used car market is sad for teenagers

I am sad both by the choices and cost.
I know cash for clunkers killed a lot of cheap used cars.
So up till then you could get a running driving junker for around 500 bucks.
I don't think a single car I ever owned before I got a "real" job cost me over 1k and I drove all but one multiple years.
Which forced me to learn how to fix the cars. Which I think kids will miss out on.

The choices are terrible, but that just goes with what was around in 2000.
Heck even m-bodies seem to have gotten expensive for some reason.
I don't really see but a handful of cars under 2k advertised anywhere, that would even be considered usable in the condition I see them in.

I still have a few years before I need to find a clunker like that, but it is disappointing how far the world has gone down hill.

I might be remembering poorly, and glamorizing the pain, but some of my most vivid memories were fixing those cars back in the day like during a road trip, or over a weekend so I could get to work on monday.

$2500 is the new $500. Simple raising costs and inflation has done that, let alone the Clunker crap...

Kids (or anyone for that matter) won't be able to fix cars unless they have a diagnostic center to plug it into. Too many sensors.

Then, replacement parts are garbage...but that's another story.

yes and no. I have read many articles and stories by people from the 50's to the 2000's and they all talk about cheap cars.
sure in the 50's they were 20 dollar cars, but under 1000 is common from the 70's up to the 2000's.
so that isn't really the reason on its own.

as for fixing cars, that is a myth.
plenty of things can be done on new cars without all that gear.
Weird one off things, or trouble shooting is harder for sure, but it isn't impossible.
And the older the cars are, the more prevalent the information is on the internet.
Now I wouldn't buy anything pre odbII unless I was prepared to gut the system and start again on the engine managment rather than deal with the early stuff. but that is different.

It can seem sad for teens, but requires perspective:
Value of the Dollar is what, 1/8 what it was when I bought my 1st car in 1969 ?
('64 Corvair for $500, which soon needed an engine rebuild, so about $1200 all in.)
In that timeframe, the maintenance & small repairs were required much more often than on newer cars.
Most of us in high school weren't driving performance or sporty cars.
But it's a completely different world now; from what's available, what's expected, ad infinitum.
Seems like $2500 - $4500 is the entry price now for something decent, and that's likely 70s-90s stuff.

Used V6 mustangs are about the only thing I see here that are both cheap and remotely cool looking. Everything else is way more money and/or mud fence ugly.

Neons and Calibers start at $300 needing a few hours and a hundred dollars in parts. Rusty drivers start at $500 and end around $1200

Cab-forward cars are the same thing. These cars are in the 2000's and I don't see what is "sad" about reliable fuel injection, most have air conditioning, and get 40 miles to the gallon?

First and Second gen Rams start at $500 and go up. I got my last 2 First Gens for $300, and $900 and they both run, drive and pass a safety.

There are also tons of great small displacement motorcycles for cheap.

I'm not really sure why you have an M body as an "expensive" example. First of all, why would you shame a Teenager into driving one of those Turds, and secondly, those cars are completely obsolete. A teenager would get laughed at if they went into a parts store looking for something. You need to look at a different era of vehicles, this isn't 1979 anymore. If you want to survive being a teenager, Pick and Pull is where you spend your time. Rarely do they have anything older than 1990.

Early 21st century Buicks are affordable and reliable around here. Still have a couple in my family. Wifey was very happy in her 2001 Park Avenue up until a year or so ago when some clown rear ended her and totaled it.

I was able to snipe a decent deal last fall on a 2001 XJ for my daughter (first car). She really wanted one, but I told her most will be out of price range for sure.
Saw a marketplace post and next morning got it for $2K with 176K miles. Tiny bit of rust and a very tired suspension and interior.
Became a project for her and I. Of course, I got addicted and it became a mini resto project, including new paint (Maaco) and entirely new suspension and cleaned up interior.

I disagree, I think its better now than its ever been. Go search up used cars with a $3000 budget and look what pops up, reliable cars with no rust. 20 years ago you had to spend $5000-$7000 to get that and the car was a tin can.

$500? When could you ever get a good used car for that???? The 60's??

Sounds familiar. I also bought a father/daughter project when my daughter was 16. First gen Honda CRV with bad engine. I made her help me do an engine swap (JDM). That was now 9 years ago, twice totaled (deer hits) since and I just keep putting it back together. Thing is SUPER cheap to fix and been ultra reliable. She bought a brand new truck in 2017 but still stores that every winter and continues to use the old reliable for cruddy months. Nothing wrong with a nice project so kids understand the basics.

A few from a search right now

2010 Kia soul, $2700, 150,000 miles
2006 Infiniti G35 AWD, 74,000 miles $2900
2009 Mazda Tribute, 124,000 miles, $2495

These are cars you can hop in and drive across the country with no issues for dirt cheap, no car payment BS. Better times than ever!

I'm thinking most young adult cars nowadays are parent / grand parent "hand me downs". My parents gave my nephew a 2005 Equinox that was in relatively good shape after they resolved an EGR issue. Nephew has zero interest in it. (Driving or any maintenance) It's just point A to B and is barely used.

yah when i was a kid seems all cars were 150.000 miles now it seems 200 plus

I said beater, not good used car.
But to answer your question it was late 80's early 90's.
My cars in that time frame.
66 coronet 500 2dr was 800 bucks.
71 gto was 500 bucks.
64 dodge 880 custom was 400 bucks.
83 new yorker was 550
67 coronet was 500
87 fury was 800

and sure no doubt a 2000 whatever is more reliable than anything on my list.
I just mean as a kid there were affordable cars I wanted to drive because they looked cool.
vs today what are your choices from 20 years ago that are anything more than a camry look a like?

Mid 90's to early 2000's you could buy running 68-72 Chevelle Malibus and 318 Darts. Duster etc for $3,500 here easy. I know cuz I did it along with many other people. These were not 454 SS 4-speed cars, but just average stuff with 350's ect. Today those same type of cars, cars that are not perfect, but 10 foot drivers are very hard to locate. Many old cars I see for sale are either heaps of poo, or already fixed up and large $$$. A kid wanting something old, cool, and affordable has their work cut out.

Completely disagree. My son is a senior in HS this year & he has had an excellent choice of daily drivers starting at $2500 and the latest at $5500 & has been buying/selling & upgrading along the way. Plenty of cool stuff out there for a car enthusiast starting out & you don’t have to resort to a 6 cyl Mudstank.

A V8 version of that Firebird, even in scruffy shape, would be 5k + out here easy. I have seen lower mile 80's and 90's IROC and Z-28's up around 15-18.

I don't think they are worth that, and would never pay that for one myself, but that is where asking prices have moved to. They may be dreaming and never sell it?

is insurance not killing you for him driving sports cars or 2drs?

We could all relive the glory days
'69-1/2 Roadrunner, A12 car, Coupe, Auto Paid $1500
'70 Roadrunner, v-code, 440-6, 4 speed, 4.10 Dana, Sublime, paid $1500
'73 Challenger, Rallye Pack, 340-4 speed, 3.91 posi, ZERO rust, paid $750
'69 Charger, 383-auto, Minimal rust, paid $300
'79 'Lil Red Express, Paid $2200


Wish we could all live the glory days again, right?

Everyone says that but it’s only around $75 a month for full coverage, everyone at my work forces their kids into 4 doors & mini mom suv wagons because of insurance but we haven’t seen any high $ insurance imo.



He gave $5500 & it is a ‘92 Trans Am , true WS6 & L98 car & it’s in great shape, just has some cheesy recovered late 70’s TA seats in it. The ZZ4 heads, edelbrock TPI intake, headers & 3.73 gearset make up for the cheesy seats to him. It’s a great looking car & his buddies at school say he stole it for the money but he spends his spare time ever since he was 15 searching Craigslist & now FB market place. It’s like the Bargain Post days except now you can easily search states away.

I had a $700 1992 Infiniti G20 back in 2007, 200K, blown struts, cracked windshield, rusted holes in floors, other rust, used up heat score beater. I could find way better for the money these days

No running driving cars around here for $500 any more, they all vanished in the last year. All the "free money" is causing run away inflation and people can buy less stuff now than if they did not get the "free money".

Saw a black 3rd gen camaro on there not long ago, 355, 5-spd manual, black, red int, nice rims, all there, running/driving for $5000. Tempting, also saw a 77 Trans am with 454 4speed swap for $10,000

To me, the sad part isn't the cost of used cars available to teens but the lack of interest teens have in fixing up their cars compared to decades ago. There is so much less interest in getting hands on, fixing them up MECHANICALLY and cosmetically and taking pride in repairing things, and mostly for the males, improving the performance. That seems to be gone for the majority. I'm not saying there aren't some that still have that interest but it's nothing like it once was. Granted expensive diagnostic tools are necessary for a lot but older cars don't need as much and prices on basic diagnostics are coming down.

Most seem to be just as happy in mom's suv as they would be in a tuned Civic (not what I would want but whatever). Grease under the fingernails is icky to even male teens now. I'm amazed at how many families with male teens have a lawn service mowing their lawn. That tells you something right there. I know they are busy with school, etc. but I cannot believe parents do this! I had school, sports, etc. but there was no way my azz wasn't mowing the lawn!

That really is the difference between 'then' and now. Nobody can work on anything.

Just one example: there is an 02 Ram 1500 on the local Marketplace for $1,500. Has a bad tranny. Doesn't look too bad. Local pick-a-parts have trannies for $150-$200. There are similar deals on cars, too. But everyone has to have a decent looking dependable running and driving vehicle for peanuts. Not going to happen.

For those that can work on cars, there are still decent deals today, same as yesterday.

I think there are a lot of useable beaters around, my 20 yo grandson doesn't seem to have any problems find them, but then again, he is not afraid to get his hands dirty working on them.

I think most of the problems with cars for kids these days are the parents. Too many are terrified to consider THEIR teenager in anything with some miles on them, or seeing their precious child driving something with a little body damage. It ruins the family image. Too many kids these days have been brought up with the expectation that they are too good to be seen in anything not perfect, and that mommy and daddy will be sure they get to drive the very best, because after all mommy and daddy will be buying the child anything they want, as long as it meets mommy & daddy's expectations. Mommy and daddy have been living beyond their means for years, and they have taught their children the same values. Gene

Unlike 30 years ago, you don’t see much “junk” on the roads these days. Kids today are used to reliable import boxes.

I did the same thing with a 4runner but it was listed for $11,500 and I got it for $9000. Came with 2018 Tacoma wheels and tires on it plus the stockers with brand new snow tires. Sold each set for $1000 and put TRD Pro wheels and BFG K02's on it. EBC brakes, poly sway bar bushings fixed the front end clunk it had ($50), new CV shafts, rear gate actuator, and just had the stock suspension ripped out of it for Bilstein shocks all around and new springs up front. Love this thing, my buddy that works at a Toyota dealer said I'd get $17,000 for it right now easy, true body on frame V8 4x4 is all the rage right now.

Prior to this I had been driving brand new cars since 2008 and this thing is every bit as reliable and I missed going to the auto parts store and doing upgrades etc. Win-Win, and not only is it holding value, its increasing.

Wife got a Jeep Compass in 2019. She wanted to trade in the 2008 Avenger for it. They would have given us a fair price on it. But we decided to keep it because our daughter is getting her license this year and wants her own car. Why spend money on a beater that you don't know what's wrong with it when the Avenger has lifetime max care warranty on it and we bought it brand new so we know the history. When the Avenger dies, we plan on leasing something for the wife and she can have the Compass. Wife keeps looking at new cars, so lease may be the way to go for her.

i lived through the days of reliable $25-100 beaters, [yes, that was a day or two ago ] and that caused a buddy and i to start a junkyard.
it was amazing just how many cars we got for just hauling away, that only took a tune up to put back on the road !
in '75 or 76, i traded a pair of 5.60-15 VW tires for a 67 galaxy 500 2dr hard top, 390 automatic on the floor & 9" rear. NO rust body, but faded paint and wouldn't run.
it took all of 10 minutes or so to figure out the distributor hold down bolt had loosened up, causing the timing to severely retard. after an adjustment, that thing ran HARD !
today, i'm not in the market for a cheap beater, but i still occasionally scan the adds. there seems to be several choices every time i look that are very affordable [being a relative term] needing a minor repair.
however, there seems to be less and less of the population [of all ages] that want to get their fingers dirty, or learn how to fix things. then, when they find out it costs real money to have a shop repair done, and the junkyard scrap prices paid these days are low, they list on line for more and take an offer just to get it gone.
different parts of the country are not the same, so your results will vary. don't be afraid to search a state or two away.
police tow away auctions are another place to score deals, but you better be there in person and know WHAT you are looking at before you bid !

mopX pLeASe

A day or two ago x 99

A CENTURY or two ago ..,

Exactly Gene! I've written here before; when I was in high school, the student bike racks were filled, and the student parking was minimal. Now there's hardly a bike to be found and they've had to expand student parking waaaaaaay out into the grassy field. And you can't find a junky old car in the lot. Most of us were riding a bike into our jr. year and then scraped up enough money in our senior year to buy an old car with OUR money.

My 'sweet spot' was the late '80's early '90's. I was able to pick up cars all the time for less than $200 and a lot were free. Now, granted, I'm talking about basic family cars, not muscle cars, but still. Most would be considered beaters, but a few were really nice.

At the time I lived in the tri-state area of NY, CT, MA. MA had strict laws about NO frame rust on cars, CT was the same way but with the added burden of having to pass emissions too. NY just expected the car to move and stop under its own power. Back then, people usually had to pay to have their car hauled to the junkyard. Yards paying you for your junker weren't around. People would have a running car that they couldn't register anymore because it wouldn't pass inspection and they couldn't easily sell it, so they'd end up kinda stuck with it. Then a lot of times, they'd get fined for having an abandoned car.

People just wanted their headache gone, and were usually more than happy to unload it on me. My only stipulation was that it had to run (I didn't have a way to tow a car). I would take it back to my little shop I was renting in CT, and evaluate the car's condition. Too far gone, it got parted. Minor repairs, I'd register it in NY and sell it. Being that I usually just dealt with Mopars, parts would often come from other cars I parted.
Then, as now, a neighbor ended the fun. Had a visit from the cops one day. I kept the outside yard clear. If I had to park something outside, it was on inflated tires and not jackstands, no parts strewn about. Gave me the riot act of how I was running an illegal shop, didn't have proper licenses and permits.

I never pursued it further after that. I kept what I wanted, got rid of the rest and less than a year later moved away. Ironically(?) the same town that I was in that was so against 'old cars' ,now hosts an annual car show/cruise in.

Buying used cars is a gamble and at a $3000-$5000 price point an even bigger gamble. Count on every car never having its oil changed in a manner/interval that preserves the engine. In fact plan on it consuming oil. If its a timing belt car it will never have had the timing COMPONENTS replaced even if it has 150k plus miles. Coolant will be the original coolant and we know heater cores and water pump replacement on modernish cars can be 10 hours labor. When my daughters got cars I seeked out financially set elderly people and middle class folks selling their cars. In the ad pics the condition of home and neighborhood- if in the pictures can say alot. With Face Book Market place you can see a pic of the seller. If he is wearing a backwards ballcap with a joint in his mouth flipping the middle finger its wise to pass on his car no matter how nice the car may appear.

Some of that is true. A lot of it isn't.
As an example, i own a used car store. We sell primarily Subaru. Every car that leaves here is serviced by an independent shop, and every car that has a timing belt gets a new one if its even within 10k miles of when its due. Example, Subaru’s that have belts, they are due at 105k. If it has 95k or above we do them as a matter of habit...unless we can verify it was already done...and when.
We also recommend/ suggest to our customers to have a shop they trust inspect the car prior to delivery, for peace of mind. Any dealer/ person who has an issue with the buyer doing that.... run.
Looking at a car fax, dealing with someone with good reputation and reviews, and insisting on an independent inspection can help greatly in narrowing the odds of a surprise.
Nothing is perfect, but the above steps sure help.

Like 2boltmain said older people with money are the best to buy a used car from. Those are the ones that are maintained the best.

There is always an [censored] with nothing better to do than worry about what someone is doing on their own private property.

I'm pretty sure it's all by design. Gotta tread lightly since this isn't the right forum but it almost does seem like there is some clandestine plan to limit our ability to travel.

They're threatening the banning of gasoline vehicles. How many vehicles is that going to render useless and/our valueless?

Is there a fully-electric car out there that has even half the range of a gasoline vehicle?

Short-charge times are still minimum 4 hours and they claim that "damages" the batteries.

Insurance for young people is insane.

Some parts are already not available for Older-than 2000 model vehicles. There's already stuff for my 2004 Tiburon that I literally cannot get anymore. It's junkyard part, or go without.

Cars are designed to fail. When they fail, now there's no parts to repair. We spend a fortune to buy these things only to watch them become useless hunks of nothing.

I almost wonder if it's going to get to the point where people will take a 2019 vehicle, and swap in an old 350 with points and a carb because there were no more parts to keep the 2019-vintage stuff working!

They want to ban the sale of NEW gas cars, not used - and even that'll be about as successful as the 54mpg fleet average that was supposed to happen by 2020 but didn't even come close. We live in a bubble where some of these things could happen, like city home living with your own charge station. But if you think places in south america or literally anywhere else will be switching to EV's that soon is insane.

I don't know. My oldest paid 6k for an 07 Corolla S with manual trans and 125k. It was a trade in at a dealership and in great shape. Seeing it will go at least 300k or more, he will have years to drive it and it looked like new. Yep, we had to go through a lot of trash to find it but they are out there..

My 4runner, 150k, 9$ and going UP in value since I bought it

This is true for virtually every pre-2000 vehicle, and some that are newer than that. 10 years ago, it was true for every 1990 vehicle, etc. That's how it has worked forever.

I dunno man. In the early 2000's, I had NO problems finding parts for my 70's and 60's cars I was rolling back then. The local parts place even used to have those parts IN STOCK.

In 2005, I built up a 1987 Turbo Lebaron Coupe. I don't think RockAuto was a thing back then, so I got 99% of my parts locally. Nothing was hard to find, nothing was terribly expensive, either. But today, I'm having a heck of a time finding pieces for my Daytona. Local places LIST the parts, but nowhere is there any stock.

Heck, in 1999, we needed a coil for a 1939 Ford 8N tractor.... Our Local NAPA was more than happy to sell us one. They had 5 IN STOCK and wanted to unload them.

But there has been a BIG movement for local places to not carry backstock anymore. It's considered "overhead" and overhead costs stores money. It's no cost to them to have something trucked in, because they pass that cost along to the consumer.

My niece is going through this now, looking in the 3_5K range. Does anyone know of any reputable dealers in Central Indiana (Muncie/Anderson etc) they can try? Don't really want her messing with the sketchy Craiglst stuff.

YES

from linked article
1. 2021 Tesla Model S Performance all-wheel drive with 19-inch wheels: 387 miles

2. 2021 Tesla Model X Long Range Plus RWD: 371 miles

3. 2021 Tesla Model 3 Long Range AWD: 353 miles

4. 2021 Tesla Model Y Long Range RWD: 326 miles

5. 2021 Ford Mustang Mach-E RWD California Route 1: 305 miles

there are several still in testing stages that are supposed to get 400+.
the VW ID.4 just completed the Norra 1000 off road challenge on the first try. only 63 of 89 gas powered cars completed it.

https://www.cars.com/articles/electric-vehicles-with-the-longest-range-422227/

keep a open mind regarding EV cars. as technology advances they will get better, the more cars on the road = more charging stations so long range won't be as important. the critics conveniently forget gas powered cars were total junk in the early years .it took a while before they really started to be something.
there are several places where EV cars are easily economically viable now like large cities or delivery cars with set routes.

i have no plans on buying or driving one in my future plans. i have no problem with their development.

According to one survey, in California, 20% of electric car buyers went back to gas:
www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/ev-owners-switch-gas-power-study

EVs are still a niche market. Great for a select few, but not ready for prime time for most of us. Maybe someday, but not today.

And there are still good deals to be had on cars today. It's just that few people can or will take advantage of them. Most people want it all; a car that is pretty, dependable, and cheap enough. Lots and lots of people want that. And that demand drives the price up.

I can offer cars with two of the qualifiers above, but not all three. An example; hail cars with too many dents to fix can be had for really good prices. But while they may be dependable and cheap, they are not pretty. So I can't give them away. Most people would rather gamble on a pretty car with 180k on it. That unit may be pretty and cheap enough, but it's day to day dependability comes into question.

And let's not forget that vehicles 10 years and older can go to export with no export tax. That should not be allowed. According to Forbes magazine, the Unites States shipped 2.6 million used light duty vehicles overseas with a market value of $24.5 billion between 2015 and 2018. That volume has a direct impact on the price of older cars here. I hear folks talk about the 'Cash For Clunkers' debacle. But the impact that duty free exports have on the market is far greater, but largely unknown/ignored.

I dunno man. In the early 2000's, I had NO problems finding parts for my 70's and 60's cars I was rolling back then. The local parts place even used to have those parts IN STOCK.

I gotta agree with That AMC Guy.

Early 2000's I had no problems finding parts for my '71 and '73 locally. They were almost 30 yrs old at the time.

Now, same age, but current time, I'm having more and more difficulty finding parts for my '93. The difficulty actually started about 4 yrs ago. It was as if once it hit the 25 yr mark, everything disappeared. If it wasn't for places like rockauto, I'd be screwed.

I know they can't keep parts around forever, but still. Cars actually last longer now, but what's the point if parts can't be had?

A big part of the problem with parts availability is the massive variety of parts needed for today's vehicles. The manufacturers don't make stuff the same for years and years like they used to. Now many things are changed every model year. Or even more often. Plus, there are many more manufacturers than there used to be. I don't know how they could possibly keep it all.

I should've been more clear. I was referring to body parts, trim parts, interior parts, etc. Those get discontinued and when they are gone, they are gone. I didn't realize the problem was becoming so common with wear/replacement mechanical parts, too.

my problem is i never throw ANYTHING away.
i have three minivans stashed at my buddy's junkyard i can pick parts from to keep my 99 "bus" running till i croak.
it ain't pretty, but i don't care. it gets oiled up every year, so it ain't rusty, but the drawback to that is it's kind of "slimy" to do regular maintenance on.
i have a ton of parts on the shelf for it like starters, alternators, sensors, PCM's, etc. so if something happens, i can fix it quickly.
my motto is : "if you have it, you won't need it."

My last challenge was OEM style gaskets. The metal core gaskets used on these magnum engines. All that’s available locally is cork.

Is it the 5-speed? If so, unfortunately don't expect to make the 300K. Been there done that. The transmission has an unsupported 5th gear (i.e. not a bearing on both sides of the gear...its just kind of hanging out there in space. Over time, expect it to get noisy. Mine made it to 260K (which I am told is a high water mark). I did the 5 speed to 6 speed conversion (direct, drop in replacement). As far as the engine goes, yea. They will last.

Y'know, that's part of it.... the move away from standardized parts. There used to be 3 styles of headlight. Now there's 30,000. Mufflers used to be universal fit, today, they're specific to each vehicle.
It used to be one power window motor fit all four manufacturers. Now they change from car to car. The car companies would benefit from standardized/interchangeable parts by lowering costs, and the parts places could breathe a sigh of relief for not having to carry 29,000,000,000 parts for 3 cars.

About 5 years ago I started buying crashed or broken Jeeps and flipping them for profits. Along the way I've retained a couple for my kids as they helped me work on them. Since I was flipping for money, I've also tracked my expenses on these. These are light collision, blown engine, blown trans, heavy hail damage vehicles that are too costly for insurance repairs, but can still have reasonable commuter value as lower dollar cars. Vehicles I was picking up for $500-800 price tags 5 years ago are now going for $2000-2400. What amazes me even more, is undamaged, clean, low mileage, used versions of these are selling for $6-10k. The book on many of these maxes out around $7-8k.

The export angle is one not often talked about. Where I am at, we have what we call Mexican road trains. These tend to be cars that are 6-12 years old, that may be like those described above, that are sold to Mexican nationals. These guys will buy one good operating large car or truck, they then tow bar 3-4 of them together, make a convoy of 3-4 of these trains, and at night, run them down Interstate 25 to Juarez Mexico. Personally, I think this is were a lot of the local beaters in my area are going.

I admit I'm one of those parents that doesn't want his kids driving a 25 year old POS. My strategy for my kids has worked well 3 times. Two years before they turn 16, I buy a new car and drive it myself. They learn to drive in that car and then when they get their license I give them a car that has only 30K on it and has all the latest safety equipment. Oldest son got a Honda Civic, second one Toyota Corolla, third one Ford Focus. When they finish school and get a job I sign the car over and make them get their own insurance.

Agreed there is a lot of trash but a gem every now and then. I bought a similar 2009 corolla with 75K miles on it a year ago from an older couple. It was an extra car for them thus the low miles. I paid $5K for it and now drive it 120 miles round trip on my commute. Just did all the major maintenance, hoping it will got at least 200K.

You'll want to stay away from 03 to 08 Corollas with manual transmissions. The output shaft bearings usually start making noise around 175 to 200K miles and used ones are hard to get and expensive because they are in demand. The automatics go forever even without a fluid change..

And what's the average cost of any of those? Because nothing entices me and I have a hard time paying a fortune for something I won't enjoy.

I'm somewhat surprised that, with the laws having been changed recently, no small manufacturer has popped up to produce their 500 annual cars that don't need to meet emissions or crash regulations.
But, at the same time, I can understand that it takes billions of dollars to start a car company and 500 cars a year won't produce a profit. But, if they could reproduce an AMC Hornet or AMC Gremlin with a 350-mile electric setup?? THAT I might get behind. Especially if they can sell it for under 25k. Cheap for me, cheap for teenagers.

But I know that will never happen.

You can't fault a safety conscious parent.

And what's the average cost of any of those?

they really aren't that much more than compatible level gas cars.

according to car and driver EV cars are cheaper to own also. before someone jumps all over me, this includes depreciation costs also.

https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a32494027/ev-vs-gas-cheaper-to-own/

copy pasted from linked article.

Mini: $0.0853 per mile/ $3,839

Mini Electric: $0.066 per mile/ $2,970

Hyundai Kona: $0.0909 per mile /$4,091

Hyundai Kona Electric: $0.066 per mile / $2,970


i would assume the big part of the difference is it isn't long term, 10+ years, ownership so all of the electronics in EV cars isn't considered much.
with that said gas cars have a lot of electronics in them also. i recently repaired a 2021 VW tiguan. i drove the car in the spray booth without a bumper ,headlights, hood and door. i triggered 45 trouble codes

the EV cars are cheaper probably because they don't need oil changes and things like that. from what i have read a lot of EV cars used for delivery purposes can easily drive 300,000 mile without any major problems other than brakes and tires.

now onto topic.
every decade is different so direct comparisons can be difficult.

when i was in high school, graduated in 1980, i had it made. you could easily buy cars for $50. most still had points so all they needed was a basic tune up, carb clean, to get to run right. buy a car $50, put $25 in it sell it the next weekend for $3-500. i had a friend his dad owned a service station so we had access to a tow truck. i think we bought and sold over 100 cars a year. we even sold cars to teachers in school. things were great until i made a killing on Chrysler stock after the bail out. i used my profits to buy a brand new 82 Chrysler imperial. my friends dad saw it and it pissed him off so we lost cheap access to a tow truck. it slowed us down a bit so we switched over to rebuilding car wrecks. we had a dealers license and specialized in buying and selling fox body mustangs.
honestly i think i made more $$$ in the 80's then i do now. things were great until i crashed my motorcycle at speed. it took me a long time to heal. others moved on. my friend has had multiple used cars lots over the years, and still does the same thing today. i work in a bodyshop so i really haven't changed much. just my focus on how make my $$.

YUP. Been watching people mock electric cars for ten years now constantly ragging on range, cost and reliability. All this while each passing year they get better and better. This is no different than what the imports did in the 90's to the domestic brands.

True. But what did the third kid do to end up stuck in a Fuckus?

Moving back to topic, what cars are even interesting to own over the last 3 decades? Nissan Skyline? Sure, if you can find one, good luck registering it. Supra? Always been in high demand and pricey. Eclipse? Good luck finding on that isn't a turd. If you do, plan on spending big bucks.

It's not just the lack of 60s vintage vehicles that keeps kids out of the hobby. Heck, even nice mid 70s Cutlasses are huge money. Priced out a decent mid 80s Buick? How about a GN?

Really, the only V8 rwd vehicles around on a budget are Crown Vics. And those aren't sexy.

You're defining the hobby too narrowly. The tuner crowd is what supplanted the old V8 RWD cars. The hobby itself never went anywhere.

It stands to reason though V8 cars seemed to fall out of favor - they weren't being produced anymore. Even the Camaro was gone for a number of years.

I don't think I'm defining the hobby too narrowly. I mentioned 3 different cool imports, not just vintage muscle. You can hot rod anything

I got the 2018 Focus because I did my homework. NON-Ecoboost and NON-CVT. $14,500 brand new. Paid extra $1000 for the larger alloy wheels and tires. Much less than Cruze, and I looked at Honda, Toyota and Nissan and you couldn't touch anything on the lot for less than $23K. It has 32K on the clock and has never been back to the dealer. I recently had my son help me change the oil and rotate the tires, he also has to keep it washed and interior clean. My son was lobbying for a Jeep Wrangler, but he is happy with the Focus and I told him when he gets his first legit job he can trade the Focus in for a $40K Jeep.

EV price to operate conveniently ignores battery pack replacement costs, which will more than make up for oil change and spark plug costs.

It also conveniently ignores the time spent waiting for it to charge. Maybe in town where you can plug it in at night and let it charge while you sleep it's ok, but taking a long distance drive will have you cooling your heels at some roadside money pit costing you even more money spent on trinkets you see while waiting. Not to mention the increase in your waist line caused by eating gas station food to kill time.

Comparing EV's to early IC cars is a strawman. the general tech level increase since then should have eliminated any teething issues commented upon. If you wanted a real comparison you should look at EV's back then, they had them, and compared that to the IC vehicles of the same era, same general tech level in play here. Guess who won? For pretty much the same reasons EV's are not the panacea today. So 100+ years of technological evolution still hasn't fixed EV's inherent issues. Range and recharge time. Range is increasing at the expense of more weight, not to mention the fire hazard with batteries. Yes, gasoline has it's fire issues but the tech to deal with that is developed.

Ease of use is of primary importance to the average consumer. If your "better idea" is more difficult to use it'll get a rep for being junk, regardless. And on that note Tesla's teething problems were largely self induced as it was primarily issues putting the cars together on an assembly line, something a myriad of industries have figured out successfully. Musk was too self involved to get outside help from experts to sort the issues out.