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Paint guys: help with fisheyes
Posted By: intragration
Paint guys: help with fisheyes - 08/13/11 08:46 PM
I am having an unusual problem, it seems to be getting worse. Whenever I paint anything lately, I seem to get a lot of fisheyes on it, I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. I never used to have this problem. This is in a relatively clean garage. I've used denatured alcohol or acetone as surface prep. I haven't been doing any detailing or using any silicone products. I do wear neoprene gloves, without powder. Tools and sandpaper have not been contaminated with anything. Any thoughts on this? Should I be prepping with something else? I've used grease and wax remover, but it seems to evaporate much more slowly. I recently painted a part, it fisheyed. Cleaned it with Acetone, tried again, more fisheyes in the same places. Tried again, same thing. Any ideas? Thanks.
Posted By: screamindriver
Re: Paint guys: help with fisheyes - 08/13/11 09:12 PM
...One thought is to make sure the compressor is'nt sending any oil/contaminants through the line...Even a small amount will cause big troubles... Are you heating the garage ??? Could be some type of airborne contaminants related to that ...What about the gun ??? Good and clean ??? Used any lubricants on it ??? Depending on what you're spraying you can add the fisheye eliminator but you'd be masking the real problem and it may not even do the trick depending on what the trouble really is...
Posted By: 70Cuda383
Re: Paint guys: help with fisheyes - 08/13/11 09:33 PM
That was my thought... Petroleum getting in the paint... WD40 or other light lube on the gun? Oil from compressor in the lines? But, I'm no painter, only done 2 projects do far and haven't had any fisheyes
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Paint guys: help with fisheyes - 08/13/11 10:00 PM
I would have to agree with the oil particles or products of combustion getting into the paint. If that is not the case and your place and tools are free and clear of that stuff, I would think it would have to be a reaction with the prior paint on the part. Is this happening with a bare metal piece or when you are applying the color over the primer?
Posted By: wicked
Re: Paint guys: help with fisheyes - 08/13/11 10:05 PM
go back to wax and grease remover, it dries slower so you put on wet with one towel and dry with another,stuff that dries too fast doesn't let you wipe the contaminants off. you could be leaving contaminants during sanding that the degreaser won't touch, such as a hand lotion/cleaner you might be using, the source of fisheyes can be frustrating, some one spraying armour all or wd from 500 feet away can do this. Have to be more specific,over the whole panel, isolated areas, over primed areas?
What filtration do you have on your compressor? You useing a dessicant drier at the gun also?
Posted By: 68CoronetRT
Re: Paint guys: help with fisheyes - 08/13/11 11:46 PM
Quote:
go back to wax and grease remover, it dries slower so you put on wet with one towel and dry with another,stuff that dries too fast doesn't let you wipe the contaminants off. you could be leaving contaminants during sanding that the degreaser won't touch, such as a hand lotion/cleaner you might be using, the source of fisheyes can be frustrating, some one spraying armour all or wd from 500 feet away can do this. Have to be more specific,over the whole panel, isolated areas, over primed areas?
What filtration do you have on your compressor? You useing a dessicant drier at the gun also?
Agree completely. Also make sure you are not spraying Armor-all or similar products anywhere near the paint booth. That stuff is fish eye city.
Posted By: intragration
Re: Paint guys: help with fisheyes - 08/14/11 01:17 AM
I'm sorry to say that I'm an ultra amateur, but in this case, it simplifies troubleshooting, because I'm talking about rattle cans. (see attachment of previous project car, rattle cans aren't THAT bad for small areas...) Different cans, different types of paint, sometimes paint, sometimes even the primer fisheyes. There's definitely no Armor All being used. I think the suggestion to use the grease remover and then wipe it off is probably my next step. I use a lot of acetone or alcohol, but it does evaporate quickly, so it may not be working. I'll give the grease remover a shot next time I'm painting and report back. Thank you very much.
Posted By: 68CoronetRT
Re: Paint guys: help with fisheyes - 08/14/11 01:30 AM
Unless you are having them specially mixed by a jobber those rattle cans are not really compatible with the factory paint on the car.
I have a feeling you already know that.
Posted By: wicked
Re: Paint guys: help with fisheyes - 08/14/11 02:01 AM
Quote:
Unless you are having them specially mixed by a jobber those rattle cans are not really compatible with the factory paint on the car.
I have a feeling you already know that.
I totally agree.
Posted By: elitecustombody
Re: Paint guys: help with fisheyes - 08/14/11 04:50 AM
First step to a better finish is to stop using acetone,because it leaves film and it also can re-active,break down the substrate,use prep solvent,wax & grease remover. Second, some pruducts are just not compatable,especially when applied very heavy.But you have to be seriously doing something wrong when you manage to have fish-eyes with rattle can paint.
Posted By: 68SportSatvert
Re: Paint guys: help with fisheyes - 08/14/11 05:21 AM
Not sure where you are exactly but first question I would ask is if your garage is climate controlled. Thing to remember is it has been VERY hot in many areas this summer...hotter than usual. That coupled with higher humidity my be the culprit.
Posted By: Steve340
Re: Paint guys: help with fisheyes - 08/14/11 07:27 PM
What brand paint are you using. I had the same exact problem last week with Krylon. It kept getting fisheyes in the paint. I then went and bought some Rustoleum and the problem stopped.
Posted By: intragration
Re: Paint guys: help with fisheyes - 08/14/11 08:46 PM
Very interesting, I am ALSO using Krylon... I've had really good experience with it up to this point, I still think this may be a prep issue and not a paint issue. No climate control of any kind in the garage. As for the compatibility of that paint in the picture, I did have it specially mixed, it was just Centari put into rattle cans. It will never match exactly, but it can get pretty close.
Posted By: Steve340
Re: Paint guys: help with fisheyes - 08/14/11 11:46 PM
I had been using an old can of Krylon that was over a year old and it worked fine. When I ran out of paint and went to get new paint, that's when the problem started.
Posted By: Wild_Hemi
Re: Paint guys: help with fisheyes - 08/15/11 02:47 AM
Fish eye, If your using an air compressor make sure your oil does not have defoamer in it. It usually is Silicone based and sprays in the air when compressor is running. They add it to oil.
Posted By: elitecustombody
Re: Paint guys: help with fisheyes - 08/15/11 03:54 AM
Quote:
Fish eye, If your using an air compressor make sure your oil does not have defoamer in it. It usually is Silicone based and sprays in the air when compressor is running. They add it to oil.
he's using rattle can paint,not spray gun and air compressor
Posted By: Kern Dog
Re: Paint guys: help with fisheyes - 08/15/11 08:39 AM
I read a post on DodgeCharger.com about this. The OP was also having problems with Krylon. He said that he contacted Krylon directly and learned that due to EPA regulations, the formulas for their paints had to be changed. Maybe this explains why the old stuff worked and the new stuff sucks. Yaaaay Environmental weenies!
Posted By: 340SIX
Re: Paint guys: help with fisheyes - 08/15/11 11:16 PM
Quote:
First step to a better finish is to stop using acetone,because it leaves film and it also can re-active,break down the substrate,use prep solvent,wax & grease remover. Second, some products are just not compatible,especially when applied very heavy.But you have to be seriously doing something wrong when you manage to have fish-eyes with rattle can paint.
I agree with this also the reason the wax grease remover and or prep takes awhile to dry is you apply it and then wipe it off with a second clean white rag while still wet so you remove what was dissolved
Posted By: OLD318
Re: Paint guys: help with fisheyes - 08/16/11 12:31 AM
1. What type of substrate are you spraying over?
OEM mild steel?
hard Plastic?
Fibreglass?
cast pot metal? etc?
2. What type of finish are you spraying the rattle can
(Centari acrylic enamel) over?
Is it Original OEM paint?
- if so what is the orignal paint, lacquer, enamel, single
stage bc/cc?
Is it After market primer?
- Acryllic lacquer primer
1K urethane
2K urethane etc..
3. Have you tried the rattle cans on something else?
(to rule out contaminants in the rattle cans)
Posted By: Pacnorthcuda
Re: Paint guys: help with fisheyes - 08/16/11 01:08 AM
I just read through all the responses and I have an idea not yet mentioned. Next time you work on prepping an item do NOT wear the gloves.
I have had one brand of gloves result in horrible fisheyes. I verified it by stripping off the paint and degreasing the part (I use lacquer thinner) WITHOUT wearing the gloves...same part, same paint, same day, no fisheyes.
Give it a try.
Posted By: Kern Dog
Re: Paint guys: help with fisheyes - 08/16/11 01:41 AM
This post reminded me of an episode of CSI.... you look for a common denominator and zone in....
Posted By: crlush
Re: Paint guys: help with fisheyes - 08/17/11 01:13 AM
do you armor all your steering wheel on your cars? when I was in autobody class in highschool the teacher said he had the same problem, no matter how clean everything is he kept getting fish eyes, turned out he started using armor all in the interior of his car, and get out of it and start working on the cars rubbing his hands all over them. just a thought, I never really had trouble with fisheyes, but I buy wax and greese remover by the gallon, wipe everything down before you start any work on anything, then after that you should be good till your ready for paint.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Paint guys: help with fisheyes - 08/18/11 02:16 PM
Quote:
I had been using an old can of Krylon that was over a year old and it worked fine. When I ran out of paint and went to get new paint, that's when the problem started.
Steve,
I was the one who posted the topic about the Krylon issues over on Dodgecharger.com. The new Krylon paint is NOT compatible with the old paint from over a year ago. They changed the make up of the paint to a different base and you will have problems with it. Krylon used to be a fantastic paint, now I have really nothing good to say about it.