Drones spy on old car collections

https://reason.com/2023/06/05/michi...an-warrantlessly-spy-on-you-with-drones/

sample quote

Todd and Heather Maxon live on a five-acre property in rural Long Lake Township on the northwest corner of Michigan's Lower Peninsula. Todd likes to work on cars, so they keep vehicles on the property but hidden from the road. In 2007, the township sued the Maxons for storing "junk" on their property, a zoning violation. The couple fought back and won: The township agreed to drop the case and reimburse attorney fees, and in exchange the Maxons would not expand their collection.
According to the township, neighbors complained that the Maxons were still acquiring cars. But the cars weren't visible from the road, making enforcement difficult. So the township hired a company to fly drones over the property and take pictures, which it did multiple times in the period from 2010 to 2018. The pictures allegedly showed that the number of vehicles had indeed expanded, so the township sued the Maxons for violating the previous agreement.

The Maxons moved to suppress the drone evidence as a Fourth Amendment violation, since the township never got a warrant.

end quote

Huge issue and it’s going to get bigger. I fly a drone. I’ve heard over about 80 feet above private property is free air space, but that’s MUCH TO LOW for me. I fly at 400 over other peoples property, and of course the bigger issue is what are you doing there? And I’m not the government.

In New York State, most counties are flown by commercial entities to prepare various maps and the like. Each county has access to these photos and maps, and are often used for code enforcement or to detect new buildings well off the road and no permits issued. The state flies the shorelines to detect non-permitted work/changes.

The reality is, anyone can just jump on to google or zillow or a hundred other on-line sites and get the same information, and see pretty much the same thing. Even though your vehicles may be impossible to see from the road, anyone with a computer/cell phone can 'fly over' your property and see what you've got.

I just dealt with this issue yesterday. I do security for a private community. One of the residents complained about a drone, flying over everyone's space in this private (gated) community. I called local sheriff dispatch after spotting the drone operator just outside of the community with the control in his hands, and seeing the drone over the community hovering around. Deputy shows up, and tells me that the guy can legally fly his drone over the property... since they cannot control or enforce "the air".

A .177 cal air rifle would fix those drones.

“Sputnik Declassified” NOVA TV show

I had not thought about it when I posted this, but the root issue is very similar to what President Eisenhower was trying to get the USSR to “fall into” by prohibiting the USA from launching the first satellite into orbit, so that the Soviets would establish the idea that space could be used by anyone to “spy” on what was on the ground.

Everything old is new again.

There was a television show called Carspotting where a group of young men used drones to look for project cars and would then go to the property and try to buy the cars. I know the city I live in has two drones and will probably be using them to see what people have in their yards. I have resorted to stacking the cars inside the garage. I still have five outside, three in trailers ,and four at my friends house.

Modern problems often create modern solutions….. would be interesting

http://www.dynamicshielding.com/anti-drone/hunter-fo/

it will but may also cause you a bunch of legal issues shooting something out of the air like that.

Depends on if it's broadcasting images Live, or recording for later retrieval by owners..

I have been a radio control airplane modeler for many years. Honestly I don't like drones at all because everyone in the hobby is now lumped into the same boat and criminalized the same way. I fly line of sight at an AMA ( Academy of Model Aeronautics) approved field. We have a list of rules we abide by and in the eyes of the feds none of that mattered at all. Pretty soon if someone wants to fly ANY model that weighs more than 250 grams they will have to use a transponder in the model that will transmit the operator's location and information, or face a hefty fine. And yes there is a difference between a r/c model aircraft ( think scale piper cub) and a quadcopter with a damn camera attached to it. The government however, classifies them in the exact same way.

I support Car Nut on this one.
If some dippshit was flying one over my place low enough for me to shoot it, I'd do it and dump the drone somewhere else...in case it had some GPS tracker on it. Good luck proving that I did it. This state doesn't prosecute misdemeanors anymore.....I might as well work the system to my advantage.

I'm all in favor of knocking down a drone being flown by some creepy peeping Tom. The problem with shooting it is that it's potentially a Federal offense, not some local misdemeanor. You do not want the Feds knocking at your door.

To a point I understand the issue of vehicles in the yard creating an eyesore for neighbors. My dad was a VW mechanic, and as a kid I recall some old VWs in the back yard (typical small house yard, 60x120), thinking it looked crappy. When I had a house in a small town, and too much "stuff", I eventually built a large enough garage to contain it all. Same for my current house. I have eleven motorcycles and they are all contained in my detached shop and in the yard shed. I live in a nice neighborhood about 1.5 mile west of Lambeau field in Green Bay. Keeping the area nice looking is good for everyone.

But the issue of privacy is bigger. Police cannot enter my home or shop without probablt cause and a warrant. So now the air space above my property may become a privacy issue as well. If I had a wife or daughter who liked to sun bathe in a swimming suit, or hang around the back yard pool, and some drone is hovering over my yard, at whatever distance, that is a huge issue. Similarily, if the city in which I pay taxes for publis serivce and safety, is now using tech to check in on my property without me giving persmission, that is a huge issue. At minimum the fly over hieght should be just under the minimum FAA hieght for planes, which I think is 500'.

Sure, go on Google Earth and check out your own yard, or get a street view of your house just by typing in your address, I have done it many times. To the point I can tell approximately how recent the image of my house and yard is. But to fly over my property specifically to check out what is no easily/commonly visible from any public passerby is a violation of privacy.

If you have to fly a drone over the property to even see these cars, then what's the problem w/ them?

Id be more worried about the drones and surveillance one does not see vs one being obvious.

I saw this on another site and it gave the address of the house. If you look it up on Google earth, it appears the guy has a truck load of vehicles stashed in the trees around his house as well as the ones lined up neatly outside his shop.
It appears you can't see any of them from the road (thanks Street View). I'm of the opinion that if you can't see them without accessing the property, they aren't there. I would have issues with drones flying over my property to look for zoning issues too. Shooting them down though I believe to be a federal offense as others have mentioned.

I have the cars that are outside the building covered in camouflage tarps.

If you have that many cars sitting around your property unprotected from the elements you need to...A. Build a building to put them in or B. Start selling them off. Otherwise they turn into the old "Nope, not for sale...gonna restore it someday" story that sits there and rots onto the ground.

Scary to say the least.
What if that drone camera peered thru a window/sliding door & caught glimpse of something "possibly" suspicious within?
They would claim probable cause for a home search warrant.
Drones/cameras are becoming so high-tech: very quiet & infrared gives me the shivers.

I have a faint memory of a story I heard, I can't recall who told it.
The story was, some county had a really aggressive tax assessment department where they used satellite photos to look for ways to impose taxes on people with un permitted structures, pools, or home improvements. The guy that told the story lived in this area and would occasionally put out a large blue plastic tarp in the shape of a pool just to mess with the tax men. They'd send letters and come to the house but by then, he had rolled up the tarp to hide the "evidence".

Fourth Amendment

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

So what did “effects” mean in the period 1787 to 1793 ?

“particularly describing the place to be searched,”
to me means they have to have a Warrant with that description for a government official to send a device over each single “persons” effects.

They certainly cannot fly over multiple persons effects without a particular Warrant and Oath for each.

14th Amendment extended this to apply to every State, and every State’s local government, as a minimum “right.”

[https://youtu.be/y_D-TdN2phI

This guy discusses it in depth on his channel. He also has written a book on Superbirds and Daytonas.

Lehto does many videos about about the shenanigans being done by LE in this country.

Taking a satchel of cash to buy a nice Mopar could be problematic.