interested:

C1V1=C2V2

C1= initial concentration
V1= initial volume
C2= final concentration
V2= final volume

(25% gas)(50 gallons) = (15% gas)(V2)
This give a final volume of 83.3 gallons, which subtracted from the original volume of 50 = 33.3 gallons of ethanol (EtOH) needed reach the desired concentration.

Posted By: racerx

Re: Race gas versus e-85 - 01/26/12 04:46 PM

Quote:

Mine slowed down due to lack of traction. Got that figured out and it was to late in season.

Thax. 4 the reply i wood like to some real world result on your 60' times.Reason i'm asking is that i made the switch and going to a smaller tire and I'm interested on how much more torque this fuel makes over gas Thax...........

Posted By: 440Jim

Re: Race gas versus e-85 - 01/26/12 06:52 PM

Quote:

You can pick up a left over 55 gallon drum at the track and a hand pump for $15. I filled my drum up when prices bottomed out in October. It wasn't quite E85 (tested 78) but I've heard you can add a couple gallons of Methanol to get it back to E85. Has anyone tried this?

Just remember, a mix of methanol, ethanol, and gasoline will have a different stoichiometric ratio than real E85 (85% ethanol and 15% gasoline). This means the optimum air/fuel mixture is different for the two blends.

Stoichiometric ratio:
Gasoline 14.7
Methanol 6.4
Ethanol 9.0

E85 9.76
Mixing in methanol to bring the total alcohols up to 85% will have a lower A/F mixture then 9.76 (ie need more fuel volume)

Posted By: Dabee

Re: Race gas versus e-85 - 01/26/12 07:49 PM

Exactly why I set my O2 gauge to read the LAMBDA scale. I tune for between .82 and .86 LAMBDA in high gear going down the track. That is where my junk gets the best times.

Posted By: 440Jim

Re: Race gas versus e-85 - 01/27/12 01:42 AM

Quote:

I mix 1 gallon of methanol to 1 gallon of E-70. It tests out to 85% alcohol, 15% gas.

As long as you tuned your combo for the mix, it is not an issue. But if you put 85% ethanol into the car, you would need to lean out the carb 10-15% (since it was tuned for the methanol mix).

Posted By: Dabee

Re: Race gas versus e-85 - 01/27/12 04:35 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I mix 1 gallon of methanol to 1 gallon of E-70. It tests out to 85% alcohol, 15% gas.

As long as you tuned your combo for the mix, it is not an issue. But if you put 85% ethanol into the car, you would need to lean out the carb 10-15% (since it was tuned for the methanol mix).

Jim, Yes it is tuned for the mix.

Posted By: FlyFish

Re: Race gas versus e-85 - 01/27/12 01:28 PM

Woops! I mixed up my alcohols on my previous post (which is now fixed)...I meant Ethanol, not Methanol.....I hate it when I forget a carbon!