Muscle Motors Michigan

I thought they might have closed but when you call now (after hours) you get a recording answering with their business name so the phone line is still active. Maybe they just had a temporary shut down? Anyone know?

Also, they had a good reputation and I'm wondering if they still do.

To expand a bit: they build the 408 in my Diplomat and it's a beast. I'm pleased and if they are indeed active I'm VERY seriously considering having them build me 440 for my Power Wagon. Would love some recent feedback. They do suck at communicating but I can live with that.

Per google they're about 50/50 on reviews
one guy posted in 2017

their Facebook page has been inactive since 2018,
A NOT SO NICE POST ON ABODIES 2019 LINK

Another form the BBB
There's more out there, I'd proceed with EXTREME caution

Last I knew the motor shop was closed, but they had an online parts store.

Steer clear of them.

They cut back or got out of engine building about four or five years ago. Apparently one of the key builders left and the parts business was really taking off so they stopped building motors.

That certainly is a disappointing post from A bodies. I had my small block stroker built in 2014 and all the feedback I got then was good but obviously there was a change after that. As I mentioned they were not good at communicating but came through in every other way including engine dyno sheet and one stout engine. From their website it appears they are building complete assemblies

http://www.musclemotorsracing.com/bb-street-krate

Any info on ATK performance?

Heard of them, but don't know anyone who owns one.

Blueprint is one I would avoid myself. I know a guy who bought a smallblock chevy crate engine and it was a disaster. It only lasted maybe a year and I think after it was rebuilt again only the block and crank were reusable and the rest was recycled metal. Many of the parts inside looked like they were previously used parts that were cleaned and thrown back in there. By the time he paid to have it all done right he could have bought two engines.

Check these guys out. They have been building and racing MOPAR for years. Had them build a 409 stroker back in 2016. Great running trouble free engine. The son used to be on AJ’s pro stock team.

https://hensleypc.com/

I shall. Thanks.

You should be able to find a local shop that can build a nice engine for your rig. MM was good back in the day but there was a lot of turn over and things got a little out of control at one point. I think the founders are gone but one employee is still running the business but that could be old news also.

They don't appear to have BB Mopar anyhow.

Yes I've talked with a local builder and considering. But I also like the idea of a company that has tons of experience and knowledge from 1000's of builds.

I'd call BES just to get a quote

Prices seem fair

https://www.besracing.com/machine-shop-services.html

That's not quite the story. I do know the circumstances.

I have had a couple of MM motors and a couple of BES motors. BES hands down. No comparison.

I had one of the first stroker engines that MM built back about 30 years ago. It was a welded factory crank with factory rods and Ross blower pistons. It didn't rotate when I got it since they machined it wrong. After they machined the parts correctly it ran, but it only lasted a few months before it seized a piston due to incorrect wall clearance. So that is my MM story. I know that they also built a bunch of good engines for customers but that was my experience.

I was a machinist for 10 years, then switched careers. I built about a half dozen engines after my career change for friends just as a hobby. One of them was Mike Ritz's engine for his Team Starfish Barracuda. He got heads done by MM. They were atrocious. He paid for fully assembled heads and when I pulled them out of the bags, piles of metal chips from the porting fell out of the water jacket. After I had Mike take them to get cleaned, we found out that not only was the core shift so bad, the heads were unusable, but also that half of the exhaust flange bolt holes weren't tapped.

What kind of a shop doesn't check over a set of new heads before starting work on them? The same kind of shop that doesn't clean the heads after porting, they just slap them together.

The pushrods they made were bent right out of the box and both Eric and Mike said they were fine to run. I only wish that I had a digital camera back then. I've had quite a few sets of pushrods made by Smith Brothers and none of them were bent coming out of the box.

The guy that answered the phone, Eric, I think his name was. He was a complete d!ck every single time I talked to him.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I wouldn't let them work on my lawnmower engine.

I believe it was Eric that I talked to several times during my build. Kind of like I was putting him out. I was not calling everyday but more like once a month. He wasn't a dick but like he was doing me a favor letting me spend close to $10k with them. Just happy my engine turned out well.

I'm NOT going to consider them now.

I'm ready to write a deposit check tomorrow (or whatever form of payment). Just want to make right decision.

Here's local one considering: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTUmceBADds

About 8 or so years back BP was horrible. But the owner caught wind of it and completely revamped the facility, equipment, procedures, quality control etc. In the last 5 or so years we've probably installed at least 10 of their engine with ZERO problems.
Unfortunately they don't do the BB mopars anymore due to core availability.



No torque wrench on the intake bolts??? guy sound too much like a used car salesman to me but being local is a plus, MAYBE?
I would definitely do some Background / review checking on them before writing anyone a check MAYBE a CC deposit but not a very big one. I'm also am not comfortable with cash or check down payments as what happens if the place goes belly up or the owner dies. Where's your money then

I'd check out one of the others like Hensley or BES

Hensley has always been first class.
Another i trust 100% is Valley performance and Machine in Ionia Mi
They just did my 418 stroker. Known the owner for going on 20 years. They do mainly Mopar. Tell Jack Don Gentry told you to call. His partner was the assembly guy at BES for years. They are very handy!

There isn't anything local, or at least in reasonable driving distance from you? I couldn't fathom having a motor built for me a place on the other side of the country. Maybe I'm spoiled though living outside of Detroit.

I have had a 340, and a 440 built by Tony Bischoff (BES) here in Indiana. Top notch in my book, but I'm relatively local and know enough about them to feel comfortable.
www.besracing.com/

Is Koffel's (Place) still doing engines up your way?

http://www.b1heads.com/index.html

They bored my 440 block and some crankshaft, rod and piston work that was excellent work here in Huron, Ohio at Koffel's Place II a few years ago.

Dave Koffel and son Scott sure know Mopars.

http://moparhalloffame.com/2015site/the-inductees/2015/


Mike

That's several who like BES. I don't know of any builders who will start a project without a deposit.

I noticed the tightening without torque wrench and thought maybe it's just initial tightening also thought maybe on an intake some guys got a good feel of torque on something like that without a torque wrench. minimal torque and all.

The best local one was Vic at Brevard Cylinder Head and sadly he just passed away. They are not coming out of the woodwork around here and especially not Mopar builders.

Builders ship motors all over the world, it'll show up on a pallet nicely packaged. Another option could be nicks garage, save on the CAD and watch it get built and dyno'd on youtube. That would be cool

Where the motor is built would be the very least of my concerns. In the whole scheme of things, paying to get the finished product shipped to you is insignificant in the cost of the build.
First motor i ever had built was by Hensley in Knoxville Tennessee. I never saw the motor until it arrived at my door on a pallet, i live in Mi.
Find somebody reputable, and let them build it.
I have already mention two such places already in this thread, that i have personal experience with

Around here the shops are dropping like flies in winter. Several have closed in the last few years. the owners have said they can't find anyone interested in learning the trade. Couple that with crate motor competition and the end result is apparent

I think they stopped building engines by the spring of 2017. I called them to build a 505, but they seemed completely shut a down a month or two after.

I'm taking note of the ones recommended and most likely will be picking from one of them! I appreciate the help! I've bought three crate engines so far and had shipped so I don't have an issue with that. Two were MP Magnum 360's and one Muscle Motors stroker 360. I agree that you have to pick the builder most comfortable with. I only would prefer local so that if there were an issue I could stand face to face with someone and demand satisfaction. That would be a bonus. A warranty practically does me no good. Thankfully on the three crates I've bought in the past I've never needed a warranty.

That in my experience doesn't always work. I've had much better luck and reimbursement from GM on a crate issue and Jasper on another> While selecting your source a good question to ask them is who pays if there is a problem and will they put the respnse in writing. Call me paranoid, but I've had a few customers that got themselves stiffed for 10K +/- on motors they purchased.

When I first heard they were closing I emailed Mike telling him I had heard a rumor.... He told me in no uncertain terms, it's not a rumor, they were done, he had had enough. If I can find it I'll post it....

I remember a few years ago it was news when they closed. Surprised to hear somebody is peddling parts under their name.

Eric was fine to deal with the times I called. I even looked something up while on the line with him one time and he never got upset. Also helps when you call places to be clear that you are spending money that day, that’s just anywhere you call.

There was a local engine MM built. Ran ok, but not great. Owner complained the car was a complete dog until they put nitrous on it. I ended up with that engine and it had stage 6 heads on it. Sent them to Best Machine. Chuck called and said the chambers were over 100cc, no wonder it was low on power! The heads had been worked some and while I didn’t pay to have them flowed, Chuck said they looked pretty good. Other issue was the valve job was just insanely bad. By the time I had them cut, new guides, and fresh correct valve job done, that was one expensive set of heads. Worth it to get done right,

I’d called Best Machine and see what they can do for you.

A good port job wasted by not doing basic checks of everything else. No way I’d run my shop like that. You want a ready to run set of heads, you pay for them, not a reputation trashing for me later when things don’t work out, even if I did good work on what little I touched.

There was a member here a few years ago that had a 600+ inch B1 headed motor built by MM. It was a high effort pump gas street/strip type build, made 1k+ hp IIRC, and he had a LOT of problems w/ it. MM was no help w/ it either. I don't think it even made it to the track.

B342W45 recommended Valley performance and Machine in Ionia MI and I liked their site and emailed them but leaning toward BES or Hensley. Calling all tomorrow and geez I hope to have contracted with one tomorrow.

Hensley gets my vote.

I called BES and spoke with Brett for awhile and told him what I was shooting for. He was easy to talk to and he's going to work something up and email me a proposal in about a week.

Thank you Scratchnfortractn!!! Gave me a GREAT deal on some BB parts that really fill in some gaps!!! AND delivered them as well. Great guy! Thanks Mike!

BES came back with rough quote of $14k NOT INCLUDING BLOCK. Ouch. That probably does not work for me. I probably would go for it including block. I know parts prices are up and I do want quality stuff but a block with all the prep work is going to be several more thousands as you know, so I'd be looking at close to $20k.

https://www.davedudekmusclecars.com/

What kind of stuff are you looking to put in it?

Edelbrock performer intake and aluminum heads, and I told him probably go with his advice on cam specs, smooth idle. Comp cam? I told him I'd trust a lot of his advice. Balanced forged rotating assembly preferring Eagle crank and KB or maybe Diamond pistons. I told him I'm open to flat tappet cam but roller would be nice. Demon carb. I have truck oil pan, valve covers.

OUCH is right IMO

I haven’t used them for a full build, just bought parts, but here is Indys price sheet. Looks like 11k would get you what you want, save the roller cam. Could dial back some power and get a Hyd regular cam if you don’t want a solid. Bet that’d be no problem if you could wait. Plus it’s dynoed and ready to go. Just an example.

http://www.indyheads.com/images/price.2015.04.pdf

Although I see in pasting that it says 2015 for some reason. It’s a current link right in their website though.

Thanks for info guys. Also going to call Marsh tomorrow.

Sure does look llike $11k to $12k will get it

I snagged me a set of brand new Edelbrock aluminum heads today. Guess there's no going back now LOL. These are the most difficult part of the big block build. Not impossible to find just hard to find from Jegs/Summit and the usual reliable places. Long waits with unknown delivery dates.

I'm late to the party, but many moons ago I had a 383 race motor that the long block was prepared and built by MM. It was a monster of a 383.

8000 rpm shift points consistently and reliably. It had spent a few seasons in a bracket car prior to my ownership, and spent out its remaining years in my street/strip B body Fury.


I was very happy with the engine and how well it was balanced and assembled.

What about Best Machine they are in Farmington or Farmington Hills ?

Getting ready. Delivery yesterday. NOT from Jegs!