Suggestion from your friendly neighborhood insurance guy

This is a great year to shop for home and auto insurance, especially if you have one of the major carriers. 9 of the top 10 carriers lost money last year, and some of them lost a LOT of money. As a result, they are raising rates. Several smaller carriers and regional carriers did pretty well last year, as did the #2 auto insurer. It is worth shopping around, especially if you are getting whacked with an increase despite not having any claims, tickets, etc.

My home insurance went up 35%, and my auto went up 13%. Combined, I was going to be paying $3,585. I switched companies and will now be paying $2,194 combined, a 39% difference. This is for exactly the same amount of liability coverage, same value on my house, replacement cost coverage, same comp/collision deductibles on my cars, etc. Zero coverage changes at all.

The nine top 10 carriers that lost money last year are not going to be in a position to lower or stabilize rates for a while. Most of them aren't very good at underwriting in the first place. The exception here is Geico. Like Progressive, Geico is good at underwriting (not quite as good as Progressive, but good). Geico's being hurt by an increase in claim handling costs. Theirs have spiked significantly. This is not how much they pay out on a claim, but rather the expense involved in handling the claim. They are usually the best in the industry and controlling this cost, but they have cratered in that regard.

It's worth looking around. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

I have Geico for the cars and have not had a problem but the wife pays the bill.

My mortgage company sent me a notice my homeowners (paid from escrow) went up and offered another company. I thought it was a sales pitch so they could get commission but now I am worried.

Thanks for the information and looking out for others with it.

Any chance of finding the list of those potentially raising their rates?

9 of the top 10 carriers. Progressive is the only one not raising overall rates. Several smaller/regional carriers will be raising rates as well, but some of them that underwrite more conservatively and invest more conservatively did OK, and are now in a position to either hold rates steady or decrease them.

If you look up the financial results for any carrier, that will give you a good idea of who is raising rates. The key number is Combined Ratio (CR). This represents how much they made/lost for every dollar of premium they earned.

- Written premium = how much they were owed/how much they billed.
- Earned premium = how much they collected.
- Combined Ratio = total claim payouts + total claim handling expenses/earned premium

A well run company that underwrites accurately typically wants a CR of .96, meaning they make $0.04 on every dollar of earned premium. Lots of carriers were at 1.05, 1.08, 1.1x, etc. 2nd poor year in a row for some of them, which leaves no alternative but to raise rates.

A buddy of mine who just retired from running a collision repair shop LOATHED GEICO.
Every time I visited, I heard more stories of substandard parts they'd mandated for repairs, or where they'd significantly cut repair times and procedures.
Just like the crappy auto parts nowadays, the profits & savings come out of the Customer.
GEICO isn't the only outfit short-changing repair quality - I had battles with several a few years back - so one has to look at the actual service provided when needed.
I remember well that when I worked for insurers how their accounting was essentially a shell game.

Just started shopping over the weekend. AAA, in their infinite stupidity, saw a tarp on the roof of the new garage before we got the tar paper and shingles on and said I had deferred maintenance I hadn't got to and are dropping us at the end of the term (end of May). I called and told them that was not a good way to treat a customer since 1985 and they would likely lose my auto business as well. I can appeal it with photos of the finished garage, but I expect better service than that. My son and I put the tarp up over the summer as we had rain coming and I was recovering from surgery and Covid so I couldn't get to it for a couple of months. I've got an old friend from school working up quotes for me.

Thanks for the heads up , I'll have to look at what just came in the mail .

I never knew about the combined ratio. I just looked up Allstate as I have had them for decades. Their CR was 112.6 for 2022! I just got my homeowner's policy renewal in the mail yesterday. I will look at it tonight. Thanks for the heads up and the info.

i work in a VW certified body shop.
i wouldn't have geico insurance on my car if it was free.
their claims process is the absolute worst in the industry. their estimate are pretty bad also. you have to supplement every one.
to supplement they require a personal inspection. it usually takes about 10 business days to get someone to show up to inspect.
i think the last geico job i did their photo estimate was $1500. we supplemented $25,000 on a 2022 absolute top of the line VW Atlas, $60K+ suv, with 200 miles on it. it was T boned in the drivers side. yes it was totaled. they tried to deny payment for the rental car over 3 days. it took 15 working days to get them to show up to inspect. they were a claimant
the manager tries his best to avoid working on geico insured cars.

They are not good at underwriting. They're not State Farm bad, but they're not good. They suffer from some of the same issues SF does, or at least they (Allstate) did. Allstate was solidly in 2nd place for decades. I think they had 18% of the market at one point, back when SF had 1/3 of the market. Like SF, they got arrogant. And, like will happen to SF in the near future, Allstate got knocked down a few pegs. They bought National General a few years ago in order to increase their market share, but NatGen was a pretty terrible company. They had difficulty retaining talent because it was miserable place to work. I know that Allstate was hoping to change that.

I know you stated home and auto, but I think it may be a good time to check around for even just auto right now. Saved my Mother about $50 a month. May not sound like a lot, but when you're on fixed income, it is a lot.

So you switched insurance companies? You don't buy insurance from the company you work for?

I do now. 1st time ever.

For those of us not so smart, could you tell us what the top 10 companies are?

Ah, wow, I'm stunned.

I always wanted to keep that separate, regardless of who I would've worked for. Having a claim with one's employer has, in some circumstances (theft, uninsured motorist injury involving a hit-skip), the potential to be a little weird. However, everyone else's rates for me jumped so much that I couldn't say no. The 2nd lowest quote I got was from Safeco, which was $600/year more than what I'm paying. Also, I like to keep home/auto with the same carrier, and my employer did not have their own homeowner's coverage until a few years ago.

I had MetLife for home/auto for years. Their claims service sucked, but since I do that for a living, I was willing to deal with it because my rates were so much lower than any other carrier I was quoted. A few years ago, Farmers bought MetLife's home/auto business, and my rates went up a bit, though still cheaper than other quotes I got. This year, they skyrocketed.

Home:

State Farm
Allstate
USAA
Liberty Mutual
Farmers
Travelers
American Family
Nationwide
Chubb
Progressive

Auto:

State Farm
Progressive
Geico
Allstate
USAA
Liberty Mutual
Farmers
Nationwide
American Family
Travelers

I have Farm Bureau and the rates pretty much stayed the same for home and auto. May have went up a few bucks. A few months ago the wife got an estimate from one of her friends in the insurance business and said she couldn't beat the rates we have now.

Yes, the various Farm Bureaus are small carriers and some of those carriers have done well enough to not have to raise rates, or have been able to reduce rates.

Insurance is this playing chess. You have to move your piece to win. Lol. I get an auto insurance company and they sneak up the rates on you all the time. I had travelers for the last two years and I’ve got a niece that went to work for a big insurance company in Dallas and she got me in with progressive. The rate on five cars dropped down about $60 a month. She could not touch my homeowners. I’ve had it with a guy for years at about $1500. She said they had big increases this year and the best she could do was $2500. Last year that rate would have been $1800. She said my insurance was a different tier level that she could not write.

USAA is killing me year after year.

Got this in a email for the first time....Natural Disaster Coverage ????

Hail season is here - are you and your family prepared? Because you live in an area where hail can occur, we want to help protect your loved ones, your home and your finances!
It's important to know that even with adequate coverage, most members would pay at least $1,500 in total deductibles after a natural disaster.
Find out if your property could be vulnerable to natural disasters and what coverage you might need by completing a Property Risk Assessment and Natural Disaster Coverage Review.
We have tools that help you prepare financially for a natural disaster!
Looking for more ways to get ready for the upcoming season?
Visit the Natural Disaster Preparation Site to learn more about our tools, checklists and advice to stay safe during a hailstorm.
We hope that hail never strikes your home or auto, but we always stand ready to serve you.
Thank you,
United Services Automobile Association


Living in a state that ranks 1 or 2 in auto theft im told im paying for that even though im 200 miles from the big city in a very rural area and my cars are lightly driven and never sit outside.

So are you saying the above companies are the best rate wise?
I was with American family for 28 years up to 6 or 7 policies at one point. last year we had 1 claim on the house, the only claim on ALL policies in 11 years and the premium jumped 35%
So I'm currently with Nationwide. the agent's a bit flakey so we'll be talking a bit more come June or so

my experiences with staet farm claim wise are not good

Auto Owners here with Auto, Home, and Camp.

No, I said 9 out of the top 10 carriers (I should've specified auto carriers) lost money last year. Some lost money the year before too. All 9 of them lost a lot of money overall. All of them are raising rates. The company that made money is not raising rates, and is actually reducing rates for some.

By "top 10," I'm referring to market share.

We have Nationwide for the house and cars. I should check into our rates.

That was why I was asking who the largest 10 were. I can see my coverage is also with one of the big 10, so now I also know who not to check rates with until all other options have been eliminated. Don't want to jump from the kettle into the frying pan if I can help it.

Try homeowners insurance in Florida right now. Its unaffordable.

Yep. I have USAA for homeowner's, and it's as if they're trying to run me off.

Homeowners is a disaster (no pun intended) in Florida. Combination of catastrophe losses, bad underwriting, and bad insurance laws that were intended to help consumers but backfired. The root cause was bad underwriting. The 2004 hurricanes are what exposed the bad underwriting.

The auto market in FL is huge. Homeowners is a loss leader, designed to get customers to buy other products like auto, life, etc. from the same carrier as their homeowners. Insurers were greedy for a long time by undercharging for homeowners in the hopes of more than making it up on other products. It finally bit them in the a$$, and now many of them actively want out of FL. FL law prevents them from doing so unless they give up all of their business in FL, not just home. Carriers are responding with rates that are beyond sky high because they are trying to cover/recoup their losses on home, and at least some of them are throwing in the towel and hoping their rates are high enough that people will cancel and give the carrier a path to exit FL.

I think part of the problem in Florida is the homes are crap.

When I lived in Okinawa Japan the houses were reinforced concrete block with concrete slab roofs and shutters made with 2x4's fastened edge to edge.

When a typhoon (hurricane for us Americans) came a calling we just bought food, closed our shutters and rode it out. Those houses were built to survive Earthquakes, Typhoons, and tsunami's. I do not think you could burn them down either because many of the interior walls were block also.

In Florida, and the rest of our Gulf/Atlantic coast, they build matchsticks made to blow away. When the insurance company has to replace a house every 10 years or so there is no way to make insurance cost effective. Florida being the worst because the whole state is in a hazardous position for hurricane damage. At least the other coastal states have inland homes that won't be damaged by hurricanes and can make up the difference in losses.

At least that is my take.

If I move to Florida I would like to build a house like I had in Japan and insure the contents not the building if that was possible.

I have Metlife , now Farmers , my auto didn't go up much but my homeowners pretty much doubled ... thanks for the heads up .... I did file a claim in 2021 , first time in 16 years ... time to change my homeowners ...

You're not wrong. The older cinder block homes routinely get mowed down to be replaced with fancy (looking) frame houses with brick facing.

I've had MetLife for years on the Drivers - they were easy to deal with on claims when I ran collision shops, and had inexpensive rates - and wasn't happy that Farmers bought them.
(Farmers was horrible on auto claims in Spokane, Nationwide almost as bad, Safeco depended on who I dealt with but mostly bad.)
Hasn't been a problem yet, but will shop around when my Independent Agent gets free of the non-compete clause Farmers made her sign.
Home policy is American Modern.
Around here, Farm Bureau has a good rep and I never had problems with them.

Does progressive do collector car agreed coverage?

They will broker/bundle it through Hagerty, I believe.

what is your opinion about Erie insurance ?
i have used them since around 1974 or so, and have both of our cars insured, plus our house.
sometimes the rates are higher, sometimes lower, than other companies.
with that said, i received a letter from them some time ago, stating since i have been with them so long and i no longer drive to work, the vehicle rate will stay the same until i move or change vehicles.
any thoughts on that ?

Erie is a solid company. As far as no longer changing your rate, that depends upon what other companies would charge you. In the current climate, it's probably a good thing.

Just had a friend tell me yesterday that he switched his home/auto (5 cars, I think?) from Allstate, saving $3,600/year by going with another company.

Shop around folks. A few minutes of your time could really pay off.

Not surprising.


Having been a former Allstate agency owner, that company is horribly mismanaged!

I was told by my insurance agent that Allstate and Geico have stopped writing policies in California and are basically looking to get out of the state. Not surprising to me

Between health, car and home insurance how will mortals be able to afford to survive. It's getting BRUTAL out here.

And do we all "chip in" with increased insurance costs when these costal areas get mowed down every year? I'm asking.

Also when I worked for "the man", I would be in places between Dallas and Atlanta. THOSE PLACES are mowed down nearly every month with tornados now. WTH? It's like the new Oklahoma. How do we all all pay a fortune in insurance to keep putting towns together that were torn down two years prior? Like New Orleans, some places werent meant to be inhabited. Some places should not be covered by the rest of us. Also here in DETROIT area, we pay like $200 or $300 PER CAR for uninsured drivers!?!?! The mayor of Detroit said 60% of the people have no car insurance. My son in law, a police officer, said its higher than that!!!!

MI car insurance is high because of uncapped PIP coverage and their very unusual no-fault laws.

I just got dropped. Son rolled an 18 RDX and he backed into someone and took off. He 'allegedly' didn't know what happened. So the insurance company dropped us. I hope they're not expecting to be paid. Why should I pay if I have to go shopping for it. They can also s a d if they think I'm going to keep their homeowners insurance.

How old is your son, and how long have you been with that insurance company?

You aint telling me anythiung new! I pay like $8000 on 4 vehicles!!!!!!!!!!! We're 61, 61 and 23.
21 Ram 1500
21 Blazer
21 Ranger
17 Ram 2500

These aren't Ferraris or Rovers!

Over $1000 of that is paying for "uninsured motorists". And an uninsured motorist can actually sue YOU if you get in an accident with one of them. Is that nuts or what? This state really is a DISASTER. Did I mention the vast majority of the people in Detroit (and probably every other bigger city in MI) aren't insured. How is that even possible!?!?! I guess laws are only for law abiding people.

Right across the border in Ohio, 60 miles away, insurance is HALF what MI pays.

He's 19. We were with them at least 5 years. They forget they charged me to have a Lexus on there for a year while I was in Arkansas on USAA.

Geico is owned by one of the wealthiest people in the world. They never would offer me anything less than a metric ton more than other carriers. I suppose that guy didn’t get all that money by offering cheap rates.

I personally think if you get hit by someone without insurance, they should be 100% at fault and be able to be sued for driving illegally. If you hit someone without insurance, you should just pay as if it's not your fault because they shouldn't have been on the road. People driving without insurance are one reason why the rates are higher.

Most people who are uninsured are not collectible. Suing them is fruitless, and suspending their license rarely works because if they don't care about being uninsured, they don't care about whether or not they have a license either. We see it all of the time.

I get the sentiment about an uninsured person being automatically at fault, but it can't be that way. If I'm stopped at a red light, and someone hits me from behind, they are at fault and should be held responsible for damages/injuries. If I'm uninsured, then I should be penalized as the law allows, but I should not be left holding the bag if it wasn't my fault. The "shouldn't have been on the road argument" is an emotional argument, though very understandable. I feel that way in my gut about impaired drivers, but I know it's not feasible. The same argument could be also made regarding distracted drivers, unlicensed drivers, and other scenarios. The problem with that approach is that it lets someone who broke the law by being at fault in an accident avoid responsibility for that. I rear-end you, I broke a traffic law. I shouldn't be off the hook just because you broke a different law that did not impact the facts of loss.

We hear similar complaints when a customer causes an accident while drunk, or texting, or driving recklessly. "You shouldn't insure people like that. Shame on you!" Well, the alternative is that they don't have insurance, which means the person complaining would really be screwed.

bringing up distracted drivers..........
it seems the auto makers are trying their best to cause this by the ever increasing screen size of the "infotainment" system that requires a bunch of screen touching to work almost every accessory.
and of course there are all of the "apps" your phone "needs" [?]..........

My question would be... Do insurance companies tempt you to switch to them with a low initial rate only to start a year or so later sneaking it up to where they want it at? I kind of expect rate increases these last couple of years since new cars/trucks prices have really jumped and repairing one after a collision has jumped also.

Not-a-charger: Many thanks for taking the time to school us on the insurance industry that is your expertise!

No, because if they accurately assessed the risk when they earned your business, they want you to stay with them as long as possible. It costs a lot of money to acquire new customers. The best customer an insurance company can have is a good existing customer. Retaining those customers is the top priority.

I don't think that's entirely true. Since Hanover decided to dump us they told me I won't be getting a discount for homeowners insurance. I'm shopping it around now. My brother's in the business so he looks for the best rate for us. If I have to go to USAA, so be it. I would like him to get the commission but if I have to move on he understands. Insurance is a big scam anyway. I have paid out of pocket having teenager bumps and bruises because generally nobody wants to get screwed by the insurance companies. I have $1000 deductibles and it's just not worth the aggravation or penance you pay for a mistake.

It is 100% true. Retention of good customers is king. It's emphasized every day across the company. Your insurer canceled your auto insurance because of you son's driving record. They don't care about keeping your homeowner's insurance because that's not much of a money maker for them.

So paying right around $7000 a year for their coverage for over 5 years wasn't enough? Insurance is a scam. It's when they have to pay out where they put you on assigned risk and screw you. Wreck a car, now we want your balls. SCAM! Plus they didn't care they were charging me for a car that was covered elsewhere.

Then self insure

I don't have that kind of money laying around. If I had millions I definitley wouldn't be in The Peoples Republic of New York.

Teaser rates are mentioned enough online and in person to me that I don’t think you can say it never happens. I’ve also been told by by more than one agent that they “can beat that rate” when they clearly cannot and do not. So I don’t think anybody can say for certain something is a given.

It is 100% true that they want to retain their good customers, and they don't do that by wildly increasing rates on those customers. I'm not saying that rates won't go up for any specific customer, but if an insurer earns your business, has your risk priced accurately, and you're a good customer, they want you to stay. By "good customer," I mean someone who pays their bill on time, has at minimum home and auto and preferably something else like boat/RV/motorcycle/etc, doesn't have a terrible driving record, doesn't leave a path of destruction in their wake. A ticket here, a fender bender there, and they're typically not doing a whole lot with your rate if you meet this description.

A few questions so that I can respond accurately:

- You were paying $7,000/year combined for home/auto?
- After your auto was canceled, you went into the assigned risk pool?
- How did they manage to insure a car that you had already insured with another company?
- How much were the payouts on your son's claims?

$7000 is a rough estimate for four cars, 2018 RDX, 2021 RX-350, 2019 MDX and a 2011 MDX. Two drivers under 22. Homeowners comes with the mortgage. Charger is with Hagerty. The 2018 RDX was replaced with a 2020 RDX, which I paid off with the settlement.

I'm not swimming in the pool yet, couldn't come up with another term after we got the notice.

I would like to know how they continued to charge me when i sent them the plate surrender form. I wasn't getting the mail 1400 miles away. USAA was my provider in Arkansas because Hanover isn't licensed there. $1960 a year.

The payout was about 21,565. The jeep was $2000. Had I known what happened I would have paid out of pocket, he didn't realize he did it. It's moot anyway because all of the cars are titled in my name. Except the 19 MDX.

I thought our governator changed that about 2 years ago?? No longer unlimited medical - just like all other states now???

James, give Grundy a call. They are AIG Insurance. Trust me - call them. We have 3 "driver" vehicles insured, and our 2016 Challenger Scat Pack, and two Cudas. I think I'm paying around $4200.00 a year.

It's still available, just optional. Definitely an improvement over the old law, but the affects of the old law will linger for a long time.

Good call My car went up 13% Truck 8% house 23.7% so just under 20% total. My total cost is still only $2321 so hard to change for that.

Had to bring this back up. I had been with Am Fam for 28 years. last year they jumped my homeowners premium 35% . This I was told was due to a
due to a claim for a leaky dishwasher that took out the kitchen floor. So I jumped ship to an independent my sister uses that was a total flake IMO.
He set me up with nationwide. I'm not even going to mention the jerk around on the business policy that evolved so we'll just stay with the cars and home policies. My renewal rates just came in 🤬🔥👎💥🧨😡



Auto 1121.36 to 1331.0 +19.6% [u]That's with the purported 35-40% Smart Drive 💩 discount. W/O the actual increase is closer to 60%
House 1867.62 to 3405.57 +82.4
totals 3178.66 to 4939.36 +55.39%

I also need to jump on here again. Found out that AAA used a picture of the tarp over our new garage during a summer rainstorm to claim we were behind on deferred maintenance to cancel us. Got that straightened out, BUT found out in the process that we had been woefully underinsured for 25 years due to incorrect information that we NEVER saw. Bathroom count was wrong, number of corners was wrong, bedroom sizes wrong, HVAC system wrong (never mind that every house built in the San Joaquin Valley wince the 1960s has central heat and air and our house was built in 1980), exterior material was wrong, flooring was wrong, etc. So, the premium went up, but we also added garage square feet and fixed the errors. So, I guess since we were underinsured all that time and didn't have a claim we actually came out ahead, but that's a gamble I wouldn't take willingly.

Wow. Just wow. We have the following insured for $250,000/$500,000, liability only:

2012 Tribeca
2010 Dodge 2500 Cummins
1998 Dodge 2500 Cummins
1975 International 1700 dump truck
1967 Belvedere

Total for a year is right at $1000.

I'm going through a bit of that right now. Not so much on the house or cars but with the business policy the same agent wrote. I have switched agents and they are going over everything. The business policy did not cover customers cars as I was told it did. Many unscrupulous agents will cut things to sell you a policy