'4 door Barracuda' goes to auction

www.hemmings.com/stories/four-door-...elqonOHzLY3-hnDEUiN-hGwcDDeBSq91PjOpw9Xg

I don't like it. Roofline and proportions are weird. I certainly respect the creativity, time, and talent involved in creating it though.

Yeah, the roof lines still have too much of the Satellite that it began as.

Talked with Mr. Walden during and just after the car's build. To say that he was committed to bringing this one to life was an understatement. "Hell-bent" is more like it. I didn't feel like I was talking with a gearhead, more like an artist. I agree, visually the car is off to me. But you have to admit that he went full-kill in bringing the car to life.

I’ll guess it brings about $150k.

Saw that on my Hemmings feed; it'll be interesting to see what it brings, but it's really gonna take the right situation to bring big money, I think.

The windows have always bugged me - the side glass being much taller than the windshield - and given the amount of effort expended everywhere else, I'm still surprised they did that.
Of course, it's easy to be a Monday Quarterback, but given the high bar Walden set everywhere else, that's still a mystery to me.

Yeah, like all auctions it takes at lease two people with money who really want it to get the price up….and that may not happen with this car.

They didnt turn a barracuda into a 4dr, they used a 4dr 72 coronet and grafted cuda front and rear onto it. Thats why it doesnt look right

The term "Steaming Dung Pile" comes to mind. I am being generous.

its got a roof line like herman munsters head

Dart 500, I'm well aware of the car's construction - in fact, they made the windshield opening smaller.
That's why the roof looks like an ambulance or hearse conversion.
But to my eye, the height of the side windows is the root cause of the disproportion.
They did SO much work everywhere else, it's unfortunate that they missed the greenhouse proportions.

Dave had about $350K in this build....no idea what Gary payed for it, but will be interesting to see what it brings

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EXACTLY...EXCELLENT analogy.

With no rear seat passenger headroom, should have made it a Cuda Sportwagon, or better yet left it alone, fugly IMO What could be uglier.............oh a 4-door Mustang

Others have already discussed the unfortunate styling issues, which the car has in abundance.


It is fundamentally a car that made no sense for C/P to build only to complete with a sister car the upcoming 4 door 1971 Satellite.

Dave put on a good show at Carlisle; showing the car on a lift, handing out free tee shirts, and handing out free full size phantom 1970 4door Barracuda brochures.

I can certainly appreciate the effort.

But that is one fugly car

Reminds me of the Super Guppy...

From the build notes..........



Look at the 1972 Road Runner and/or Sebring and you will see the lower windshield configuration
in the design of that Factory 2 door vehicle. Our 4 door Barracuda appearance is almost identical.






With all due respect, its not identical, almost or otherwise.

I can more than appreciate the work that went into this, but as so many others have said, the side glass ruins it.

Good Grief. Even the mo do Nova looks better.

'
No, the number was closer to $600,000.

It always amazes me to see someone put this much time, effort and money into something that turns out this bad. I can't see how anyone thinks those high side windows look good in proportion to the lower windshield. A for craftsmanship but F for design and execution.

Duly noted, but why not use a 4-door Coronet rather than a 2-door fuselage B-Body?

Why even bother wasting time on something like this. Rather see a two door conversion of a 4 door instead. Note to self: 4 door cars are not as desirable as 2. Today's auto makes forgot all about that! Look what they did to that thing they call a charger.

He tried something with his own money, at least he tried. Interesting project, not what I would have done, but I do plenty of things others wouldn't do. To each their own. I think it will do better than pure mopar think it will. Likely to be bought by a broad collector who has a museum that wants an centerpiece to pull people in. I was on the bad end of that a year or two ago. I was after a car that I felt like I had a good shot at winning. Concept car, but really ugly. It went stratospheric, 3x over any realistic estimate. I spoke with the auction house later as they know me well and asked where it went. It was this exact situation. This was going to be their center piece so the price wasn't relative for them.

Will be interesting either way. There are a ton of wing cars going as well, but all of these cars have reserves I believe. Which means we'll see bids to within 10% of that reserve In hopes of grabbing someone so they can lift the reserve. Will be a fun auction.

Doesn't display ANY attractive traits of the 2 door Barracuda. Four door Malibu, Nova, Satellite, Lemans Skylark etc had the good looks of their 2 door brethren. Looks like a home made taxi cab in Cuba.

Dave would have been better off making a 4 door Barracuda CONVERTIBLE.

"Good hands -- Bad taste in cars."

All this brings me to think about the MOD TOP CUDA.

Is it sitting in some ultra wealthy art-ish collectors private compound weather here in the USA, Europe or some Arab State?

Many odd people in this world with loads of money that want the one thing others cant have with little re guard to societies rules that most of us live by.

This thing is fugly but one of a kind and done well and I agree the selling price might shock us all. A lot of collectable "Art" is not attractive but sure has value.

I like it but also do think many will get to enjoy it . I am one that hopes that it works out to where a museum gets it so that can can happen.
Be interesting to see how the dollars a pile up when bidding starts

I also liked the few station wagon Challengers that guys built back in the day.
I know some hated Challenger Wagons guys built. But would be a cool car to take to Home Depot or Sams Club for a few items.

Just remember, if the superbird or Daytona was never made and 50 yrs later someone made "the car Mopar should have made to win NASCAR", I'd venture to say folks would have laughed at the attempt.

I don't think it looks bad when you compare it to 4 door versions of other cars like a 70 b bodies. The rear roof line is actually pretty similar, so I'd think you would have seen some consistency across the different models.

While I wholly appreciate everything that went into this build, too much of it just doesn't work. I can think of a couple other one-of-nones that could have been built, that would have been way cooler. A four door 71 Satellite Sebring Plus with buckets, console, rally dash, and a 340 auto would have been pretty skookum.

With the door handles and such it reminds me more of an AMC Matador. I can appreciate the build and effort into this one though.

While not a 4dr, you get the idea......

Pretty obvious that incline on the rear quarter body line that makes the Cuda so attractive killed any chance of a decent mo door car.

I don't know the height difference between buckets and bench seats, but the pics 'tater posted show the huge difference of space from seat back to roof between the two. The more I look, the more I see.........

The guy had a vision, albeit one that only he shared. He spent years and a small fortune bringing it to fruition only to pass away two years later. Sad as the car is hideous. I would have rather spent that time with my family and dogs (not necessarily in that order ) rather than creating an abomination.

If I had the money, I'd buy it and turn it into a 2 door.

is this the worlds most expensive parts car?

I’d part it out...😀

Yes

I just threw up in my mouth a little ...

Sadly they dropped the ball when it came to the roof line, the rendering that gave him the idea looks more like a car Chrysler would of built.

I guess this makes me a hater

Worse than the roof is the imaginary VIN & all the fake documentation made for the car.

FALSE.
To some "elite snob", this may be a popular opinion.
It was a fantasy so why not go full tilt with that theme? It was HIS vision, his FANTASY and whatever story he tied to it for the sake of supporting the fantasy , it wasn't meant to be accepted as an original.

If somebody asked me that between Barry and Dave Walden which one was the “elite snob” the answer would be obvious. And both of those individuals have done more for the Mopar hobby than you or I will ever do.

WHY?

OH! So I guess by owning 3 original 1970 4-doors, A, B & C bodies that all have real documentation somehow makes me an 'elite snob'?

Please keep in mind that he had brain cancer? It affected him.

Regardless of the build, I don't see any benefit in the thread degenerating into name-calling.

I can understand Barry's point of view as far as #s and documentation, as that's his focus in building his site, which is as solid a reference and authority as there is.
I can understand Dave's desire to do a "what if" car after clearly building a few of the most accurate restorations extant.
I don't think anyone believes the 4-door Barracuda is a "real" car, in the sense that Chrysler built it, and to me the "documentation" is fanciful and obviously builder-created.
Heck, everything about the car is well-documented as a flight of fancy. Walden's business was all about dead-accurate details, so I doubt he had any intention of creating a fraud.

while I agree there are things about the overall look of the car that does not fit. I as someone who handles body and paint daily I have the most respect for the build as a whole. The skills to bring it to life be it correct looking or not are mad skills. To build it and have it look like it should have rolled off the transport in 1970 is impressive. Having watched his other builds and seeing what he brought to the hobby was second to none. He had a passion for making things as correct as he could possibily do. If they failed he set out to correct that failure. With this car I can only imagine had he not passed away that HE would have tried to out do this car or even maybe correct the issues that people pointed out. May he rest in peace.
corey

I do agree that the workmanship is superb, second to none. I was truly a vison of Daves.

What roof did he use and why? The drip rail moldings are so much higher than the windshield moldings, and the side windows are way to big
Its not proportioned correctly.

I hope it goes to a good home. I'm guessing it will fetch 100k

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What roof did he use and why? The drip rail moldings are so much higher than the windshield moldings, and the side windows are way to big
Its not proportioned correctly.

Dart500 mentioned it in this very same post earlier......

They didnt turn a barracuda into a 4dr, they used a 4dr 72 coronet and grafted cuda front and rear onto it. Thats why it doesnt look right

Dave took a lot of heat for the roofline. In multiple instances, he defended his decision based on the belief that rear seat passengers shouldn't have to stoop down to safely get into the back seat.
In his defense, most classic cars that had a 2 door and 4 door model DID use a taller roof or at least utilized the common post sedan roofline which was taller than the 2 door coupe models.
Still, he did take it too far. The roofline on the car does remind me of a hearse. I'm sure he had some occasional thoughts about which way he should have gone.

I think that even if he did come around and agree that the roof looked odd, he wouldn't have been able to admit that it was a design flaw. He was in too deep and his pride was in the way.
I PM'd the guy a few times and did appreciate the skills he had. Guys like him do push the limits in many ways. People like that will inspire some and annoy others. The world was a better place with him around though.

Loving moparts nowadays. Guys, this car is grotesque. Regardless of time and money put into it. But thats my opinion and to each his own. Let this mans soul rest in peace, and move on shall we?

If you don't care for this discussion, move on. If others want to discuss it, who are you to steer the narrative?

Personally, I don’t believe there was ever any proposal to build a 4-door E-body. If you look at John Herlitz’s clay models during 1967 & 1968, he was designing a 2-door from the start. By December of 1967, the clay model was close to the final design: https://www.johnherlitz.org/e-body_barracuda.html

JMHO, a 4 door, especially a sedan (door posts) pony car would have been a HUGE sales flop and hurt the two door sales. At that time sporty & performance were not synchronous with 4 doors.

What about all those 4 door Mustangs and Camaros from back then, oh wait...
Sorry, it was just a dumb idea all around.

the last pictures appear to be actual cars. Curious if those cars exist or were crushed? Anyone know?

It is funny how when you see a prototype they didn't choose, you often see why they went with the design that they did.
This looks like taillights from a Ford Galaxie:

Yeah, I saw a Ford rearend treatment there too.

Corey - those would be 1:1 clays, built on a framework and covered in Di-Noc tp appear painted.
They'd do each side differently, and re-do them as the desire arose.
Not sure of the basic bucks were adjustable for wheelbase/length/width, or how they did that.

That's a fascinating site - Herlitz had chops ! And the RR/Bee cartoon was very funny...

And I suppose his family or friends had no say in what he was spending hugh money on.
Then he should have donated all that money to cancer research.

they sure look like real cars

https://www.johnherlitz.org/e-body_barracuda.html

Yeah, those two certainly do - but note that many have no interiors, steering wheels, or undercarriage.
I guess those two might be hand-built prototypes, and possibly operational ?
Note the side markers appear undecided upon. But yeah, frame rails and interiors...hmmm...

They sure do and I would think those are drivers as they have what appear to be balanced wheels with wheel weights on the rims you can see. Yes that doesn't mean much but it would to the styling department for show. Also the second one has a radio antenna does that mean a metal fender??

I was $40,000 high…it just sold for $110,000. Reports of a small earthquake measured at Dave Walden’s gravesite.

I think that if someone like Dave Walden wanted to make a 4 door 70 Barracuda OK.

IMHO a 71-72 4 door Plymouth Satellite looks better and has a more attractive price point.

Its ugly

If you know any of the back story, it was Dave Walden's wife (a nurse from what I was told) that told Steven Juliano that he needed to be checked out for pancreatic cancer as she saw the signs in him which led to his diagnosis.

I'm sure that Dave knew the end was coming, but not all cancer is treatable.

Dave spent his money on whatever pleased him. What's wrong with that?

Personally, he had issues with anger to put it nicely..

I read somewhere that he had over $600.000 in the build. I don't know how that is possible.

He started a thread about the car on Yellowbullet and had a major meltdown when the mainly GM and Ford fans didn't love his creation.

The car is hideous,I can't believe it even brought that much money.

What almost was:

Tooling for custom made parts isn't cheap.

I called it the top hat Barracuda,and Dave was pissed at me! Maybe the new owner can use it to drive the Pope around in! Maybe Worman bought it,he raved on and on about how great he thought the car was on his show! The roof isn't high enough for his head to fit in it! Lol!

Man, some of you guys are harsh. After reading some of the sanctimonious comments in this thread, you'd think that he was spending your money and making you do the work on it...

The man had a vision and he managed to follow it through before he passed. Have some respect for that.

Many of us will likely leave our families with a bunch of cars and car stuff that our families will have to deal with later... it's not uncommon. And our families will likely only get a fraction out of it from what we spent on the junk - I've seen some cases where it all just went to the scrap yard. A life's worth of collecting, all scrap metal to go into the next electric Hyundai... think about it.

Regardless... on the topic of the 4-door Barracuda itself, I'm sure the idea was tossed around at the product planning/styling dept. brainstorming sessions, even if it never made it to clay. Ford and GM were considering it, why wouldn't the Chrysler Corp.?

If I were brainstorming this project, I would have aimed the marketing at somebody who really wanted a sporty car like a Barracuda, and not a tall frumpy looking sedan (otherwise they could just have bought a Satellite and called it a day). The concept drawing that was floating around at the time of a 4 door hardtop with low roofline seemed like a more likely candidate, rather than where Dave ended up going. Just my opinion, but the end result looked like what might have happened if the engineers won their argument over the styling department, and upper management insisted on more headroom for back seat passengers (and perhaps better structural integrity as offered by a sedan vs a hardtop).

Here's the drawing that was floating around (which I thought would more likely have been what Chrysler would have pursued):


For me, it was interesting. I followed the build online and was amazed at the workmanship and attention to detail that was put into it... even if I didn't really like the final result aesthetically. It only adds to the hobby as far as I'm concerned, and I really have no time for anyone who wants to cut a guy down (especially after he's dead) for following his dream and vision, even if it's not what I would do (not that I would ever have the ability to take on a project like this, to such a high level).

Just my , FWIW.

The factory drawings that fortunately never made production. Atleast they got the roofline right.

If you do something wrong,no matter how much detail you put into it at the end of the day it's still wrong. The right way to do it was to use the Cuda roof,extend it using the center of a second Cuda roof,cut the door window frames off the Coronet doors and have glass made to fit the roof properly. If anyone could have pulled this off correctly it was Dave,his company makes glass. He decided to do it the easy way using the stock Coronet glass and door window frames that in no way align with the roof line of a Cuda. He should have done the pillarless model with the right roofline like the drawing. Then he got pissed off at everyone who called him out on the car for the roof looking effing goofy,well it does look effing goofy. The roof lines of the two cars aren't even close,and the curved A pillars that get wider as they go up look like crap against the Cuda straight windshield moldings that end six inches below the side glass height!

Chargervert, I am overwhelmed at the just pure meanness that you inflict on others. Even the dead.

It's not meanness it is just stating the obvious facts on the build. All of Daves other restorations were top notch OEM gold quality builds as were the products he made and offered to our hobby. Dave's passing is truly a loss to everyone involved in the hobby. This build however was a swing and a miss.

never saw it from that angle. my god that is bad. it really is the perfect example of just because ya can doesn't mean you should.

The rear window is even worse.

My post should not be taken as meanness,it should be taken as reconstructive criticism,because I just laid out the complete blueprint for the new owner on how to fix the car and make it look like a car the factory actually would have built. Plus this can be achieved with minimal paintwork on the tops of the doors and most of the work would be under the vynal top.

Pete, I didn't read into your comments as mean to Dave, just critical of the design.
To some, any critical words aimed toward a dead person will be thought of as disrespectful.
I came to Dave's defense on several car forums when others criticized him. He and I shared PMs at DodgeCharger,com. I still have them.
I never lied to him but I also never told him that I didn't care for the design. I told him that I strongly disapprove of people that criticize others when they themselves have zero talent and no balls to go after what they want.
That is the truth. Both can exist: A disapproval of the design but a strong approval for the craftsmanship.

As I said above KD,Losing Dave was a big loss to the hobby. I broke down the build,and stated that Dave had the means and access to get the right glass made for the car. Nothing against the craftsmanship,more so about the approach. I have things on my own builds that I would do different if I were to do them again. We learn and improve as we progress in the hobby. Dave set his own bar so high that people were left baffled by this build.

I didn't take your comments as meanness, actually. There's a difference between constructive criticism of one's work and actual shots at his character. IMHO some cross the line and I don't have a problem with calling it as such. Everybody has a right to their opinion, and I posted my honest thoughts on it, whether people agree with them or not. As far as how his family felt about it or what he should have spent his money on or whatever, that's just BS IMHO, and that's what I was talking about.

HEY!! Serious question time, where did he get all the weather stripping for the doors? My wagon needs some......

Interested in the answer to this question too.

Thank you,

Mike.

If i had more money than brains I'd buy it, cut the roof off it and make it a proper 4 door hardtop. I remember controversy when it was being built but I never paid attention, looking at it now - man does it ever look wrong, and I assume the builder knew that but was too $$$ invested to turn around.

I wasn't trying to be a jerk about it,but I was spelling out what was clearly done wrong and what was needed to make it right. Every car Dave had done before was OEM Gold level,which is not something that is easily achievable.!

not to pile on the wheelbase missed the mark also .....

1970
A - Duster 2dr 108" - Valiant 4dr 108"
B - Belvedere 2dr/4dr 116" & station wagon 117"
C - Fury 2dr/4dr 120" & station wagon 122"
E - Barracuda 2dr 108" & ECS 4dr 120"

I just found out today that the car sold at the auction for $121,000. I didn't think it would sell for that much

I asked my friend who knows the seller of the car,why he bought the car in the first place,he said he like weird cars that are different,I said that one sure fits that description perfectly!

I'm not convinced they had a bid at 100k. They opened around 300 and started dropping of course. They stayed FOREVER at 100k asking 110. As soon as they got 110, it was a pretty quick hammer. I was hoping it would get hung just to see what they'd do.

It sounds like someone got stuck with that monstrosity!

Unfortunately

Was the guy who sold it this weekend the second owner? If the builder had $600K in it how much did this guy pay and how bad was his loss at the auction, or was it a buyback?