Posted By: RestoreCuda
Idle Stop Solenoids - 05/31/11 06:52 PM
Are Hemi and Six Pack idle stop solenoids the same, in 1970? If so can anyone help with a part number?
Idle Stop Solenoids
Posted By: ademon
Re: Idle Stop Solenoids - 05/31/11 07:26 PM
Here is one i just picked up for my 71 340, i think 70 is the same for Hemi and 6 BBL #DR1114429 . Good Luck!! took me a few years to find one.
.jpg "6659612-340solinoid003(1280x960).jpg")
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Idle Stop Solenoids - 05/31/11 08:01 PM
Yes, DR1114429 is the correct number for 1970&71 Hemi, and 440 Six Pack.... and 1971 340 engines......Which of course means that us lowly 71 340 owners need to fight it out with the Hemi guys when it comes time to buy one (not usually a cheap adventure!).
*I can restore most of them to look new again, even one as crusty as shown above, some minor pitting may show afterwards if the core is corroded badly
*I can restore most of them to look new again, even one as crusty as shown above, some minor pitting may show afterwards if the core is corroded badly
Posted By: RestoreCuda
Re: Idle Stop Solenoids - 05/31/11 08:05 PM
Thanks I appreciate it.
Posted By: NV69B7RR
Re: Idle Stop Solenoids - 06/01/11 02:14 AM
Whats the going rate for one of those solenoids in nice shape? $120 or so? 
Since I'm one of those lowly 340 guys looking to buy one..
Since I'm one of those lowly 340 guys looking to buy one..
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Idle Stop Solenoids - 06/01/11 02:26 AM
I restored 3 used ones I had in the past month, all went for between $375.00-$500.00 based on condition (resto service cost is $75.00, or free with a carb restoration). I've personally paid over $600.00 for an NOS one in mint shape and know another buyer who bought 3 NOS ones recently (each with a fair amount of whitish corrosion on the silver case) who paid over $1000.00 for the lot. So yes, these suckers can get expensive!
In my experience you luck out and find one cheap in a parts lot or a swap meet from an unknowledgable seller or you pay full market value once it's been id'd and hits the open market. Not many land in the middle.
In my experience you luck out and find one cheap in a parts lot or a swap meet from an unknowledgable seller or you pay full market value once it's been id'd and hits the open market. Not many land in the middle.
Posted By: 6T9Hemi
Re: Idle Stop Solenoids - 06/01/11 03:02 AM
Can someone explain the function of the idle stops?
Posted By: MLR426
Re: Idle Stop Solenoids - 06/01/11 03:25 AM
Quote:
I restored 3 used ones I had in the past month, all went for between $375.00-$500.00 based on condition (resto service cost is $75.00, or free with a carb restoration). I've personally paid over $600.00 for an NOS one in mint shape and know another buyer who bought 3 NOS ones recently (each with a fair amount of whitish corrosion on the silver case) who paid over $1000.00 for the lot. So yes, these suckers can get expensive!
In my experience you luck out and find one cheap in a parts lot or a swap meet from an unknowledgable seller or you pay full market value once it's been id'd and hits the open market. Not many land in the middle.
Scott did an excellent job on my solenoid, and by the way Scott, looking at your post you still owe me a future rebuild on a solenoid since you restored the pair of hemi carbs for my convertible. One carb rebuild equals one free solenoid rebuild right ??
Just a joke. I believe I have a few solenoids left over.. logan426
Posted By: NV69B7RR
Re: Idle Stop Solenoids - 06/01/11 03:40 AM
If you're gonna play, you gotta pay....
Thanks for the answer!
Thanks for the answer!
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Idle Stop Solenoids - 06/01/11 03:47 AM
Quote:
One carb rebuild equals one free solenoid rebuild right ?? Just a joke. I believe I have a few solenoids left over..
Yes, that assumption is correct, even past customers qualify, one solenoid per application is on the house.
Posted By: MLR426
Re: Idle Stop Solenoids - 06/01/11 04:02 AM
Quote:
Quote:
One carb rebuild equals one free solenoid rebuild right ?? Just a joke. I believe I have a few solenoids left over..
Yes, that assumption is correct, even past customers qualify, one solenoid per application is on the house.
Oh now you re-word and say by application uh !!
Multiple carbs don't count now.. Just screwin with you Scott, and by the way I'm always a current customer as I never left you to seek services else where because you never gave me a reason too.
logan426
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Idle Stop Solenoids - 06/01/11 04:03 AM
Here's a step by step of a typical restoration, aside from plating most can do these themselves if you are careful. This unit is not a DR1114429 but the process is exactly the same.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Idle Stop Solenoids - 06/01/11 04:04 AM
2
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Idle Stop Solenoids - 06/01/11 04:04 AM
3
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Idle Stop Solenoids - 06/01/11 04:05 AM
4
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Idle Stop Solenoids - 06/01/11 04:05 AM
5, See that copper wire? It's VERY delicate, DON'T break it!
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Idle Stop Solenoids - 06/01/11 04:06 AM
6 Be careful with the washer, the end of the copper wire is attached to it and nothing else holds it in place on the end of the coil, put the entire assembly, including the washer left in place as shown here, in a safe place for reassembly later.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Idle Stop Solenoids - 06/01/11 04:06 AM
7
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Idle Stop Solenoids - 06/01/11 04:07 AM
8, The brass plunger is cleaned in a citrus based cleaner and the case is polished to bare metal on a wheel before being sent out for plating
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Idle Stop Solenoids - 06/01/11 04:07 AM
9, the plunger is then hand polished with Wenol to a shine, rubber is cleaned with solvent and dressed with a non shiney rubber protectant
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Idle Stop Solenoids - 06/01/11 04:07 AM
10, be sure to slide the small return spring back inside the magnet before sliding it into the wire core housing.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Idle Stop Solenoids - 06/01/11 04:08 AM
11 After the can comes back from the plater reassemble in the reverse order. To retain the assembly you can bend the crimped areas back over to retain the washer and use a bit of JB Weld or similar to lock it into place, be sure it's set all the way into the can. Screwing the plunger in and pulling it in helps get it into place.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Idle Stop Solenoids - 06/01/11 04:08 AM
Here is an exploded view of a typical solenoids internals, aside from the outer casing mounting brackets they all have the same configuration. The reproductions on the market look the same externally with a few minor differences in the rubber boots, but internally they went cheap on the copper and they are weaker than originals, failures are VERY common with them.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Idle Stop Solenoids *DELETED* - 06/01/11 04:08 AM
Post deleted by ScottSmith_Harms
Posted By: demonH1B
Re: Idle Stop Solenoids - 06/01/11 04:08 PM
Can anyone go into detail on the round plunger top vs the hex top
with wire connector. Which were used on what cars?
Does it call for a different number?
with wire connector. Which were used on what cars?
Does it call for a different number?
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Idle Stop Solenoids - 06/01/11 06:54 PM
Each application calls for.a specific DR#
Posted By: RodStRace
Re: Idle Stop Solenoids - 06/01/11 07:08 PM
Quote:
Can someone explain the function of the idle stops?
There is a base idle (solenoid not energized) so the car will shut off without dieseling. This is usually around 500-700 RPM
With the solenoid energized, it pushes the plunger out, raising the idle so it idles smooth.
This is usually around 1000-1100 RPM.
Posted By: Moparlar
Re: Idle Stop Solenoids - 06/01/11 09:14 PM
Quote:
Each application calls for.a specific DR#
Is there a list of what number for what application. And I went and looked at mine and I have a hex head one with no number on it. What would that fit.
Larry
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Idle Stop Solenoids - 06/01/11 10:08 PM
There is no (reliable) list that I've seen publicized but a few of us here on Moparts posted one a while back, I'll see if I can dig it up. In general, most cans with no stamped number and a small brass hex head are generic replacements.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Idle Stop Solenoids - 06/02/11 01:42 AM
Here is the list from the old post here on Moparts.
3514520 Early (AVS)
3549318 Late (AVS)
DR1114421
70 440 4737S,4739S, 4741S, 4740S
Hex head with cap, no integral bracket
3514892 (AVS)
DR1114442
70 340 4936S, 4937S
Round head, no integral bracket
3438303 (AVS)
DR1114442 or DR1114447 (Have reports of both)
70 440 4738S
71 440 4968S
Hex head with cap, no integral bracket
3438777 (Holley)
DR1114441
71 383 4667A, 4734A, 4668A, 4735A, 6191A, 6193A
Hex head with cap, no integral bracket, but includes wiring harness
2875975 (Holley, AFB)
DR1114429
70 440+6 4375A, 4734A, 4376A, 4144A
70 340+6 4791A, 4792A
70 426 4745S, 4746S
71 426 4969S, 4970S
Round head with integral bracket
3438338 (Holley)
DR1114443
71 440+6 4669A, 4670A
Hex head with cap
3412059 (Holley)
DR1114420
69 440+6
Hex head with cap
3438333 (Same as 2875975) (TQ)
DR1114429
71 340 4972S, 4973S
Round head with integral bracket
Bill Rolik
From an article by Frank Badelson:
69-1/2 440-6: DR1114420 (hex head)
70 340 4 bbl: DR1114442 (round head)
70 340-6 and 440-6 and hemi: DR1114429 (round head)
70 440 4 bbl: DR1114421 (hex head)
71 440 4 bbl: DR1114447 (hex head)
71 440-6: DR1114443 (hex head)
3514520 Early (AVS)
3549318 Late (AVS)
DR1114421
70 440 4737S,4739S, 4741S, 4740S
Hex head with cap, no integral bracket
3514892 (AVS)
DR1114442
70 340 4936S, 4937S
Round head, no integral bracket
3438303 (AVS)
DR1114442 or DR1114447 (Have reports of both)
70 440 4738S
71 440 4968S
Hex head with cap, no integral bracket
3438777 (Holley)
DR1114441
71 383 4667A, 4734A, 4668A, 4735A, 6191A, 6193A
Hex head with cap, no integral bracket, but includes wiring harness
2875975 (Holley, AFB)
DR1114429
70 440+6 4375A, 4734A, 4376A, 4144A
70 340+6 4791A, 4792A
70 426 4745S, 4746S
71 426 4969S, 4970S
Round head with integral bracket
3438338 (Holley)
DR1114443
71 440+6 4669A, 4670A
Hex head with cap
3412059 (Holley)
DR1114420
69 440+6
Hex head with cap
3438333 (Same as 2875975) (TQ)
DR1114429
71 340 4972S, 4973S
Round head with integral bracket
Bill Rolik
From an article by Frank Badelson:
69-1/2 440-6: DR1114420 (hex head)
70 340 4 bbl: DR1114442 (round head)
70 340-6 and 440-6 and hemi: DR1114429 (round head)
70 440 4 bbl: DR1114421 (hex head)
71 440 4 bbl: DR1114447 (hex head)
71 440-6: DR1114443 (hex head)
Posted By: cudaized
Re: Idle Stop Solenoids - 06/02/11 03:33 AM
and the "finished" product.....
Posted By: cudaized
Re: Idle Stop Solenoids - 06/02/11 03:48 AM
re: 1970 340
What determined if the car (carb) received the idle solenoid?
One of my 4933 has it, including that interesting extra power feed from the alternator. Another 4933 does not have it nor the power wire.
I have 6 or 7 other 1970 340 carbs. Some have it some don't?
What determined if the car (carb) received the idle solenoid?
One of my 4933 has it, including that interesting extra power feed from the alternator. Another 4933 does not have it nor the power wire.
I have 6 or 7 other 1970 340 carbs. Some have it some don't?
Posted By: Moparlar
Re: Idle Stop Solenoids - 06/02/11 02:25 PM
Quote:
There is no (reliable) list that I've seen publicized but a few of us here on Moparts posted one a while back, I'll see if I can dig it up. In general, most cans with no stamped number and a small brass hex head are generic replacements.
I also have 1 with Stenciled #1114423 and a round head. I will assume this also a replacement.
At least I have a DR1114429 for my Superbird.
Still have to find the correct one for my 72 6 pack car.
Larry
Posted By: ademon
Re: Idle Stop Solenoids - 07/15/11 06:55 AM
Mine tested out fine, i took it apart to clean, soaked the housing in evaporust but the housing does have some pitting... any ideas on minimizing the pitting????? not sure if its worth plating with the pits? 
Posted By: 62maxwgn
Re: Idle Stop Solenoids - 07/15/11 01:16 PM
Quote:Quote:
There is no (reliable) list that I've seen publicized but a few of us here on Moparts posted one a while back, I'll see if I can dig it up. In general, most cans with no stamped number and a small brass hex head are generic replacements.
I also have 1 with Stenciled #1114423 and a round head. I will assume this also a replacement.
At least I have a DR1114429 for my Superbird.
Still have to find the correct one for my 72 6 pack car.
Larry
The 1114423 is not a generic replacement,it is O.E.M. Pontiac Ram Air 1V.
Posted By: Steve340
Re: Idle Stop Solenoids - 07/16/11 07:45 PM
Quote:
re: 1970 340
What determined if the car (carb) received the idle solenoid?
One of my 4933 has it, including that interesting extra power feed from the alternator. Another 4933 does not have it nor the power wire.
I have 6 or 7 other 1970 340 carbs. Some have it some don't?
If it had California emissions in 1970 it got the solenoid.
Posted By: Moparlar
Re: Idle Stop Solenoids - 07/17/11 03:32 AM
Quote:Quote:Quote:
There is no (reliable) list that I've seen publicized but a few of us here on Moparts posted one a while back, I'll see if I can dig it up. In general, most cans with no stamped number and a small brass hex head are generic replacements.
I also have 1 with Stenciled #1114423 and a round head. I will assume this also a replacement.
At least I have a DR1114429 for my Superbird.
Still have to find the correct one for my 72 6 pack car.
Larry
The 1114423 is not a generic replacement,it is O.E.M. Pontiac Ram Air 1V.
Guess I should look for a pontiac guy to sell it to
Posted By: cudaized
Re: Idle Stop Solenoids - 07/17/11 05:12 AM
Quote:Quote:
re: 1970 340
What determined if the car (carb) received the idle solenoid?
One of my 4933 has it, including that interesting extra power feed from the alternator. Another 4933 does not have it nor the power wire.
I have 6 or 7 other 1970 340 carbs. Some have it some don't?
If it had California emissions in 1970 it got the solenoid.
That's what I have been thinking, BUT, my original 1970 `cuda340 sold new in TN has it? (Hamtramck built) Just curious if there were other possible parameters that this solenoid would have been installed from the factory. [or even dealer installed]
Ola
Posted By: intragration
Re: Idle Stop Solenoids - 07/17/11 12:21 PM
Quote:
There is a base idle (solenoid not energized) so the car will shut off without dieseling. This is usually around 500-700 RPM
With the solenoid energized, it pushes the plunger out, raising the idle so it idles smooth.
This is usually around 1000-1100 RPM.
What controls when the solenoid is energized? I haven't had any problems with dieseling, but I have noticed that coming to an abrupt stop, the car briefly wants to stall before regaining it's composure. If this allowed idle to be higher at some times, but lower at others, this might be beneficial, but again, I don't understand what controls it's operation.
Don't feel too bad, lowly '70-'71 340 guys, there's always us '72-'74 guys out there.
Posted By: cudaized
Re: Idle Stop Solenoids - 07/17/11 02:43 PM
Quote:
What controls when the solenoid is energized?
The key in the "ON" position. It gets 12 volts from the alternator Field terminal.
The plunger is directed to extend any time the electricity is present. When the key is first engaged, the plunger may not extend fully until the carb is opened a little (like to engage the choke on a cold start). Once the carb is opened a little, the plunger stays extended until the electricity is removed (ie. Turn the key to OFF).
Posted By: ademon
Re: Idle Stop Solenoids - 07/17/11 06:23 PM
Quote:Right, i noticed testing mine that if i hold the plunger then apply 12v it will not extend but if i release pressure it will pop out and i cant push it back in once out. I guess it depends on how tight your linkage/return spring may be.Quote:
What controls when the solenoid is energized?
The key in the "ON" position. It gets 12 volts from the alternator Field terminal.
The plunger is directed to extend any time the electricity is present. When the key is first engaged, the plunger may not extend fully until the carb is opened a little (like to engage the choke on a cold start). Once the carb is opened a little, the plunger stays extended until the electricity is removed (ie. Turn the key to OFF).