Moparts
AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs
Posted By: cataclysm80
AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 02/18/08 12:20 AM
I understand the T/A hood is heavier.
There's a small diameter spring with more coils, and a larger diameter spring with less coils.
Which ones go on which car?? Originals only please, as I've heard the reproductions are mixed up.
How many coils does each spring have?
Tav
Posted By: mccannix
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 02/18/08 01:22 AM
Must be a difference as each has a different part number.....AAR is 3586215, TA is 3586214.
I know for a fact the TA spring has 36 coils, dont have an AAR spring to compare.
Perhaps an AAR owner will chime in.
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 02/18/08 01:35 AM
You have an original T/A? Could you measure the outside diameter of the coils, just for comparison? I've got a set of lightweight springs around here somewhere, but not sure what they're off of.
Tav
Posted By: B5TA
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 02/18/08 02:32 AM
Unless you want them for "Showing" I'd leave those puppies off!! Make a prop rod or two and save your hood. IMHO
Posted By: fastmark
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 02/18/08 02:53 AM
Quote:
Unless you want them for "Showing" I'd leave those puppies off!! Make a prop rod or two and save your hood. IMHO
That's true. The factory kept replacing the hoods under warrantee because they bowed in the middle. Finally the factory came up with the fix. Take the hinges off and use a prop rod. I did that to mine and it flattened right back out to match the fenders. My hood hinges for my AAR have 33 coils.
Posted By: mccannix
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 02/18/08 03:08 AM
Looks like 1 1/4 inch outside diameter on the TA springs when measuring across center, circumference about 4.5 inches and length coil to coil not counting hook is 6.5 inches.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 02/18/08 04:51 PM
I bought some reproduction springs, got to look at my part number I got.. anyone have a pic of the underside of an original, my hood looks like it was made with fiberglass matting. not very neat in appearence. I seen some repros and they look real nice on the inderside.
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 02/18/08 11:32 PM
A few years back I ordered a set of reproduction AAR hood springs from year one. Part # A0112B
I painted them to match the car, but because of hood warpage issues, they are rarely ON the car. Mostly they just lay around here on a shelf. These reproduction AAR springs measure 36 coils long, 1 3/8 outside diameter, and 6 3/4 length not including hooks.
That's remarkably similar to original T/A hood springs.
I started to look into this once before when I first bought these springs, but I've lost my notes from back then. From what I could tell, it looked like the repro spring manufacturer had mixed up the T/A vs. the AAR and was selling them to various distributers mislabeled.
Now I'm working on a T/A, and am considering ordering a set of repro T/A springs just to see what I get.
Will someone with original AAR springs please take outside diameter and length without hooks measurements and post them here so that we can compare.
Thanks
Tav
Posted By: fastmark
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 02/19/08 02:10 AM
My originals are 1 5/16 in diameter and 5 3/8 long from coil to coil.
Posted By: moparply
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 02/19/08 03:30 AM
I have a set of original AAR hood springs. They measure 5 1/2" long, 33 coils, 1 5/16 OD, the spring thickness measured with a micrometer is .166 . I have a set of NOS TA hood springs, purchased from Chrysler in the 70's, no dealer sticker but I know who bought them. They measure 6 1/2" long, 36 coils, 1 5/16 OD, the spring thickness is .180 . The spring thickness is more on the TA springs I have, not sure if the over the counter springs were the same as the production line springs, they are gold cad plated. The hooks are also different between the two springs! These springs are unique to just the AAR and the TA.
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 02/19/08 02:44 PM
Thank you all very much for your information!!
I've checked the spring thickness of my reproduction AAR springs, and it's .19 (thats with paint). Again, it more closely resembles an original TA spring.
Anyone know who makes the reproduction springs? I had that info before, but like I said, I've lost my notes from back then.
I'm going to look into this further. I'll post updates here.
Tav
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 02/19/08 03:09 PM
70 E body hood hinges are the same regardless of whether they came on a challenger or barracuda.
What would be the result of putting the springs on the wrong car? When I ran my reproduction springs (resembling T/A springs) on my AAR, I didn't notice any adverse effects other than hood warpage. I suppose the warpage would be more severe since these springs are for a heavier hood. Would using AAR springs on a T/A hood then result in less warpage? It would still warp right?
Tav
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 02/19/08 03:23 PM
I guess while I'm on the topic of springs, I'll post the data for steel hood springs also.
barracuda: 24 coils, .215 spring thickness (with paint), 1 3/4 outside diameter, 5 1/8 long (without hooks)
challenger: 22 coils, .240 spring thickness (with paint), 1 15/16 outside diameter, 5 1/4 long (without hooks)
Tav
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 03/01/08 07:51 PM
Alright, I just received a set of "AAR" hood springs from year one. Here's a pic of them. They appear to actually be TA hood springs in every way.
I guess this problem hasn't been fixed since I discovered it in 2002!
Tav
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 03/01/08 09:01 PM
Here's the pic of AAR springs from the year one website. Is THIS what AAR springs are actually supposed to look like?
Tav
Posted By: fastmark
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 03/02/08 02:51 AM
Quote:
Here's the pic of AAR springs from the year one website. Is THIS what AAR springs are actually supposed to look like?
Tav
Those springs are not correct. The pic is just generic.
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 03/02/08 07:49 PM
OK, thanks. Would someone post a pic of a real AAR spring. I have measurements, but a pic would be nice.
Still, the spring they sent me is like a TA spring, not an AAR spring. I'm going to be calling them about this and see if I can get it all sorted out. They've been misleading their customers for at least six years with this mix up, and it needs to be fixed.
Tav
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 03/02/08 08:35 PM
here it is
both springs
Posted By: fastmark
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 03/02/08 09:19 PM
Well, after further review of the pics. mine looks just like the ones in the year one pic, not the one above. Mine are original on my car I bought in 76.
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 03/03/08 12:49 AM
Thanks for the correction fastmark, and especially for the pic of both springs together tomr!
Does anyone remember who the manufacturer of the reproduction springs is? Someone on the E body Web board told me about 6 years ago, but I'm not sure where my old notes went.
Tav
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 03/03/08 01:15 AM
i have both springs in stock
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 03/03/08 01:56 PM
I've looked around several parts distributors web sites, and all have the springs mislabeled. I'm pretty sure the manufacturer is the one labeling them wrong and passing it on to the distributors who are unaware of the difference.
Tom, if you have it, would you PM me the manufacturers contact info?
Tav
Posted By: fastmark
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 03/03/08 09:38 PM
The only diff that I can see in my originals and the ones tomr has pictured is that my original ends do not come back as close to the coil at the ones in the pics. They look like the ones in the YO pic.
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 07/29/08 02:17 PM
Some people have been asking me about this, so here's a bump to the top so it's easier to find.
I've contacted a few distributors about this issue, and spoke with a guy who claims to be the manufacturer. To my knowledge, nothing has been changed yet and they are still being sold mislabeled. I'm still working on getting this issue resolved.
Tav
Posted By: PAINT IT BLACK
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 07/29/08 08:02 PM
Does anyone have any experience with a warped hood going back to normal by removing the springs? I am about sick enough of my warpage to use a prop rod.
Posted By: sleepyhead416
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 07/29/08 08:15 PM
I bought my AAR in 71 The dealer installed hood pins in the middle (alongsides) of hood they sold 13 all had them this was not the cure. Tomsic Chrysler Plymouth was dealer. My car sat for 15years with springs on took them off hood flaten right out.
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 07/29/08 10:00 PM
Yes, My repro AAR hood had repro TA springs on it for about a year and it got pretty warped. (that's when I found out about having the wrong springs) Took em off and been using a prop rod ever since. Hood flattened out over the coarse of a month or so. Heat helps it flatten out, if your in a hurry you could park it in the sun. I've also heard of a guy putting sand bags on the hood cause the weight helps too, but it's not neccesary if your patient.
Another note: if you don't like the prop rod look you can bend a solid bar to replace the spring. Just make it so it hooks around the same spots the spring would and make it the proper length to hold the hood in the open position. Should only need it on one side. Just open the hood and install the bar, same procedure as a prop rod, but it doesn't take up as much space in the back seat. You can even paint it to match your car, and few people will ever notice the springs aren't there. It's not up in your way like a prop rod. JUST ONE REALLY IMPORTANT THING! DON'T FORGET IT'S THERE AND TRY TO CLOSE THE HOOD! (Crack!!
)
Tav
Posted By: PAINT IT BLACK
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 07/29/08 10:16 PM
Thanks!
Posted By: ebodyseast
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 07/30/08 03:32 AM
Tav, so when T/A owners order a hood spring an AAR spring is sent instead - and vise versa & in every case? If so, major screw up and all your perseverance has paid off & in a big way 'cause there's gotta be alot of owners that read this and can now have all they need - all provided here & by you & the other great members - to measure the part and visually examine its the correct piece or provide exact measurements & coil count to their supplier before its sent. Great detective work & your a great asset here & for alot of reasons.
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 07/30/08 11:43 AM
Yes, That's correct.
Thank You.
Tav
Posted By: ricomondo
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 07/31/08 03:29 AM
Hey Tav, Im surprised that repop hood warped . I thought the repops were supposed to re-enforced along the sides to prevent the warping problem. Am I correct on this? Maybe depends on who manufactured the hood?
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 07/31/08 11:52 PM
Yes, my repop AAR hood does have extra reinforcing, but I guess it just wasn't enough to hold up against the stronger TA springs. I got the hood from Year One, probably about 5 years ago now.
Hoping not to have any warpage problems with my new ASC&P TA hood!
Tav
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 08/01/08 12:11 AM
Quote:
I guess while I'm on the topic of springs, I'll post the data for steel hood springs also.
barracuda: 24 coils, .215 spring thickness (with paint), 1 3/4 outside diameter, 5 1/8 long (without hooks)
challenger: 22 coils, .240 spring thickness (with paint), 1 15/16 outside diameter, 5 1/4 long (without hooks)
Tav
Found this in another thread and thought I'd post it here also since it's relevant.
Barnabas_Kriss wrote...
Quote:
Actually for the steel hoods, there are two kinds of springs, I researched this in the 70-71 factory parts book, and confirmed it on cars I owned/parted. One is 23 coils, used on 70 cuda/barracuda only. The other one is 18 coils, (wound from a thicker wire) used on 70 challengers, and all 71-74 E-bodies. This applies to all steel hoods (flat/rally/shaker).
Perhaps we've counted our coils differently, It can be tricky deciding if you should count the first and last ones with the hooks on them. Anyway, I thought I'd let everyone know this this needs looked into just a little more, and maybe a picture posted here showing a comparison.
Tav
Posted By: Barry70GTX
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 08/01/08 12:32 AM
Quote:
Yes, my repop AAR hood does have extra reinforcing, but I guess it just wasn't enough to hold up against the stronger TA springs. I got the hood from Year One, probably about 5 years ago now.
Hoping not to have any warpage problems with my new ASC&P TA hood!
Tav
it just wasn't enough to hold up against the stronger TA springs
How can the springs warp the hood?
Posted By: Chi_Town_Runner
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 08/01/08 01:16 AM
Quote:
How can the springs warp the hood?
Remember that the springs are stretched while the hood is closed, therefore exerting pressure from the spring anchor point to where it attaches on the hood.
The spring assists in the opening of the hood as the spring compresses while the hood is open.
Make any sense?
Frank
Posted By: B5TA
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 08/01/08 02:10 AM
Ok , I'm going to say it 1 more time , just like I have said it for the past 35years, LEAVE THOSE STINKING HOOD SPRINGS OFF! unless you want to ruin your hood.. What it does is exactly like the above post says, it puts stress/ pressure on the front ( leading edge ) of the hinge when it is closed. That stress then weakens the fiberglass which thus causes the WARPAGE. If you show your car then I would open the hood and then install the springs, then take them back off before closing the hood. But myself I would use 2 prop rods at the front.
Kev
Posted By: Barry70GTX
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 08/01/08 02:19 AM
Quote:
Quote:
How can the springs warp the hood?
Remember that the springs are stretched while the hood is closed, therefore exerting pressure from the spring anchor point to where it attaches on the hood.
The spring assists in the opening of the hood as the spring compresses while the hood is open.
Make any sense?
Frank
therefore exerting pressure from the spring anchor point to where it attaches on the hood.
And how much spring pressure would that be?
Posted By: Chi_Town_Runner
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 08/01/08 07:16 PM
I couldn't tell you how many lbs of pressure there would be but as an example...
next time you see a hood off a car and the springs/hinges are still mounted, try to push the hood spring down to the open position.
I say while it's on the car because I don't think you would be able to open the hood hinge in your bare hands while it was off the car.
You could also mount it in a vice.
The point being.....how much pressure?
Quite a bit.
Better yet...remove the sping from the hood hinge and try to stretch the spring.
Frank
Posted By: Barry70GTX
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 08/01/08 07:53 PM
The point being.....how much pressure?
Sure there is plenty of pressure with the hood in the up position.
How much is there in the down position?
Posted By: Chi_Town_Runner
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 08/01/08 10:34 PM
The pressure is greatest when the hood is "CLOSED"
The spring pressure is what assists in OPENING the hood. Once the hood is open there is NO PRESSURE exerted on the hood. Thats why the hoods warp, from the pressure of the spring pushing up on the hood while it's CLOSED.
Frank
Posted By: Barry70GTX
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 08/02/08 12:00 AM
The pressure is greatest when the hood is "CLOSED"
Frank, If it has all that pressure on it, why doesn't the hood pop open when you pull the pins?
It takes a couple of pounds to lift the hood off of the stops before the springs take over.
Posted By: B5TA
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 08/02/08 12:27 AM
Quote:
The pressure is greatest when the hood is "CLOSED"
Frank, If it has all that pressure on it, why doesn't the hood pop open when you pull the pins?
It takes a couple of pounds to lift the hood off of the stops before the springs take over.
You have to understand that the hood is a "certain " length. now you have to relize where the pivot point of the hinges are. So based on that distance from the hinge to the front of the hood is weight and leverage. So based apond that , length weight and distance to the hinge pivot is the reason why you DO GET THE WARPAGE ! from the force of the spring trying to raise the hood, but it can't because the hood pins are holding it down. Thats why I say leave the stupid springs off! Kev
Posted By: Barry70GTX
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 08/02/08 02:24 AM
but it can't because the hood pins are holding it down
Really!!!! You pull your hood pins and the hood flies up?
Posted By: B5TA
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 08/02/08 01:17 PM
Quote:
but it can't because the hood pins are holding it down
Really!!!! You pull your hood pins and the hood flies up?
Sorry, my bad! I quess I didn't write it like I was trying to say it, so you would understand what I meant. No the hood DOES NOT FLY OPEN ! But yes when the hood is CLOSED those springs are applying upward (constant) pressure on the hood between the hinge and where it is held down at the pins. Ok you guys do what YOU want concerning the use of those springs on your cars , but aleast you know what MY opinion is of them. The hood on my T/A was screwed up because of those springs back in 1972 and to this day is still messed up ! Good Luck To All! Kev
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 02/21/10 12:05 AM
I tracked down this old thread looking for some steel hood spring info, and thought I'd just bump it to the top in case anyone needs this info. As far as I know, I wasn't able to get the manufacturer to change the labeling, so they're still mislabeled.
Tav
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 02/25/11 02:06 PM
again. Someone in another thread could use this AAR vs. T/A spring info.
Tav
Posted By: 3406pac
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 05/24/12 06:31 PM
Anyone know if this problem has been fixed?
I just purchased a set of Year One AAR springs and after rereading this thread, I think I may just return them and make a steel bar to hold the hinge open as described.
And return the overpriced springs, as I know they were half that not long ago.
Thanks
Posted By: 3406pac
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 06/04/12 01:31 PM
ANYONE?
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 06/20/12 08:11 AM
I haven't heard anything new about them.
If you don't like the Year One price, maybe you can find a set elsewhere for less? I think these repro springs used to cost between $50 and $60. Has the price gone up?
Does Year One still have the MOPARTS15 discount going on?
Tav
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 01/10/17 10:38 AM
Time for an update.
I saw a few places outside of Moparts where people were still having trouble figuring out what hood springs to use on the Mopar Trans Am cars.
I looked at Year One again, and they STILL have their springs mislabeled. That's at least 15 years of misleading people.
Vans Auto seems to have their springs labeled correctly, which is nice. Finally a little progress.
Hopefully other places will start labeling their parts correctly in the future.
This picture should make it easier for everyone to know which spring is for which car.
Tav
Posted By: 6bblgt
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 01/10/17 11:11 AM
these came with the single 4bbl AAR hood assembly I purchased last year
un-painted from new (NOS but used) & I'll "ASSUME" the gray stripe is how they were identified on the assembly line
Posted By: Jalaska907
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 01/10/17 11:17 AM
I could be mistaken but I was under the assumption that the TA hood springs were lighter tension than the steel hoods. Glass hoods where lighter than steel i thought.
Posted By: 6bblgt
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 01/10/17 11:21 AM
yes, these springs are lighter duty - they are ~1" inside diameter, the steel hood springs are ~1.5" ID
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 02/13/17 07:38 AM
Yep, Fiberglass hood springs are a lot lighter than steel hood springs.
Additionally, AAR hood springs are lighter than T/A hood springs.
The T/A hood has a big scoop and also goes all the way to the front of the car, so the T/A hood is heavier than the AAR hood.
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 02/13/17 07:40 AM
these came with the single 4bbl AAR hood assembly I purchased last year
Thanks for the pic Dan!
A 4 barrel AAR hood assembly? Is that from one of the factory sponsored race cars?
That sounds like an interesting story.
Posted By: varunner
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 06/16/20 01:13 PM
Has anyone bought a T/A spring lately ? I bought a "T/A"spring a few years ago and now know why my hood doesn't stay all the way up. I went to Van's website, it shows one, but no description. His ebay store doesn't list one, it does list a AAR one. I messaged him, hadn't heard back yet. Also, the spring I have definitely isn't an AAR spring, not sure what I have, but for sure it is either too long or not enough tension. Not worried about hood bowing.
update: just heard from Van's, he doesn't have any T/A springs.......
Posted By: roadrunninMark
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 06/16/20 03:09 PM
disregard, wrong springs again...
Posted By: varunner
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 06/19/20 12:23 PM
Just thought I'd update this. Van's doesn't have them. Year One has had them on backorder for over a year. Hoover auto parts has them, but they have the usual mix-up between T/A and AAR. With shipping, they're approx. $150. Myself, I'm holding off on paying that.
Posted By: roadrunninMark
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 06/23/20 01:51 PM
I would think you would be able to find them at Carlisle next month.
Posted By: 1974 474 Duster
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 06/30/20 01:09 PM
People have mentioned a prop rod. No need for that ever on AAR/TA cars. Look at your hinges, they have pre-drilled holes in them. Take a round stock think 5/16" bend 2 90's in them. Put these in the holes, will have to measure to get an exact length. But it's much safer & looks better than a "broom handle."
Sorry wished I had pictures to show exactly what I mean, but our TA is gone.
But a great fix to a simple issue.
Thanks, Ken
Posted By: varunner
Re: AAR vs. T/A Hood Springs - 07/17/20 02:32 PM
In case anyone is looking for the T/A springs, I found them at Megaparts for $65. The overall lenght of the coils are 6.75". I think it was posted earlier that the oem springs were 6.50" Probably as good as it's gonna get.