Big block swap

I get tempted to swap a 440 into my '79 W150, and am trying to have an idea of all the factors I'd have to deal with. One is engine mounts of course.

Anyone use these? Any feedback or recommendations? There's so much to deal with when going from small block to big block, so mounts will probably be the least of my worries. I guess bolting to transfer case will be a headache? Will my clearance up front be changed significantly, as in fan to radiator? Is there so much I should just drop the idea? The factory 360-4 runs real good, and I could just keep driving as is for awhile, but I get an itch....


https://www.ebay.com/itm/1972-1987-...K-ENGINE-SWAP-motor-mounts/360445258443?

Why not just stroke the 360?

Stroke that out to 408 and put a big grin on your face.

I took the easy way out and got with a guy that had parted out a bunch of big block trucks. One stop shop for oil pan, dip stick, motor mounts, exhaust manifolds, big block 4wd trans - everything ya need to put that cheap C-body donor engine in yer truck. I did spend some time tracking down the correct power steering brackets and water pump pulley. As for it fitting, I'll get back to ya but looks bolt in to me. When they disco'd the big block in 78, the didn't bother changing anything about else about the truck. The front cross member still has 2 sets of motor mounts holes - 1 small block, 1 big block.

Valve cover clearance is an issue. The factory installed the smaller diameter dual diaphragm booster (200 and up) when the RB was ordered. Some say the engine will fit around the larger diameter single diaphragm booster, but ya just can't take the valve covers off. The C-body ya jack the RB from will likely have the smaller diameter booster but haven't tried that transplant and they predate aluminum masters so it's gonna want a 4 bolt master. I recently scored a 2 bolt one from a roached plow truck, fingers crossed. If you put on any kind of taller than stock fancy valve covers, they'll interfere with the heater box but there's room to notch it.

Coming soon to an RC near me:

those are 2wd mounts. you need a 4x4 drivers one.

RWG thanks for info. I love the stock appearance of your 440, and I would have no intention of any other valve covers. I did wonder about the booster. I prefer a crate engine from trustworthy builder (CME?) over finding donor and having it built. I doubt I'll find cbody BB around here anyway. Doubt I'd find a C body around here, any engine.

Stroking the 360 would definitely power it up big. I have stroked 360 in my Diplomat AHB and it's a monster, but I'm kind of craving a BB Mopar. Never had one.

Ive got a big block i want to put in my 78 RC, have all the parts rounded up except the booster, or maybe hydro-boost it? And cant decide to use my truck manifolds or go with headers. Then i have thoughts of a late model hemi swap, but like your truck it has a 360 that runs nice, maybe i should leave it alone.

Lol, sound like me, except I don't have all the parts. I very seriously considered a gen III Hemi for quite awhile, but being a W150 and not D series no kit out there yet. So started thinking big block. Then I'll drive it again, and think how good it runs, and that maybe I should drive the heck out of it and wait for something to break. But if I had a really nailed down plan, I'd pull the trigger right now on the big block swap. The hemi swap has more unknowns.

I wonder if bouchillon has mounts for the hemi swap in a w series truck? Just checked their site and they do have the mounts.

Glad you asked!

https://www.bouchillonperformance.com/inc/sdetail/710/13295

oh yes they have a ton of truck stuff, one stop shopping going big block or gen III hemi

Hey Larry, just so you know, you can buy an adapter to bolt the big block to your small block trans, not cheap its like 800 bucks, but ive got more than that invested in my big block transmission so maybe not a bad idea

Boosters unavailable

https://www.bouchillonperformance.com/inc/sdetail/432

Thanks, that's good news!

Wow they have a ton of stuff for trucks....I didn't realize and I've done google searches. I see they have transfer case insulators too!

I got my transfer case mounts from rock auto

Different year, different model, so not sure how much this pertains to your swap, but way back when I dropped a 440 into a '76 Club Cab that was originally 360, I was told I HAD to swap the booster or the 440 wasn't gonna fit.

Well.......that wasn't 100% correct. The 440 just barely cleared the booster with stock valve covers, but it DID clear. Big issue was having to take the booster loose to get the valve cover off. As long as you're not running adjustable valvetrain, and get a good seal, you'll be lucky to have to take the covers off every 5 yrs, if that.

Are you planning suspension upgrades? Keep in mind the extra weight of the BB.

As I've mentioned a number of times over the years, I actually got better gas mileage with the 440 than the 360. A LOT more fun too.

On the 4x4 trucks, just put a 2" or 3" body lift in for the booster clearance, solves the problem and give a little more room for larger tires.

my buddy had a truck he bought with big block already swapped in with the bigger booster and it cleared also, then one day he went and replaced the rubber motor mounts, would not clear with new rubbers lol

id much rather correct booster than lift body myself

I would do the big block swap in a heart-beat since I have a 74 D100 factory 440 and a 77 4x4 Ramcharger with a factory 440, i'm also stuffing a 440 in a 1980 Mirada right now with about 6 more 440's laying around) and absolutely love the low rpm torque! On the exhaust I would steer away from using the factory pickup exhaust manifolds since they are very restrictive and they also tend to always burn out the middle of the valve cover gaskets and burn the paint on the valve covers since the manifolds tuck up so close to the valve covers. On both of my 440's I use the 78070 Headman shorty headers and they clear everything very well the only issue is you need to run the smaller nippendenso starter to clear the headers.

looks like thats listed for E or B body cars but hey if they work ill keep that in mind thanks

Here is the clearance with a 440 and the big booster

Here is all the BB stuff. E manifolds, oil pan and dipstick, mounts for 75-80 4wd. P/S pump setup.

Just another prime example of a reproduction company that does not what their product fits .This style of mount fits 72-4 2wd and 4wd and 75-up 2wd. Does not fit 75-up 4wd.

good information, good pictures

Over the last few years boosters have fallen in to the same black hole that heater cores fell in to.

Would like a pattern of those mount since I’m making mine. How close does a stock pan get to the crossmember? I’m thinking of using C-Body hp manifolds, I have the headers but I have the red express and the pipe can’t go back that far to hookup to the muffler and side pipes. I have a 5.7 too but what a can of worms that is.! Also a 380-360, too many options

Here is shot. Could use shorty headers

that looks like a really nice truck! Can you post some engine bay pictures for us please?

That is a lot of room for the pan, I’m thinking it’s back that far for the front axel. Non 4x4 a regular pan will work. Looking good on the truck, I’d be afraid to get it dirty

Your saying a car center sump might work? That I don't know.

It was a 77 Macho Power Wagon I built for a customer about 4 years ago. I swapped the 360 for a 70 440 with a 6-pack.

One more thought on the booster clearance, I did researching on this some time ago and read that you can move the booster over for more clearance, never heard of doing that. And not sure how thats done? My buddy that had the 440 that cleared the booster until he replaced rubber mounts and said it was a no go, tells me they were not original valve covers but looked like some sort factory cover. I wonder if the truck valve covers are truck specific?

Driver side valve cover is truck specific but as far as I know that's about Van applications, not booster clearance. Vans use a remote oil fill tube that runs from the front of the driver side valve cover up to somewhere near the radiator. Non van truck engines use the same valve cover but put a rubber plug in that hole.

The valve covers on the 440 I swapped in were the original C-body ones ('77 Gran Fury).

I can tell you from experience that a big block center sump car oil pan doesn't work well with a 4x4. I put a 70 400 into a 70s 1/2 ton that had a dis functioning 4x4 setup, but retained the front axle (a broke teenager that needed a truck, bought the 4x4 without a drive train and had a 400 & 727 sitting). After the install, I slid into a ditch in a snow storm, the front axle smashed the oil pan and bent the pickup tube. Gene

Maybe find a donor truck? If you can find a rusted out or beat up truck, you would have everything you need, and other extra parts as a bonus. They are out there, and although, prices of these trucks are a lot more than they used to be, it could cost you less in the long run. You can also sell the rest of the parts to recoupe some cash. Just a thought...

So it will fit on a two wheel drive? Just eyeballing I thought it would even if notching the frame. A hammer and dolly can fix a valve cover too. 440 with six-pac ac unleaded heads and regular gas here I come.

I think the ones in the macho above are too. No oil fill plug and the booster recess needed in the later Cs.

RWG i was going to ask if it was a 400 block used in the build, but i see where you specified 440, I read the low deck blocks clearance is better

Maybe find a donor truck?

That is what I did way back when. I found a '77 400 truck that had been wrecked. Never did understand what exactly happened. Truck still ran and drove surprisingly good despite the damage to the bumper and grill. The weird thing was on the side of the impact, the side of the block was broke off too. When I pulled the mount out, it still had a chunk of block attached to it. You could see the cylinder wall...... But it ran beautifully.

I stripped the truck of everything I needed and then some, and sold hat was left to a co-worker that made a trailer out of the back half . Probably the only time I came out ahead on parts.

Before I found this wrecked one for parts, I can't tell you how many 440 trucks I found with a 2bbl on it............. (they weren't 440's)

I went the donor truck route but didn't take the booster. I swapped out the booster and master for an older model reman on my '80.

Do those stock manifolds flow ok or get to hot?

Couple of things I prefer: I would prefer running some type of headers. I have hedman ultra flows right now on my 360 (obviously won't transfer over to big block. I don't want to lift the truck past stock for any clearance. Just not my preference in looks. I have 33's on it now and that's the biggest tire I would want also. I don't think I'll ever find a donor big block truck in this area, and I really like the idea of a crate engine. Already built, as I'm not able to build it myself. Possibly something with aluminum heads (I know costly but helps with weight reduction for adding a big block. Even just the aluminum intake will make up some). A donor truck would be great for all the peripheral parts, I get that, but finding, storing, and tearing apart is problem. I don't have the facilities for that either. I'm going to take a look in my city though, and if there's one right here, probably can't turn that down. I'll pay my buddy to store, etc.

If I stayed with small block, I'd even prefer sell the current factory 360-4 for a built 360/408. Less down time and choosing of parts, etc.

I have this guy 15 minutes from me, good feedback, that I could consider https://www.ebay.com/itm/MOPAR-440-...et-strip-540hp-ready-2-run/333610445321?

Also, Brevard Cylinder Head (Vic), which I know a lot of you are familiar with.

Thats fine now prepare for the other 10k to finish the job unless you can do it all your self.

I couldn't tell you for sure, the one I threw together was a 4x4 chassis.

The one real 440 2 wd truck I had had the truck oil pan on it, leaking dipstick tube and all. It been a long time ago, but I doubt you could have pulled that truck pan off the motor without raising the motor. I think the car pan's sump would be pretty close to the same place the 2wd cross member is. Gene

I thought they were ok, but, no one here likes stock manifolds.

Thanks, I’ll pull the front end off to get a good look on how it all fits. Then make up a set of shorty headers too.

No I can't do it all myself. I'm aware all the costs associated when doing a swap, and I know it gets heavy. I've done several crate engine/trans swaps. That's why I'm asking, and considering staying small block. I've swapped crate 360/727 into several 318/A999 cars and all kinds of unexpected come up, I know. Mounts, linkages, driveshaft length, brackets, and on and on.


Thanks.

Has anyone got a 100k miles out of a stroker small block? I have read about stokers with 40k miles needing a rering already. 100k plus reliability is why I am going with a big block.

I only have about 8k on mine, so I'll be interested in the responses on this. Never heard of issues like this on strokers.

Shorty pistons are gonna have a lot of rock in that short bore. The reason 3.58 was the most Chrysler could push it and live a long life.

Couple that with the increased side loading from the longer stroke.

A few years ago, I sold all of the big block hardware off of a 77 w-100 I picked up, when I talked to the guy a little while back, he still had the stuff. PM me for his number Jim.

None of those things are really an issue. The taller deck of the Mopar is still better than the chevy. I think the problem is the things run so well they get hammered on a lot. The blocks are not that great so things move around a bit especially at 7000 RPM and that is where the problems come in. If you were to build a lower RPM torque engine for a truck the reliability and longevity shouldn't be an issue.

Totally respectfully disagree.

I used factory parts, mine is a 72 413 with a complete rebuild , no exhaust manifolds #452 unleaded heads.

Just did some more measuring, gotta use the truck pan, or make one, no way around it.

Hello, make sure you use factory parts, or use a after market pan.

More pictures please of that engine bay b1Frank, it looks awesome! What headers are those?

Hi Larry I skimmed over some of the post but did not read them all.

BUT a truck rear sump pan is needed and a front sump or center sump will not fit the truck chassis.

I have everything needed for a swap into your 79 truck but I do not have a booster. myself with disc on the front & rear later I would do manual brake. the small booster is tight as well.

best headers are the hedman 79250, they fit 2x & 4x4 chassis.

you just need a good empty BB 727 case to swap your SB 727 guts into and xfer all bolts up in stock location

the high mount PS is the one needed the lower mounted ones from a car hit the frame. I don't like cutting it to fit them.

your wire harness will adapt easy enough.

if you have a truck or late model WP housing on the BB the 79 rad hooks up and should work fine. mine do.

if you really want to do it I have the NV4500 2x 5 speed you can convert to 4x4 and have a manual granny 5 speed 4x4 but that's a lot more cash than just swaping in the BB engine.

I only wish I had a running 4x4 to swap a 440 into right now. I would already be wrenching. as you know I have already had a 79 RC back in the day.

440/435/205 with a 6" skyjacker lift, 4.56gear D60 front & rear with lockers turning 17/40/15 ground hawgs. "the ol'goat" don't get me wron my 2 trucks a fun but not like a BB 4x4 kind of fun.

Interesting. Are you talking piston slap or is that a different term?

So much to deal with. I need a shop around the corner that has done a couple. Mike, I have a high mount PS pump. Really prefer to stay 727 auto. I do love manuals with that granny gear, but my left leg gets tired quick and I want to drive it a lot.

I read I'll need truck oil pan for sure.

I really don't want to lift the truck anymore than stock (it does have bigger tires), but I did buy the "add-a-leaf" as recommended on another thread to level front with rear (https://www.offroaddesign.com/1-zero-rate-add-a-leaf-kit-2-1-2-wide.html) so maybe that's enough for booster clearance. I want stock valve covers.

I'm taking notes. I'm vacillating between built small block and the cubes of a big block with all the necessary mods/swaps. As written before, I really think I would need to buy a crate engine. I'll have enough to deal with just with peripherals.

I think I may still have 1 or 2 truck oil pans laying around. Think I may have a high mount pump, also. now I'm curious, have to make a trip to farm and see what I do have. Jim EDIT I have 2 used pans, and 1 hi-mount P/S pump and bracket, if your still looking.

If you were to look at the stroker piston and a late model engine piston you would see it's not an issue. The stroker piston isn't really a short piston in comparison to engines built today. Let's do some math. The difference between a 4" stroke and a 3.58" stroke is .42". Half of that moves the pin up .21" . That is less than 1/4" . The only reason to shorten the skirt is for crankshaft counter weight clearance and maybe a little skirt to rod clearance. Again, not a big deal. I built a couple stroker small blocks and none of these were an issue. Shortening a skirt reduces piston weight and this is where most aftermarket and late model pistons save weight. If you were really worried about it you could use a 6" chevy rod then the pin height would only change .087" .

I would love to get this parts vehicle I'm looking at online but I don't think it has any linkages. I have some more questions to ask. I wish I had room at my house for parts vehicle.

I'll update on parts vehicle and mancini stuff.

What do you think is better? Spending $500-$1000 on a big block parts vehicle (no engine) for the mounts, booster, etc. or just buying from mancini and other suppliers? It seems like a parts truck will have better fitting stuff

So, it's a factory BB truck missing its engine? Is it a 4wd truck? How hacked/trashed is the rest of the truck?

As shown by moparmarks, with the right stock valve covers, a 440 will clear the booster, so this may not be a mandatory part.

Any linkage present?

A majority of the wiring is just a matter of extending a few wires.

I'd take a quick inventory at what that parts truck has on it and do a little comparison shopping.

You might be able to sell off/scrap what's left of the parts truck when you're done to offset costs.

If you're buying it JUST for booster and mounts, go aftermarket.

John no engine. I'm waiting to hear back if the linkages are there. He said he would go out and look after rain stopped.

OK. You mention 'linkages', if you're retaining the same style transmission, the main thing that is different is the kickdown and throttle cable bracket. On my truck, the kickdown from the car was a one piece rod that wouldn't clear the firewall. The 400 truck had a two piece (three piece?) kick down. Not sure how well an aftermarket kickdown cable would work instead.

Yes I'm sorry I should be referring to it as "kickdown". I don't hear great things about Bouchillan cable. Maybe I can find a used one out there to buy.

If the engine is gone don't count on the engine mounts still being there. Plus you'll still need the oil pan and pick up, trans linkage, manifolds, etc.

Agreed , I doubt any of that is there . Any BB 3 piece kick down set up will work ,probably better off buying the parts separate. the booster is the same for the HD trucks 200(250)300(350) trucks

“Any BB 3 piece kick down set up will work”
Good to know

Yeah! Scratchn was just telling that! Much rather have that than Bouchillon cable

Okay, I'm going to place order for BB any day now. I'm ready to order. I MUST get a complete engine assembly. I cannot build one myself. I see Blueprint engines does not have big blocks. I probably would've considered them. I don't like what I've read recently on CME's. Edelbrock only has two Mopar crates both Gen3 426 c.i.d. Mopar Performance doesn't even have an assembled crate engine 440.

So two questions really; I'm thinking I should get a RB right? Or should I be thinking just BB? 2nd question; is there a slam dunk crate engine builder right now? What am I thinking? Standard bore 440, edelbrock aluminum heads and intake, probably roller cam setup and smooth idle don't want real lopey cam. Not looking to make racer out of truck and will have stock valve covers and Chrysler blue paint. Thanks.

Anyone familiar with Blue Monkey Performance Parts in AZ?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/123999898830?

Meeting in person with an engine builder on Friday

I didn't mind mine either but did swap to 2 center dump and ditched the rear dump on pass side. that makes it flow about as equal as you can get for manifolds. BUT I have the hedman 79250 headers now and would not go back to manifolds.

I think this is a better way to go.
To me, buying an assembled engine from an unknown is sketchy. You don't know what parts were put into it, and what was done for machining. Sure you can ask, but it doesn't mean you're getting told the truth. Not that they're all bad guys out there, but there are bad guys out there.
With a builder, you can see what's being done and what's being installed as it goes. It will probably take longer, but it can be built for your requirements, not something generic.

Wanted to go with a local one but just doesn't seem possible. Lots of recommendations for BES racing and spoke with Brett from there today and got a good feeling. Waiting on an emailed proposal now.

Got a bunch of parts from member Scratchnfortratchn and a GREAT deal!!!! And he delivered to me as well!! Thanks Mike for all the great BB parts that really pushed this project forward!!!

Thanks Larry, Glad to return the favor. you have help me out a lot with your generosity & great deals as well. Proud to call you Friend.

I had a great time at the beach but I could have done better paying attention to the route I took coming over...LOL! I dint really need to drive all the way to Daytona then down to I-95 to Melbourne. I should have turned in Orlando. hwy-17/92 to hwy-192....I think from now on I will always go hwy-60 to Vero beach then up to Melbourne. I don't seem to get lost here in FL. unless I go thru Orlando. LOL!

I am coming down the home stretch on a 440 swap out. I have a 79 sweptline, macho. It had a 360 in it. The items you ask about (what changes on the swap out) is hard to say for sure, because many of the parts in even original late 70s tucks are from the parts bin and some are not even Dodge/chrysler parts. Steering box is one of them, although you wouldn't necessarily need to swap that out with the bigger engine. My big ones were: the bell housing on the transmission - the small blocks won't line up with the big blocks. In my case we took out the trans, rebuilt it in a casing that fits the 440 big block. You will need a new torque converter. The brake booster won't fit as scheduled, but there are a couple places out there to get smaller diameter brake booster. I got a pretty gold plated one for $100, looks cool. Unload the radiator, the 440 will like an aluminum one and an electric fan. Of course you will need bigger and custom built/fit oil pan. Other than that, my swap out wasn't so bad. Just takes forever finding parts, so half of the parts I got I had custom made due to covid, people requiring cores before they will ship a part, or just not wanting to rebuild some POS part so I found folks to make custom ones.

ThanksMattmerica. I'm STILL waiting on builder and have gathered a bunch of parts. I have the engine mounts, all the factory linkages, headers, BB oil pan, BB edelbrock performer intake. Engine builder is going to help me source trans parts. Hoping Bouchillon will start having boosters again!

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