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Axle upgrades for 78' 440 Ramcharger
Posted By: Slant6pak
Axle upgrades for 78' 440 Ramcharger - 04/24/13 03:54 AM
I've finally decided to try and get my Ramcharger running as I'm getting tired of pushing it around the garage with my 08' Ram
.
I'm planning on pulling the body off the frame and painting it before I install my freshly rebuilt 440.... but I've also decided to take closer look and the rest of the running gear before re-installing the body.
The 727 had a recent rebuild before the truck was parked years ago, and I've installed a new filter (it just has to last until I can find an Np445) and I planned to go through the Np203 as well.
Should I consider upgrading the axles as well? I'm not going to do serious wheeling... but will be running larger tires and slight lift. My 440 is quite a bit stronger than the original smogger 440 was.
I was thinking about looking for a set of 3/4 or 1 ton axles but haven't been lucky enough to find a set that was reasonably close.
Posted By: 76dodgeboy
Re: Axle upgrades for 78' 440 Ramcharger - 04/24/13 04:10 AM
If your not going to vet the piss out of it Id opt for 80-93 3/4 Ton D44/D60 or If you have the coin D60s front and rear
Posted By: Slant6pak
Re: Axle upgrades for 78' 440 Ramcharger - 04/24/13 04:14 AM
Could I just keep the front hubs locked with my Np203?
Honestly, I was hoping to snag one of the full-time Dana 44 HDs for the front just because everybody else hates them
Posted By: QuickDodge
Re: Axle upgrades for 78' 440 Ramcharger - 04/24/13 09:16 PM
You probably already know, but the 1978 hubs aren't noted for being strong enough for large tires. These hubs held up reasonably well with stock size tires.
I think you can use the locking hubs if you keep the hubs locked. I wouldn't recommend this because someone could unlock the hub when the truck is parked and the truck could roll away.
Seems like I heard of someone taking the hubs off a late 80's or early 90's CAD axle and using these newer hubs on the 1970's axles. This swap is susposed to eliminate the hub problems of the 1970's axles and the weaker center of the CAD axles. In other words, you are using the best parts of both axles.
Hopefully someone else will chime in and tell you more about this swap. I'm not real good on the 4x4 stuff.
Posted By: 76dodgeboy
Re: Axle upgrades for 78' 440 Ramcharger - 04/24/13 10:49 PM
You can always locate a Cad axle that gas no lockout, Pull the Cad mechanism flip the fork and that keeps it locked like a full time and no need to worry about punk kids or grown men messing with your ride
Posted By: 76dodgeboy
Re: Axle upgrades for 78' 440 Ramcharger - 04/24/13 10:53 PM
Quote:
You probably already know, but the 1978 hubs aren't noted for being strong enough for large tires. These hubs held up reasonably well with stock size tires.
Seems like I heard of someone taking the hubs off a late 80's or early 90's CAD axle and using these newer hubs on the 1970's axles. This swap is susposed to eliminate the hub problems of the 1970's axles and the weaker center of the CAD axles. In other words, you are using the best parts of both axles.
Hopefully someone else will chime in and tell you more about this swap. I'm not real good on the 4x4 stuff.
Yes you can swap 80-93 knuckles out onto your full time axle. Even the 3/4 ton. I was going to on a drum brake front axle.
Posted By: NITROUSN
Re: Axle upgrades for 78' 440 Ramcharger - 04/24/13 11:21 PM
Junk that 203 and failure prone weak bearing front end. Find a doner 80 to 93 and swap the front and rear along with the transfer case.
Posted By: redraptor
Re: Axle upgrades for 78' 440 Ramcharger - 04/24/13 11:34 PM
Quote:
Junk that 203 and failure prone weak bearing front end. Find a doner 80 to 93 and swap the front and rear along with the transfer case.
80-93 what? I have that era CAD 44 and a 9 1/4 that have taken some abuse and haven't failed. I still have high gears and run low range and I haven't tried to break it. I can buy 9 1/4 rears all day cheap and probably the 44's and with with aftermarket axles would be cheaper than anyone wants for D60's or D70's.
My pet peeve is really what axles are easier to maintain and less costly for bearings, seals, & brake pads.
Posted By: 76dodgeboy
Re: Axle upgrades for 78' 440 Ramcharger - 04/24/13 11:45 PM
He's referring to the part time axles that started in 80 For Dodge.
I've always heard Halfton D44s were weak with bigger tires yet I see TONs with tires over 37"
I don't think a D60 rear is worth alt do to them being standard in 3/4tons 2 or 4wd
Posted By: redraptor
Re: Axle upgrades for 78' 440 Ramcharger - 04/24/13 11:52 PM
Quote:
He's referring to the part time axles that started in 80 For Dodge.
I've always heard Halfton D44s were weak with bigger tires yet I see TONs with tires over 37"
I don't think a D60 rear is worth alt do to them being standard in 3/4tons 2 or 4wd
Don't alot of Jeeps use 44's on front or rear? The 9 1/4 is cheap for parts but I really haven't analized bearings & seals for D60 front versus what I have or how it's designed from the steering knuckle out.
Posted By: hp383
Re: Axle upgrades for 78' 440 Ramcharger - 04/25/13 02:03 AM
If you end up with a D60 rear, and run the 727, I have a rear driveshaft you might want.
I had mine shortened to fit the D60, then ended up putting in a D70 before it was driven.
Posted By: NITROUSN
Re: Axle upgrades for 78' 440 Ramcharger - 04/25/13 03:14 AM
Quote:
80-93 what?
1,2 Ton or 3/4 ton drive line. What else would there be??????
Posted By: 76dodgeboy
Re: Axle upgrades for 78' 440 Ramcharger - 04/25/13 03:48 AM
Jeeps aren't as heavy ad a fullsize truck either
Posted By: Slant6pak
Re: Axle upgrades for 78' 440 Ramcharger - 04/25/13 03:59 AM
I intend to keep my Np203,
I hope I will be able to do 4-wheel burnouts
I don't intend to go nuts with lift or tires, I'm limited by the size of my garage door. I can go 2" lift with 33s and fit in with a couple inches to spare. I've read that most 3/4 and 1 ton axles are already fitted with 4.10s and 8 bolt lugs would allow me to use Hummer H2 take off wheels (don't cringe, they actually look nice on these trucks minus the center cap)
The truck will be more of a resto-mod than a serious offroader. The worst it will ever see is a trip up to our property outside La Grange which requires an overland route to reach.
Posted By: RUNCHARGER
Re: Axle upgrades for 78' 440 Ramcharger - 04/25/13 04:16 AM
The 203 and the full time frontend were not the best setup when they were new, now they're 35 years old. You can probably find a good NP205 for the price of a new chain for the 203.
I don't like the 4.5 bolt pattern with tires bigger than 31's myself. So if' you're going to a bigger bolt pattern anyway why not benefit from freewheeling hubs and a stronger T-case to boot. That's how I build my stuff anyway and this is how I use it.
Sheldon
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Posted By: RUNCHARGER
Re: Axle upgrades for 78' 440 Ramcharger - 04/25/13 04:19 AM
My kid built this one and the first time he used it he had broken the Aluminum 208 after 5 minutes (no joke). Found a Cummins truck and bought the 205 and it's still in there.
Built up 440? Find a Cummins truck that's beat and swap in the NP205 and the front D60, trade the 70U for a 60 rear, a lot of them run 3.54's. I've run stock 440's with a D44 front and they sort of hold up if you drive them like a girl. If you romp on them you'll be spending lots on broken parts with a D44. IMO.
Sheldon
Posted By: NITROUSN
Re: Axle upgrades for 78' 440 Ramcharger - 04/25/13 02:23 PM
Quote:
I intend to keep my Np203,
Thats your choice. Not the right choice in my opinion. If you are not worried about that antique junk I would not worry about the rest. Thats my opinion.
Posted By: MMiller
Re: Axle upgrades for 78' 440 Ramcharger - 04/26/13 05:12 AM
While I'm no fan of full time 4x4, a 203 doesn't scare me. A dana 44 front, 33" tires a 440 and a 4 speed does though. If you really are going to try 4 wheel burn outs, start sourcing a dana 60 front. With stock size tires, a tired 440 and 4 speed, any time I got offroad, the 44 front was shelling parts. Everything was replaced with new and still broke.......
I have a dana 60 front with a lockrite, and all stock components that are 35 years old, and a much better running 440. I've never had it opened up since I put it in the truck 9 years ago and its been beat a lot.
Michael
Posted By: Polarapete
Re: Axle upgrades for 78' 440 Ramcharger - 04/26/13 04:27 PM
I had a friend and co-conspirator named Bill Banks (RIP) that owned a wrecking yard in Redmond, WA and after he sold his race car he built a Power Wagon for fun. Since he had the time and the resources he checked the dimensions of everything in the yard. He ended up with the complete drive train from a Chevrolet (gasp) 1 ton 4x4. It was way overkill bulletproof with a 400/727 combo. Both he and the Power Wagon are gone now, so I cannot ask specifics, but I know he never had to walk home due to driveline failure.
Posted By: Slant6pak
Re: Axle upgrades for 78' 440 Ramcharger - 04/29/13 03:43 AM
Thank you to all who replied,
I'm still going to try an source a 3/4 or 1 ton set of axles for my truck. That will at least give me the bigger brakes up front on the 44HD and will net me a Dana 60 rear. The larger stuff has to be at least a little more resistant to failure than my current axles, not to mention the my trucks front axle was full of mud when I got it... which gives me doubts that it will last any length of time behind any motor. In addition, my current wheels and tires are total crap so I don't mind changing bolts patterns.
I will upgrade to a Dana 60 front when I can.
Next silly question, can I build a Dana 60 front that is compatible with a full time transfer case? I know I can source a Dana 60 and simply keep the hubs locked, but did any of the later CAD trucks have Dana 60s up front?
Posted By: RUNCHARGER
Re: Axle upgrades for 78' 440 Ramcharger - 04/29/13 04:12 AM
I owned a 77 W200 with factory 440, NP203 and optional D60 frontend. So yes. I quickly pulled off the hub drive plates and installed freewheeling hubs though along with a part time kit for the NP203.
Sheldon
Posted By: 76dodgeboy
Re: Axle upgrades for 78' 440 Ramcharger - 04/29/13 03:59 PM
Just find a D60 front from the 70s. I have 2
Posted By: Slant6pak
Re: Axle upgrades for 78' 440 Ramcharger - 04/29/13 05:00 PM
I can't find anything locally...
Which is part of the problem. Seems everytime I see axles for sale they are up in the rust belt.
I have yet to find a junkyard in Houston that has any old Dodge trucks left. Its been over 2 years since I've seen a 72-80 in a yard.
Posted By: Polarapete
Re: Axle upgrades for 78' 440 Ramcharger - 04/29/13 06:00 PM
You need to think outside the box...see my post above about the Chevrolet/GMC axles. My friend Bill was not a great fabricator, but he could bolt together parts and if I recall corectly the Chev/GMC driveline swap was nearly a bolt-in deal...the truck won't know what it is using for axles
Posted By: redraptor
Re: Axle upgrades for 78' 440 Ramcharger - 04/29/13 11:05 PM
Quote:
I can't find anything locally...
Which is part of the problem. Seems everytime I see axles for sale they are up in the rust belt.
That's funny cuz' I can't find any rust free body parts locally. The ones I see online are in TEXAS! 
Posted By: Slant6pak
Re: Axle upgrades for 78' 440 Ramcharger - 04/29/13 11:24 PM
Nah none of that down here.
At least none that I can find in yards. 72-80 trucks down here are rusted out too, just not as bad.
My RC is swiss cheese below the bodyside molding. Probably could find a less rusty truck... but the patch panels are available and this truck has sentimental value to me.
Posted By: MMiller
Re: Axle upgrades for 78' 440 Ramcharger - 05/02/13 12:34 AM
Chevy axles are not bolt in....the spring pad width on the dana 60 front is at least an inch different. The two times I put 14 bolts in the rear of my Dodges, I had to cut the spring perches off and re-weld them. That is easy but the front end is not an easy deal. The Dodge springs are wider then the pads on a Chevy, and the passenger side is cast into the center section, so its not a cut/weld deal. Have cash in hand and be patient. Watch 1stgen.org classifieds, Pirate4x4 classifieds, and other cites like that for dana 60 fronts from Dodges.
Its not impossible, I just don't want the original poster to buy axles from a Chevy and they will swap in easily.
Michael
Posted By: 76dodgeboy
Re: Axle upgrades for 78' 440 Ramcharger - 05/02/13 01:25 AM
You can find them cheap. I have 3 fronts. Paid $500 for from and rear $300 for another and $450 for the other. Alt of guys want $600+ for just the front. 70s D44hd/D60 from a 3/4 I wouldn't pay more than $300 for the pr unless Freshly gone through
Posted By: imfixinmopars426
Re: Axle upgrades for 78' 440 Ramcharger - 05/02/13 03:02 AM
use a dana 60 front open knuckle,with good spicer u-joints,and a gm 14 bolt rear.weld the snot out of the spiders to form a "Lincoln lock" and you will have a set of axles that will take a while to break...also use a 205 transfer. I ran a stout big block,and new TSL 44" swampers,and added hydro steering,and a ARB airlocker in the front..
note don't waste you time on any junk d44 fronts,OR any d60 rears. they snap like twigs! the 60 rears have very small axle shafts,and are not like our car units.if your not breaking these,you don't have any power..at all,lol.
Posted By: hp383
Re: Axle upgrades for 78' 440 Ramcharger - 05/02/13 03:24 AM
Double check your brakes, IIRC the D44 and D44HD both use the same caliper, and pad.
Posted By: NITROUSN
Re: Axle upgrades for 78' 440 Ramcharger - 05/02/13 03:53 AM
Quote:
the 60 rears have very small axle shafts,and are not like our car units.if your not breaking these,you don't have any power..at all,lol.
I ran 35 spline on my dana 60 with no issues. Ran 44 cut boggers or 14 paddle bigger diggers on 36 inch casings at about 1200 HP.
Posted By: viperblue72
Re: Axle upgrades for 78' 440 Ramcharger - 05/09/13 10:50 AM
Quote:
Chevy axles are not bolt in....the spring pad width on the dana 60 front is at least an inch different. The two times I put 14 bolts in the rear of my Dodges, I had to cut the spring perches off and re-weld them. That is easy but the front end is not an easy deal. The Dodge springs are wider then the pads on a Chevy, and the passenger side is cast into the center section, so its not a cut/weld deal. Have cash in hand and be patient. Watch 1stgen.org classifieds, Pirate4x4 classifieds, and other cites like that for dana 60 fronts from Dodges.
Its not impossible, I just don't want the original poster to buy axles from a Chevy and they will swap in easily.
Michael
A chevy front end does bolt into a dodge. There is a bit of width difference, but it is close enough, especially with lift springs that alot of people just bolt them in and it works just fine.
Posted By: Slant6pak
Re: Axle upgrades for 78' 440 Ramcharger - 05/12/13 07:18 PM
Can somebody post a pic of the 75-79 Dodge D60 full time front axle?
I know these have drive flanges and are bolt in but I have no idea what this setup actually looks like....
Will the assembly have an part/casting numbers to identify it?
Dimensions?
I'm trying to get in contact with a local guy that is supposed to have a pile of Dana 60 fronts... I want to make darn sure I'm getting what I want before paying his price.
Posted By: 76dodgeboy
Re: Axle upgrades for 78' 440 Ramcharger - 05/12/13 07:48 PM
I can get pics tonight or tomorrow morning. Got 2 sitting at the house. ones a DRW(duel rear wheel aka duelly) and other is SRW(single rear wheel) I have SRW hubs st swap the drw over. Has 4.88gears and will be in a 79 Clubcab Shortbox stepside with 6"suspension lift and 37" military tires and 440/4spd
