Free Pole Barn

My neighbor wants to give me her pole barn that is next to my property. Pole barn is about 50+ years old and is in ok shape.It is not fully enclosed but would be good to keep my tractor and a car trailer in.Also as part of the barn we want to transfer some land to make my lot more square. See pic
The problem I found is set back from property line for out buildings is 10ft. The 2 barns pictured are only 16ft apart so that would be violation.
The 2 solutions I came up with:
1. Hire a real estate attorney and try to get a variance
2. Shorten or just demolish the pole barn
What would you ? Any other suggestions?

What if you were to connect them together, then it would be only one building.

She wants to keep the horse barn even though it has not been used for 15+ years.. I asked already about selling the horse barn

You do not have to hire an attorney. Just go visit the local city/twp office and speak to the building dept. Get the necessary forms and fill them out asking for a variance in setback. Inform your neighbors what you want to do and if possible, get them to write you an approval for variance letter (Better yet, have one pre-written and just have them sign it - include their name, address and signature spaces.) You will need to provide a more detailed drawing with the property outline and distances including how much "over" you may infringe on the setback. The Building inspector can assist you on the details. Then submit it to the Planning/Zoning Department for approval. There may be a filing fee. Most folks in our area have to appeal the Planning department's first decision to see approval at a Zoning Board of Appeals meeting.

FYI - it can take up to 3 months to get approval.

RobG,

I thought initially that would be the process I would follow or something close. I have called the county and they basically told me I need hire a surveyor that is familiar with the way the county does things and if I wanted a variance to consult with a lawyer. My impression is they don't want to deal with home owners . I ran into a similar response when I went to pull permits to build my shop but got it done myself. A friend who has been dealing with land in my county his entire life told me I would need to attend a public hearing for the variance.
Maybe I need to go to the zoning dept in person and have a chat.

In my one horse town the litmus test is that a hardship has to exist to qualify for a variance. Extra cost is not considered a hardship. Then there are only certain parts of the zoning code that the P&Z board is authorized to grant variances on, setbacks being one of them. Unless the property is pinned, a survey is needed to establish the property lines. The neighbors that are within 300 feet have to support the variance. One then fills out a form and appears before the P&Z board. If the board approves the variance, then it goes to the city council. If the council approves it, then you have your variance and you are good to go.

I would doubt if your situation is exactly like that. But I have never seen a county or town that doesn't have some type of zoning ordinance and in that ordinance there should be the procedure for obtaining a variance. Do some homework, I have found that many people in government who do this really don't know what their own codes contain or require.

Just buy the land and ignore the set back requirements. You aren't building anything new so you don't need a permit. The structures already exist and you aren't changing them. Your pole barn might technically be in violation of the setback rule but it is a preexisting structure. If the setback violation doesn't bother you and it doesn't bother the neighbor then nobody cares. You might run into an issue down the road if your neighbor sells her land and/or if you decide you want to upgrade the pole barn. But if you just draw a new property boundary and leave all existing structures as is then I don't see any reason why you need a variance. You aren't doing anything so you don't need permission to do something.

I'm assuming you're going to cut the new property line in the middle of the two structures? You could also shift it two feet so the more permanent structure is 10 feet from the line and the older, less valuable structure is 6 feet from the line. The seller would most likely want to shift the burden to you so she'll want to keep 10 feet on her side of the line and you'll have the 6 foot set back. I still don't think it is an issue since it is a preexisting structure. I'd draw up the sales agreement and see what happens. You might want to have the land surveyed and make sure that the new boundary between the buildings is very clearly marked.

Yes, my plan is to cut the new property line in the middle of the two structures and give her the top portion of my lot.
My property and my neighbors used to be one big horse farm her family owned.
Actually my neighbor did offer to sell me some additional acerage but it would not increase my property value much since you couldn't build on it.. This whole giving me the pole barn started because I was thinking of buying land and moving,
I do like your idea of just buying the land and the pole bar. Thank you

You should be able to do a buy and sale agreement without any real estate fees. Always a good idea to run it by an attorney but as long as both parties own the land and there aren't any weird deed issues it should be a simple transaction. I would have it surveyed with stakes driven at each corner of the new boundary just to make it clear in the future where the fence line is and who owns what. The current neighbor might be friendly but no guarantee that the next one will be.

you probably need a surveyor to establish the new lot line and description of the property to be transferred in the lot line adjustment. Then just go to the county and tell them you want to do a lot line adjustment. If they don't bring up anything about building setbacks, then you don't. Done deal.

You'll more then likely need a lawyer like you said for the land transfer and surveying and the township would need to be involved also. There are usually size restrictions also that need to be met when dividing lots like that.

For the building play it safe and get an attorney and the township to deal with it. It usually also depends on what the building is to be used for. My property was separated from my neighbors years before I bought it and my building doesn't have the proper clearances to be used for livestock so there is a clause on the title stating that it won't be used for that purpose. SInce it's an existing structure you might run into something like that to make the distance to the property line work.

Id tell her thanks for the offer and have a nice holiday and carry on with my life.

Take the appropriate measures to buy the land and do the transfer and KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT about the building. If anything is mentioned about it, it was all legal when it was built and that should be sufficient. Hypothetically, if two 20-storey buildings are built side by side an then one is sold off, does one have to be demolished? If a person severs their lot 8 feet from their house, does the house have to be demolished? I strongly suspect the by-law applies to new construction and the folks at city hall are too damn lazy to look it up!

Around here it's a $100 a day fine for any unapproved variances, last time I looked. You might find that your new to you building is now in violation and get fined till you fix the violation, said fix being demolition, which needs a permit around here as well. Best at least consult an attorney familiar with the relevant statutes. Now if I was out in the county rather than the city limits this would not apply.

You'll probably get approval as long as you pay. They want your $$.

Until the property next door is sold and surveyed for the new owner.

I had to jump through a bunch of hoops when I built my garage...

I ended up having to get an attorney when I closed a paper alley that was the rear boundary...

You mention the setbacks are 10'... I know where I'm at they are 8' to a side or rear property line owned by someone else...

In my case it was a county owned paper alley which had a 15' setback...Thus the need for an attorney...

I think I'd run the new property line between the two where both owners mutually agree it needs to be and have that drawn up to approach the county with...

I'm not sure if including the location of the existing structure would matter as your only concern with the county would be the land acquisition...

In my experience with the county they do not answer questions directly for fear of being held to what they say...

What about buying the land both buildings sit on, including enough to get 10 more feet. Allow her to use the horse barn for free (as an incentive). All the money you waste on lawyers and such will be better spent on a tangible asset.

Buying a lot with an existing 100 year old building is not the same as throwing up a new shop, why is this even being mentioned !!!

A little more info for everyone. The part of the county I live was considered rural when I purchased my house 20+ years ago. Then everyone found out how good the schools are in the county especially my part. So property values rose and what was a nice middle class area with lots of farms is now upper class with $1M+ mcmansions.
The way they subdivided the property originally isn't logical but I know why it was done. I need to get the property squared off .We aren't talking a big lot. I have 5 acres and she has 15.
I have offered to buy both buildings but she wants to keep the horse barn. Her last horse died 18 years ago. No idea why she wants to keep it.

For the same reason you want to buy it would be my guess.

Is the township even willing to entertain the idea of selling a piece of land in this manner? I know of other jurisdictions who won't don't want to do piece meal changes like this.

One thing you might check if you havent. We have several pole barns and the ones with some age on them and solid posts had posts that rotted off at the top of the ground. Poke around just under the top of the dirt and you might find they are no good. Theres a few ways to fix them without new posts but her barn might be a problem itself

Thanks for the tip the pole barn has to 60+ years old. If it does need work maybe I will just shorten the building by 4ft and avoid the setback vioiation.

Just wanted to update.
I spoke with the county and they basically told me to go hire a surveyor to adjust the property lines.
Contacted a company that was recommended to me and they sent me a proposal.
Proposal included:
Boundary Survey
Record Plat- Using " Originals Only- Record Plat" procedure
Certified Drawing
Meetings
Total cost $9,000
So my free pole barn is not actually free....... oh well

Get another survey company!

I did something like that back in '92. The survey and the docs and recording was about $650