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1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions.

Posted By: KillerBee

1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/21/10 04:15 PM

I'm curious about a 1970 'Cuda that was built in Los Angeles.
The car is a 340 4 speed with original color of FJ6.
I'm not real familiar with the LA built cars but I believe they did not come with the exhaust tips out the valance?
What other things are unique about the LA cars?

Thanks.
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/21/10 04:32 PM

Your fender tag would indicate that the car had N42 - chrome exhaust tips. 340 cars were not affected by CA noise compliance issues.

possible differences LA vs. Detroit:
finish - "dip" color
components such as seat belts & wheels
process - door VIN decal location
Posted By: gtx6970

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/21/10 04:41 PM

my 1970 challenger 340 LA built and sold new in San Fran had tips....... at least I had an original tip valance ( tips were gone) it was an N95 car
Posted By: Alaskan_TA

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/21/10 06:23 PM

Quote:

340 cars were not affected by CA noise compliance issues.





See N97 at this link;

http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/images/dealerships/SalesmansPocketGuides/1970/Pg%20032.jpg
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/21/10 07:12 PM

Quote:

my 1970 challenger 340 LA built and sold new in San Fran had tips....... at least I had an original tip valance ( tips were gone) it was an N95 car



Did your Challenger have complete black "primer" dip versus the grey used at the other plants.

I've been looking at Troy's 68 Dart that was built in L.A. and it is very black underneath. Non undercoating option car. And the black seems tougher than primer.

Anyone have pictures like this of a LA built E or B body?

Before glass bead blasting



After



Attached picture 5995534-Troy5_14_10DartSm07.JPG
Posted By: gtx6970

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/21/10 09:28 PM

Yes, the floorpans were black

but they were B5 blue when I sold it. I didn't feel the need to argue everytime I took it out , the floors were wrong color had I painted them black
Posted By: rayztoy

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/21/10 10:24 PM

My LA built cuda had black floor pans inside. Underneath was black with very little body color overspray. Underneath the body color was a very dark grey primer over the black dip.
Posted By: Stewpar

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/22/10 02:29 PM

My '70 Cuda has the grey primer..........
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/22/10 05:49 PM

Quote:

My '70 Cuda has the grey primer..........



Where was your 'Cuda built?

L.A. or Hamtramck?
Posted By: aar1

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/22/10 09:15 PM

Quote:

I'm not real familiar with the LA built cars but I believe they did not come with the exhaust tips out the valance?
What other things are unique about the LA cars?

Thanks.


Remember, just because it was built in L.A. doesn't mean it was to be sold in CA. If it was destined for other states, the exhaust and emissions issues didn't apply.
Posted By: 70plymA34

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/22/10 11:57 PM

so all la built cars had black primer on the bottom?? was that the norm for this plant??
Posted By: Silver70

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/23/10 12:50 AM

They la built 70 challenger rt I built has body color painted floors inside and it had the dark gray primer on the underside. Had a good bit of color on the underside also however was a factory undercoated car.
Posted By: KillerBee

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/23/10 01:45 AM

Very good information.

Were there a lot of 1970 'Cuda's built in the LA plant?
How rare would an original J6 Sassy Grass green 70 'Cuda be?
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/23/10 01:52 AM

Quote:

so all la built cars had black primer on the bottom?? was that the norm for this plant??



ALL is TOO inclusive, data from similar SPD vehicles would be beneficial.

define "black" vs. "dark gray" ??

I think you would need to get responses from similar YEAR &
EARLY (August-November) or
MID (December-March) or
LATE (April-July) production
to form a conclusion to accurately answer the question.
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/23/10 01:55 AM

Quote:

Very good information.

Were there a lot of 1970 'Cuda's built in the LA plant?
How rare would an original J6 Sassy Grass green 70 'Cuda be?



The didn't built as many cars at that plant.

The plant at which a car was built has never been a factor on "rarity".

I believe there is a list that covers the percentages of 'Cuda Hardtops and Conv's per given color.
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/23/10 01:56 AM

Quote:

Very good information.

Were there a lot of 1970 'Cuda's built in the LA plant?
How rare would an original J6 Sassy Grass green 70 'Cuda be?



Does it have V4J stripes??

FJ6 - 'Cudas built for USA (Hamtramck & Los Angeles) ~ 184
Posted By: Alaskan_TA

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/23/10 02:24 AM

If anyone is not familiar with the multi-step dip process view the page at this link ;

http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/imag...neering0010.jpg
Posted By: Alaskan_TA

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/23/10 02:34 AM

There are an endless amount of variables that could affect the dip color.

How new was the product?

How many cars had been through it before yours?

What were the humidity & temperature that day?

How low did the tank get before more fluid was added?

How often was the tank cleaned?

Different suppliers?

Etc., etc.......

The only thing I have noticed from checking the back sides of fender tags I have here is that LA tags have very little if any dip on them, most show no sign of it.

Hamtramck cars have the whole tag covered in most cases.

This tells me that for whatever reason, the Hamtramck tank may have been a little deeper.

So, if you are restoring your car, use it as a reference & put it back as close as you can.
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/23/10 03:04 AM

Quote:

There are an endless amount of variables that could affect the dip color.

How new was the product?

How many cars had been through it before yours?

What were the humidity & temperature that day?

How low did the tank get before more fluid was added?

How often was the tank cleaned?

Different suppliers?

Etc., etc.......



In this picture of a LA built 68 Dart you can see the black dip line







Attached picture 5997867-Troy5_14_10DartSm17.JPG
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/23/10 03:19 AM

Here's the remains of black paint/dip that is protected well under the gas tank after sanding and scraping. Troy said that stuff is certainly tougher than the grey primer that was under his 30K mile So Cal Challenger T/A.

Attached picture 5997906-Troy3_19_10DartSm4.JPG
Posted By: demon

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/23/10 03:50 AM

I have an LA built 70 Cuda 383 3 speed. It too has the black dip not grey like my other cars. It also has no undercoating in the wheel wells at all. Just blackout over the medium green metallic.
Posted By: Stewpar

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/23/10 03:04 PM

Quote:

Quote:

My '70 Cuda has the grey primer..........



Where was your 'Cuda built?

L.A. or Hamtramck?



LA plant/April Build..............
Posted By: 70plymA34

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/23/10 03:40 PM

Quote:

Quote:

so all la built cars had black primer on the bottom?? was that the norm for this plant??



ALL is TOO inclusive, data from similar SPD vehicles would be beneficial.

define "black" vs. "dark gray" ??

I think you would need to get responses from similar YEAR &
EARLY (August-November) or
MID (December-March) or
LATE (April-July) production

ahhh, very interesting info. my cuda was an earlier production model (10/69). it seemed to have a dark gray primer not black. however it probably has aged over time. Barry brings up some excellent variables with this process. mine was dealer undercoated.
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/23/10 03:52 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

My '70 Cuda has the grey primer..........



Where was your 'Cuda built?

L.A. or Hamtramck?



LA plant/April Build..............



Was it a non undercoating car or an optional undercoating car?

Do you have some pictures of the underside you could share?
Posted By: rayztoy

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/23/10 03:56 PM

My Car:
LA plant, 70 Cuda
SPD March 70
Dip- Black, on floorpans only, not on upper part of framerails
Primer- very dark grey under body color, on upper part of framerails

I guess my car wasn't dipped very deep in the dipping tub.
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/23/10 04:10 PM

Quote:

My Car:
LA plant, 70 Cuda
SPD March 70
Dip- Black, on floorpans only, not on upper part of framerails
Primer- very dark grey under body color, on upper part of framerails

I guess my car wasn't dipped very deep in the dipping tub.



Undercoating car or non-undercoating ??
Posted By: rayztoy

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/23/10 04:52 PM

Undercoated.
Posted By: JRepucci

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/23/10 05:31 PM

BS23H0E, SPD 226 Black dip primer, only under coating is in the rear wheel wells and the driver wheel well around the emergency brake cable and pedal mounting bolts.



Attached picture 5998613-FM3cuda1.JPG
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/23/10 05:43 PM

Quote:

BS23H0E, SPD 226 Black dip primer, only under coating is in the rear wheel wells and the driver wheel well around the emergency brake cable and pedal mounting bolts.



IIRC, you car is a pretty rust free 100% california car with mint body. Never been restored.

How high does the black dip go on in the rear and front wheel wells?

So that is a non optional undercoating car I assume?

Seems like Hamtramck non undercoating cars got a fan of underoating behind the front wheels to to black out behind the tires. I wonder if the LA cars didn't get the behind the front tire undercoating because it was allready black.

That LA 68 Dart I pictured had no undercoat on the front innder panal area either. Don't know about the pedal bolts or E-brake cable hole.
Posted By: JRepucci

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/23/10 05:48 PM

Floor

Attached picture 5998641-fm3cuda3.JPG
Posted By: JRepucci

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/23/10 05:56 PM

Yes, Its an unrestored car. 88k miles. The black out in the front wheel wells is just the black dip. This car would be an excellent example of a LA car to OE restore.

Attached picture 5998656-DSC01104.JPG
Posted By: JRepucci

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/23/10 05:59 PM

Cowl paint

Attached picture 5998663-fm3cuda4.JPG
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/23/10 06:00 PM

Quote:

Floor



That's clean

So thats the dark black dip showing through the flaked of pink. Does it seem pretty heavy and tough? More than the grey primer at Hamtramack? Like it's not just primer?

Surprized to see the shifter mechanism and shift linkage boot painted over. Was that factory?
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/23/10 06:02 PM

Quote:

Yes, Its an unrestored car. 88k miles. The black out in the front wheel wells is just the black dip. This car would be an excellent example of a LA car to OE restore.





Very true. Perfect car to try to OE Gold with.

Are the underside inspection marks real prevelant and mostly still there?
Posted By: JRepucci

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/23/10 06:06 PM

Dash and grey? under dash

Attached picture 5998670-fm3cuda6.JPG
Posted By: JRepucci

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/23/10 06:09 PM

Yes, there are lots of markings under the car. Under the hood very few things have ever been changed.... master cylinder, pcv, heater hoses. It still has the original power steering belt, alternator and 2806070 fan clutch.
Posted By: Alaskan_TA

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/23/10 06:13 PM

Paint over the floor plugs & shifter boot indicate that the floor on that side was repainted at some point. Any signs of collision damage / past repairs?
Posted By: JRepucci

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/23/10 06:16 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Floor



That's clean

So thats the dark black dip showing through the flaked of pink. Does it seem pretty heavy and tough? More than the grey primer at Hamtramack? Like it's not just primer?


Surprized to see the shifter mechanism and shift linkage boot painted over. Was that factory?



Thats black body seam sealer!

As for the over spray... I cannot figure it out. It looks as though part of the car was repainted after it had partially assembeled. Some of the body plugs are painted... not over spray but painted pink. The car had peices of its original carpet in it when I got it.
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/23/10 06:17 PM

Quote:

Dash and grey? under dash



On the Hamtramck cars I've seen the auto shifter boot/cover and shift mechansism natural color. And those Hamtramck car have spray black out around the corners of the carpet and console opening so as not to show body color thru the carpet edges.

Did the LA cars paint over all that stuff?
Posted By: JRepucci

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/23/10 06:19 PM

Quote:

Paint over the floor plugs & shifter boot indicate that the floor on that side was repainted at some point. Any signs of collision damage / past repairs?



Barry, No body damage.... there is paint on the body plugs on both sides...but not on all of them? The paint in the door jambs has small chips that go down to the metal and there is no sign of a repaint in the jambs.

Attached picture 5998688-fm3cuda7.JPG
Posted By: Alaskan_TA

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/23/10 06:25 PM

Someone must have had it apart for some reason after it was built.

Is that duct tape on the console light wire? For the cars I have had apart (so far) that had it the tape was black.
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/23/10 06:26 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Floor



That's clean

So thats the dark black dip showing through the flaked of pink. Does it seem pretty heavy and tough? More than the grey primer at Hamtramack? Like it's not just primer?


Surprized to see the shifter mechanism and shift linkage boot painted over. Was that factory?



Thats black body seam sealer!



I was looking at the black area on the passenger tunnel. But they would have put seam sealer around the seat belt hole. It's just slopped over a large area around the hole.
Posted By: JRepucci

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/23/10 06:28 PM

Exterior, the paint had worn through on the hood and so they sprayed gray primer on it to make it worse.

Attached picture 5998701-FM3cuda2.jpg
Posted By: JRepucci

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/23/10 06:33 PM

Quote:

Someone must have had it apart for some reason after it was built.

Is that duct tape on the console light wire? For the cars I have had apart (so far) that had it the tape was black.



Yes thats duct tape... I didn't do it!
Posted By: Alaskan_TA

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/23/10 06:36 PM

I wonder if the car got wet or something in the past, windows left down in the rain or something. In a situation like that the carpet could have been removed to dry it out & the paint could have been touched up at that time.

Are the side moldings original?
Posted By: JRepucci

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/23/10 06:45 PM

Barry, its a V6X car that some time in its life they put the moulding on.... its the rivet on type.... there are about 20 1/8 inch holes down each side of the car. The exterior of the car has been repainted once from what I car tell but the tail panel, door jambs and engine compartment have not. Another interesting quirk is that the hood pin brackets are black(old thin paint) not body color and are held down with pink bolts....it almost looks as though they were not on the car when it was painted originally.

The car had been sitting since around 1988 and was in the hands of the original owner until about three years ago. Another collector bought the car and planned on restoring it but decided to let it go.... I'm not a big fan of FM3 but bought it because of its condition and I could always change the color!. There is an oil change sticker in the drivers door jamb from 1988 and the car had 88,2XX miles on it then and has 88,674 on it now.
Posted By: Alaskan_TA

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/23/10 06:51 PM

It would be a very cool car to check out in person.
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/23/10 07:02 PM

Quote:

As for the over spray... I cannot figure it out. It looks as though part of the car was repainted after it had partially assembeled. Some of the body plugs are painted... not over spray but painted pink. The car had peices of its original carpet in it when I got it.



Quote:

Barry, No body damage.... there is paint on the body plugs on both sides...but not on all of them? The paint in the door jambs has small chips that go down to the metal and there is no sign of a repaint in the jambs.




Was most of the original carpet gone/worn thru and just side pieces left showing the exposed pink floor boards?

If the body plugs were painted on both sides was the pink paint under the floor boards around the those particular drain holes.

Nonetheless, it's a great original car. A great reference for other LA built cars. But I would not use the interior floorboard themselves as a reference for another car at this point in time until a lot more investigation. It's just the floorboards anyway, not a super critical area.
Posted By: JRepucci

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/23/10 07:05 PM

Quote:

It would be a very cool car to check out in person.



Its a really cool car and by no means do I consider it a survivor. When I first saw it it reminded me of the kind of car that we bought back in the 80's... really not messed with other than maintenance and a AM/FM radio and 6x9 speakers. I'd like to repaint the hood but have been toying with the idea of adding a shaker hood since I have all the parts.
Posted By: JRepucci

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/23/10 07:16 PM

Quote:

Quote:

As for the over spray... I cannot figure it out. It looks as though part of the car was repainted after it had partially assembeled. Some of the body plugs are painted... not over spray but painted pink. The car had peices of its original carpet in it when I got it.



Quote:

Barry, No body damage.... there is paint on the body plugs on both sides...but not on all of them? The paint in the door jambs has small chips that go down to the metal and there is no sign of a repaint in the jambs.




Was most of the original carpet gone/worn thru and just side pieces left showing the exposed pink floor boards?

If the body plugs were painted on both sides was the pink paint under the floor boards around the those particular drain holes.

Nonetheless, it's a great original car. A great reference for other LA built cars. But I would not use the interior floorboard themselves as a reference for another car at this point in time until a lot more investigation. It's just the floorboards anyway, not a super critical area.



There is paint under the body plugs(you can see there is one removed) There is no signs of dirt in the paint on the top coat of paint that is on the plugs and shifter mech. I have been looking closely at this thinking maybe the car was painted and then the assembly line didn't like the paint hue? The car has a SPD of 226, this is the earliest LA cuda' that the Pink car registry has in its database... he has a RM23N with the same SPD... maybe they were trying to get the color right?
Posted By: Alaskan_TA

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/23/10 09:03 PM

I have heard of one with a 214 SPD, but of course that does not mean much about when it was actually built.
Posted By: JRepucci

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/23/10 10:19 PM

Quote:

I have heard of one with a 214 SPD, but of course that does not mean much about when it was actually built.



Barry, That was out of the LA plant?
Posted By: Alaskan_TA

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/23/10 11:31 PM

Yes.
Posted By: AZ-Nick

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/23/10 11:43 PM

Were the 70 Chall done the same way? I ask because my 70 LA built has been basically sitting for many years (around early 70's) and the od shows less than 16k miles which I believe to be accurate. Yes there has been many changes done to this car but most of them were cosmetic and engine - Long Story and for another thread!
Posted By: Stewpar

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/25/10 02:50 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

My '70 Cuda has the grey primer..........



Where was your 'Cuda built?

L.A. or Hamtramck?



LA plant/April Build..............



Was it a non undercoating car or an optional undercoating car?

Do you have some pictures of the underside you could share?



NO J55
I will crop some down and post............
Posted By: Stewpar

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/25/10 08:32 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

My '70 Cuda has the grey primer..........



Where was your 'Cuda built?

L.A. or Hamtramck?



LA plant/April Build..............



Was it a non undercoating car or an optional undercoating car?

Do you have some pictures of the underside you could share?



NO J55
I will crop some down and post............



Now that I look at the pictures, you can see some black under that paint. More so in the rear of the car than the front. There wasn't any really on the front end of the car that I can remember. Then again, I can't remember what I had for lunch yesterday..............

Attached picture 6002524-under.JPG
Posted By: Stewpar

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/25/10 08:33 PM

More......

Attached picture 6002527-trunkunderoverspray.JPG
Posted By: Stewpar

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/25/10 08:34 PM

More.....

Attached picture 6002532-Oversprayunder.JPG
Posted By: FJ6AAR

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/26/10 12:14 AM

Here is my 2/12/70 LA built 6 bb 'Cuda. You can clearly see the black/dark gray finish on the bottom. It also had no tips in the rear, they are turn down (it was also sold in California). The bottom part was power washed and the top part is untouched and awaiting its turn. Rob

Attached picture 6002855-e285.jpg
Posted By: Silver70

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/26/10 04:45 AM

I'll have to check whats left of the trunk floor and extensions I have sitting here... I really don't remember any hard black coating.
Posted By: 70plymA34

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/26/10 09:27 PM

my LA built 70 cuda was an earlier model (10/69). i was able to locate a photo of the gas tank area. it clearly shows a blackish type primer. also it was heavily undercoated at the dealership when new because the orig. owners dad worked there. This was the only area it clearly shows the darker primer that everyone is on a tear about. I hope this helps. If mine had the original paint on it I would not have restored it.

Attached picture 6004534-cudaunderside.jpg
Posted By: 70plymA34

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/26/10 09:49 PM

now, here is the odd part. i am not sure how the factory dipped the car or how deep it was immersed in the primer, but my door panels have more of a lighter gray primer on them as well as the floor pans. the exterior of the car was repainted once. the engine comp, interior, trunk and door jambs were spared and retained the original B7 color.
Guys, another important detail is that factory still was using that yellowish adhesive in late 69 to adhere the moisture barrier to the door before they went to the whitish strips. Or, was the white caulk before the yellowish adhesive?

Attached picture 6004581-cudapassdoor.jpg
Posted By: 70plymA34

Re: 1970 'Cuda Los Angeles built questions. - 05/26/10 10:01 PM

This is for member Alaskan T/A. Is this the tape you were referring to near the foot dimmer?

Attached picture 6004595-cudafootdimmer.jpg
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