Moparts
Side view cameras in place of mirrors
Posted By: 360view
Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/14/20 12:20 AM
https://news.yahoo.com/lexus-debuts-model-cameras-instead-side-view-mirrors-175502277.htmlSample quote
The cameras are also smaller than traditional side-view mirrors, which means that they generate less wind noise, reduce the vehicle's drag coefficient, and obtrude less in the driver's field of vision when cornering or manoeuvring.
Housed in aerodynamic casings to reduce their exposure to dust and rain, the cameras are equipped with built-in heaters to prevent freezing or misting, they also have luminescence sensors that automatically reduce the glare from the headlamps of other automobiles.
End quote
Posted By: stumpy
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/14/20 12:31 AM
More electronics to fail when you need them most. Some things are fine just like the are.
Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/14/20 02:56 AM
I've driven a few proof of concept vehicles with only camera mirrors, it certainly takes some getting used to. You cannot just move your head/torso you change the view, which makes for interesting depth perception when you have a 53' trailer behind you.
That said, they are evolving very quickly and have some extremely nice benefits once sorted out. They're coming to market at full steam.
Posted By: CMcAllister
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/14/20 04:03 AM
More electronics to fail when you need them most. Some things are fine just like the are.
This. Learn how to adjust your mirrors. Look over your shoulder. It's not hard.
I want a robot to pick me up, carry me to the bathroom, wipe and tidy up and carry me back to the couch because it's sooooo hard to do it by myself.
Posted By: jcc
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/14/20 11:50 AM
I've driven a few proof of concept vehicles with only camera mirrors, it certainly takes some getting used to. You cannot just move your head/torso you change the view, which makes for interesting depth perception when you have a 53' trailer behind you.
That said, they are evolving very quickly and have some extremely nice benefits once sorted out. They're coming to market at full steam.
That perception comment is interesting. Do they have say maybe steering wheel mounted L&R mirror momentary push to zoom with nighttime infrared auxiliary lighting?
How about 15? min loop full time camera recording for the mirrors?
Posted By: not_a_charger
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/14/20 11:52 AM
The same group of people who railed against "needless/useless/unnecessary" backup cameras as part of the nanny state now loves them.
The same will be true of side view cameras. The cameras will be far superior to mirrors.
Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/14/20 12:12 PM
This. Learn how to adjust your mirrors. Look over your shoulder. It's not hard.
For something like a Class 8 sleeper truck, there is no looking over your shoulder. It's 100% mirrors, and bigger mirrors are a
significant aerodynamic hit. Overall, mirrors are always a compromise, cameras can offer vehicle/surrounding tracking for future autonomy features, fog-free viewing, enhanced night vision, trailer tracking while cornering, etc.
Posted By: Mr T2U
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/14/20 12:31 PM
The same group of people who railed against "needless/useless/unnecessary" backup cameras as part of the nanny state now loves them.
The same will be true of side view cameras. The cameras will be far superior to mirrors.
i originally thought back up cameras were a waste. but i have to say back cameras are a nice thing to have. they make moving cars in tight confines much easier.
as far as side mirror cameras. i don't want them on my car. something $$$ expensive to break. as others posted. turn you fat head around and look. don't change lanes with just your mirrors and traffic will move much smoother.
in some situations i can see them as good. but in my auto situations no i don't see them as a benefit to me. i don't even want those ridiculous dash screens either. dash screens and camera mirrors probably will a required match.
one downside to me is the brain dead idiots won't hit the side of the garage with their mirror when parking. so i won't get paid to pant, and replace them.
Posted By: BSharp
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/14/20 12:42 PM
They'll turn out to be a good thing, it's just hard to get used to the idea of replacing something so simple with something so complex.
But hey, we need a microprocessor to turn our dome lights on and off. Don't we?
Posted By: not_a_charger
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/14/20 12:50 PM
This whole "turn your head around/look over your shoulder" nonsense is just that. It's never a good idea to do that. I love these get off of my lawn rants. LOL "Take your eyes off of the road so that even your peripheral vision won't catch anything in front of you, you sissy!"
LOL at shaking your fist and telling people to adjust their mirrors, but then telling people to look over their shoulders instead of...um, adjusting their mirrors correctly? Or instead of adding a blind spot mirror from Auto Zone for $2.99?
But don't worry, you won't have to add those mirrors once cameras replace your side view mirrors.
Posted By: not_a_charger
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/14/20 12:52 PM
one downside to me is the brain dead idiots won't hit the side of the garage with their mirror when parking. so i won't get paid to pant, and replace them.
Oh, don't worry. They'll just hit the wheel arch on the fender and/or quarter instead. In fact, that's good for you, because that's a bigger $$$ repair than a mirror.
Posted By: wingman
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/14/20 01:28 PM
Technology is nice--usually better--than the old way of doing things.
Until it breaks.
The level of complexity in all vehicles has skyrocketed, and even the simplest tasks that used to be performed by a wire and a switch, or a cable now require a computer.
It's great when it works as it is "designed". When it doesn't....(see the old Boeing 737 Max thread).
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/14/20 01:32 PM
not sure if this is correct
https://ecomodder.com/wiki/Mirror_Laws_by_State_(U.S.)
it won't happen because the law specifically states must be a mirror. written back in ye olden days.
till that gets changed, you won't be seeing any cars with just camera's .
Posted By: not_a_charger
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/14/20 01:43 PM
not sure if this is correct
https://ecomodder.com/wiki/Mirror_Laws_by_State_(U.S.)
it won't happen because the law specifically states must be a mirror. written back in ye olden days.
till that gets changed, you won't be seeing any cars with just camera's .
Easy to get that changed. Not an issue. Laws also didn't require rear bumpers for pickup trucks, or energy absorbing bumpers for minivans.
Posted By: John Brown
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/14/20 04:15 PM
not sure if this is correct
https://ecomodder.com/wiki/Mirror_Laws_by_State_(U.S.)
it won't happen because the law specifically states must be a mirror. written back in ye olden days.
till that gets changed, you won't be seeing any cars with just camera's .
Easy to get that changed. Not an issue. Laws also didn't require rear bumpers for pickup trucks, or energy absorbing bumpers for minivans.
Don't believe Indiana has allowed vehicles without rear bumpers, at least since the early 70's.
Posted By: not_a_charger
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/14/20 04:24 PM
not sure if this is correct
https://ecomodder.com/wiki/Mirror_Laws_by_State_(U.S.)
it won't happen because the law specifically states must be a mirror. written back in ye olden days.
till that gets changed, you won't be seeing any cars with just camera's .
Easy to get that changed. Not an issue. Laws also didn't require rear bumpers for pickup trucks, or energy absorbing bumpers for minivans.
Don't believe Indiana has allowed vehicles without rear bumpers, at least since the early 70's.
No state can require less than the Feds mandate, but they can require more in some cases, such as the one you outline. I know that base model pickups were sold without bumpers well into the 80s in Ohio, and maybe longer than that.
Posted By: mopars4ever
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/14/20 05:48 PM
More stuff to drive up the cost of a new vehicle. I guess $100,000 will be the norm soon.
Posted By: Sniper
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/14/20 08:43 PM
Housed in aerodynamic casings to reduce their exposure to dust and rain
Lol, like the backup cameras?
I am always cleaning them off.
I can see the benefit for something like my Daughter's Camaro which has a blind spot the size of a Mack truck. But I still swivel my head around looking, because regardless of what you have for mirrors, you still have a blind spot. My work truck has the tow package mirrors and that includes convex ones much larger than the $2.99 ones you stick on. Still a blind spot there and some texter will find it and sit there.
the backup camera is a handy tool, I use it and both my side view mirrors to see what I am doing as I back up. If I didn't have a camper shell full of tools and parts rendering my rear view mirror useless I doubt I would use it at all except for when hooking up a trailer, it is the handiest there. One thing I love about my 51, no unwanted actions upon the part of my vehicle. I do the controlling, not it. Been more than once the traction control upset my vehicle trying to do something I didn't want it to do. Sometimes I want to turn right to go left.
![[Linked Image]](https://static2.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/Doc-Hudson.jpg)
Pretty soon though you won't have any mirrors at all because you won't be driving, the car will do that for you.
Posted By: jcc
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/14/20 11:32 PM
This whole "turn your head around/look over your shoulder" nonsense is just that. It's never a good idea to do that. I love these get off of my lawn rants. LOL "Take your eyes off of the road so that even your peripheral vision won't catch anything in front of you, you sissy!"
LOL at shaking your fist and telling people to adjust their mirrors, but then telling people to look over their shoulders instead of...um, adjusting their mirrors correctly? Or instead of adding a blind spot mirror from Auto Zone for $2.99?
But don't worry, you won't have to add those mirrors once cameras replace your side view mirrors.
When I see a fellow driver turning their head while driving, I give them a lot of extra room.
Wonder why nobody ever fesses up rear ending another car when they had their heads turned?
Because they know its rather dangerous practice, more of an intentional visual distraction .
I also drive a Class 8, your mirrors never lie, but you must use them, and mistakes happen because they didn't, or one misinterprets them, and since high school I install the classic "wink" mirror in my muscle cars..
Posted By: Mr T2U
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/14/20 11:52 PM
what's worse. quickly turning your head to check your blind spot, or looking at your dash screen to check your side mirrors?
at least when turning your head the person in the other lane should see that and know the person is changing lanes.
i can't copy past from the book so i will write exactly what it says.
page 51 wisconsin drivers handbook,
https://driving-tests.org/wisconsin/wi-dmv-drivers-handbook-manual/ BLIND SPOTS
LOOK OVER YOUR SHOULDER IN THE DIRECTION
YOU PLAN TO MOVE. be sure no one is near
the rear corners of your vehicle. these
areas are called BLIND SPOTS. because
you cannot see them in your mirrors.
to see vehicles in your blind spot, you
NEED TO TURN YOUR HEAD AND LOOK,
Posted By: jcc
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/15/20 12:01 AM
If one is paying attention to their mirrors, its virtually impossible for one to get into one's blind spot without being noticed.
Unless texting is more important.
I interpret tuning one's head means they are not looking where they are going.
Kinda hard to defend/explain a rear end accident.
Posted By: Sniper
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/15/20 12:06 AM
If one is paying attention to their mirrors, its virtually impossible for one to get into one's blind spot without being noticed.
Unless texting is more important.
I interpret tuning one's head means they are not looking where they are going.
Kinda hard to defend/explain a rear end accident.
If you are following so closely that a quick glance to check your blind spot results in a rear ender you need to not be driving.
Checking your blind spots predates texting, by decades. Nice strawman though.
Posted By: stumpy
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/15/20 12:12 AM
It takes micro-seconds to turn your head enough to see what's around you. If you run into someone in front of you because you glanced around you were FOLLOWING WAY TO CLOSE.
Posted By: jcc
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/15/20 02:42 AM
It takes micro-seconds to turn your head enough to see what's around you. If you run into someone in front of you because you glanced around you were FOLLOWING WAY TO CLOSE.
And the reason there are rear end accidents.
Merging into tightly spaced interstate traffic, following another car in front takes a lot for granted the person front will not panic at last moment and hit their brakes at the end of the merge lane without any warning.
.
(60 mph = 66/ft/second, or about the time one takes to a "quick"(?) glance over one's shoulder and judge speed, distance, dynamic positions, and intentions of other cars maybe even looking over their shoulder?
)
QED
Posted By: SNK-EYZ
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/15/20 09:50 AM
It takes micro-seconds to turn your head enough to see what's around you. If you run into someone in front of you because you glanced around you were FOLLOWING WAY TO CLOSE.
And the reason there are rear end accidents.
Merging into tightly spaced interstate traffic, following another car in front takes a lot for granted the person front will not panic at last moment and hit their brakes at the end of the merge lane without any warning.
.
(60 mph = 66/ft/second, or about the time one takes to a "quick"(?) glance over one's shoulder and judge speed, distance, dynamic positions, and intentions of other cars maybe even looking over their shoulder?
)
QED
Stumpy is right, if you rear end someone simply because of a milliseconds of having your eyes off the road you're following to close. Simply looking down at the dash would cause an accident if that was the case.
As far as your reply, even if someone panic stops in front of you, if you hit them you were too close. Their car didn't stop instantly, it take time and distance to stop a vehicle. The higher the speed driven, the longer the distance required to stop.
The problem is that people drive with one car length between cars at 70 mph and think that they have time to react.
They don't........
Posted By: not_a_charger
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/15/20 10:43 AM
Stumpy is right, if you rear end someone simply because of a milliseconds of having your eyes off the road you're following to close. Simply looking down at the dash would cause an accident if that was the case.
I agree with everyone saying that if you rear end someone, you're following too closely, but that's true of every rear end accident. The difference between looking at your dash, and looking over your shoulder, is that when you look over your shoulder, your peripheral vision isn't going to help you. Looking down at the dash, you can still see your surroundings in your peripheral vision.
Posted By: jcc
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/15/20 11:40 AM
The assumption the :"look over the shoulder" is a mere "milliseconds" distraction is absurd,
Posted By: Mr T2U
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/15/20 12:17 PM
and i have been driving for 42 years. i look over my shoulder to check my blind spot multiple times a day, every day since i got my drivers license.
i have never rear ended anyone.
so the concept that looking over the shoulder to check your blind spot will make you rear end someone is equally absurd.
in my opinion trying to check your blind spot by looking in the mirrors takes longer and is much more hazardous than just turning your head around to check your blind spot.
as the link i posted earlier. the Wisconsin, and probably every other state in the USA, DMV DRIVER TRAINING MANUAL RECOMMENDS looking over your shoulder to check your blind spot before changing lanes. it has been that way since i got my drivers license and probably been that way MUCH MUCH longer than that.
Posted By: 2boltmain
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/15/20 12:47 PM
Technology makes things much easier- especially for us getting older. But those who buy this tech MUST BE PREPARED FOR ASTRONOMICAL REPAIR COSTS! Insurance rates will go up to because those companies pay for the fender bender that includes $2000 worth of damaged electronics in addition to the panel and paint damage.. Front end alignments that include replacing/aiming/calibrating driver assist sensors. Sensors only available from the mfgr $$$ not aftermarket. The general public loves all this stuff.....until repair time. Then they fill their britches and cuss out the shop presenting them the estimate. Its really a drive new every 2 (constant monthly payment) encouraged industry.
Posted By: Mr T2U
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/15/20 12:55 PM
well said. most people like the electronics until they find out how much it costs to replace the,
this is why i posted i don't want this stuff on my car.
i repaired a 2019 VW Touareg about 1 month ago. a fender bender requiring the replacement of both HID LED headlights, grill and front crash sensor was close to $15,0000. granted it was a $70K car new. but the headlights were over $5,000 EACH and that was without the bulbs and transformer, it was just a bare headlamp housing.
i have read LED tail lights can cost over $1K on some trucks.
Posted By: Sniper
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/15/20 03:01 PM
I recently put LED headlights in my 51 Plymouth, 7" sealed beam round ones, GE Nighthawks. $235 each. $5k each is insane.
Posted By: Mr T2U
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/15/20 03:17 PM
i agree 100% on new technology costs on cars is getting crazy.
i forgot to add that the headlight main beam also turns with the steering wheel also. they also rise and lower the headlight aim by themselves when the load changes the car height. also when replacing they have to be programed also. sometimes they won't even light up until they have been programed. i think the HID bulbs are in excess of $100. when aiming these lamps you need a scanner to do that, no hand tools are required.
i recently repaired a high end BMW with similar priced headlamps.
Mazda also has similar headlamps i their high end cars. some cost in excess of $3K EACH.
i would assume that all car and truck manufacturers have expensive parts like this in their cars.
Posted By: not_a_charger
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/15/20 03:33 PM
How about the cost of spraying the new Mazda 4 stage colors? There's a needless expense.
Posted By: Mr T2U
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/15/20 03:42 PM
i agree. painting 46G paint codes STINKS.
i have yet to be paid to do a 4 stage paint job in the 3 years this custom color has been on the market.
you also need a special paint gun with a 1.0 fluid tip to paint the base coat.
our shop usually paints at least 2 cars a month this color.
in my opinion it's nothing special that a 2 stage color can do.
a actually did a training video with PPG on painting this color when it first hit the market.
after several years of practice with this color i can SOMETIMES paint it in 2 stage, maybe about a 60/40 success rate in a out of the way areas.
Posted By: not_a_charger
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/15/20 03:47 PM
Yeah, the colors are nothing special. No need to make them 4 stage.
Posted By: 5thAve
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/15/20 04:27 PM
THe problem with using cameras in place of side view mirrors is people won't bother checking out the window to see what's going on before turning or changing lanes. See it all the time with backup cameras in parking lots where they're not shoulder checking to see what's around them they're backing straight out staring at their dash. At least that lexus one from the article has pretty decent view and puts the screen where it does give you the chance of seeing something out the window. Some of the ones they've tested/shown before the screen is on the dash where you're not turning sideways at all.
If you're a good driver you don't need all these extra features to be able to drive.
Posted By: not_a_charger
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/15/20 07:57 PM
If you're a good driver you don't need all these extra features to be able to drive.
Operator error and failure to properly utilize the technology is not a flaw in the technology. The best driver on the planet can't see everything a backup camera sees.
Posted By: jcc
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/15/20 09:10 PM
and i have been driving for 42 years. i look over my shoulder to check my blind spot multiple times a day, every day since i got my drivers license.
i have never rear ended anyone.
Well I been driving 54 years and I rear ended somebody when I turned my head when 16 to look at yellow poka dot bikini on Ft Lauderdale beach.
Point being , those are both anecdotal experiences, means little in the big picture.
so the concept that looking over the shoulder to check your blind spot will make you rear end someone is equally absurd.
Nope, and nobody said it was, my original point, not to repeat myself, anytime taking your eyes off the road in front of you, is less stopping distance you have for the unexpected, PERIOD. And nobody will ever admit post accident that was a contributing factor.
Since one only needs to misjudge one's stopping distance by a mere inch, and a single millesecond by itself for example at 60mph is greatet then that. I suspect most rear end accidents are because of a misjudgment more then a single inch.
in my opinion trying to check your blind spot by looking in the mirrors takes longer and is much more hazardous than just turning your head around to check your blind spot.
You should try to measure your opinion of time, also understanding, it takes a conscious decision first of which way to turn ones head, where to focus you eyes, focus your eyes, interpret the other cars, determine, thier positions, their relative speeds,,their intentions (are they also turning their heads, make sense of what you see, then decide its sufficient, turn your head back in the direction you are haeded, and refocus. I suspect just moving your eyes, is a factor 10? times faster and at 60 mph that could a lot of distance.
as the link i posted earlier. the Wisconsin, and probably every other state in the USA, DMV DRIVER TRAINING MANUAL RECOMMENDS looking over your shoulder to check your blind spot before changing lanes. it has been that way since i got my drivers license and probably been that way MUCH MUCH longer than that.
Guess they never drove a Class 8 with mirrors.
I have learned something here, I now understand why when I am passing someone in the right lane, behind is faster approaching traffic, and they dangerously dart between between me and the just pasted vehicle on my right, because I kinda frown on cutting off the right lane vehicles because some a hole likely is in a hurry and tailgating, and never sees me turn my head right, to see if I clear to merge back right, because I am too stupid to trust my mirror?. I use my turn signals, but you have to wait for them for the proper distance to move over. .Oh well.
Posted By: RangerDan440
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/15/20 10:41 PM
I'm seriously tired of everything being digitized, automated and connected. Do we really need 'smart' refrigerators now?
The less we as humans are required to do for ourselves, the less we will be able to do for ourselves. The more that our cars (and other appliances) do for us, the more we as drivers rely on our cars to do for us and that's dangerous; I will not trust a 4000 lb machine at 80 mph to do everything and tell me what to do. There is no replacement for a safe, conscientious driver. I'll turn around and look, thanks.
Posted By: Mr T2U
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/15/20 10:43 PM
and i have been driving for 42 years. i look over my shoulder to check my blind spot multiple times a day, every day since i got my drivers license.
i have never rear ended anyone.
Well I been driving 54 years and I rear ended somebody when I turned my head when 16 to look at yellow poka dot bikini on Ft Lauderdale beach.
Point being , those are both anecdotal experiences, means little in the big picture.
.
correct just differend driving experiences.
so the concept that looking over the shoulder to check your blind spot will make you rear end someone is equally absurd.
Nope, and nobody said it was, my original point, not to repeat myself, anytime taking your eyes off the road in front of you, is less stopping distance you have for the unexpected, PERIOD. And nobody will ever admit post accident that was a contributing factor.
Since one only needs to misjudge one's stopping distance by a mere inch, and a single millesecond by itself for example at 60mph is greatet then that. I suspect most rear end accidents are because of a misjudgment more then a single inch.
.
first line is incorrect. i posted that people should turn your head around and check your blind spot. not a charger posted This whole "turn your head around/look over your shoulder" nonsense is just that. It's never a good idea to do that.
the second point is correct. taking your eyes off the road for ANYTHING including checking your mirrors can be a contributing factor in a accident
.
in my opinion trying to check your blind spot by looking in the mirrors takes longer and is much more hazardous than just turning your head around to check your blind spot.
You should try to measure your opinion of time, also understanding, it takes a conscious decision first of which way to turn ones head, where to focus you eyes, focus your eyes, interpret the other cars, determine, thier positions, their relative speeds,,their intentions (are they also turning their heads, make sense of what you see, then decide its sufficient, turn your head back in the direction you are haeded, and refocus. I suspect just moving your eyes, is a factor 10? times faster and at 60 mph that could a lot of distance.
no you should actually check your concept of time. if you only use your mirrors in a car without a blind spot mirror on your regular mirror. you need to look TWICE at your mirror to see beside your car and then move your head and body to see the blind spot. just quickly turning your head takes less time than that.and to check your blind spot you only need to turn it a little, you can see ahead of you in your peripheral vision.
i see people doing this daily.just using their mirror changing lanes........... they signal to change lanes, you are in the lane next to them slightly behind their blind spot. you slightly slow down to let them change lanes. they check their mirror to see if it's clear. see you and slow down even more until you pass them. if they had actually turned their head around to check their blind spot they would have seen there was plenty of room to change lanes safely. they wouldn't have slowed down and traffic behind them wouldn't have slowed down and the traffic behind them wouldn't have slowed down. this is the biggest cause of what you probably know well, MERGING DELAYS.
as the link i posted earlier. the Wisconsin, and probably every other state in the USA, DMV DRIVER TRAINING MANUAL RECOMMENDS looking over your shoulder to check your blind spot before changing lanes. it has been that way since i got my drivers license and probably been that way MUCH MUCH longer than that.
Guess they never drove a Class 8 with mirrors.
if you had checked the link there was never a reference about driving a TRUCK. the manual linked is for beginning drivers learning to drive a CAR for the first time..
I have learned something here, I now understand why when I am passing someone in the right lane, behind is faster approaching traffic, and they dangerously dart between between me and the just pasted vehicle on my right, because I kinda frown on cutting off the right lane vehicles because some a hole likely is in a hurry and tailgating, and never sees me turn my head right, to see if I clear to merge back right, because I am too stupid to trust my mirror?. I use my turn signals, but you have to wait for them for the proper distance to move over. .Oh well.
i would assume that the describe situation is when driving a truck pulling a trailer. i have rarely see this happen when driving cars, trucks yes i have. i have never said or suggested anything about driving a truck pulling a trailer. all of my comments were about driving CARS.
Posted By: Mr T2U
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/15/20 10:56 PM
I'm seriously tired of everything being digitized, automated and connected. Do we really need 'smart' refrigerators now?
The less we as humans are required to do for ourselves, the less we will be able to do for ourselves. The more that our cars (and other appliances) do for us, the more we as drivers rely on our cars to do for us and that's dangerous; I will not trust a 4000 lb machine at 80 mph to do everything and tell me what to do. There is no replacement for a safe, conscientious driver. I'll turn around and look, thanks.
i agree. the more digitized we get it seems the dumber the population gets.
Posted By: 5thAve
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/16/20 12:55 AM
If you're a good driver you don't need all these extra features to be able to drive.
The best driver on the planet can't see everything a backup camera sees.
Maybe so but these features also make people lazy. Someone who shoulder checks and physically looks out there windows before backing up or turning is also going to notice something that they wouldn't if they solely depended on these cameras.
Posted By: Sniper
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/16/20 01:52 AM
Maybe so but these features also make people lazy. Someone who shoulder checks and physically looks out there windows before backing up or turning is also going to notice something that they wouldn't if they solely depended on these cameras.
That right there is the truth.
Posted By: PhillyRag
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/16/20 06:27 AM
I'm seriously tired of everything being digitized, automated and connected. Do we really need 'smart' refrigerators now?
Just because It-can-be-done, doesn't mean It should be done. Doesn't seem to be the prevailing mentality today with electronics.
The less we as humans are required to do for ourselves, the less we will be able to do for ourselves. The more that our cars (and other appliances) do for us, the more we as drivers rely on our cars to do for us and that's dangerous;
It's becoming Cars-Drive-People, not People-Drive-Cars. Can lead to a false belief (subconsciously) that Drive Skill-Awareness isn't needed.
[quote}I will not trust a 4000 lb machine at 80 mph to do everything and tell me what to do. There is no replacement for a safe, conscientious driver. I'll turn around and look, thanks.
So true. But the Autonomous crowd would disagree with you
Posted By: moparx
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/16/20 04:12 PM
I'm seriously tired of everything being digitized, automated and connected. The less we as humans are required to do for ourselves, the less we will be able to do for ourselves. The more that our cars (and other appliances) do for us, the more we as drivers rely on our cars to do for us and that's dangerous; I will not trust a 4000 lb machine at 80 mph to do everything and tell me what to do. There is no replacement for a safe, conscientious driver. I'll turn around and look, thanks.
gee, imagine that ! what will we, as a society, do if something jacks up our electronic gadgets [possible act of war ?] and NOTHING works ?
huh !
i have cars with point ignition plus i own mechanical can openers and a stove with a pilot light.
however, i probably won't be able to heat and cook on the stove because i won't be getting any natural gas from the gas company.
also, i won't be driving because the gas station doesn't have any hand crank pumps for their tanks.
a double edged sword for sure it is.
Posted By: BSharp
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/16/20 10:52 PM
And yet, here we are discussing it by a means that was almost unimaginable when we were teenagers.
Posted By: not_a_charger
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/16/20 11:08 PM
And yet, here we are discussing it by a means that was almost unimaginable when we were teenagers.
Posted By: PhillyRag
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/17/20 07:07 AM
And yet, here we are discussing it by a means that was almost unimaginable when we were teenagers.
If you use it as a Tool and Not as a Way-Of-Life, it works fine.
Just that it shouldn't "Consume" your Life, But "Enhance"it.
Posted By: jcc
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/17/20 09:15 AM
If you're a good driver you don't need all these extra features to be able to drive.
The best driver on the planet can't see everything a backup camera sees.
Maybe so but these features also make people lazy. Someone who shoulder checks and physically looks out there windows before backing up or turning is also going to notice something that they wouldn't if they solely depended on these cameras.
Backing up is usually at low speed, likely means you are not following anther vehicle, and means you have to decide if looking where you are headed is the best and safest solution.
I don't consider backing up and back cameras part of the side mirror replacement decision discussion here.
Furthermore, backup cameras can be located with better multiple views then any mirrors, and any driver attempted over the shoulder attempts.
The comment this thread is not about vehicles pulling doesn't square, in that some how using mirrors only is unsafe in cars, but pulling a trailer it is safe?
Posted By: not_a_charger
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/17/20 10:14 AM
And yet, here we are discussing it by a means that was almost unimaginable when we were teenagers.
If you use it as a Tool and Not as a Way-Of-Life, it works fine.
Just that it shouldn't "Consume" your Life, But "Enhance"it.
Such as a camera that has a broader range of vision than a mirror.
Posted By: 360view
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/17/20 11:25 AM
Should there be mandated mounting points for an old fashioned side view mirror on newer camera equipped vehicles?
How cheap would the entire camera/ view screen have to become to make repair a non-issue ... $200 or less.
My past experiments folding back the side view mirrors on a 1995 Ram lead me to believe that they reduce MPG by about 1 at 70 mph. Years later the software program Fuel Economy Calculator by Performance Trends Inc. seemed to confirm this was in the ballpark.
Nissan more recently has gone about 4 feet in front of their side mirrors and made a “flow modifier” to reduce the drag of the side view mirrors. One Nissan flow modifier was molded into the front headlight.. I suspect this does not work if there is more than a 10 mph side wind.
Posted By: moparx
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/17/20 03:39 PM
And yet, here we are discussing it by a means that was almost unimaginable when we were teenagers.
remember discussing Dick Tracy's wrist watch TV ?
Posted By: 5thAve
Re: Side view cameras in place of mirrors - 02/18/20 12:12 AM
If you're a good driver you don't need all these extra features to be able to drive.
The best driver on the planet can't see everything a backup camera sees.
Maybe so but these features also make people lazy. Someone who shoulder checks and physically looks out there windows before backing up or turning is also going to notice something that they wouldn't if they solely depended on these cameras.
Backing up is usually at low speed, likely means you are not following anther vehicle, and means you have to decide if looking where you are headed is the best and safest solution.
I don't consider backing up and back cameras part of the side mirror replacement decision discussion here.
Furthermore, backup cameras can be located with better multiple views then any mirrors, and any driver attempted over the shoulder attempts.
The comment this thread is not about vehicles pulling doesn't square, in that some how using mirrors only is unsafe in cars, but pulling a trailer it is safe?
Backing out of a parking spot or driveway onto a road you get a wider view of what's coming at you doing a shoulder check then what the camera picks up. They (backup cameras) are great for seeing what's below the mirror line or getting in/out of tight spaces. I'd consider it the same sort of deal as side mirror replacement and it came up within the first few posts.