COVID-19 hits older men, smokers harder

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-02-coronavirus-men-older-people-hardest.html

Sample quote

Men have died from coronavirus at nearly twice the rate as women, and the virus has been shown to sicken and kill older folks at a greater rate than young people, according to data from China.

The coronavirus death rate among men in China stands at 2.8%, compared with 1.7% among women, according to a report last week from the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention.

About 80% of people who have died from the virus in China were over 60 years of age, China's National Health Commission has reported. Studies in The Lancet found an average age of 55 among Chinese citizens who've developed pneumonia as a result of coronavirus infection.
Snip
For example, men in China smoke at a much higher rate than women, research has shown. More than half of Chinese men smoke, compared with around 3% of women.

It turns out smoking activates a receptor used by the coronavirus to infect human cells, ACE-2, Poland said.

"That is the speculation behind why we are seeing such an unreasonably high severe case and fatality rate inside China," Poland noted.

If this is so, then gender differences in coronavirus illness and death might not be as striking in the United States, where around 15% of men smoke compared with 12% of women.

End quote

More info

http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/02/study-72000-covid-19-patients-finds-23-death-rate

Sample quote

Of the confirmed cases, 1,023 patients—all in critical condition—died from the virus, which results in a CFR (case-fatality rate ) of 2.3%.
The CFR jumped considerably among older patients, to 14.8% in patients 80 and older, and 8.0% in patients ages 70 to 79.
Among the critically ill, the CFR was 49.0%.

End quote

Young people under age 19 are showing a very low death rate of 0.1% or so.
These young people may show little or no symptoms,
and may be therefore key to spreading the virus.
As with serious flu, it might greatly help to close schools, like Japan already has.

I already figured this virus could easily kill me. 63, already have COPD and have had pneumonia about 5 times already. I'm a prime candidate, however, I feel that this virus, like other flu viruses has a season and will probably subside as the weather gets warmer. Or on the flip side if it does start spreading I actually have a place to go to where there isn't anyone else around.
I've also heard but don't know how true it is, that a dog has been identified as having the virus.

Judging by the air quality in China, you might as well say that everyone smokes.

^This.

Trying to come up with numbers for infection rates without controlling for the environment is useless. Way too many other factors at play here that just whether or not you smoke. Rates of infection out of 1st world nations like South Korea and Japan would be more applicable.

Ok, so:

1, Can one get the disease more then once?

2. Can mosquitoes transmit it?

3. Sounds like if one is in the high risk group above , having both of the current pneumonia vaccines would be wise? ( I've only had one of the two)

Just mother natures way of keeping order and thinning the heard from time to time.

History shows it.

A good trial run for something really bad. Look what a simple virus has done?

Interesting the way it seems to target the old.

I think I see a lesson there.

Sounds like a good summer to hunker down, lock the main gate and spend the summer on the mopar projects and let the one above sort things out. I could probably go a year or better without leaving my property I hope many others are equally prepared.

How many people die from the regular flu every year.

I thought I heard on the ABC news tonite - 60k ..

This might give some who put 1k down on a 300k home, + two leased SUV-s, $200 a month tv bill, 200 family cell plan bill, who couldnt buy a bag of groceries for his family if they were layed off for two weeks a bit more perspective of whats important in life. But its doubtful.

On the upswing, maybe some NOS parts I need will come down in price.

potHead ... those numbers you throw out might be to the extreme BUT many MANY people are living from paycheck to paycheck !

Well humans collectively have also shown we will never all get along, extreme global change of any kind has never came fully on the shoulders of us humans.

If this or another virus came along and knocked 25% of the worlds population we would change paths on a global scale. Weather a virus, space collision, bring it on, were not getting it done on our own.

Come visit doc, but ya got to bring something to the table or you might end up being fertilizer in my garden.

How true!, having been in China/SE Asia the air pollution/quality is absolutely horrible, you have to experience it to comprehend how bad it really is, as far as smoking being a contributor to the virus's effects, Chinese cigarettes come in 2 variety's, low tar and high tar, the low tar cigs are like smoking unfiltered Camel cigs...horrible!

Everything targets the young and the old first, even the trash in our society target them first. On a positive note I heard today it is illegal to eat dogs and cats in China for now, so things should get better fast. What a s hole.

Smoking kills, it has for years.

When it comes to the basics of health as a society, start there.

Speaking of the air quality in China,

https://www.foxnews.com/science/china-cornvirus-coincides-plummet-nitrogen-dioxide

Interesting.

It was wild Bats in the open meat market that is said to have started this. They do taste like chicken when roasted.

But not this time according to early reports.

Are chickens that scarce that they have to eat bats? I'll never understand people.

This is why any concerns about climate change and it's causes should be addressed in Mandarin and not English.

COVID-19 “might be” about three times more deadly than the 1918 “Spanish Flu”:

I say “might be” because with COVID-19 there may be large numbers with mild symptoms who are being left out of the infected count.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5911181/

Sample quote

The 1918–1921 influenza pandemic killed an estimated 0.8% of the Arizona population in three closely spaced consecutive waves. The mortality impact of the fall 1918 wave in Arizona lies in the upper range of previous estimates reported for other US settings and Europe, with a telltale age distribution of deaths concentrated among young adults.

End quote

My grandfather lived through the 1918 Flu as a WW-I soldier in training at training Camp Zachary Taylor in Louisville KY where several hundred of his fellow soldiers died.

About fifty yards away from the house I grew up in was a cemetery for a family that had previously owned the land. I started mowing that cemetery’s grass when I was about 9 years old. I noticed that half the graves were from the fall of 1918. My grandfather later explained to me about the 1918 Flu.

In 1976 when I was in college there was the Swine Flu danger when one odd H1N1 flu strain infected US soldier in training died after a 5 mile march. My grandfather long distance telephoned me over and over asking if I had gotten the vaccine yet. I was one of 48 million who got the Swine Flu shot and had zero bad reactions. Of the 48,000,000 vaccinated USA citizens a bit over 4000 filed a adverse reaction damage claim with the Federal government. Of this 4000 only 25 were for actual deaths.

And medical science and treatments haven't advanced any in the following century.

Bill Gates raised from $10 million to $100 his contribution to fighting COVID-19

His opinion on what to do:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisett...once-in-a-century-pathogen/#291a69ad1200

It "might be" a good time to temporarily proactively severely restrict cash transactions (ie no change given, money only moves one way?), and require only non staff contact credit card transactions across the board.
Might want to also require hand sanitizer dispensers in public places, like at ATM's, gas pumps, etc.

Of course there is no "proof" of an impending calamity, kinda like "climate change"?

Chickens are indeed plentiful in China ( anything that moves is fair game for the dinner plate though), although the sightings of wild birds are very few and far between, the bats however are in great abundance on the main land, they fly day or night in large groups... as far as the open meat market, if you've never been to one in China, it's a truly vile disgusting affair.... I think the only other country that rivals China in the lack of hygiene is India.... I predict that when Covid-19 hits India, either it decimates the population, or because of the rampant filth in India, Covid-19 won't even take a foot hold... https://www.facebook.com/ClaudiaMoManChing/videos/1548335025322792/

What has changed since the swine deal?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976_swine_flu_outbreak

Since the Swine Flu deal
the SARS disease appeared in 2004.

The people who died of SARS did not die in vain, because the USA and others reacted.
We have a USA made vaccine for SARS, and discovered that several drugs help treat it.

COVID-19 is a “cousin” of the SARS virus and the outer coat of the two viruses are about 20% identical.

The US government has also funded fast to make vaccines instead of slow to make Grown in egg vaccines.

For the last 3 years I have been taking the fast made “Flublok” influenza vaccine made from the cells of the corn borer caterpillar.

More than 20 companies are racing to make a vaccine right now.

Last week I read in Chinese health ministry reports that during the Year 2004 SARS virus episode
it was found that the old cheap Malaria drug Choloroquine Phosphate
( typical price overseas 4 USA cents per 250 mg pill)
helped SARS patients recover.

The Chinese were now reporting that COVID-19 patients were also doing better when given cheap Chloroquine Phosphate pills.

I decided to order 30 tablets from Costco Pharmacy,
which almost always has the cheapest USA drug prices.
As a Malaria drug very few US drug stores keep this in stock and Costco said they would have to order it from the warehouse and could not yet tell me a price.

I just called Costco Pharmacy to check.
Costco said it was still on backorder with no firm delivery date.
Costco said they did now have a price:
$501 for thirty tablets !

Supply and demand?

Mail order United Kingdom pharmacies are quoting $48 for sixty 250 mg pills.

bats, cats, rats, they ALL tast like ChIcKeN when roasted.

Buffalo Bat Wings and a Corona Beer. Mmmmmm

corona bats and a buffalo beer you say ?

First US death https://komonews.com/news/local/1-dead-from-coronavirus-in-king-county-health-officials-confirm


New cases https://komonews.com/news/local/two-new-cases-of-coronavirus-including-student-in-snohomish-county

Just heard from a very reliable source that this whole thing is a hoax. WOO! We're all good, folks.

First death was “medically high risk patient”.....many people in other countries have recovered from this virus. My point being. If a person has “at risk health”, it is very likely they would have the same outcome with flu that leads to pneumonia. If SARS, H1N1, West Nile or none of them cut the world population in half, I find it hard to believe that this one will.

Better be careful, you might get a vacation for getting political.💣 Thats not what was said, it was about the response to the virus, and you know it. It might be time to come together and leave the bs behind and work to solve this, not score points. ✌

No idea what you're referring to. I was going off of what I read from a major news organization.

OIC

Ok, 1 confirmed death and 1 High School student in Washington state confirmed sick with this.

The HS student went to 2 different health care centers on Monday and was released. ???
He then went to SCHOOL while real sick. The school admin stopped him and sent him home to quarantine. It is STUPID stuff like this that will spread this virus.

Besides the Cover your Cough, these are MUSTS!!!
1. If you are sick, Stay HOME. Do not go to school or work.
2. If you are going to seek medical help, CALL them before arriving so they can meet you outside so they can gown and mask you up.
3. If you see someone that seems to be real sick in public and they are not masked up, stay very clear of them. That person should be told to leave the public areas and mask up.
4. Carry a N-95 rated face mask with you when going into public. You do not need to wear it but have it on your person in case you meet that person in #3 above.

You can not rely on our governments promises to keep you safe. You must protect yourself and family first.

I was at the grocery store yesterday. Some miserable shrew started coughing without covering her mouth, right in front of the yogurt section, when I was about 25 feet away. I turned around and walked away. No Greek yogurt in my lunch this week.

I tend to get a bit anal. I have told a few people in the past to cover their cough or sneeze. It can make them angry but I do not care. I will try to explain why if they will listen.

Since its still a relatively free country, why would one expect anything different when many feel its just a "hoax", as another member mentioned, for "points"?

Points are worthless!

Many years ago Moparts removed Post Counts due to post count whores. At that time I was very active on here and had over 3,500 posts, around year 2001 or so. I lost my user name and could not recover it so I rejoined in 2003 or so as Dave_J with a space between the e and J.

I care less about post counts.

Looks like it's time to start getting your news elsewhere.

And I thought he was being sarcastic, because I had the same inflection (?), from a "reliable" source.

in before the lock !

I retired in 2016 from GTE/Verizon/Frontier telephone company. All told I worked as Telephone Install and repair for 48 years.

As a telephone installer/repair tech we are ghosts when it comes to being allowed access to homes and business's. I have been allowed to go into that Adult Care center where this man died in Kirkland WA so many times. Not once did they log me in when I went in to work on an elderly customers ADSL or phone line.

My office that I reported to and picked up my work was in Kirkland WA. But many days my first job was to do a Fios TV and internet install in 'Mill Creek' area of Bothell WA. This is where that teenager was that just got sick this week. My next install could have been back in the Kirkland area. So I would be all over the map on a single day.

Many times I was out at a customers home working on a telephone trouble. The noise issue, static on the line, was inside the house and I would be going in every room to take the phone jacks apart trying to find the one causing the trouble. At about 20 minuets of being in the house, the lady would say "I am so glad you could come out on short notice. I need my phone line fixed as I am home with the flu and can not go out". What the heck??? Thanks lady for infecting me.
Now... I have three more jobs to do before the end of day. My next job could be in that Adult Care Center.....

So many times fellow workers would come to work sick. We had sick days but if you took more than 2% days sick in a year you would get a letter of concern. You had to file FMLA paper work to protect your job. A standard work year is 261 days. So 2% of that is 5.22 days. If you were sick 6 days in the calendar year you were under the heel of your boss.

And on another part of this Virus. A USPS postal worker in our major Postal Sorting center in the Seattle WA area has come up positive for Covad-19. This is where all the packages from China are sorted before being sent out to the city post offices.

The news just said there are 6 cases of Covad-19 victims in my King County WA alone. Those 6 plus the two in Snohomish County makes 8. ????

We are "GROUND ZREO" here in Washington State.

I do not believe that at all.

I suspect the analogy to the danger of icebergs is going to be rather accurate in this ordeal.

Remember when the outbreak in China was first reported there where like "6"(?) deaths in the first reports?

Now dead Chinese MD Li Wenliang tried to warn on Dec 30 of a spreading “like SARS” disease in 7 patients, so he must have seen the first victims in Wuhan in early December or late November.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51403795

Since out of 100 people infected with COVID-19
80 just show flu like illness you can “walk around” with
and 2 mostly older men with other medical issues die,
it would seem an ever increasing number of the +80% “spreaders”
Have been leaving China to other countries since December.

It would not surprise me if the virus could survive on the cardboard surface of a package that stayed between 33 and 110 degrees F for numerous days.

I have read that COVID-19 can survive on a cell phone screen for 96 hours.

I have yet to see an example of real overreaction or "panic", actually quite the opposite, and therefore in light of above, we maybe past the tipping point in a world wide pandemic that slams the older generations.

might be handy to remember -

Listerene mouthwash was originally a surgical disinfectant and is effective against envelope viruses (Less so with non-envelope viruses). So if you are ever looking around a bathroom cabinet for something include that in your scan.

Flu and Covid 19 are both envelope viruses.

Envelope viruses are also diminished by contact with alcohol cleaners.

World Health Org's recommended 'Home made skin sanitizer':

https://www.who.int/gpsc/5may/Guide_to_Local_Production.pdf

Lysol is also very effective on Envelope virues. Its just not easy on skin.

lysol, listerene, and alcohol is in abundance here.
jack danials and beer as well, so i'm not concerned.

“Jack Danials”, for when the wife starts asking too many questions......

Be afraid, be VERY afraid.

Maybe China invented the virus to knock some of the old folks off the socialist retirement dole as well as get rid of some men because of the high percentage of men who don't have a corresponding woman numerically speaking because everyone chooses to have just one boy baby.

So Social Security will remain solvent after all?

Only if almost everyone dies.

___ ______ ____, _____ ____.

(Political comments redacted)

I have a 6mm sonic checking probe coming from across the pond. I better leave it on my back porch for a month to open it.

We are mostly older men here on moparts.

We fix broken things.

We attempt to pass on knowledge to grandchildren and younger people in general.

2% fatalities of roughly
330 million people in the USA,
worst case,
would be
6,600,000 dead,
perhaps by November.

About 5,000,000 would be men.

How would the future of the USA change
if the knowledge and philosophy of 5 million men
ended quicker than normal?

Older men with damaged lungs in areas with less than average spare capacity of advanced hospital beds.

I immediately think: retired coal miners.

Just dip it in 1 gallon of E-85.

If thats not enough, light the E-85

Will that E85 even burn. Lol. Ohhh at Walmart today around 3pm there wasn’t one single jug of Clorox on the shelf. And an Asian woman was buying all the dust particle face-masks.

We would have to become polygamist to help with all the extra women.

"You knew the job was dangerous when you took it, FRED".

Super chicken rocked!

Is the rumor true that some on MSNBC is suggesting NUKING Kirkland ?

Roughly 100 years ago..and there was no Internet or mass travel back then...just Nature trying to tamp down man...what's old is new again..

The Influenza Pandemic of 1918

The influenza pandemic of 1918-1919 killed more people than the Great War, known today as World War I (WWI), at somewhere between 20 and 40 million people. It has been cited as the most devastating epidemic in recorded world history. More people died of influenza in a single year than in four-years of the Black Death Bubonic Plague from 1347 to 1351. Known as "Spanish Flu" or "La Grippe" the influenza of 1918-1919 was a global disaster.

https://virus.stanford.edu/uda/

Blame the Pangolins, and those who would eat them...

Did pangolins spread the China coronavirus to people?
Genetic sequences of viruses isolated from the scaly animals are 99% similar to that of the circulating virus — but the work is yet to be formally published.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00364-2

Your prognosis is potentially fairly accurate IMO, except for one detail, that requires a bit more self awareness then this group has shown to me, stubbornness combined with the ability to view things from a new/different perspective, ie times change, most people don't.

A question I asked a few months back here about the age of moparts members, showed there is hardly anybody that responded under 50.

I also believe the financial drain on required proper care, quarantines, isolation,etc, etc, would really ding the entire system.

i am watching this very closely as i'm approaching 70 fast, and i have MS, and my wife has COPD.
i have had several chats with my doc [not THAT DoC ! ] about this. our pneumonia and flu shots are up to date, and my wife [for many, many years now] avoids people that coughs and hacks like they got the plague.

our state [PA.] has yet to claim any victims, but it's only a matter of time.
we are not getting panicky yet, but we both are very concerned.
luckily, the hospital is only a few blocks away from where we live, and has a pretty reasonable and competent staff. [both of us have used it on many occasions, and they ain't killed us yet ! ]

MY take, there are many other life lessons applicable here IMO. For example there is one way to avoid STD's with fairly high certainty, avoid that activity, similarly, there is one way with high certainty to avoid COVID, don't leave your house. Obviously that's rather impractical for most, however I do believe the less one has exposure to other humans (don't know yet about pets, mosquitoes, etc yet) the less chance of becoming infected.

So the choice is pretty obvious to me, reduce your exposure to the level you feel is an acceptable risk, and screw anybody that feels you are over reacting, etc.

You can forgive them at their funeral.

I weeks ago boosted my normal medical, water, can foods, non perishables, household supplies for an approx 4 month run, if I ever decided to bunker down.
I expect to live longer then 4 months with or w/o COVID anyway.

Figured it was easier to stock up before any run started, I've been thru too many hurricane panics to try and avoid that stupid scenario.

we never go out much, and we do have a "supply" built up over the years just in case of ??? happening.
this supply was built up using local store "sales", coupons, etc.
we usually grocery shop off peak hours, not too concerned there.
just going to watch closely to see when we get hit and where. then we will decide on a course of action to be as safe as we can be.
one case has already been discovered in new york city, [as of last night's news] so it's getting very close, roughly 390 miles away.

Almost every disease known is harder on smokers and old people. Why are people surprised by this?

Neither are strong enough,. Need at least 70%. I bought 4 gallons of 99% Isopropyl.

On a related note, IMO, anybody that has gotten on a Cruise ship within the last two? weeks, is an idiot.

Think about it this way - everyone is already on the same "Cruise Ship", we call it Earth.. LOL
- Art

Maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way, how about a COVID free cruise, everybody gets tested two weeks before boarding, then goes into strict quarantine for two weeks, and then gets on the cruise ship and stays at sea until this virus blows over?

EXACTLY...! I've got dibs on jc for a cabin mate.

See?? Humans have an innate creativity and talent for solving problems in a crisis.. Businesses will figure out the opportunities and we'll be fine.

Bon voyage! See you at the bar..
- Art

well one problem with that, can we even trust the CDC tests for the virus are accurate?

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/01/health-officials-probe-coronavirus-cdc-118523

Plenty in stock.

They do suggest to stay hydrated.

More than 100 years ago our grandparents faced a pandemic with remarkable courage.
I hope a hundred years from now grandchildren will think that our generation faced a pandemic with courage.

When they will have been collecting SS for 60? years?

Today a friend sent me a video of the Wuhan Market....unreal...I wish I could post it here MP4 player

I don't want to see it. Truly disturbing and disgusting.

I have been in many market places around the world. Some not too bad but far too many like what you'd think you'd see in a 1700's London movie. You fight just not to puke in some.

I'm wondering how similar lung damage from urethane automotive paints with isocyanates compared to smoking might be for potential increased risk with COVID.

Never been a smoker, I always worth a cartridge style mask, but it was a few years of painting before I upgraded to a fresh supplied air breathing system with the urethane paints.

We'll see.