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71 R/T challenger fender emblem

Posted By: kevinRT

71 R/T challenger fender emblem - 02/12/10 01:31 AM

Does anyone know if the 71 R/T challenger came with fender emblems? I have seen cars with and without the challenger emblems,my car came with R/T emblems on the fenders but I think the second owner put them there. The car has the R/T stripe if that makes a difference. Any help would be appreciated, thanks
Posted By: HPMike

Re: 71 R/T challenger fender emblem - 02/12/10 01:38 AM

R/T stripe, then no emblems. Stripe delete- then the emblems were placed on the fenders.

I used to have an engineering drawing from Chrysler saved that showed the options and the layout. I believe Barry Washington has it on his site. Maybe someone can post it.

Attached picture 5798339-dogdish71003(Medium).jpg
Posted By: cataclysm80

Re: 71 R/T challenger fender emblem - 02/12/10 01:52 AM

I've seen lots of debate on this subject. I'd agree that the RT stripe cars have no emblem. Some claim that the stripe delete cars also had no emblem, while some say they did. (I'd think they did, but that's just my opinion.) Of the people that say the stripe delete cars had emblems, some claim that a few early built cars came with the emblem in the 1970 location, instead of the 71 location pictured above.

Tav
Posted By: HPMike

Re: 71 R/T challenger fender emblem - 02/12/10 02:00 AM

Quote:

I've seen lots of debate on this subject. I'd agree that the RT stripe cars have no emblem. Some claim that the stripe delete cars also had no emblem, while some say they did. (I'd think they did, but that's just my opinion.) Of the people that say the stripe delete cars had emblems, some claim that a few early built cars came with the emblem in the 1970 location, instead of the 71 location pictured above.

Tav



I have heard that same debate, but then why would there by an engineering edict stating the way I described? I do have a very early, poor quality photo of my car from 72 showing the emblems in the proper location. I don't own a scanner, but I suppose I could photograph it and post it.

I guess it kinda boils down to this. If they didn't put the R/T emblems on the stripe delete cars, then they really wouldn't have any "R/T" identification, no? Just cannot see that happening. Can you recall ANY R/T model that didn't have an R/T logo somewhere?

There is another original hemi R/T stripe delete car that is yellow with same setup as mine.

MB
Posted By: sixpakchallenger

Re: 71 R/T challenger fender emblem - 02/12/10 02:09 AM

I have a 71 R/T with stripes and emblems. You can see the outlines of the Challenger and R/T scripts. They could have been added from the dealership???

Posted By: HPMike

Re: 71 R/T challenger fender emblem - 02/12/10 02:12 AM

Here is a stripe delete hemi car still in the hands of the orig owner. Stripe delete with fender emblems.

Attached picture 5798411-hernandez.jpg
Posted By: Stewpar

Re: 71 R/T challenger fender emblem - 02/12/10 02:19 AM

Quote:

Here is a stripe delete hemi car still in the hands of the orig owner. Stripe delete with fender emblems.



Did the owner add the stripe?
Posted By: HPMike

Re: 71 R/T challenger fender emblem - 02/12/10 02:22 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Here is a stripe delete hemi car still in the hands of the orig owner. Stripe delete with fender emblems.



Did the owner add the stripe?



I must be confusing that car up with another one. For some reason I thought it was stripe delete. I would assume that pic is the "as delivered" state.

MB
Posted By: jeff968

Re: 71 R/T challenger fender emblem - 02/12/10 03:14 AM

We've debated this many times before. I say no R/T emblems on 71 R/Ts, just decals and the quarter scoop. If it was a stripe delete, it had no R/T on it at all. That's what I had and owned back in 1980. IMHO.
Posted By: cataclysm80

Re: 71 R/T challenger fender emblem - 02/12/10 02:15 PM

Quote:


There is another original hemi R/T stripe delete car that is yellow with same setup as mine.




Is this the car?
This was posted in a previous thread on the same subject.

Tav

Attached picture 5799021-71RTstripedelete.jpg
Posted By: cataclysm80

Re: 71 R/T challenger fender emblem - 02/12/10 02:17 PM

Here's another pic from that same thread.

Tav

Attached picture 5799025-71RT.jpg
Posted By: cataclysm80

Re: 71 R/T challenger fender emblem - 02/12/10 02:20 PM

Quote:


I used to have an engineering drawing from Chrysler saved that showed the options and the layout. I believe Barry Washington has it on his site. Maybe someone can post it.



As far as I know, Barry was asked by Chrysler to take the engineering diagrams down off his web site. I'd imagine he still has a copy of them, just not up on the website. Faxon auto literature has been coming out with books of engineering diagrams for sale, but I'm not sure if they've gotten to E bodies yet.

It sure would be nice to see that diagram though!

Tav
Posted By: HPMike

Re: 71 R/T challenger fender emblem - 02/12/10 02:47 PM

Quote:

Quote:


I used to have an engineering drawing from Chrysler saved that showed the options and the layout. I believe Barry Washington has it on his site. Maybe someone can post it.



As far as I know, Barry was asked by Chrysler to take the engineering diagrams down off his web site. I'd imagine he still has a copy of them, just not up on the website. Faxon auto literature has been coming out with books of engineering diagrams for sale, but I'm not sure if they've gotten to E bodies yet.

It sure would be nice to see that diagram though!

Tav



Yep,

That was the car in question....

As for the emblem placement drawing, I thought I lost it, but here it is Click on the attachment for a clearer view.

Note the drawing specifically states "G series" which we all know is 1971. Despite this proof and pics of known originals some will still not be convinced. Oh well.

Attached picture 5799074-emblemplacement.jpg
Posted By: Morty426

Re: 71 R/T challenger fender emblem - 02/12/10 04:39 PM

Mike,

Thanks for posting the pic.

Stripe Delete = R/T emblem
Posted By: 318 Stroker

Re: 71 R/T challenger fender emblem - 02/12/10 05:20 PM

Quote:

Mike,

Thanks for posting the pic.

Stripe Delete = R/T emblem



I cant' speak for all 71 stripe-delete R/T's, but a friend of mine has an original paint (what's left of it... ) white R/T, stripe delete, and it has the R/T fender emblems. It also has the factory vinyl body-side moldings...
Posted By: floyd

Re: 71 R/T challenger fender emblem - 02/12/10 08:36 PM

This car appeared to be mostly original paint.

Attached picture 5799767-b5340survivor.jpg
Posted By: floyd

Re: 71 R/T challenger fender emblem - 02/12/10 08:38 PM

another angle

Attached picture 5799773-b5340survivor4.jpg
Posted By: jeff968

Re: 71 R/T challenger fender emblem - 02/12/10 10:35 PM

I see the above document but my 1970-71 Chrysler parts book doesn't list anything for an R/T emblem on a 71 R/T but it does have an air cleaner for a 71 T/A 340 4 barrel so we know these things aren't always correct. I owned three 71 R/Ts back in the late seventies/early eighties and none of them had R/T emblems. The photo link below is one page of a period road test of a stripe delete 71 R/T 340. You'll notice, no emblems. Finally, did you ever notice that R/T emblem location on 71s that do have them varies wildly (the yellow car above has the emblem under the Challenger script and forward where the blue car has it more directly under the Challenger). Makes me think they were added. IMHO.

Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: 71 R/T challenger fender emblem - 02/12/10 11:09 PM

Quote:

I see the above document but my 1970-71 Chrysler parts book doesn't list anything for an R/T emblem on a 71 R/T but it does have an air cleaner for a 71 T/A 340 4 barrel so we know these things aren't always correct. I owned three 71 R/Ts back in the late seventies/early eighties and none of them had R/T emblems. The photo link below is one page of a period road test of a stripe delete 71 R/T 340. You'll notice, no emblems.





T/A 4 bbl and 2-4bbl base plates were avaliable and made to outfit Challengers with optionaly ordered N94 fiberglass "T/A" hoods, of which a handful of documented R/T equipped cars do exsist currently,....as far as magazine "test cars", most were early rushed pilot/promo/production models often ill fitted/trimed with incorrect options, or lack of, inorder to get early press release,...so while some roadtest photos are sometimes valuable "tools" to aid in research, they aren't the "holy grail" so to speak


The factory released for production prints clearly show the intended F and G series designations as to intented assyline fitement of the emblems,....and like everything in life, not everything is etched in stone, so I'm sure variations exsist, as do deletions

Attached picture 5800037-rtchal.JPG
Posted By: HPMike

Re: 71 R/T challenger fender emblem - 02/12/10 11:20 PM

Parts books make poor reference guides for any restoration. Even to this very day, parts books(and in todays world-computers) got revised mid year several times. There were omissions, superceded parts, part number revisions, vendor changes, and on and on. Additionally, period road tests often feature cars that are "pre-production" cars that quite frequently have incorrect parts and/or differ somewhat from what you would normally see on a run of the mill regularly ordered vehicle in the middle of the production run.

Putting the photographic evidence and authorized factory engineering drawings aside- I find it hard to imagine that every single '71 stripe delete Challenger had owners who put R/T badges on their cars. It's just doesn't seem likely. I would think it would be more likely that the ones that people remember not having them were factory mix ups that should have got them but didn't, or they were removed by thieves or simply just fell off. It was a very common practice in those days(theft of badges, logos and hood ornaments).

And for the record Jeff from CT, you are entitled to your opinion and right to believe otherwise and I respect that.

MB
Posted By: jeff968

Re: 71 R/T challenger fender emblem - 02/12/10 11:30 PM

Thank you Mike, I appreciate that.

BTW, the other car to commonly pick up R/T emblems were the A66 1970 Challengers. There is another thread on them. I had two of those. One was my first car in 1978. It was very confusing as it had all the R/T stuff, including emblems, and a standard dash???? I learned what it was a year later.
Posted By: cataclysm80

Re: 71 R/T challenger fender emblem - 02/13/10 02:51 AM

Quote:

Finally, did you ever notice that R/T emblem location on 71s that do have them varies wildly (the yellow car above has the emblem under the Challenger script and forward where the blue car has it more directly under the Challenger). Makes me think they were added.



Quote:

Of the people that say the 71 stripe delete R/T cars had R/T emblems, some claim that a few early built cars came with the emblem in the 1970 location, instead of the 71 location pictured above.




Floyd, any idea what the build date is on that blue car?

I'm also curious if that R/T emblem has posts or is adhesive. Anyone know when the switch to adhesive on the R/T emblems was? Post vs. Adhesive, emblems are the same size right?

Tav
Posted By: floyd

Re: 71 R/T challenger fender emblem - 02/13/10 04:00 AM

Tav - Sorry - No idea on the build date.
Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: 71 R/T challenger fender emblem - 02/13/10 04:13 AM



I'm also curious if that R/T emblem has posts or is adhesive. Anyone know when the switch to adhesive on the R/T emblems was? Post vs. Adhesive, emblems are the same size right?

Tav







The factory drawing is dated 4/3/70...titled adhesive emblem location A&B which is noted G series (71) location

Attached picture 5800843-rtchally71.JPG
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: 71 R/T challenger fender emblem - 02/13/10 04:54 AM

Quote:

Floyd, any idea what the build date is on that blue car?



I tried calling Dave to get more info on the blue car, but got "not in service" phone message.
-*-*- JS23H1B407xxx SPD - 527 E55 D21 GB5 GB5 V68 -*-*-

To ad more confusion the 340 was available in R/T & non-R/T in '71, missing emblems and a "bulge" hood requires a vin/fender tag check.
The road test car may be a standard Challenger with a 340?
Posted By: jeff968

Re: 71 R/T challenger fender emblem - 02/13/10 05:38 AM

Quote:

To ad The road test car may be a standard Challenger with a 340?



No sir, look closer with that magnifying glass and you can clearly see louvers on the quarters. I have the other pages for the article as well. It is an R/T. I think we would all agree, all 71 R/Ts had the quarter louvers. Regular 71 Challengers with the 340 or 383 option did not have the louvers.
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: 71 R/T challenger fender emblem - 02/13/10 05:44 AM

Quote:

Quote:

To ad The road test car may be a standard Challenger with a 340?



No sir, look closer with that magnifying glass and you can clearly see louvers on the quarters. I have the other pages for the article as well. It is an R/T. I think we would all agree, all 71 R/Ts had the quarter louvers. Regular 71 Challengers with the 340 or 383 option did not have the louvers.



Good call! They do state it's the base R/T engine on the page posted. Accurate info is tough!

Chrome dual exhaust tips are "supposed" to be R/T only although exceptions do exist.

What about the "survivor" GA4 HEMI "V5X" Challenger R/T that was at the Nat's that had no louvers (2007?)? Former/current Mopar Ponderosa car?

Attached picture 5801047-71hemichal.jpg
Posted By: HPMike

Re: 71 R/T challenger fender emblem - 02/13/10 07:18 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

To ad The road test car may be a standard Challenger with a 340?



No sir, look closer with that magnifying glass and you can clearly see louvers on the quarters. I have the other pages for the article as well. It is an R/T. I think we would all agree, all 71 R/Ts had the quarter louvers. Regular 71 Challengers with the 340 or 383 option did not have the louvers.



Good call! They do state it's the base R/T engine on the page posted. Accurate info is tough!

Chrome dual exhaust tips are "supposed" to be R/T only although exceptions do exist.

What about the "survivor" GA4 HEMI "V5X" Challenger R/T that was at the Nat's that had no louvers (2007?)? Former/current Mopar Ponderosa car?



I would think that car must have been a factory error. Or perhaps the body side mouldings had something to do with the car not getting the quarter scoops-which is a distinct possibility. It does show the R/T emblems, though.

MB
Posted By: floyd

Re: 71 R/T challenger fender emblem - 02/13/10 02:51 PM

Quote:



Chrome dual exhaust tips are "supposed" to be R/T only although exceptions do exist.





Are you sure they were exceptions? My 71 340 non-R/T is coded for exhuast tips.

And it also has quarter scoops - but I added them like an idiot in 1981, before I knew that I didn't have an R/T. There still on it it to this day. They look better than the holes will.

Attached picture 5801522-blackcarbroadcastsheet.jpg
Posted By: floyd

Re: 71 R/T challenger fender emblem - 02/13/10 03:07 PM

Oh, I also added R/T emblems to the fenders back then - which is a good illustration of Jeff's point.

That said - I still personally believe that R/T's without stripes got emblems.

Attached picture 5801565-blackcar3.jpg
Posted By: Morty426

Re: 71 R/T challenger fender emblem - 02/16/10 07:45 PM

Quote:

Quote:



Chrome dual exhaust tips are "supposed" to be R/T only although exceptions do exist.





Are you sure they were exceptions? My 71 340 non-R/T is coded for exhuast tips.





My other 71 is a 340 non R/T and it's a tip car
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: 71 R/T challenger fender emblem - 02/16/10 09:00 PM

My mistake! N42 - "chrome exhaust tips" was not an orderable "OPTION" on JH base Challengers.
They were included if the $252.50 340 engine was ordered, there was NO "package" code like '70.
So .... yes, it appears ALL non-R/T 340 1971 Challengers have chrome tips.

The A66 - "340 engine package" for 1970 was $258.90, for part of the year.

My comment should've been: A '71 JH Challenger ordered with the 383 4bbl engine should NOT have exhaust tips, but some do exist.
Posted By: TiMopar

Re: 71 R/T challenger fender emblem - 02/17/10 12:19 PM

I think that the real truth of the matter here, is that the guys assembling these things at the time didn't have much of a clue what they were doing and could care even less. If an R/T emblem wasn't within arms reach it probably didn't get one. We are not talking about bespoke quality automobiles assembled by craftsmen, but by bored blokes with one eye on the clock waiting for the end of their shift...
Posted By: cataclysm80

Re: 71 R/T challenger fender emblem - 02/18/10 04:06 AM

Quote:

I think that the real truth of the matter here, is that the guys assembling these things at the time didn't have much of a clue what they were doing and could care even less. If an R/T emblem wasn't within arms reach it probably didn't get one. We are not talking about bespoke quality automobiles assembled by craftsmen, but by bored blokes with one eye on the clock waiting for the end of their shift...



Plus the emblems didn't go on all the cars on the line, just the R/T stripe delete cars, so it's no wonder that some workers were confused and installed the emblems in the 1970 location.

I doubt this is the kind of thing quality control would have caught.

Tav
Posted By: Speeddemon

Re: 71 R/T challenger fender emblem - 02/28/10 12:57 PM

Quote:

Here is a stripe delete hemi car still in the hands of the orig owner. Stripe delete with fender emblems.



Here is the car you are talking about in the survior tent at the 2005 Nats. This gentleman is the original owner and have seen this car on a few different occasions as we live in the same town. He has both RT emblems and side stripes. The fact of the matter is with humans work on the assembly line there is to much room for error. It is what they felt like doing on that day and here is an example of it.

Posted By: mjb765

Re: 71 R/T challenger fender emblem - 06/05/10 02:18 AM

This was originally a stripe delete car that someone added the stripes. Does it also look like they forgot to put back the "Challenger" emblems on the fenders, but did put back the R/T emblesm?? Could I just add the others or does it look like the R/T is too high?

Attached picture 6021253-114150.jpg
Posted By: mccannix

Re: 71 R/T challenger fender emblem - 06/05/10 05:29 PM

That does not appear to be Challenger RT emblem, too large, more like a B-body emblem, plus in the wrong location.
Posted By: mjb765

Re: 71 R/T challenger fender emblem - 06/05/10 06:43 PM

It's probably been there 10 years or more. Should I try a heat gun to get it off?? Then maybe put on the correct emblems?
Posted By: mopar4ya

Re: 71 R/T challenger fender emblem - 06/05/10 10:21 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

To ad The road test car may be a standard Challenger with a 340?



No sir, look closer with that magnifying glass and you can clearly see louvers on the quarters. I have the other pages for the article as well. It is an R/T. I think we would all agree, all 71 R/Ts had the quarter louvers. Regular 71 Challengers with the 340 or 383 option did not have the louvers.



Good call! They do state it's the base R/T engine on the page posted. Accurate info is tough!

Chrome dual exhaust tips are "supposed" to be R/T only although exceptions do exist.

What about the "survivor" GA4 HEMI "V5X" Challenger R/T that was at the Nat's that had no louvers (2007?)? Former/current Mopar Ponderosa car?



I would think that car must have been a factory error. Or perhaps the body side mouldings had something to do with the car not getting the quarter scoops-which is a distinct possibility. It does show the R/T emblems, though.

MB



Could you get the body side moldings and the side stripe? Or did the body molding cancel the side stripe?
I have a GY3 car that had the body side moldings, but the fenders don't look to have had the R/T emblems on them. A'm I safe to assume the car had the side stripe?? and would it be coded on the fender tag?

Thanks
Dan.
Posted By: KISSAlien

Re: 71 R/T challenger fender emblem - 06/06/10 11:40 PM

Sport stripes and body side moldings were mutually exclusive.
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