440/727 towing combination

Since my boy is now a racer, we need another tow rig. Going to convert my '86 D-150 (318/Auto) over to big block power to do the job. This truck will be hooked onto an open 18' steel/wood deck trailer towing a B-body 80 miles (roundtrip) to the track maybe 8-10 times a year; plus occasional trips to the local tavern with my bride.

I snagged up an '81 Dodge RV with 61,xxx miles on the odometer. 440/long-tail 727. Just doing some really basic stuff to the 440 (reseal, headers, Performer RPM intake, 600 Edelbrock, maybe a cam for towing if anyone has any ideas) as well as converting it to an 8 3/4 with 3.55's. Of course, I'll add a large auxiliary cooler to the trans (and maybe the engine oil too?).

My questions really center around the transmission.

Research tells me RV-spec tranny's should have some good stuff already (4 pinion planetary's, extra clutch, etc.).

Any recommendations on internal upgrades or just clean/freshen/replace what's already in there?

How about a shift kit?

The converter that is currently in the transmission has a large ring gear but also has a sticker on it that says "low-stall".

I suspect they used these to get these giant bread-box lumbering barges moving?

So, maybe the converter is perfect for the application?

Any other thoughts/concerns I'm not seeing?

The transmission does have heavy duty internals.while apart I would put a transtar rv converter in it.

I have a 74 Ramcharger that's a factory 440 truck and in the last few years I've driven it over 800 miles. It's fun, loud, all stock except for suspension with 3.54 gearing in the D60/D70 axles with 33" tires. I'm averaging 6.8mpg. If I was to build an older dodge truck to tow with, I'd use a 360 magnum block and make it a 408 stroker.

i would recommend a TF-2 shift kit.

That or at least raise fluid pressure cheap tighten up shifts

Those 33" tires are what is killing your mpg. It takes a lot of throttle to get them rolling. Then, has your speedo been calibrated to the big tires?

So is a 408 stroker motor any more fuel efficient then a 440 with a good towing cam?

I've pulled a car trailer with a factory 440, and I've pulled that same trailer with a 360 in a truck, the 360 did OK, but didn't hold a candle to the 440 truck, and both got the same gas mileage pulling that trailer (about 9mpg).

I've never had a 408 Stroker, so I have no comparison between it and a 440.

All good stuff fellas - keep it coming

Think I should call Comp for a cam recommendation or will that be waste of time?

If towing no .u got the best cam possible for that.

Deep trans pan. Coated headers to control heat.

I’d run a larger vacuum carb. A 600 is smaller than a lo po 440 had. A tq would be good and is what factory 440 trucks had for years. I’d want as much power as I could get when towing. Guys can do what they want, argue this all they want, but a bigger carb doesn’t kill low end like is claimed. The secondary’s will come in as needed. That’s been my experience running a big carb after a small one and the seeing the results.

I'd consider swapping to an 8 lug D60 rear and upgrade the front brakes to 8 lug as well. The 440 won't have trouble moving the trailer but the bigger brakes and stiffer tires will help control things better.

Sounds like a lot of work for something the 318 would handle….. this ole beater made a ton of treks from Aberdeen to TVD open trailer with race car 318/727

I agree. For that little use the most I would do is install some 3.91 gears. If the trailer is set up the way it should be with brakes on both axles it will stop just fine.

No farther than you are going you could spend some money on the 318 or swap in a 360, Unless hills are involved. A 408 Stroker would give you big block torque in a small block package provided the heads could move enough air.

A 360 magnum with hyd roller cam would likely do just fine for a lot less money.

I love my big blocks but don't look forward to that much work any longer.

Man I dig those Mirada wheels on that truck - after I swap mine to 4 1/2" BP I'll have to hunt down a set!

The reason for the swap is the ol' 318 is really tired and the trans is some kind of version of a 904 - just figured since I had all the parts the swap made sense.

Torque for that application is King, as well as keeping highway RPM in the meat of the torque curve, usually around 2600-2800 RPM.
MPG benefits when using as little throttle opening as possible while pulling.
While my 408 made very good TQ in a Duster, it didn't compare to an RB.
Thermoquads are great in that application, 2nd best a vac-secondary.
I'd use the existing MH converter. Shift kits are a good thing, as they reduce the shift overlap; doesn't need anything racy.

Since the OP already has the MH 440/727 and the 318 is tired, the path forward seems pretty obvious.
Make sure you can cool it, and add an ATF cooler. I like deep pans on everything.

Mike Jones has a grind specifically for the motorhome big block engines. It ain't cheap, but you get what you pay for. If I was to make one change other than what you have mentioned it would be the cam. The smallest lunati voodoo would be a distant second choice.

No more than you will be driving it though there is nothing wrong with keeping the oem cam if it is in good shape. Won't get quite the same power but it will be well above what the 318 was on its best day anyway.

Trans cooler and shift kit would be on my list as well. OEM low stall converter is good for this application. It will help keep the revs down and give a little better mileage since it is likely not a lock up converter.

ramp truck , close thread

LOL - You build me one 'Dad and I'll put Brownie in the weeds!

How do I find out about Mike Jones? Did a search and the commonality of his name about put Google into a tailspin...

http://jonescams.com/

I realize your not asking about intake manifolds but I saw Richard Holdener dynoing intake manifolds on a smogger 460 Ford truck engine. The OEM iron intake that has zero height to it made the best power way down low- what one would want in a tow vehicle. It made better low end power than the Edelbrock Performer. Was out of steam by like 4200RPM if I recall correctly. Sometimes its nice to be able to run what ya got and not spend any additional $$.

I do have a stock '70 intake I could put on I suppose; just figured aluminum would dissipate the heat better, maybe make for less vapor-lock issues?

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/356176793415749

As Ol' Yeller used to say...

"Ruff"

Patina !

too bad its so rusty, was nice in its day

When I used to tow with this truck it had a 440/TF with an "Edelbrock Performer Package" that consisted of an intake, carb and cam (and related parts), along with a set of headers. The truck would effortlessly pull a 36' enclosed Gooseneck and pass anything but a gas station (4mpg avg). To solve that issue I Pulled it and slipped in a Cummins!
The TF was nothing special other than as mentioned a Shift kit and good converter. TF are a very robust transmission. Treat them well and you will get great service life from them.

I was assuming you didn't have an alternative aluminum dual plane. By all means- run the Performer. Idle to 5500 is perfect for a truck.

From my reading, it would appear as the original "440 Performer" was just an aluminum version of an iron intake and might be a better choice for maximum torque as well as lighter weight/cooler under the carb, though I've never had one.

What are everybody's thoughts on that? What should a guy pay for one if one pops up for sale? Is there another like it?

"From my reading, it would appear as the original "440 Performer" was just an aluminum version of an iron intake and might be a better choice for maximum torque as well as lighter weight/cooler under the carb, though I've never had one.

What are everybody's thoughts on that? What should a guy pay for one if one pops up for sale? Is there another like it?"

My opinion is to run a factory iron intake for towing. The lighter weight of the aluminum unit is null and void on a big truck. Heat dissipation improvement will be unnoticeable. But if one likes to tinker then by all means install one. Not everyone is on a shoe string budget and it is a hobby of tinkering. But I would focus my effort on a nice quiet true dual exhaust system. Not necessarily headers- but quality dual pipes of proper diameter and pleasant sounding mufflers.

On mine I got tired of Header leaks and fixing them so I switched to manifolds...Killed the performance...help seal the deal for the Cummins swap

OK fellas - my transmission guy has the 727 opened up and it was starting the slow burn it would appear. His concern (very valid, and I'm in agreement) is if I reuse the existing TC it's probably got quite bit of trash/clutch material in it. Existing TC does NOT have a drain plug like I've seen on others.

SO, is there a way to "clean" (flush?) the existing torque converter OR do I just look for a reman'd unit to stab in? I'm trying to pinch some pennies on this deal (as I've got like 17 other irons in the fire). I did have another member here offer me a new towing TC but it's just a little more $$$ than I have to spend right now...

Ideas?

any torque converters i have seen flushed had a drain plug in them.
now with that said, i don't have a clue about the converter flush machines of today that are out there in transmission repair shops.
as for drain plugs, in the past, i have added a 1/8"npt plug just by drilling and tapping the converter.
used heavy grease on the drill and tap, then stuck the shop vac hose over the hole and turned it on for a while.
i followed this up by standing the converter up so the drain was on the bottom, then filling an empty squeeze bottle with kerosene, and squeezing it into the converter snout, repeating until the kerosene ran clear.
followed this by filling converter with atf, "swishing" converter around and then draining atf, doing this a couple of times until the atf was the original consistency drained as it was when poured into the snout.
this method worked good, and i had no converter failures doing so.
however, this was way back in the mid 70's to mid 80's that i did this, so with re-man converters being [relatively] cheap these days, i would pop for a re-man.
just my personal life experience.
your mileage will vary.

The reman converters are cheap enough (at least they were a couple years ago) I wouldn't take the chance. At the cost of ATF +4,(and the old stuff isn't much better priced these days) a reman converter may be cheaper then a flush.

Mopar used to include drain plugs on most converters until the lockup version came out.
My 78 fury has its original converter, never been out since factory installed and it has one.
I remember reading in a FSM or maybe a service bulletin about it when they deleted drain plugs from converters

I would think to take it to anyone that does converters , ask for a freshen up . It would be cheaper than buying another converter . You already know how it works with your combo , if you want it adjusted more or less rpm you could have that done as well . Just thinking out loud here . Gary

Around here it's about 275.00 if not a bunch is wrong other that trash from trans issues.

I used a couple of converters from transtar
One behind a 440 and one behind a v10 no problems 10 plus years

Any data collected on a 460 is relevant, to a 460. It is not relevant to a 440, unless you can somehow make a 460 intake work on a 440.

I disagree. My point is that often an OEM iron intake is regarded as low perf and useless. A factory intake manifold does work well in CERTAIN applications. In the application of low RPM grunt towing - a factory 4BBL intake is actually very very good. I was pointing out to the original poster that if he only had the factory intake- then he's good to go. But he has a Performer which is idle to 5500 RPM and that's a great intake as well even the regular Performer offers no improvement in power of a factory mopar iron intake. The weight savings may be important to the owner or it may not.

Good news - found a reman locally for $250.

pictures to follow of the swap as I plan on starting that as soon as the trans is finished.

Thanks guys!