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Opinions and experience on small insurance claim sought

Posted By: Charger69RT8

Opinions and experience on small insurance claim sought - 01/18/20 06:10 AM

The situation:
My daughter backed into my Challenger late last week. See pictures. Struggling on what to do. Daughter is 22, on our insurance, and a college student with one semester to go. No tickets, no prior accidents. Her vehicle has liability only. My car has full coverage. Insurance company is State Farm which has homeowners and cars. The last insurance claim I had was about 8 to 10 years ago for hail damage on the house roof. Different insurer at the time. I carry $1000 deductible for the lower premiums and have been money ahead over the years doing so.

The damage:
Two conventional estimates for repairs are $1500 & $1600. Both indicate fixing fender with spot color repair and full new clear coat on fender. Repair door and full color and clear on door. One paint-less estimate is $2500 which I like the idea of due to my fears of paint mismatch and getting worse over time. And the benefit of zero body filler / bondo. I plan to keep this car for a very long time.

The dilemma:
Do I submit it to insurance and roll the dice on what it will do to my rates? Or potentially more importantly what it may do to my daughters rates, as she will soon be on her own and having to pay the rates? Or just cover the $500 to $600 extra it will cost me and get it fixed via conventional means. If I go with paint-less the bill is going to be much harder to swallow, but it won't break me. Not a fan of spending what I don't have to / miser / cheep bastag. If it were yours, what would you do?

For those who've had recent experience or in the know please opine.

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Posted By: srt

Re: Opinions and experience on small insurance claim sought - 01/18/20 06:41 AM

Have you read your policy about first claim forgiveness?
If I were in your position I'd ask my agent your question, and likely opt to pay for repairs myself.
Safe claims for the big stuff.
Posted By: Hemi_Joel

Re: Opinions and experience on small insurance claim sought - 01/18/20 07:07 AM

No way would I turn in a claim to get $600. Not worth it. It WILL count against you. Maybe or maybe not right away, but it will send a strong signal to the underwriters that you are a claim filer. They consider that at renewal time. They look at claim frequency, claim severity, and overall premium/loss ratio. Suppose you get a $5000+ claim in the next 36 months. Then you will have 2 claims on your record, and the rates will for sure go up.

On the repairs, I would go paintless. Shop around a lot more, you can get it cheaper.
Posted By: dIc dOc Deity !

Re: Opinions and experience on small insurance claim sought - 01/18/20 07:23 AM

Insurance claim forgiveness? Yeah right ! For a business like this that can and will rate you NOT JUST BASED on your claim history BUT on your credit score ... whata buncha apimp

DONT get me started on these apimp .....

I’ve never had a-claim in 50 years (no wait - that’s my grandfather!) and I had the tenants(who were supposedly buying the place) in my Michigan property RIP ME OFF ... those a holes stole the whole kitchen and cleaned out my garage and barn !

Then the insurance company said I wasn’t properly insured !

Someone here said ... an insurance company is NOT your friend

I’m not done with them !
Posted By: not_a_charger

Re: Opinions and experience on small insurance claim sought - 01/18/20 10:34 AM

25+ year career in insurance claims, so take my advice for what you will.

Hemi Joel's explanation is spot-on accurate.

Quote
Have you read your policy about first claim forgiveness?


That's an endorsement, for which you pay an additional premium. Essentially, accident forgiveness means that you are pre-paying the premium increase that would occur if you had an accident...even if you never have an accident. No one should have this. Utter waste of money. Also, there's still a record in ISO of any claim you file, regardless of "forgiveness," meaning that if you switch companies, your new carrier will know about that loss, and will rate you accordingly.

Looking at the pix of the damage, if the dent in the door extends all the way to the edge, it's unlikely that PDR can get all off the damage out of the door. There's no access in that area, since that's where the skin is attached to the shell. The pix aren't very good, so I can't say for certain, but that's my first impression. If they can PDR the whole thing, and the paint transfer buffs out and didn't cut through the clear into the color coat, that would be a great idea, but only IF they can get ALL of the damage. Your concerns about a conventional repair aren't warranted, provided that you have a qualified shop do the repairs. Modern paints/clears are very durable when applied after proper prep, and color matching is not an issue for a good shop. Also...dirty little secret...there's already body filler in your car anyway...you just don't know it.

Also, a general statement...If any PDR tech ever wants to drill holes for access, or separate components that have foam insulation between them (such as the door skin and side impact beam), tell them to take a hike, Drilling a hole for that damage isn't feasible, but I've seen them do it in other areas. Trading one problem for an even worse problem.


Me? No way am I filing a claim for that.
Posted By: HarryM

Re: Opinions and experience on small insurance claim sought - 01/18/20 01:32 PM


No matter what the insurance company says...You will get charged more down the road! Just pay to have it fixed & move on. If you claim it with State Farm, you will lose one of your discounts, they claim they have been giving you "accident-free"
Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: Opinions and experience on small insurance claim sought - 01/18/20 02:24 PM

Having had Snake Farm as an Auto Insurer in the past and having a claim "handled" by them,...I'd suck up the loss from my own pocket in your situation IMHO
Posted By: TB3CUDA

Re: Opinions and experience on small insurance claim sought - 01/18/20 02:25 PM

this is why insurance companys make big money,have people affraid to make claims,what is insurance for,accidents,i just filed a claim on our challenger its a lease,and will be going back when lease is up, wife scapped the from lower spoiler had the lease co inspect the car,after reading there report on line they are charging us $305 for a new front spoiler,you cant even see the scuff.so we call haggerty who insures it,sent them a link for the report had a check with in the week. was told a long time ago to shop every 2 years for insurance rates,if you watch tv every other commercial is for insurance buying for your business.file get your money if they raise it find new insurance co that wants you as a customer.our home owners did the same thing came out took pics of our property,had a parts car out back on the 4 acres we have,they also got within 10 feet of our front slider and 1 of our 3 german shepards was doing her job barking at them(dangerous dog according to them),they raised our rates from $500 a year to $3500 a year,double middle fingers to them and found the same home owners coverage with the dogs on them for $650 from another ins co.

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Posted By: Charger69RT8

Re: Opinions and experience on small insurance claim sought - 01/18/20 03:31 PM

Thank you to ALL who replied. That is exactly what I was hoping for. I greatly appreciate everyone's perspective. Moparts is great!
Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: Opinions and experience on small insurance claim sought - 01/18/20 04:20 PM

I agree with others.....do not turn it in for a claim. I have SERIOUS doubts paintless dent removal can be successful with that. The paint Is ‘broken’ as they say. I would go for a conventional fix, but make sure they are going to spend some time pulling the damage and not just a quick mud fill.
Posted By: gtx6970

Re: Opinions and experience on small insurance claim sought - 01/18/20 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by Hemi_Joel
No way would I turn in a claim to get $600. Not worth it. It WILL count against you. Maybe or maybe not right away, but it will send a strong signal to the underwriters that you are a claim filer. They consider that at renewal time. They look at claim frequency, claim severity, and overall premium/loss ratio. Suppose you get a $5000+ claim in the next 36 months. Then you will have 2 claims on your record, and the rates will for sure go up.


^
this 100%

to basically net a $600 difference? Not a chance
. I can assure you the Insurance Co WILL get it back . one way or another sooner or later

BUT ,, what I would do is maybe split it with my daughter. If the money comes out of her pocket. She WILL look closer / drive safer because of it. Just MY twocents
Posted By: second 70

Re: Opinions and experience on small insurance claim sought - 01/18/20 05:15 PM

That extra $600 you pay out of your pocket will be the best investment you will ever make.
Posted By: jcc

Re: Opinions and experience on small insurance claim sought - 01/18/20 06:27 PM

For God sakes man, do absolutely nothing, even just calling your insurance company with a question, is a black mark on your record.

Everything they do is seen as an opportunity to raise your rates now or in the future, and they are exempt from normal collusion restrictions, besides huge lobby efforts.
Posted By: 5thAve

Re: Opinions and experience on small insurance claim sought - 01/18/20 09:09 PM

For that repair price pay for yourself to fix it. It'll be cheaper then having your premiums going up.
I don't know how successful paintless dent repair is going to be at that spot either. The high spot in the crease is because of the inner door structure and they usually can't get to those areas too well. A good painter should be be able to match that without any problems.
Posted By: finn

Re: Opinions and experience on small insurance claim sought - 01/19/20 02:13 PM

State Farm will give you one or two Mulligans, can’t remember which, before the accident counts against you. The accident stays with you for a three year period, then drops off your record.
Posted By: not_a_charger

Re: Opinions and experience on small insurance claim sought - 01/19/20 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by finn
State Farm will give you one or two Mulligans, can’t remember which, before the accident counts against you. The accident stays with you for a three year period, then drops off your record.


None of this is correct.
Posted By: Hemi_Joel

Re: Opinions and experience on small insurance claim sought - 01/19/20 08:38 PM

Here's an example of how this can bite you. in our state there is a law that says your insurance company can't count windshield replacements against you. so my wife got two windshields replaced in two years and I didn't think anything of it. That was from State farm. Then Farm Bureau came along and gave me a really good rate on my commercial building and wanted to write my auto. They gave me an initial quote on the auto which blew State farm out of the water. When I said yes, they needed to collect our drivers license information and check the claim history. He got back to me and said they wouldn't write us because of the glass claims. I said that I thought in Minnesota they weren't allowed to hold that against you. They said that they couldn't use the glass claims to determine the rate, so they just chose not to write the policy at all. So it cost me a bunch of money to have to stay with State farm instead of switch to Farm Bureau.
Posted By: not_a_charger

Re: Opinions and experience on small insurance claim sought - 01/19/20 08:44 PM

Quote
They said that they couldn't use the glass claims to determine the rate


That is correct. MN is a very consumer-friendly state with regard to car insurance. The law you refer to is designed to prevent your existing insurer from increasing your rates due to glass claims. If you shop for a new carrier, the loss frequency itself will follow you, as I mentioned in my initial reply. ISO has a record of everything.
Posted By: 5thAve

Re: Opinions and experience on small insurance claim sought - 01/20/20 01:44 AM

Originally Posted by finn
State Farm will give you one or two Mulligans, can’t remember which, before the accident counts against you. The accident stays with you for a three year period, then drops off your record.


State Farm usually includes something as part of your premium to protect your rate if you have an accident in X number of years so you rate might not go up but it still counts against you and will show up if you shop around or if you have another claim.
Posted By: coronetville

Re: Opinions and experience on small insurance claim sought - 01/20/20 03:34 AM

eat the 600$ eat at micky ds for a month or two
Posted By: not_a_charger

Re: Opinions and experience on small insurance claim sought - 01/20/20 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by 5thAve
Originally Posted by finn
State Farm will give you one or two Mulligans, can’t remember which, before the accident counts against you. The accident stays with you for a three year period, then drops off your record.


State Farm usually includes something as part of your premium to protect your rate if you have an accident in X number of years so you rate might not go up but it still counts against you and will show up if you shop around or if you have another claim.


No they don't. You have to pay for that. I explained this in my first reply in this thread.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Opinions and experience on small insurance claim sought - 01/20/20 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by not_a_charger
Originally Posted by finn
State Farm will give you one or two Mulligans, can’t remember which, before the accident counts against you. The accident stays with you for a three year period, then drops off your record.


None of this is correct.


I've got State Farm for multiple cars and home owners. A few years ago they had to pay out about $2500 for something I had almost nothing to do with. Longer tangent explanation and never mind the detail for now. I've been getting discounts for multi-policy, multi-vehicle and accident free for years, not paying any sort of fee for accident forgiveness - at least not anything that gets line itemized on the premium notice.

What I was told by the local agent at the time: any vehicle continuously insured by them for (8) years automatically gets accident forgiveness. There is a limit to the number of claims over some period of time that this applies to. At least (2) claims, I think maybe (3) and I don't remember the size of the window. Didn't get in to how long after exceeding that number it takes to get the forgiveness back. I did verify that the forgiveness thing is tied to the vehicle and not the policy or driver. After they made the problem go away my premium didn't change at all and it's the last I heard of it.

My girl has Progressive on her driver and last year she had a parking lot bump with a friend of hers. The quandary was to just pay it out of pocket and avoid the insurance company hassle or file the claim and roll the dice on the premium bump because it was like a $1200 quote on whatever she backed in to. Oddly enough, hardly a scuff on her car but nevermind that too. As with most insurance web sites, the progressive one was completely useless for searching for the fine print. What I did come across was some Pennsylvania state insurance regulations. Bottom line being that in PA the insurance companies are not legally permitted to raise your rates until they pay out X number of dollars over Y number of months for claims. Whatever the dollar limit it was higher than the claim at hand so again, they made the problem go away and no premium changes since.

Your mileage may vary and objects in mirror may be doing something totally stupid.
Posted By: not_a_charger

Re: Opinions and experience on small insurance claim sought - 01/20/20 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by RWG75
Originally Posted by not_a_charger
Originally Posted by finn
State Farm will give you one or two Mulligans, can’t remember which, before the accident counts against you. The accident stays with you for a three year period, then drops off your record.


None of this is correct.


I've got State Farm for multiple cars and home owners. A few years ago they had to pay out about $2500 for something I had almost nothing to do with. Longer tangent explanation and never mind the detail for now. I've been getting discounts for multi-policy, multi-vehicle and accident free for years, not paying any sort of fee for accident forgiveness - at least not anything that gets line itemized on the premium notice.

What I was told by the local agent at the time: any vehicle continuously insured by them for (8) years automatically gets accident forgiveness. There is a limit to the number of claims over some period of time that this applies to. At least (2) claims, I think maybe (3) and I don't remember the size of the window. Didn't get in to how long after exceeding that number it takes to get the forgiveness back. I did verify that the forgiveness thing is tied to the vehicle and not the policy or driver. After they made the problem go away my premium didn't change at all and it's the last I heard of it.

My girl has Progressive on her driver and last year she had a parking lot bump with a friend of hers. The quandary was to just pay it out of pocket and avoid the insurance company hassle or file the claim and roll the dice on the premium bump because it was like a $1200 quote on whatever she backed in to. Oddly enough, hardly a scuff on her car but nevermind that too. As with most insurance web sites, the progressive one was completely useless for searching for the fine print. What I did come across was some Pennsylvania state insurance regulations. Bottom line being that in PA the insurance companies are not legally permitted to raise your rates until they pay out X number of dollars over Y number of months for claims. Whatever the dollar limit it was higher than the claim at hand so again, they made the problem go away and no premium changes since.

Your mileage may vary and objects in mirror may be doing something totally stupid.


Now, see, THAT is the kind of specific information that provides an informed answer. thumbs And there are instances where someone has a claim, and their rates are not impacted, with or without any type of accident forgiveness.

With regard to a vehicle being insured with them for 8 continuous years, and not being tied to the driver or policy...that seems very odd. What if you insure it with them for 8 years, and then I buy it from you and immediately insure it with them? Would it qualify? I know you don't know the answer (neither do I)...just posing the question in general, because the explanation you were given sounds strange. Not impossible...just strange.

As far as how long it "stays on your record," that would be something that would be set by each state's statute. An insurer could choose to stop considering prior losses earlier than the time frame specified by the state, but would not be able to go beyond that time frame.

The PA insurance regulations are another great example of how there are 51 sets of rules for auto insurance in the US..each state, plus D.C.

Make no mistake, everyone...if there is any "built-in" accident forgiveness in your policy, there are premium $$ "built-in" to what you are paying for your policy. cool Re-reading 5thave's post, and my reply to it, I think this may be what he was saying, and I may have misunderstood him initially.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Opinions and experience on small insurance claim sought - 01/20/20 06:05 PM

The way I understood it was a vehicle in your name and on your policy for 8 years. If it moves to somebody else's policy the clock starts again. When I said not tied to the policy I skipped the fine print about multiple vehicles on the same policy. On one of my policies I have a vehicle that's been covered for at least 10 yrs so it has the forgiveness. If I add another one it doesn't get that feature until it's been covered on that policy for 8 years.

The part that seemed strange to me is who keeps a car for 8 years anymore?
Posted By: not_a_charger

Re: Opinions and experience on small insurance claim sought - 01/20/20 06:09 PM

That makes much more sense.

I'm still not convinced that you were given accurate information, because it still seems strange, even with the clarification. Not questioning you...questioning what you were told. It's possible, don't get me wrong. I've just never heard of anything like that before. The 8 year time frame is odd for the reason that you mentioned. Then again, SF is getting crushed by Geico and Progressive, losing market share to them, and no longer getting the 3rd and 4th generation "legacy" customers that allowed SF to be successful despite being pretty bad at underwriting.
Posted By: DrCharles

Re: Opinions and experience on small insurance claim sought - 01/20/20 07:32 PM

Any idea how it works with comprehensive claims (do those make my rate go up?) work

Last year I had two vehicles damaged by a severe hail storm, and a month ago I hit a large armadillo (with a third vehicle) at 55 mph, which caused $2400 worth of damage to the front air dam, fog light, brake cooling ducts, etc. I was only out the $100 deductible... so far whistling
Posted By: not_a_charger

Re: Opinions and experience on small insurance claim sought - 01/20/20 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by DrCharles
Any idea how it works with comprehensive claims (do those make my rate go up?) work

Last year I had two vehicles damaged by a severe hail storm, and a month ago I hit a large armadillo (with a third vehicle) at 55 mph, which caused $2400 worth of damage to the front air dam, fog light, brake cooling ducts, etc. I was only out the $100 deductible... so far whistling


If the state allows premium increases for comp claims, they can make your rates go up, even for 1 claim. 3 comp claims in less than a year is not going to be good for your rate, I wouldn't think. It will certainly have an impact should you shop for insurance.
Posted By: DrCharles

Re: Opinions and experience on small insurance claim sought - 01/20/20 08:01 PM

I'll look into it, but I figured as much... insurance is a win-win game (for the insurance companies, not the insured!). Make a claim, customer gets dropped or rates go up. Many claims statewide due to weather patterns (like we had a couple years ago) - raise everyone's rates. Invest the revenue from premiums - bad investments lose money? No problem, raise everyone's rates some more! down
I don't believe the state insurance commission has any real power either - they do whatever the big underwriters want them to do. Another tail wagging the dog.
Posted By: 5thAve

Re: Opinions and experience on small insurance claim sought - 01/20/20 11:44 PM

Originally Posted by not_a_charger
Originally Posted by 5thAve
Originally Posted by finn
State Farm will give you one or two Mulligans, can’t remember which, before the accident counts against you. The accident stays with you for a three year period, then drops off your record.


State Farm usually includes something as part of your premium to protect your rate if you have an accident in X number of years so you rate might not go up but it still counts against you and will show up if you shop around or if you have another claim.


No they don't. You have to pay for that. I explained this in my first reply in this thread.


What you said in your first reply is exactly what I meant.
Posted By: not_a_charger

Re: Opinions and experience on small insurance claim sought - 01/21/20 12:10 AM

Originally Posted by 5thAve
Originally Posted by not_a_charger
Originally Posted by 5thAve
Originally Posted by finn
State Farm will give you one or two Mulligans, can’t remember which, before the accident counts against you. The accident stays with you for a three year period, then drops off your record.


State Farm usually includes something as part of your premium to protect your rate if you have an accident in X number of years so you rate might not go up but it still counts against you and will show up if you shop around or if you have another claim.


No they don't. You have to pay for that. I explained this in my first reply in this thread.


What you said in your first reply is exactly what I meant.


Yeah, I figured that out after RW's reply. thumbs
Posted By: 360view

Re: Opinions and experience on small insurance claim sought - 01/21/20 11:47 AM

So, considering all this
and the benefits of paying less than X $ damage amounts out of pocket yourself,
at what time period ( or vehicle resale value) should all collision coverage be dropped?

When a new vehicle is 3 years old, 5, 7 etc?
Posted By: not_a_charger

Re: Opinions and experience on small insurance claim sought - 01/21/20 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by 360view
So, considering all this
and the benefits of paying less than X $ damage amounts out of pocket yourself,
at what time period ( or vehicle resale value) should all collision coverage be dropped?

When a new vehicle is 3 years old, 5, 7 etc?




Depends upon the value of the car. Remember, you're insuring against total losses as well, not just repairable damage. Also, it depends upon how much you are paying. For example, I paid $3,800 for a very clean, low mileage 2006 Civic for my 16 year old daughter to drive. I could probably sell it for $4,500-$4,800. It cost me $400/year to add her and the car to my insurance. Comp/collision are about $180 of that amount. For me, it's worth the $180/year to keep comp/collision on a car primarily driven by a 16 year old.

My wife's 2013 Subaru got smashed in the side in January 2019. Did $8,800 in damage. We turned that in to our insurance company without hesitation.
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