1998.5 3500 CTD question

Posted By: shinnery

1998.5 3500 CTD question - 05/31/14 10:49 AM

I have proved to myself I am not getting voltage to my lift pump (in the tank), can this only be the Engine Control Module or is there a combination of inputs the ECM needs to tell the pump to pump? All the relays and fuses seem to be good. I will probably add a relay off a (start and run) fuse in the junction box before I replace the ECM on the side of the engine. $$$$ This truck is only showing 324K miles. NP4500.
Bryce

Posted By: 440PURSUIT

Re: 1998.5 3500 CTD question - 05/31/14 02:26 PM

Stock lift pump on my 2000 was on the rear of the engine behind the Cup filter,

Posted By: Polarapete

Re: 1998.5 3500 CTD question - 05/31/14 05:44 PM

Quote:

Stock lift pump on my 2000 was on the rear of the engine behind the Cup filter,

The 24 valve motor introduced in 98 1/2 had the first of the electric lift pumps and it was hung on the side of the motor behind the fuel filter canister. The common rail injected motors (introduced in 2003) had their lift pumps in the tank. If your truck is otherwise stock, an upgrade is to install a FASS DDRP pump on the frame rail ahead of the fuel tank and push your fuel up to the filter. The old pump tries to suck fuel up hill and it kills them. Leave the old fuel pump bracket on the engine, it covers a hole in the block and will leak oil if removed. You will need a fuel pump relocation kit and the pump. You can get all the parts and info at www.genosgarage.com. They helped me when I had my CTD. Sometimes, I wish I still had it. Every man needs a locomotive once in his life.

Posted By: mopar65

Re: 1998.5 3500 CTD question - 05/31/14 06:21 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Stock lift pump on my 2000 was on the rear of the engine behind the Cup filter,

The 24 valve motor introduced in 98 1/2 had the first of the electric lift pumps and it was hung on the side of the motor behind the fuel filter canister. The common rail injected motors (introduced in 2003) had their lift pumps in the tank. If your truck is otherwise stock, an upgrade is to install a FASS DDRP pump on the frame rail ahead of the fuel tank and push your fuel up to the filter. The old pump tries to suck fuel up hill and it kills them. Leave the old fuel pump bracket on the engine, it covers a hole in the block and will leak oil if removed. You will need a fuel pump relocation kit and the pump. You can get all the parts and info at www.genosgarage.com. They helped me when I had my CTD. Sometimes, I wish I still had it. Every man needs a locomotive once in his life.

not all true. my 2004 ctd had the fuel pump mounted on the back side of the fuel filter housing.I don't think the intake fuel pump came factory until 2005.when my fuel pump quit dodge put a retro fuel pump kit in my tank.

Posted By: Polarapete

Re: 1998.5 3500 CTD question - 06/01/14 04:58 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Stock lift pump on my 2000 was on the rear of the engine behind the Cup filter,

The 24 valve motor introduced in 98 1/2 had the first of the electric lift pumps and it was hung on the side of the motor behind the fuel filter canister. The common rail injected motors (introduced in 2003) had their lift pumps in the tank. If your truck is otherwise stock, an upgrade is to install a FASS DDRP pump on the frame rail ahead of the fuel tank and push your fuel up to the filter. The old pump tries to suck fuel up hill and it kills them. Leave the old fuel pump bracket on the engine, it covers a hole in the block and will leak oil if removed. You will need a fuel pump relocation kit and the pump. You can get all the parts and info at www.genosgarage.com. They helped me when I had my CTD. Sometimes, I wish I still had it. Every man needs a locomotive once in his life.

not all true. my 2004 ctd had the fuel pump mounted on the back side of the fuel filter housing.I don't think the intake fuel pump came factory until 2005.when my fuel pump quit dodge put a retro fuel pump kit in my tank.

I cannot dispute that all I know is that on my 2002 it was that way and from what I read about the Cummins here
http://www.genosgarage.com/GenosGarageTechArticles/TDR56_DodgeFuelTransferPump.pdf

this is the way to solve your problem.

Posted By: J_BODY

Re: 1998.5 3500 CTD question - 06/01/14 06:28 AM

Yeah.... hang an electic motor on your frame rail where it's a prime target for rain/snow/road salt etc... No thanks.

...and on to the original question. I'll go out on a limb here and "assume" that you know what you're working on. You've stated you have no voltage to the "in tank lift pump". That would mean it's had the retrofit kit installed that mopar came up with for an in tank installation. As noted....your truck was born with a lift pump located on the engine right behind the fuel filter canister. This would mean that you have had a relay and small wiring harness installed as part of this upgrade. There is an inline fuse for this pump..... is it ok? There is also a relay that is energized by the "original" lift pump 2 pin plug that attaches to the add on harness. I'd be doing a voltage test at that connector. It's simply a B+ directly from the ECM and a ground. If no voltage there, yes, it's possible the driver in the ecm has failed. If that's the case I'd do exactly what you mentioned..... find a key on B+ source and use that to energize your relay.

Posted By: DRTMopar

Re: 1998.5 3500 CTD question - 06/01/14 01:00 PM

Look on the side of the block near your fuel filter there is your lift pump. It will have a 2 pin connector going to it. They are common for going out. It will usually take your VP44 with it.
http://dieselconversion.com/sites/dcs/files/kbase-pics/24-valve-lift-pump.jpg

Posted By: dusturbd340W5

Re: 1998.5 3500 CTD question - 06/02/14 12:24 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Stock lift pump on my 2000 was on the rear of the engine behind the Cup filter,

The 24 valve motor introduced in 98 1/2 had the first of the electric lift pumps and it was hung on the side of the motor behind the fuel filter canister. The common rail injected motors (introduced in 2003) had their lift pumps in the tank. If your truck is otherwise stock, an upgrade is to install a FASS DDRP pump on the frame rail ahead of the fuel tank and push your fuel up to the filter. The old pump tries to suck fuel up hill and it kills them. Leave the old fuel pump bracket on the engine, it covers a hole in the block and will leak oil if removed. You will need a fuel pump relocation kit and the pump. You can get all the parts and info at www.genosgarage.com. They helped me when I had my CTD. Sometimes, I wish I still had it. Every man needs a locomotive once in his life.

not all true. my 2004 ctd had the fuel pump mounted on the back side of the fuel filter housing.I don't think the intake fuel pump came factory until 2005.when my fuel pump quit dodge put a retro fuel pump kit in my tank.

That's correct the intank pump did not start until 2005, however if an earlier truck with a filter housing mounted pump had a pump failure it would have been replaced with the intank module.

Posted By: shinnery

Re: 1998.5 3500 CTD question - 06/06/14 11:53 AM

My bad. Sorry I took so long to get back but everything seems to take longer at 73.5 for some reason. I goofed, I looked under the hood and did not see the original "carter" looking pump and thought there was not a pump there. I got the connector loose on top of the tank and checked for voltage at the outer two pins and nothing there. That is when I asked about the control of the ECU. Went to town and bought parts to apply 12v to the tank and nothing happened. Got to looking better and discovered an "airtex" style pump that I thought was part of the starter originally. I put 12v to this pump and it will not run and I get 12v on the disconnected cable when I cycle the Ign. SW. so the ECU is working. As this is an economy deal, I ordered a pump from Rock Auto using a Mopar Action disc. I want to hear this thing run before I get too much into it. I am still less than $1300 including the pump from Rock. Just a well hail dinged 98.5 3500 QuadCab CTD 5 sp. showing 324K miles, possibly an ex Hot-Shot. I found it has air bags but the comp. is MIA. Also had some sort of an air hookup, on the side of the bed, for trailer brakes??
Bryce