Tesla plaid on the street

Cant wait for the 4 motor 2024 charger that will spank this thing

Bunch Of Morons. Particularly at night with traffic

Takes a caged up 10.5 outlaw car to beat one (end)
- you're looking at the future whether you like it or not

Tesla has an 11 yr headstart, and is worth 15x that of Stellantis and 5x that of Dodge. Better chance of Dodge getting sold again than their first big attempt at a EV spanking whatever Tesla has in 2023/24.

Enjoy your golf cart. Quiet and fast is boring to me.

And Tesla still hasn't figured out how to run an assembly line, but boy Musk sure can dance and sing. Over valued and once the real manufacturers get cranked up Tesla's valuation will drop into the toilet.

If you park it in the garage life can get real exciting...

100%. When I was a kid, the sound of a fast car was the main thing that attracted me to them. It's still my favorite thing about them today. Take that away and it's ruined. Doesn't matter how fast it is.

I thought this was going to be about the "band". Tesla is coming to the Iowa state fair in a week or so.

Year Production
2017 100,757
2018 254,530
2019 365,232
2020 509,737

You're making the same mistake the domestics did with the imports in the 80's. We all know how that ended up.

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.

Summed up succinctly.

A race is a race. What odd things have we raced in our lives? Never raced a go cart or three wheeler with your dirt bike as a youth? Which makes me think of the old three wheeler guys seeing the new quads. We dont need four wheels!

So when one is out in there old street muscle if the EV driver that just smoked you was going vroom vroom as he drove away from you would it lesson the sting?

How do you think all the greasers from the Flathead era felt about the muscle car movement...... That dam new junk.....

How about the gas powered car vs the flippin horse? Where the hell do I feed the hay in at?

Get with the times or get left behind as sad as it is.

But this isn't just fast, its insanely fast. Low-mid 9's as you drive it to the market - a nice rumbly car that loud most likely wouldn't be fun to drive around on the street. And (according to Motor Trend) "the Plaid launches so ferociously hard, it generates more than 1.00 g from 0.2 second to 2.6 seconds after launch, peaking at 1.227 g at 32 mph". Sounds fun to me

The Rimac does 8's but its multi-millions, I think 8 seconds at a more reasonable price aren't far off.

What sting? There is always someone faster. It wouldn't sting to get beat by a $130,000 car that someone put their blood, sweat and tears into, why would there be sting in getting beat by a $130,000 car that someone has nothing in but a payment book? I feel the same way about people that are proud they were able to do what everyone else was doing and somehow feel special about it. If you are impressed by them, by all means be impressed. But there's no need to try to convince me why I should be impressed by something that doesn't fit my lifestyle in any way just because it is fast and expensive.

Tesla is just a bunch of layed off Chrysler engineers from 2008. Dodge by all means will show up with something better, something so insane you'll probably need to pass some course or have a special license to drive it. They said they're bringing an "all conquering" muscle car and I believe them.

We're going to start seeing with cars what we already see with fighter jets where the limiting factor isn't the craft, but the meatbag piloting the thing.

.....but will they be able to bring it to market in any significant quantity? People that like to throw shade on Tesla ignore the fact that now only have they been building out their production, but also their supply chain. They're smart enough not to be reliant on others for their batteries. Besides, Tesla's engineering is arguably on par if not superior to that of the rest of the auto makers. They laughed at them as a foolish oddity and now they're an actual competitor. The hubris in this is funny.

I dont know about motors but they'll be building their own batteries. They will have 2 or 3 plants dedicated to battery production and have a lot of money set for developing sold state batteries, with those you'll see 1000-2000+ mile ranges, no fires and faster charge times

get comfy.

I am seeing a lot of Tesla's around here now and people are talking about them.

.............OMG!

Bet me

Chrysler sold more in Q4 2020 than Tesla sold all of 2020, yawn.

And Chrysler is going to donkey stomp them in every aspect - 1/4 mile, tech, engineering - they are the dark horse with better EVERYTHING

We get it, you're an EV fan boy.

I'd bet you have the newest smart phone also.

That doesn't mean that the people here who love cars that have an internal combustion engine are ever going to be.

Electric vehicles just change where the pollution comes from, it puts it on the coal fired power plants rather than directly on the car. It's the big green lie.

EV's won't be a good viable replacement for anyone who doesn't live in a warm climate city where they do minimal driving.

EV's are useless in a cold climate, the range is cut drastically and who wants a car that decides when you can or can't have a heater in winter.

There are a ton here in New Jersey, I see as many of them per day as any other car We have the infrastructure for it regarding charging stations and everything is relatively close for driving, that's why they work well here.

No Sir, it does not.

SNK-EYZ said: "Electric vehicles just change where the pollution comes from, it puts it on the coal fired power plants rather than directly on the car. It's the big green lie."
The pollution starts with the lithium mining process in areas that pollute and victimize workers like no greenie will acknowledge. Then from there the factories that make the battery are allowed to spew pollution into the planet. Then the car is sold in the states and will be plugged into some coal or other fossil fuel electrical grid. People should buy an electric car because they want an electric car. NOT BECAUSE IT IS GREEN. Big joke that people feel their helping the environment by buying an EV.

since 2014 , elect generated from coal is down almost 50pct going into 2020, and will be over 50pct this year- where do u get your numbers from?????

Couldn't agree more! Was at our local cruise in Weds night having a cold one watching/listening to all the big cammed iron rumbling in and out, still puts a big grin on my face! Thought to myself....man it's going to suck when car shows are all electric......boring as hell!!

They always put on a great show. Frank Hannon is a great guitar player.

Here in the Missouri most of the electric power-plants are coal fired with one nuclear and some other sources depending in where you live.

Ohh absolutely. The pollution for the so called green vehicles starts with the lithium mining and all through the process of manufacturing the electric vehicle.
They also forget that the car is a massive polluter when the batteries have to be disposed of.

I don't get it? The buick might run 13.99999 and the z06 might run 11's. This guy removed the seats and it ran a 9.08 (they run 9.20's bone stock at 150+MPH)

Yeah that is kind of crazy. With a little more work that guy is going to be in the 8's.

I work with a guy who has a 9 second B body Mopar. He probably has $100K invested in the car and trailer. It has good parts and professionally built and it runs mid to low 9's as a door slammer. Cool car and he loves it but it is kind of freaky that some soccer mom in a Tesla could pull into the lane next to him and put him on the trailer. Just getting into the race car is a chore since you have to pull off the wheel and strap into the harness and wear a fire jacket and helmet and have some help cinching the belts and closing the swing out bar. And then he sits there and sweats in the lane waiting to move forward. But soccer mom in the next lane could be sitting there with the AC blowing.

And then she would be told that she can't run because she's dripping condensation water from the A/C on to the track.
You're not allowed to run the A/C in the staging lanes or on the actual strip because it drips water onto the track.

EVERY track I know of has that as a rule.

What's not to get?

You're on a Mopar Forum pimping how great you think a Tesla is and most people don't care.

You shouldn't be shocked or surprised.
Many here don't want anything of the newer Chrysler products either.

There's faster stuff than a Tesla out there but most people here aren't going to want it either.

I thought this picture was sooo appropriate.

Lol someone that doesn't care sure is spending a lot of time in this thread! Triggered much?? No I am not a Tesla fan or an EV fan I just know whats coming and if it has 4 wheels I'll look into it. Now dont go revving your viper at said soccer mom

i ran a corvette a few yrs ago at E-town, n he def had a/c and was using it....

We are seeing them on August 20th in a little bar called Sideouts in Island Lake, IL! THE best bar band ever...

My question is what's going to happen to these things at the track because they have no bars in them at all? 9:XX car bouncing off the wall is going to do damage, plus anything over 150 needs a chute.

All someone needs to do is take a afternoon and email some tracks or the nhra and ask whats the scoop then folks would know.

Id bet they have something out already.

Well here is something.

http://www.nedra.com/nedra_handbook.html

New NHRA class for EV-s

https://www.hagerty.com/media/news/nhra-launches-new-ev-drag-racing-class-for-2022/

I'm retired (from Chrysler), so I have plenty of time to read and post on here.

If you think that people are more likely to look at a Tesla than a Viper whether they're driving or parked you need your head examined.

Funny how you skimmed right over the fact that this is a Mopar Forum but you keep posting about Teslas.

I get it. The future is here right now with Tesla. Our old Mopars are officially certified as slow & the ICE is destroying the planet. We’re Neanderthals, knuckle draggers and geriatrics if we like 50-year old cars. Soon enough, someone will plant a classic car on a totaled Plaid and that will irk people. Other than washing your Tesla on the weekend, what mods will you do? Take out the seats & gut the interior? How many people will buy a new $130k car, gut it and daily drive like that? Other than planting a Tesla drivetrain under a Mopar, we won’t be able to run 7’s in a daily driver. Question: Do we really need for a car to run 9’s all of the time?

I do find it interesting that my seven year old grandson calls out Tesla sightings when we are out just like Challengers, Corvettes, Mustangs, Camaros and Vipers.

All this talk and argument about 1/4 mile times plays right into Tesla's biggest (and only IMO) advantage at this point. Let's have a NASCAR type 500 mile race (even on a road course if you like) and see what finishes first. Common refueling (with a gas station type fuel pump and 93 octane unleaded) and recharging by a Tesla public charging station. No quick fill gravity fuel cans or pressurized (Indy car style) refueling, and NO changing of batteries. Just refueling and recharging as available to the average soccer mom or dad currently.....................now who is going to cross that 500 mile vacation finish line first and be sitting by the hotel pool having a drink watching the kids having a great time Me I'm not ready (and neither are EV's) for a vehicle that spends 25% of its trip time to recharge or refuel. When they (EV manufactures) get that sorted out the new wiget will be hydrogen power, and yeah so what if an EV is still quicker in a 1/4 mile, right now I want a longer leash and the sound and feeling of internal combustion. Funnier still is the most sold accessory on a motorcycle is an aftermarket exhaust system and one of the largest markets for aftermarket motorcycle exhaust system manufactures is HD..............Hey HD how's the EV Harley sales going...... If EV's are the sound of the future I'm not hearing it

Mike

Anyone with a new Prius - starting with a full charge and full tank of gas they can go 600 miles without refueling. But I'll pass on winning that way.

One or the other to compete, no hybrids.........either fossil fuel (aka gasoline) or EV not both in one vehicle, Prius is a hybrid and besides it's dog poop slow and would still lose to a 7 mpg big or small block dinosaur '60's muscle car and for sure lose in a drag race to 90% of most current cars.

Hydrogen will eventually kill straight EV's

The rumored Toyota Prius hydrogen variant could turn out as an innovation. The Mirai and the Nexo use a fuel cell in which a chemical reaction of the contained hydrogen with oxygen generates electricity, which powers an electric motor. The next-gen Prius could come with a combustion engine that generates power through the combustion of hydrogen using modified fuel supply and injection systems of gasoline engines.

Anyone that has ever had to deal with hydrogen knows it's leaky. Can that be overcome yep, not cheaply though.

what does it cost to recharge at those "pumps" i see at walmart ?

I think it depends on whose "pumps" they are.

It can be from more expensive than gasoline to free.

For example I think the new Mustang Mach-e's come with three years free charging at certain charging stations. I understand it covers quite a few of them.

I was just doing some googling and it seems to vary widely depending on who's pump, how fast it charges, where you live etc.

Yes I should have mentioned the local cost of electricity obviously has a lot to do with the cost.

I should add this is just from what I have read, I have no experience charging electric cars.

KA-BOOOOM , is sound u will hear in 10years at 6pm, when everyone comes home and plugs in their ev's

We have a Leaf and it costs about $3 to charge it at home. Goes 80 miles on a charge so the cost is roughly the same as a car that gets 80 mpg since gas is around $3 a gallon here for regular.

The car is very inexpensive to drive since there is zero maintenance. No oil changes, no exhaust system to rot out, no cooling system to maintain, no timing belt to replace, etc. Brakes last a super long time since a lot of slowing down is handled with the regen braking system.

What's the average recharging time to go from a very low to no charge battery to that 80 mile capable range? And did you have to install special charging devices in your home to do this? TIA.

Mike

I use a normal 110 plug in the garage and the stock charging cord that came with the car. It takes overnight to charge the car using 110v. That is really slow if you're in a hurry, but most of the time I just plug it in after dinner and then it is fully charged and ready to go in the morning.

If you want faster charging you can buy a 220V charger from the Leaf dealer (or on-line) and then use a dryer plug. The 220V charger cable is about $500 so I never bothered buying one. I don't have a 220V plug in my garage but I have them in the shop. I just never needed a quicker charging time so I never bothered to make the investment.

Ive been reading the new EV-s with the unit and install at home can be as much as $2500.

I was in Denver this weekend and my Uber ride from the airport was a Tesla Model Y. The owner was very educated about it. He said he gets an average of 275 miles of range and he does uber full time. He spent $300 to have a 220V outlet put in his garage that he charges with. He said if it is real low it takes a little over 8 hours. It was interesting to ride in, very quite, rode well, and it moved. He hammered on it for us before he dropped us off at the hotel. Quick and quiet with no Drama, didn't feel as fast at it was but it sure was rolling the numbers on the speedo.

Zero Maintenance for how long?
And what is the cost when it is required.
Or will it be a throw-away-car?

Nothing is zero maintenance. Might not have oil changes or similar, but you will need wheel bearings, shocks, wiper blades, etc at some point. But hey, let's not count that.

I think shock/strut quality has vastly improved, I've had a lot of cars and only the highest mile beater junk needed shocks. I just voluntarily ripped the perfectly working factory XREAS system out of my 06 4runner and replaced them with traditional Bilsteins, it has 150K.

The uber driver I mentioned earlier was on his second tesla, his first was a model 3. He said he has had to do nothing but tires. I don't know what mileage he had on them though.

Wait till a proper charging station is put in building codes. It will happen.

I've owned the car for four years and maintenance costs are zero so far. I bought the car used for $7500 and haven't put a dime into it since. Still looks like a new car and everything works on it.

All depends on how much electrical work is required. I spent zero for a charging station since I just used an existing 110v wall socket. I didn't have a 220v outlet in the garage and my garage isn't near the breaker box so it probably would've cost about $1000 to have an electrician pull 220v out to the garage thru the attic.

The new houses that they are building in our area all have 220v charger plugs in the garage now. It isn't required by code but the builders do it since it only costs a few bucks to pull the wire in new construction.

Count what? I haven't spent a dime on maintenance in the four years I've owned the car so that is zero. The tires are 7 years old now but they have a bit of tread left. The brakes still look good after 7 years of driving. Not sure what else I'd spend money on. Everything works, nothing is broken, nothing needs to be fixed. Seems like zero to me.

I guess it could? The charger is onboard the car, its just like an appliance that plugs in. To really jam the charge in one you would want 480 or something, I would expect some rules around that lol.

as i have several 220 plugs in my shop/garage, how many amp service does a charger require ?
i have two 50/60 amp welder sockets, plus one 30 amp for one compressor, and two 20 amp sockets that are the same size as 110 sockets, but have the standard [?] 220 blade arrangement so you can't plug in a 110 appliance.

My understanding is most EVs will use what ever is available up to about 50 amps.

After that you need something that bypasses the charger in the car and provides DC voltage directly. I imagine these are pretty expensive.

Home chargers use a 50 amp plug but most of them run at 32 amps. A few run at 40 amps. You just have to shop around and it also depends on the car. Some EVs only accept X amount of current thru the plug.

There-in is the issue...this car takes this charger....that car takes that charger.This charger will charge in 90 minutes.....this one in 9 hours. Needs to be some sort of standardization or it will never be accepted or will it be practical.

Do you guys think that like in California, that’s 1 million electrical cars plugged in that the power grid won’t go down?

I haven't been paid to solve that problem. I'm sure there is an engineering solution for that problem but I'm not so sure there is a political solution for the problem. From an engineering standpoint you just need to build enough generating capacity and transmission lines to distribute it. From a political standpoint someone needs to pay for it, someone needs to approve it and people need to allow the plants and transmission lines to be built near or across their property. Good luck with any of that, especially in CA.

Nuclear is the answer, they're called SMR's - small modular reactors

Zero chance that CA would approve a SMR.

Throwing a rod would have a whole new automotive meaning

it took bill maher '3' years to get his approval to start up his already installed solar panels... '3' years.... here in ny, it was under 3mos to contract/install and get the cert's for my solar... but then we have/had the luv-gov.... calif only has galvin...

EVs are impressive, if a bit bland.

They really need to work out the power grid to handle the massive demands if they want us to all change to electric. Then, disposal becomes an issue. Major issue. The pollution is still there but it comes at time of manufacture, disposal, and powering the generators.

One problem they haven't solved is range. My little C55 may not be as fast as a Plaid but I was able to drive it NYC to Dallas in a day and a half. 1700 miles in a weekend is a bit of a stretch for an EV.

I am guessing with a new Tesla that you would have spent two to three hours charging on that trip.

The overall impact could be less if meals, rest stops and lodging was coordinated with charging.

I don't think there is any doubt that to minimize the time needed for an over the road trip with an electric car requires planning.

It's 1546 miles from Dallas to NYC.

Plaid has a range of 390 miles, is things are optimal, they never are.

Assuming you can find Superchargers appropriately located it takes 51 minutes to charge from 5% to 95%. That brings the range down to 351 miles and adds another charge to get there for a total of 5 needed.

5 hours, roughly, of charge time. Making it a 27 hour drive vice a 22 hour one.

Making a two day trip, assuming 12 hours driving, 12 not driving, into a three day one. Add in another day in a hotel, plus food and whatnot.

around here, you can't put electronic junk in with your regular garbage. if you are caught by the garbage man, there is he77 to pay.
therefore, you have to wait until the county "decides" when they will have an electronics "disposal" day.
so if you can't get rid of your junk cheapo big screen, or your computer parts, until the county "decides" a day is appropriate to do so, good luck with your junk electric car parts..........["batteries not included...." ]

I based my numbers on Tesla saying you can add 200 miles in 15 minutes. That declines as the battery "fills up".

Total charging time can be reduced by stopping more often and not fully charging the battery.

Lots of strategies, for example no reason not to leave the house fully charged.

If stopping for a meal you might charge longer than what would otherwise be optimal.

Last charge you just need to charge enough to get home.

Of course be advised I have never even ridden in a EV!

Lots of Tesla claims in the past have been well overstated, till I see a third party confirm that I'll decline to accept it.

This also assumes there is a Supercharger station available every 200 miles.



How will that affect battery life? I know certain chemistries do not like that.



I am not an idiot, that assumption was built into my calculations.



Assuming there's a Supercharger station available.



Last charge is just prior to arrival in NYC, still need to drive around there and since you're a visitor, there is no charging at home.

My calculations are just from Dallas to NYC as per Feet's statement, does not include the return trip, double everything for that. Furthermore I assumed zero wait time to charge. Doesn't matter is you want to try the 15 minute alleged quick charge f all the chargers are taken up by people doing the 51 minute charge.

Using Tesla's very own Supercharger planning site, estimated time to make the trip exceeds my own. 29 hours, 8 minutes.

https://www.tesla.com/trips#/?v=MS_2020_Performance&o=Dallas,%20TX,%20USA_Dallas%20Dallas%20County%20TX@32.7766642,-96.79698789999999&s=&d=New%20York,%20NY,%20USA_New%20York%20NY%20US@40.7127753,-74.0059728

Note it has you crossing the Mississippi on I40, bad routing there. My advice there is to charge up completely at your last stop in AR as you will be sitting in stop and go traffic for a substantial amount of time if you go that route.

As a comparison, same route via google maps for a gas car, 23 hours, 21 minutes.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Dallas,+TX/New+York,+NY/@36.6679328,-89.8930242,6z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x864c19f77b45974b:0xb9ec9ba4f647678f!2m2!1d-96.7969879!2d32.7766642!1m5!1m1!1s0x89c24fa5d33f083b:0xc80b8f06e177fe62!2m2!1d-74.0059728!2d40.7127753

I'm sure those words were spoken about propane, natural gas and maybe even pocket cigarette lighters but it got figured out. Back in 1999 I was in Munich, Germany and saw several hydrogen powered BMW's running around town and the very strict Germany TUV and government didn't seem to have a problem with them. It will get worked out and be just as safe as your propane gas grill, gas/propane stove/oven, gas/propane HVAC home system and be much more convenient than charging a battery. Hydrogen/EV hybrid is the real future IMO....it's not too far around the corner.

Toyota Will Build Fuel Cell Drivetrains In Kentucky From 2023



https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/ent...023/ar-AANKnD4?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531

You dont want hydrogen unless you want 200hp muscle cars again like 1977. No energy in the fuel. Answer is EV and solid state batteries, set the power you need from 300-1300 and have a max 3000 mile range.

No batteries for me, I'm still a mechanical kind of guy...........still wearing an Omega mechanical wrist watch and cut with a gas powered Stihl chainsaw and mow the grass with a gas powered JD mower.....................................just no soul in an EV for me. It's still an art to make a watch tick mechanically as it is to make an internal combustion engine hum and produce a sound like a great musical instrument. The rest of the world can and will move on to lots and lots of EV's and that's okay and needs to happen...I'll try to hang on to my love of all things mechanical and treat it as I do now, as a HOBBY. Don't care to have a 1300 HP (or kw) golf cart that most anyone can drive by pushing a go pedal. Getting somewhat back to the original post, as I said right now everyone is making a big deal out of performance of a vehicle in a mere one thousand, three hundred and twenty feet.......whoppy ding

Enjoy it, I hate working on cars/engines anymore. I have an electric vacuum that autonomously cleans and goes back to its docking station, an e-cig helped me quit smoking and I have an e-bike that gets me out riding again and feels the same as I did as a 12 year old on my XR80. Yeah, I'll take an electric Mopar muscle car too. Why would I want to have any of this stuff break down and fix it? Screw that. They'll know it broke (not mechanically) and fix it while I sleep automatically. I'll own a vintage muscle car, as a garage toy conversation piece as some have trophy horses (as muscle mopars have already been for 30 years) I had a 392 8 years ago, yawn....do you?

I think everyone here gets it that you're an EV Fan Boy along with obviously being a Fan Boy of every new tech toy out there.

Does it bug you that much that many here don't feel the same way?????

It must, because you keep championing EV's so much even after being told the majority here don't want one.

An example of the penalties of RUSHING a product (That no one wants) to market:
https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-cars/a37367026/gm-recalls-all-chevy-bolts-battery-fire-risk/

i thought the 1/4 mile was now `1000feet..,.

To be fair, this is GM we are talking about. They have trouble creating a steering column that does not kill people, let alone something as technical as an EV.

Gee, back in 99 you saw some hydrogen vehicles running around, here it is 2+ decades later and still none in production. At that rate if they ever solve the issue we will all long be dead and some archeologist will be digging us up as specimens.

I used to work in semiconductors and we used hydrogen for various things. We already know how to seal it, but it's not cheap. Heck, what powered the Saturn rockets into space when I was a kid? Hydrogen. Problem is that hydrogen is the smallest atom out there, so it likes to leak. You can't say that about propane, natural gas, butane or any other gas.

The issue isn't safety, hydrogen dissipates faster than any other fuel out there. The issue is not having fuel because it leaked away on you if everything isn't perfect.

So the 200hp internal combustion engines in "muscle cars" of 1977 did that on the same unlead premium fuel available then that makes 400hp to 600+hp in the muscle cars of today.............looks like someone figured it out. Can't understand how you can blame the 1977 fuel on the 200hp and not the lower compression, electronic engine management systems, catalytic restricted exhaust systems, etc., all regulated by the EPA and CARB to get CLEANER running motor vehicles that a hydrogen engine would have to incorporate. Apples to Oranges.

Someone will figure out how to get performance out of hydrogen.................

Using a V12 from the 760i modified to run on hydrogen and a very slippery body with a drag coefficient of .21, this BMW car set nine FIA certified hydrogen combustion records:


(and then there's always "American ingenuity" and I'll take my bet on US to figure out how to make hydrogen a performance fuel )

I see it's empty. Provide a listing of available production hydrogen powered cars and light trucks and their costs.

Toyota supposedly makes one, but it's not available. Hey, I can play that game too. I make a hydrogen powered half ton that get 500 MPGe, but it's not available.

In the software world that's called vaporware.

I recently bought my son a $3,800 Nissan Leaf with a nearly new battery to drive to High School. Normally when I get a car its time to go through it and replace spark plugs, oil, trans and air filter, etc... There was nothing to do with this car. Going to the gas station is plugging it in to the house. Its not my cup of tea, but I get the attraction with almost zero maintenance, instant torque and no gas - and gas is around $4 a gallon here right now.

Never said it's here, just saying it's coming.........how long has it been for pure EV's to get to this point and they still have issues with range and recharge time. Hydrogen fuel would solve those issues.


yes but the point is that the hydrogen "pump" is next to a gasoline pump at a "gas station" that there are thousands of those "stations" already in place and have been for decades. How tough would it be to install at least one hydrogen pump at one out of every ten gas stations? Sure you can recharge at home but not if you're traveling............forgot no one does that anymore.

You can convert any gas engine to run on hydrogen, you can even make your own hydrogen but it wont be making anywhere near the power it did on gasoline. Hydrogen = poof, gasoline = Bang

Please feel free to explain why it would make less power if it make 3 times as many BTU's as gasoline????

https://h2energynow.com/wordpress/news2/

From the link......

Hydrogen

Why Hydrogen

Cool Facts about Hydrogen

Hydrogen gas = 61,493 BTU per pound versus 20,900 BTU’s per pound of gasoline about four times more than gasoline.
Hydrogen and electricity are complimentary and one can be easily converted into the other.
Hydrogen can be stored as a gas, liquid, or part of a metal polymer called a liquid hydride.
One third of capital costs of conventional fossil fuel power plants are because of pollution control systems.

Hydrogen Production

Hydrogen is an energy carrier, not an energy source. Energy is required to separate it from other compounds. Once produced, hydrogen stores energy until it is delivered in a usable form, such as hydrogen gas delivered into a fuel cell.

Hydrogen can be produced from diverse, domestic resources including fossil fuels, nuclear energy, biomass, and other renewable energy technologies. The environmental impact and energy efficiency of hydrogen depends greatly on how it is produced.

Hydrogen as an Alternative Fuel

The interest in hydrogen as an alternative transportation fuel stems from its clean-burning qualities, its potential for domestic production, and the fuel cell vehicle’s potential for high efficiency (two to three times more efficient than gasoline vehicles).

The energy in 2.2 lb (1 kg) of hydrogen gas is about the same as the energy in 1 gallon of gasoline.

Is hydrogen safe?

Hydrogen is as safe if not safer than conventional fuels on the market today.
Hydrogen has been in mass production and transportation for over fifty years in the United States. Experience has shown that hydrogen can be safely produced and transported.
Ford examined the issue under contract to DOE, and concluded: “Overall, we judge the safety of a hydrogen FCV system to be potentially better than the demonstrated safety record of gasoline or propane, and equal to or better than that of natural gas.” (Ford 1997)
The U.S. used hydrogen as a residential fuel in the last century and it still is used in half a million homes in Japan today.






We know you have a love affair with EV's, but they're not the only option available.

You might learn to love it. I really enjoy driving my daughter's Leaf around town. They are super quiet, no warm up required, heater works instantly in the morning as does the defrost. Just about zero maintenance costs, recharges overnight without any trips to the gas station and they get about 80 mpg depending on the price of gas and electricity in your area. We paid about $7500 for her car and it came with a warranty. Super cheap cars for people that don't need to drive a lot of miles in a day. Great car for a kid in high school or college or someone who has a short commute.

Lol you copy and pasted that without reading didnt you? "per pound" in what setting? Hydrogen flashes through the cylinders and requires sever timing retard. People have been doing conversions for 30 years, a 250hp gas V8 will drop to around 150 once the hydrogen tank is turned on.

Google how it compares to a propane converted car, I'd like to see that comparison

He doesn't care about current data, only references to 30 year old data that supports his EV love.

I copied and pasted it for those that didn't want to click on the link which was provided.

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EV's have been over a hundred years getting to where they are right now. Still have some of the same basic problems even so.

Point of hydrogen isn't putting a pump in, it's the cost involved in dealing with hydrogen. Look into how it's stored and how it is delivered. Probably not going to be self serve at those pressures.
here's a link with $ estimates.

https://cafcp.org/sites/default/fil...cardo_CaFCP-Bus-Team-meeting-Aug2016.pdf

Working for a company that is one of the largest H2 producers in the US, let me comment a little. Yes, on a per mass basis H2 has a much higher energy density. But you can easily cary more mass of gas in a tank. To get the H2 cars on equal footing with gas, you store H2 at a very high pressure. 500 bar or 8700 psig allowing for about 4-6 kq of H2. There are three vehicles availabel for lease that use H2. They are all fuel cell electric vehicles. The fuel cells are not perfectly efficent, about 60% versus 30% for cumbustion of gasoline. When you do the math, the H2 tanks are about equal to gasoline vehicles with a 10 gallon tank. Not perfect match, but close. You still get all the benefits of the EV motors, but with fast fuel of gasoline, and similar range. We are working on projects to further reduce costs of H2 delivered to get close to par with gasoline. Right now, gasoline equivelant of H2 is about $16 per gallon. We have a project goign on stream in about a month that will lower that to about $8. Again, not perfect, but in LA area where gas is over $4, its getting more attractive. And we are now making H2 with land fill gas instead of natural gas, so its more environmentally freindly. Here in the Buffalo area, we are looking at electrolizers using hydro power and water to generate GH2. We still need to compress it, but if green energy is the goal, I see more direct, and higher availability H2 as a solution.