The current collector market

Looking for input on what you all think the collector market is looking like with this covid-19 pandemic going on, and after it is over? Seems a lot of cars for sale on here have been reduced in price with no sale..... tough times for sure.

Virus or not the Boomer's slow exit from the car hobby will reduce prices. Just not enough young people out there into them to keep it going at the pace it once was. They didn't grow up with these cars so it's harder for them to see what all the excitement is about.

Go to the drag strip, swap meet, and car shows here and a good chunk of it is retirement aged people.

I couldn't agree more. Seems to be that the market is slipping pretty quickly and going soft. Will be interesting to see where it is a year from now. Sad to see, but I feel like it is happening quickly.

It is sad to see because it also figures to reduce the manufacturers of replacement parts

That's pretty accurate. I see the same thing down here in Florida. The situation going on opens up buying opportunities for those who couldn't get in before. The market is going to be like this for a while.
That muscle car that was $100,000, probably now can be had for $50,000.

I think this is like so many things in life, it depends. IMHO, the market for the '50's cars is dying with the exception of some flagships like the 300C/D and "Christine". The early '60's cars are on death's door, even the Max Wedges are losing their allure. The late 60's have a better chance but even these are going to survive as resto-mods. '70's? After about '75 there never was much interest, face it the Warlock and the Lil' Red Express are the most exciting things to come from that era.

What is going to survive, any winged car because it's strange. And any 2nd generation Charger along with some of the late '60's/early '70's B-bodies but I predict that there will be a demand for rolling chassis but not restorations. That resto-mod thing again that the youngsters want. Just my opinion.

Last year at Chryslers at Carlisle I had a lengthy talk with a large car collector and ask him his thoughts on the future of the collector cars. He said because of numerous reasons some already talked about here that in 15 years the cars will be worth almost nothing compared to what they once were bringing. He has since sold off alot of his Hemi cars so I guess he sold when the going was good. I thing for sure there were alot of cars out there that were just to over priced to begin with and maybe now there bringing what they should have brought all along!

I Followed this same trend with the restored model A's, V8 Fords etc. The restored cars that were sought after fell by the wayside as the new generation wanted the cars but with modern drivelines A/C etc.
When the restored cars were worth a bundle the "street rods /modified ones" were worth 1/3 as much. As the older guys started dying off the "Street rods" overtook the restored ones value wise by leaps and bounds. I believe a lot of it had to do with who had the disposable income, it typically wasn't the 30 year old it was the 60 year old.
I believe the same will happen with the 60'-70's cars save for possibly a few real rare ones like a Boos 429 or original Cobra> We are already seeing the "Resto Mod's" going through the roof price wise. History repeats itself and I do not believe this is going to be an exception.

Some day those riced out civic coupes with the single wiper mod will be the high dollar in demand car. Better load up on them now to beat the craze and make some money off it for a change

Restomod for me! I'd much rather have a late 60s or early 70s with a good body and a modern drivetrain, modern steering and handling, and modern brakes then anything all original. I was there in the 70s (i'm 63 years old) and drove that stuff back then, and I was modernizing brakes and drivetrain even back then.

I think the new Challengers will kill any of the 70s E body cars unless they are the top of the line cars, if they haven't already.
I think the exotic cars have another 10 or 15 years (unless the do away with gas) before the market is just no longer there. Prices of anything less then top of the line, or simply strange factory offerings will continue to drop.

If your "investing" in any car these days, it better be for your enjoyment, or I suspect your not going to be happy with your return on the investment. Might be OK for a short term, maybe a couple years, but long term isn't going to work. Gene

I think the rare 1 of 10 type musclecars that are irreplaceable will be ok, or at least not decline as much as time goes on.

To me the pro-touring thing needs a breath of fresh air. It's gone from drivetrain upgrades, which are totally ok by me, to strange styling bolt-ons with air dams and all sorts of useless stuff. I see those as trendy and trends come and go. Just hope your on the right side of however that plays out.

Everything is changing. Cars were a symbol of freedom for young people and a statement, now they have cell phones. Young people who are into cars like new muscle except the few straggler hipsters who think driving an old car is cool. Old farts don't want to be bothered anymore and also are into new muscle, creature comforts and dealership mechanics. There are still some old diehards but we are between 50 and 75 so it's slowing and will end at some point, and the less amount of people interested in drum brakes, manual steering and a car not as fast as a new Honda will bring the values down with them.

Any examples of these $100k cars that are available for $50k?

Dave

I don't necessarily buy into the doom and gloom for the market. I'm seeing run of the mill A-bodies go for several thousand when a few years ago they were $2k cars.

BUT, I want those of you in my age bracket (I'm 60) to make an observation. Up and down the street you live on and in your neighborhood, how many classic cars are there? I think in my neighborhood there's me and a guy (if he's still one street over) with a 65-ish Mustang. Used to be a guy up the street with a 50s pickup. I think he moved. The point is that when we young a lot of us were into these cars on some level. MOST of the guys I knew with 60s muscle cars back then don't have one anymore. We were ALWAYS a minority.

Guys with big collections that are getting on in age are thinking about getting out if there is nobody to leave them to. I get that and some really special cars will hit the market, but that has always happened. Then, there's guys like Wade Ogle (who I would guess to be in his 40s) with a very nice collection. My younger son has his Dart, has built a '65 Mustang, and works with a bunch of guys in his age range who are into old cars (but don't have his skills).

This subject comes up more than once a year and it's always the same. The hobby will be alive until we can't buy gasoline and oil anymore (yeah, it could happen, but not likely in our lifetimes).

I has a prediction 30 years ago, that Model A cars would be fire sale prices in 15 years. Prices on them are holding well.

Yep......people were also predicting 10 years ago that Tri Five chevys would be cheap very soon. Well, “very soon” doesn’t seem to have arrived yet.

Probably wouldn't have to look very far, asking price and transaction price are two very different numbers for muscle cars right now I assume. But who's going to admit they accepted 50%...

There's a decent example at the top of the WIW section right how. 68 Hemi RR, sold for $110K at BJ in 2010 or 2012, sold for $66k in March at Meecum and just sold on E-Bay for $89.5K.

the doom and gloom for the market and hobby has been predicted for well over the past 10-15 years and
IMO may have dropped to some degree but we are a long way from stock muscle cars for bargain basement prices .

And this is from someone who was / is in the market to buy and I sure wish those prices were now. If anything prices have creeped up a bit in the past year or so . At least for the cars Im looking at / interested in . That being a 66-67 or 69 Plymouth B body

Well prices may be dropping on the cars but that hasn't happen yet with the used parts for these cars, i was looking around for a few things for my 71 Challenger and was shocked just how much some people are asking. A Hemi K frame asking 2900.00 dollars .........

I agree with a lot of the above to an extent.

If feel the market for people interested in the cars most are interested on Moparts is shrinking. I also feel that the overall amount of people that are interested in this type of stuff has shrunk too. But, when I go to the track, etc., I still see interest in hot rods and cars in general, just not the same cars that most have been interested in, in the past. What I see often is the quickest, easiest and or cheapest way to go fast or just have fun. I see a lot of fox Mustangs, G body Chevys, 80's and 90's trucks, Camaro's, etc. with LS swaps, turbo's, etc. I see some quick Diesels too. There are also a fair share of newer cars.

I was at the track a number of weeks ago and spoke to a guy with a nasty diesel truck, and he mentioned that he's been contemplating moving to an LS swapped, turbo something because it's cheaper.

Most I talk to about older cars all say the same thing, I'd love to have one but, they're too expensive. I feel that a lot of people are or were once priced out of the old car market and have since moved on or, they're now a little older and wiser and choose not to spend the money on some of the older, cooler iron. They build purpose built car that are loads of fun for less money. Again, they'd love to have something else older and cooler, but have just as much fun with a lesser car.

I personally hope prices do continue to drop a little more, not too low but, enough where I can get into some different cars with the budget I have to work with.

Well,

I just bought a 1966 Satellite, hemi Auto.
The car belongs to a very good long time friend of mine. I actually helped restore the thing a little over 15 years ago

And At the price point I paid , which is WELL UNDER other / similar cars advertised for .



I know for a similar car sold out of CA. maybe a month or 2 ago and he had it advertised for upper $70s k range but no idea actual sold price



Theres this another one listed in Texas . Also advertised for a while now for was low 60s I think and so far no sale at high $50s

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1966-Plymouth-Satellite-Hemi-426/274453845074?hash=item3fe6b95452:g:FlIAAOSw9jdejoUj

And theres this one, No idea how long its been listed as Ive not seen this one before

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1966-Plymouth-Satellite-Hemi-426/283981740947?hash=item421ea17b93:g:LKsAAOSwcK1fM0uj

There were 2 sold at Kissimmee this Jan , Both brought upper $70s price wise. One was Tony Ds car which I thought for sure would bring over 100k for a 3000 mile car

So you don't have any examples of recent sales that you can produce...I am just wondering what you are basing your opinion on?

Dave

A wave of bankruptcies are coming. Expect a recession in the next 18 months. Job losses will create a liquidation of lower-tiered Muscle cars. Already seeing it right now.

I think the market is still good. Most of the people out of jobs are in the service industry and tend to be lower income. The Muscle Car hobby crowd is a higher income crowd to afford it. People aren't traveling and saving money staying at home, and working from home also saves money. Its pretty easy to buy a car on the internet with all the money you aren't spending right now. I haven't been able to do my usual shows/trips this spring and summer which has saved me some money. So I've just been buying signs/cars instead haha I'm lucky to work at Costco were we haven't been affected, in fact business is way up.

Ebb and flow of life . . . there will always be ups and downs . . . however, depending upon what the "climate change" doomsday crowd gets through for legislation, etc . . . they might kill the old car hobby. I started out in this "hobby" as just a way to keep my car running/going by wrenching on it (cause I could not afford to pay mechanics/shop fees) and then going to car shows. The joy of the car show has been meeting all the wonderful people out there and becoming friends, even though there is long distance between . . . . and yes, getting older (57 now) I do enjoy the creature comforts, and the newer rides - love fuel injection, computer control - turn the key and go ! . . . but still have my "old cars" - not sure I would still have them if I could not work on them and had to pay mechanics to do what I can. And as said, for me, it's a hobby . . . sometimes wrenching can be a calming, fun relaxing way to spend time. We all have different interests, and one of mine happens to be these cars that I am able to utilize and maintain.

I have noticed that the parts supply though, is dwindling . . . I mean just regular routine maintenance things like brake shoes/pads, rotors, drums, tune up parts, etc . . . or at least where I am they seem to be. Front Calipers for A, or F,M,J body - from NAPA, takes them at least a few days to "bring in" ! Same thing with pads and shoes . . . pretty much run of the mill parts ! But then again, gotta remember that it's parts for a 40 or 50 year old car !!! Not like mid 80s -90s when there were tons of these cars in the wrecking yards too.

Go out and enjoy your ride while you can !!!

Current:
I haven't noticed much change in asking prices due to Covid, there was already some "softening" through 2019, but the effect of Covid on people's economies may still take us into this winter to really show itself.
Using home sales as an indicator, the economy is doing well, and interest rates, even on used cars, are low. A friend got a 3.9% rate on his used Ferrari. I think a good number of people didn't spend and banked money by isolating and not traveling as much this spring and summer. Stock market is still doing well. Buyers might be waiting though, it would be cool to find out if muscle cars are on the market for longer before selling - to measure the demand.

Near-term:
Nobody has a crystal ball, but my guess is by spring 2021 you will see average muscle car prices dropping more noticeably. The trickle down effect of the trillion dollar stimulus packages will be wearing off, rent relief and stimulus loans will be due.
The expanded money supply will drive some inflation, meaning prices on everything will be up (propping up some muscle car prices), and those in worse economic shape will be selling non-essentials.
The only offset we all hope for is that all the jobs come back, but I wonder if job supply won't stabilize before there is a significant dip in consumer (muscle car) spending.

Long term, its the same dynamic as always -
Owners grow older and older, and eventually sell their [insert any era] classic car, so more cars are on the market, and fewer people are around that are interested in buying them.

The only question is how long it will take, probably 10-15 years until only the "halo" cars retain their value.

Cheers,
- Art

Try and buy an e body car, yeah no fire sales there. Some cars are just going to hold value.

Tons of cars online for sale for high prices, but they are not selling. If this was 2006-2007 they'd be sold by now. I know guys who were buying and reselling several cars a year and putting money in their pocket each time as the demand was there. Much harder to do that now.

Jim has a valid point. When I was young all the kids were talking about what they were going to get when they got older. Well, the kids from my HS are now in their mid 50's. Maybe 4 of us have cars. You know how many cars musclecars where in my HS parking lot? about 4. Just saying. As for the original vs restomod, think back to the day. Original was booooooring. Everyone was day 2ing their cars. Finally building the 67 Barracuda. Hint, it isn't even close to original. The Cyclone came to me with points and now has discs, different steering system, fuel injection, E-heads, roller cam etc. Even my Trans Am hasn't been original since the day I bought it and I'm planning on going with EFI with it also for a variety of reasons. The cars are going to my boys and trust me, they know what a carb is, but couldn't dream of actually tuning one.

I agree. I think this COVID economy is gonna make income disparities/inequality even worse. Think many that have money will have more money and continue to buy. The majority of my customers are my age (57) to 70's. Heck I have 80+yo customers starting NEW projects. They either have money or everything is paid off (or both) and they are spending. Hell I'm in this group (everything paid off). Dusting off my old car. Probably dump another $10-20k in it. I've even been looking for a nice 74 Challenger (just cause, last year, I had one as a kid, etc) for a few years but they are selling in the 30's. Hell I thought I'd find one for $10-15. That ain't happening.

I think we'll have plenty of cars and parts for 10-20 years. I started my gasket business 15 years ago and feels like I'm just getting rolling. Growing 20% every year. 20% better every year at Carlisle and the Nationals. People ask me all the time if I've seen a slowdown. Nope. Hell all the well known Mopar resto shops have multi year backlogs. A local guy that resto's mostly early Camaros (but owns a 66 Charger) has a warehouse with like 50 assorted make and model cars in it. First time I saw it I asked if it was a personal junkyard or something. He said no. These are customers cars. 5 years worth.

A year ago I drove to the other side of MI to buy a truck hood (to duplicate the hood insulation). The guy restored 50's Fords with the hard top that retracted into the trunk (I knew of them but never gave them a 2nd thought). So there's people that are still interested in those oddball cars even a couple vendors that supply all the parts for them. There will be customers for some of the classics right? Model A's, 55-57 Chevys, 50's and 60's Thunderbirds, 60-70's muscle cars, Grand Nationals, TRUCKS, etc

I am the old guy with the one owner 2-door Honda Civic Coupe mint low mile in resale red car at the gas pump or store. They are looking it over and saying how many miles? 53K dude..................Same thing we did in 78 on when we saw that used Challenger, Charger, Dart, Duster, etc.
I get asked all the time if can hold their # for when if and when I sell.
The disappointment when I tell them no I am keeping it for quite some time. Yes, they even state Show Room Floor looking at it.
Sad real Sad!

JUST THINK ... if it was pInK ??!!

Eric, can you read? Re-sale Red!
You can see it here with the record snow of 2008. has not snowed since It was a major deal here even shut down the bridges and highways yes really.

I was just illustrating that prices aren't what they used to be. It's a depressed market and there are some good buys out there.

personally i think modern muscle is hurting the classic car market more then anything. i see more and more guys selling off their old crap for modern muscle thats faster, handles better, stops better and has all the creature comforts... at some point the nostalgia of that old iron which seems to become only garage art wears off... they actually drive and enjoy their modern muscle..

i keep hearing about this poor covid economy.. just not seeing it.. just a few examples... building supplies sold out all over because of home renovations, houses sell in days at well over asking price, they can't build rv's fast enough to keep on the lot (thats across the country not location specific) and even those are selling way closer to asking price then they ever did.. people are spending money and lots of it.

this topic pops up often.

a few opinions from me.

people stating prices aren't going down that much is a reflection of the cheap $$$ flowing from the fed, emphasized by the extremely low interests rates. it's not really a true sign of the strength of the economy. yes some segments are strong but a larger portion is teetering on falling off the edge of the cliff.
interest rates go up 2 or 3 points all hell is going to break out. it's not a question of IF this will happen, it's WHEN it's going to happen.

as others posted. the top of the line numbers premium cars will always hold their value.
non numbers car prices are getting weak and weaker as time passes. they will stay in the $15-$20 range and stay there for a LONG time. i credit the modern muscle car for this.

the biggest moving upwards pricing cars are actually the late model 80's muscle cars. and this part will be going higher in the future.
not long ago i posted a low miles mint Omni GLH-S. sold for $20K. same auction had a extremely low mile 80's Turbo Daytona or or something like that that sold for $30K+.

I completely agree with this. I sold my restored 70 Cuda (did most of the work myself) about 3 years ago and bought modern muscle. The reasons I sold the Cuda and went modern was all the reason abodyjoe mentioned, faster, handles better, stops better and has all the creature comforts. Honestly I love my modern muscle and glad I went that direction and have no intentions of getting rid of it, but I do miss working on the old stuff. There are a couple of reasons why I will mostly likely never get a class car again... cost and performance. From the performance point of view it would be hard to build a classic car to perform as good as a new one. I know you can build one to come close but it is very expensive to do so which brings up the other issue, cost. Cost is really the biggest problem with these old cars especially with Mopars (60’s and early 70’s stuff). This is also true with the other brands as well but not quite as bad as with the Mopar stuff.

Any half way decent classic car which would be a good starter car for a restomod (I say restomod because I need to build something that competes with modern muscle if I was going to go back to classic muscle) is going to be in the high teen’s to low 20’s just to get started and will cost many 10’s of thousands to complete. On average I would bet you are at least around $70K to build a decent resto mod and probably a lot higher then that if you did a nice build. For that money you are easily into Hellcat territory, Camaro ZL1, or even a new Mustang GT500. I admit that the styling of the classic cars has a little more appeal then the modern muscle but I still think modern muscle is still pretty cool.

Lastly, one of the biggest show stoppers for me with doing another classic car is the body and paint work. It is really hard to find a good/trustworthy paint and body shop anymore and when you can find one the cost is just astronomical.......

BUT at our age we've all been through this 5 times now and know the world is not coming to an end. It's called a buying opportunity; stocks, CARS (did I mention I'd like to find a 74 Challenger 360 4sp), homes, INDUSTRIAL BUILDINGS. Personally I am secretly waiting for a correction. Industrial building are TWICE what they "should" be around these parts.

When I worked as an engineer a coworker that made about what I did, $110k, LOST HIS $150K HOUSE during the great recession. I kept my house worth 3x as much and bought a small $50k industrial building and bought $50k of equipment to start my business. Some people will always be fools with their money.

I guess my point was lost young guys see my wife car as a solid start.
They always comment just needs some wheels, exhaust, subwoofer, and a few stickers.
And ya,know they woukd be chick magnets end we,all know ricer guys get the Honeys. Piles of um.
In our market I can not find a starter used old truck or A Body to bounce around town in. Done cars or If.
REPETE hey are all 'If"
IF’ was a Skiff, We Would All Be on a Boat Ride.
If I sell it I need big bucks for the car because done itg is worth 100k.
Like it is a crime to just drop aittle coin on fixing some stuff on ome. To bounce around town in a mid 70s car are truck with 318 2bbl or slant.
Maybe that is why I like the Road Kill Show so much

I get it on the Honda stuff. Not anything I would be interested in, but I have had that conversation with my next door neighbor. He has a one-owner '97 Acura 3.0CL coupe. It's a bit worn around the edges, the sunroof doesn't work, and it's got a lot of miles, BUT it's a two-door coupe that's loaded. When he retires in a couple of years there will be a line of young kids who WANT his car. At least that's what I think. He's not buying into it, yet...

He has the 340-383 Cuda / Challenger in his driveway of todays cars.
I do not get it either. But that is the facts like it or not.
So it is not just New Muscle.
The thoughts of a Barn Find Honda. MAKES me want run screaming.

I think the younger group was pushed into the import cars because it's easier to get a car payment and modify a running car vs buying an old car. The old cars in their price range would be rough and need serious help. Add in the fact that a lot of those guys likely had limited tools and knowledge and it was easier to buy something new. How many older guys would even give a younger guy parts or advice with an old car project? Not many I know of.

Girls that age are going to hang around with the guy who has a nice paint job and stereo vs the kid with a primered old car, no ac, scruffy interior, etc.

The other reality is that the Honda market is based on reliability and small engines being able to take an incredible amount of abuse and just keep coming back for more.

not to mention the parts availability of those imports. still parts in junk yards at decent prices, can walk into any part store and get parts for them without having to order them... tons of aftermarket support too..

bottom line it is what they were brought up on, were handed down to and could afford.. and man do they support their hobby too. i'd drive by atco raceway on a muscle car day and it was crowded but on an import day they were lined up for a mile in each direction to get in.. the crowd blows away the muscle car crowd..

Totally agree.....

i couldn't agree more.
the number of brain dead idiots financing everything up to their eyeballs and spending every cent they earn and more is mind boggling.
they learned nothing in the great recession.
but then again maybe they did. the government will bail out the bad actors just like last time. and they will whistle Dixie all the way to their next scam.

That car will never be worth anything, the only "kid" (non NSX) honda stuff worth anything are the intergra type R's and you'll have to really want one, its still a FWD, slow car compared to anything being built today in the performance realm.

"not to mention the parts availability of those imports. still parts in junk yards at decent prices, can walk into any part store and get parts for them without having to order them... tons of aftermarket support too.."

This ^ My local yard has lots of imports from the 90s on up, but almost nothing 'old' (80's and older). Kind of like when I was younger and putting Chargers together. Need parts, just run down to the yards, lots of 'em, and could order new from any C-P or D dealer.

[ quote=SRT6776]

That car will never be worth anything, the only "kid" (non NSX) honda stuff worth anything are the intergra type R's and you'll have to really want one, its still a FWD, slow car compared to anything being built today in the performance realm. [/quote]
I am with you on never having a value. But it has to do with less market for classics and brings the values down on them.
As the post right above states lots of aftermarket and used in the salavage yards like when we were young.

The value of old cars is held together by a group of buyers who feel they are worth that much to them. Once that group gets replaced by another group with a different set of values then the prices will reflect that change. Same thing with homes or anything else that people have dumped a bunch of money into. Your counting on others to see it your way, and sometimes they do and sometimes they don't.

When I was just starting to drive cars The Model A's were big $ now not so much. We could grab one up if we wanted one now. My buddy started selling his big block 55 Bel Air at 32K but took it off the market as he said he could not build another for that. 15 years later he sold it for 20K in the same shape. lots of Tri 5 guys are older now and the wife that has a dead husband is calling my other friend who is a flipper to buy them.
The market dried up. when he started with Tri-5"s they were all the rage now no so as well with the exception of all #'s cars and convertibles