Lynch Rd trunk lid Grafitti

This old friend of mine is RS23L9A........

"F70" seems obvious enough.

What does the "X" refer to?

I've seen "Red" before. I can't remember if I've ever seen anything referring to a whitewall like "W",
but I have definitely never seen "X" before (other than my own car).

I've kicked it around with a couple people, some say it means the spare tire (and hence, all of them on the vehicle) were flipped around
to blackwall.

What I have been told sounds plausible, but....no idea. Anyone?

thanks

X = black steel wheel for the spare if the car full wheel covers. With "dog dishes" the spare would have been the body color of that car. Red would mean a Redline F70 ("14 or 15") tire on whatever color spare. Not sure what spare came with a car with "road wheels/Magnum wheels"??? One '69 sales film had an A4 GTX with road wheels and what looks like a silver road wheel spare in the trunk. I know that on the Lynch Road A12 trunk writing the X = black steel wheel, only G 70 15 redlines came on the A12's, (well for the most part, have seen OE white walls rare.

That’s interesting. I never heard that before. Does that apply to 1970 Lynch Rd cars also?

Not sure? In 1969 I ordered a '69 Road Runner and when I was asked if I wanted the road wheels I said no as I was going to buy aftermarket "day-2" wheels, Didn't specify them but the sales guy spec'd full wheel covers. I remember the first time I removed the full wheel covers at the drag strip ("No full wheel covers allowed") they were cool looking black steel wheels. My friend bought a '69 RR a month or so later with hub caps (dog dishes) and his wheels were F3 green same as body color....I was way cooler with F5 and BLACK wheels Spare was also black.

There is a little bit of info out there about it, but mostly all relative to A12 stuff.

http://a12mopar.com/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1358391416;start=all

Plenty more available but I will stop there.

I'll have to go with the story the X most likely means a black steel spare wheel.

The car in that sales film is pretty special in alot of ways. The trunk lid has some weight savings done where production stuff did not...appears to be pre-production.
It also has a bright orange air grabber duct....I'm sure there is more but the film is pretty entertaining for sure.

Yeah, I wouldn't rely too heavily on that car for restoration accuracy; it had to be pre-production, and I think it's the same GTX in the brochure.
Always thought the red AG unit was interesting, but I've only seen it on Dodges; never on an original Plymouth.
Looks like an early-'68 trunk lid inner panel, too.
I've had a few '69 RRs with factory Magnums; the one that had its original spare used a black steel wheel.
The other did as well, but I couldn't swear to their born-with originality, as they had non-OEM tires on them.
My '68 factory-Magnum RR also had a black spare wheel.
I'm sure Chrysler did whatever was cheapest for that.

Yes for sure a lot of strange things in the 1969 Plymouth B-bodies including the Road Runner, Road Runner convertible and GTX new model year features.

Didn't we just put a man on the moon about the same time they probably made this.........can we call it a "Power Point"

If you have the build sheet it will tell you everything the car had when it left the factory.

Mine is a Lynch Rd hemi car with a 70X on the trunk lid. The broadcast sheet shows a body colored spare as well as wheels and dog dish caps and F70 red line tires. Now for another thought. Back in the day the owners manual shows how to rotate the tires which included the spare so if you had poverty caps they didn't want a black wheel in the rotation it would be body color excluding black cars . The full wheel cover cars got the black spare along with A12 of coarse.

My WM23N0A has F70 W written on the lid.

My 66 Belvedere

That silver GTX in the slide show is pretty awesome. 440 with track pack, air grabber, four speed, power windows and a really cool color combination.

Nope, don't have it, just partially failing to figure out everything else I possibly can otherwise (which really ain't much), but being that
I owned it for a few decades I do care so I'll research as much as possible.

So yours seems to lead us to believe X is not necessarily a black spare wheel, and it is not blackwall tires either.

And yet we have other examples of "Red" and (now, above) we have a "W".

I guess I'm back to square one: No idea

No worries, Zippy - that X could have been in error.
I've seen R & RED & W & X over the years, but whether that communication was "bulletproof", who knows ?
I recall seeing film of mounted tires coming down a chute to feed a car, but don't recall the specifics.
I think everyone's heard about the spares literally being pitched into the trunks, so I'd suspect an error there could be possible.

They are human who knows

My Lynch Rd 70 Super Bee has F 70 B on the trunk lid, which I think means F70-14 black wall (raised white letter) tires. No X, but I don’t have the broadcast sheet. No evidence of red paint on the drums, so I think it came with regular 14x6 steel wheels. My brother remembers his 71 318 Charger had an X on the trunk lid, and it had 14” black wheels with full wheel covers. I don’t know what plant that car came from.

What I don't get - how did they know if the steel wheel has to be black or body color if the written down R, X or W refers to the tire? If the letter refers to the wheel, like X for black steel wheel - how did they know which tire to use?

Yep

Did you have the interior out of the car? Behind the rear seat is the most obvious place to look but it can be found behind the glove box, under the carpet or in the front seats.

Purchased as a bondoed up partially gutted shell circa 1990.
There was not much of an interior to speak of, or carpet, or glovebox cardboard.

It did have the black dash+pads still mostly intact, and did have the silver windlace and black headliner,
But that was about it.

I’ve had almost every piece of metal off the car, please believe me when I say there’s no build sheet.

I’m not freaked out about that, it’s somewhat rare but nothing people go crazy for, one of
4000-something 440 4 speeds and had few options otherwise.
Power steering,
AM radio and hood stripes was about it. No air grabber, no console, no ac,
Manual 11” drum brakes. Very basic kind of a car.

I think that would be 4002 ?

I have and old friend that mounted tires and wheels on the line ,it was his first job. He said the tires were mounted upstaires using a broadcast sheet for color size and type and dropped down to his location to put on the car. He also said if they lost count or what ever after a good lunch in the parking lot you mounted what ever came down there was no stopping the line for mistakes, it happened all the time. The quality people at the end of the line would correct mistakes which would account fot date codes not matching perfectly. I know that doesn't explain the trunk lid markings or when the spare went in but I'm about due to call him and see if he's still kickin maybe I can get an answer.

I am confident the letters in discussion are sidewall colors. There are 3 designations that show up across the 1969 LR production:

X = Continue reading the thread, multiple epiphanies have occurred as this thread evolved - Edit 1/25/22
W = White Wall
R or RED = Red Wall

And the attached one oddity which is F70 B. Further discussion and discovery is below, please read on.

D

1969 Lynch Rd. is all B-body (non-Charger)
so, the available "performance" tires were:

F70-14 red (Goodyear SPEEDWAY or Firestone WIDE OVAL) - "F70 R" makes sense
F70-14 white (Goodyear SPEEDWAY or Firestone WIDE OVAL) - "F70 W" makes sense
F70-14 red POLYGLAS - "F70 X" is the F70-14 red POLYGLAS as the OP's car is a GTX & the RWL tire was not available
F70-14 black w/RWL POLYGLAS (spring special Road Runner & Super Bee ONLY) - "F70 B" is the F70-14 black w/RWL POLYGLAS - is the car a "spring special" Super Bee?

F70-15 red POLYGLAS - "F70x15 R" makes sense
F70-15 white POLYGLAS - "F70x15 W" makes sense

G70-15 red POLYGLAS (A12 ONLY) - "G70x15 R" makes sense

thoughts? any broadcast sheet or window sticker VS. trunk lid confirmations/comparisons?

A search of my Lynch Road data turned up the following for broadcast sheet/window sticker comparison to the trunk marking:

VIN BS/WS MARKING

214177 T82 F70 W
279720 T82 70 W
220739 T83 RED F70
188062 T85 RED F70
166637 U64 F70 W
194789 U65 RED F70X15
253197 U65 70 X
256700 U65 F70 X

Looking at the T82 and U65 codes, you can see the different markings. There was obviously not a consistent process for doing this mark. Many of the A12 cars have a 70 X designation along with other "RED" designations. Attached is the 69 tire code for easy access.

D

Darrin,
Could that "B" possibly been for black side wall? As a kid in a tire shop, many would state turn the white walls in. Just crossed my mind when looking at your findings. Great work by the way, as usual.

That is the only marking I have with the "B" so I am not sure a "Black wall" was even specified. With that said I have none with a F70 R or 70 R so I doubt it is a badly written R. I only have 54 markings tied to VINs and most are repeatable. Below is the only paperwork I have on the "B" marking in the picture above. Following up on Dan's response, you have to wonder what "Special Package" is?

Perhaps others will chime in.

D

Being that's a dealership invoice & not factory, I'm thinking "Special Package" probably refers to White Hat Special/Spring Special.
No mention of vinyl top but Spring Special Plymouths were available with or without that.
Note how late that happened; the '70s were likely showing up on the lot.
As for the X = black sidewalls, I don't recall any BSW F70s or G70s.
For that matter, has it been established that the letters were scribbled on the lids at the same time as the tire size ?
Could they have been more like an "OK" (inspection) mark ?
Mine have looked "same time - same guy" but that's been an assumption of mine.

Instantly turned into a greatly improved thread

Darrin I was hoping you would chime in. Hope to run some other restoration related questions by you in the near future.

Do you know if any of the U65 coded cars on the above list came with body colored wheels (other than black), just to rule out that any of the trunk lid markings refer to wheel color?

The grease pen writing on the lid is to quickly ID what tire goes on the trunk without looking at the broadcast sheet.
The wheels were already on the car with no caps when the spare goes in the trunk, so they can see what wheel needs to be on there.
As we know dog dish gets body color wheels, full covers get black wheels.
So there is no reason to specify the wheel color on the trunk lid.


All we have is 3 different marks on trunk lids is R W and X.
They have 17 exterior colors.
What would the trunk marking be for a green, tan, or blue car?
Then among these colors there are 4 greens, 3 tans, 3 blues, etc

Ever seen a yellow, orange or butterscotch color code on a trunk lid?
Nope thats not what it’s for.

But what about the "X" marking ?

Blackwall ?

Most if not all of these photos are most likely Lynch Road assembled car trunk lids, make of it what you think the "X" means, times as in multiplication, by as in 70 by 15", black as in black sidewall or black wheel color OR the start of an assembly worker playing Tic, Tac, Toe and no one else wanting to play?

All right, I think I am figuring out the pieces to this puzzle thanks to the subtle push from Dan P. Let's go back to the WM21H9A311602 car with the "B" marking I posted above. The dealer invoice indicates a "Special Package" which I think we can safely assume is the "Scat Pak" package, see below. The tag for this car does not indicate a vinyl roof, so we deduce an A40 code exists on the build sheet.

One of the tire options available is the "F70 x 14 Belted BSW with Raised White Lettering (T87)". It sure smells like F70 B belongs to the T87 code. I am off to the broadcast sheet library to search out the T87 code....

D

EDIT: The tag for this car also has the V21 code which was only available with the A39/A40 package. Scat Pak package confirmed....

I only have the broadcast sheet data on the 256700 car, the other was a window sticker. See below. The wheel color is designated as T5 on line 4 and a W25 (stamped steel wheel) option code is shown on line 10. I think we can confidently say the 4 markings (X, W, R, and B) are indicative of the tire sidewall and not the color of the rim.

D

See my previous replies above.

D

So the "X" means the A12's with "70 X" are G70 black sidewall tires?

(My Y4 A12 RM21 Road Runner's trunk lid with 70 X )

Big D I'll throw a wrench or twist into to this thread............have you noticed that those same letters/characters X, W, R, & B also show up stamped into Fender Tags as "inspector's" or "inspection" marks?

LOL, no need to wrench or twist on this one at all. Every digit or letter appears as an inspectors stamp at 1969 Lynch Road except the following: 5,6,9,I,M,Q,V, and Y. I assure you there is no relation between them.

D

Big D what do you make of these? Tire info on the left so what's the need for SHX or SXX or SHY or.........???

The SHX marking is a single persons mark, initials, or ? We have also seen him/her mark in other areas. I have photos of the SHX behind the side scoops on a car. Pretty sure some where else. With that said, I am confident the SHX is a rogue employee with a grease stick. I am confident it has nothing to do do with the topic at hand with regard to tires.

I am assembling a post on the 70X marking we see so much of to answer your other questions but it is past my bed time so stay tuned tomorrow....

D

EDIT (5/7/22): Not a rogue employee for the "SHY" marking. The term "SHY" shows up on the final line inspection document. Meaning unknown at this point.

Doing a little housekeeping. Original Poster (ZIPPY), can you share your complete VIN/tag with me so I can get the data documented and logged. Do you have other documentation with the car, BS or WS. Please PM me here. Thank you.

D

We are down many paths with this thread, but all are tied together with the trunk graffiti. I have never seen the trunk graffiti at other plants. It makes identifying a trunk lid as Lynch Road pretty easy.

The A12 cars are very unique animals. The A12 was an option to the base Super Bee or Roadrunner. Many details on the A12 cars are left over as if it was still a 383 base model. (Tire label, fender tag, broadcast sheet and more) Please read on, I had a revelation while writing this post.

The standard tire on the 1969 Road Runner and Super Bee is an F70 x 14 RSW (T83 code). The most common marking I have for the A12 cars is either F70 X or 70 X. There is good coverage for various G70 x 15 RED markings as well which we know is the tire installed.

As I have been doing research on this topic, I have a question. When do we think this trunk label was applied in the process? Thoughts? Here is another scenario for the group to ponder. Does the F70 X or 70 X on the A12 cars mean no or eliminated? The 383 Road Runner and Super Bees I have record of wear a RED F70 designation. Just had an epiphany, the U65 code also wears a F70 X or 70 X label. Does the X mean 15 inch in place of 14 inch rims? Thoughts.....

Mike, I hope my reply answers your question on the A12 deck lids.

D

Darrin LOL do you remember who you are talking to?? I can pull up copies of posts I did back in the '90's about A12 UNPAINTED FENDER TAGS and more into the mid and late 2000's and 2010-teens! Then don't forget WINGNUTS, dimpled lug nuts, and the missing late '60's - early '70's production information and............Darrin you'll have to go to bed a little later or get up a lot earlier for me to accept that as final. If what you are saying about "70 X" being a carryover from the 383 RR/SB then there should tens of thousands of "70 X" examples on other Lynch Road non-A12 383 Road Runners and Super Bees IMO. How about we check out what's on some of the 383 HP RR's and SB's. Oh and the door sticker with tire pressure on the A12's I think Chrysler got away with that and should have sent out the correct tire info to comply with in place FMVSS regulations. Getting the G70 15 tire compliance was one of the hold ups right before the start of production but that didn't stop them as they already had the open assembly line "windows" planned and filled, they were not going to hold up planned production for some silly little tire pressure label, "Labels? We don't need no stinkin Labels" Reminds me of the Road Runner decals in 1968. Case not closed on my end

Mike

Funny stuff Mike, of course I remember you. Please read what I wrote again. The standard RR and SB are RED F70. Yes, there should be thousands of them out there. I am saying the X was not a sidewall designation like the R, W, and B but an indicator the tires were 15 inch. The data appears to support this across multiple tire codes.

Good to chat again by the way.

D

Big D does "70 X" show up on anything other than '69 A12 cars?

Yes, the 1969 U65 coded cars....HEMI cars. This is the data that supports the "X" is not a sidewall designation but a change in rim size. More data with markings tied to VIN or tags will help support this finding. Less than 24 hours ago I had a different view of this compared to where we are at now.

This is why I enjoy this hobby!

D

Would that mean the "X" might indicate 15" rim as Hemi and A12 cars had them.....................what about station wagons with 15" wheels hmmmmmmmmm? (and where the heck would they write it )

wouldn't the station wagons get markings inside the quarter panel spare tire cover ?

Very interesting thread :-)
I still don't get the intention of the marking. If the wheels were already on the car - why would a spare tire indication be necessary? I mean, if the line worker could see what rim was needed (black or color) he should be able to choose the right tire too? Maybe the correct size was a problem to spot at a glance, but the color of the stripe or RWL was so obvious... ?

what if the trunk was "loaded" before there were wheels/tires on the car or the trunk was also the reference point for the tires on the car

Below is the paragraph from the "Patik" write up on how the Super Birds were built.

Ready sets of four tires, plus the correct spare, are dropped down metal tubes to each side of the Trim Line installation point. Assembly line boredom combined with the desire for efficiency apparently has motivated workers here to learn how to land the spare tire of each and every car with one bounce into the trunk! They will find this trick tougher on the SuperBird; its deck lid opens a limited amount, to prevent it from hitting the fastback panel.

I think we can say the tire installation at Lynch Road did not change from 1969 to 1970. This would lead me to believe the label on the trunk is a quality control check for when the tires/rims are installed on the car. It would make sense that it and other QC marks (interior on the broadcast sheet) would be applied at the beginning of the Trim Line.

Thoughts?

D

DD, when do you think the jack instruction label goes on the trunk lid?

Is it possible that the tires and wheels were installed last, after the interior was finished and broadcast sheets all tucked away? Maybe the trunk lid tire info was written by one of last people to have access to the broadcast sheets, because the tire guys would not have a sheet to reference. I wonder if that’s why some cars built (in other plants?) have a broadcast sheet on the back of the glovebox and no trunk writing, because that sheet was used until the car was completely finished?

And even before the engine and driveline were "married". The "recipe" for assembling a car didn't change that much IMO from plant to plant, maybe the way components were delivered to those points and on which side of the assembly line some of the items may have been installed or placed (LA assembly plant jack instruction on B-bodies is typically on the left of the trunk lid versus the right side in other B-body plants for some reason?) Did the large "build" sheet that was sometimes on the front of the car on the assembly line have the wheel/tire/spare info on it?

Sounds plausible. I think we agree that it's not possible to determine what rim AND tire would be needed just from the marking, without checking another source. And if you'll have to check another source (broadcast sheet or the already installed four wheels), you don't need a marking that tells you what spare to use. So maybe it's some kind of quality control check, that the wheels and spare match the broadcast sheet.

Looks like there might already be a jack instruction label on the trunk lid of this Charger. I know this is the Hamtramck assembly plant but as I mentioned I'm pretty sure the recipe or procedure for Chrysler assembling vehicles during that time did not vary enough to make too many differences in the process. You can see the broadcast sheet for the interior (seat color, level) in the usual seat back and note there is no driveline, engine, etc., thus no wheels or tires. With the height of the car at this point the spare tire would be difficult to place into the trunk so was it in there already at this point or installed farther down the line. I'm starting to think that it may be an inspector's mark as noted confirming the correct spare was in place. Check out the end of the assembly line final control with trunk lid open, trunk lid closed, car being moved off the line. Was the spare and trunk inspected and a mark placed on the lid to confirm anything...................we're all just guessing

I'm starting to think that the last things to go onto the car are the wheels and tires and that the interior, trunk and even the engine compartment is or are 95%-99% complete and that hooking up, bolting in or attaching the already in place components is all that is done after the driveline is installed. Look at these images and what's left but attaching the drive line to what is already there. The steering column attached to the steering box on the K-frame, trans linkage, throttle cable, trans kickdown linkage, leaf springs, brake hoses, etc., which to me would mean the interior and trunk were finished by this point, meaning no wheels/tires on the care to key off of for the spare.

I just talked to my old friend that worked on the line and I asked about the spare and the markings. He said the spare was put into the car long before he put the wheels and tires on the car which was near the end of the line. He also said the markings under the deck lid was an inspector at the end of the line that checked the spare,jack, trunk mat and any other related items. The marks all depended on what the inspector wanted to scribble they all did their own thing, The tire was the main thing they noted.

Thanks for doing the research and posting that

Mike

Thank you very much!

Much appreciated. Thanks for asking him about it. I was thinking it would have been nice to have been able to ask my father about this. He worked at the Newark assembly plant when I was a kid, but passed away a few years ago. He probably would have remembered more about the soccer games they played with empty bolt boxes than he would have about the details of the cars though. 😄

Thanks for reaching out to him. This does tie together many of the comments from the group. Reading your post, it sounds like he was working it the trim section of the line at Lynch Road? I have many questions about the process there.

The comments in the previous "Patik" article on the Super Birds could be unique to that model.

D

Did you folks ever read the write up “building a Superbird”. It documents the assembling of a Superbird form pulling the sheet metal off the rack and spot welding to the done car. Just the Chrysler factory part, not the creative industries add ons.

Some of the guesses above are comical, sit back and read this and learn how a car was assembled.

http://www.wwnboa.org/patik.htm

It is referenced several times in the thread as the "Patik" article since he is the author. Thanks for your input.

D

IMO this is a wrong order of assembly and it's shown to be wrong in the photos I posted, again IMO.

Note that the Trim Line is listed AFTER the Chassis Department: Engine "dress" mating or as it is called the "marriage" of the engine-transmission-rear end assemblies. You can clearly see those items in place BEFORE that point.
Also "Final Line: Glass, INTERIOR, and final details were also in place long before that point according to not only the assembly line photos I posted but many, many others.

The Lynch Road Plant consists of six major areas of assembly, each of which functions as a nearly-independent mini-factory.

Metal Shop = Body-in-White (BIW): assembly of complete bare body.
Paint Shop: metal preparation, painting.
Chassis Department: Engine "dress," mating of engine-transmission-rear end assemblies.
Trim Line: Installation of body mechanical and electrical parts and sub-assemblies.
Final Line: Glass, interior, final details.
Car conditioning: Repair of completed vehicles, misc. tasks.

Another question about the Superbird, did each Superbird have an individual Scheduled Production Date or a group "window" date like the two SPD's of the A12 of 3/29 and 4/26??

I can also tell you straight from Dick Maxwell's mouth to me in several personal talks with him how Production Planning and Fleet Engineering handled the A12 cars and how they were scheduled into the never saw stop assembly line. Strip away the unique special items that made the Superbirds and show me what couldn't be done on the standard assembly line?? Nothing special about the engine, driveline, interior, mounting fenders, paint, BIW, etc., just the nose cone, and wing most all of the rest was not that different that say a '69 Charger 500 including its flush rear window. On the A12 there were only a few things that couldn't be installed or done on the normal assembly line and those were the installation of the fiberglass hood, carburetors, hood decals and the high idle solenoid, Everything else was the same as if it were a Hemi Road Runner/Super Bee or a 440 GTX/RT. Dick said that the hood and items that were not assembly line items were done in a special area after the cars were finalized. Which you can see by the two different directions the SIX PACK decals were installed on the A12 Super Bees Now what about the SPD's for the Superbird?

Mike

We all know that Superbirds were built at Lynch Road and 68 Chargers were built at Hamtramck.
Certainly could be different order of procedures at the different plants.

Yes could be I'll see what I can find for Lynch Road.

According to (Darrin's aka Big D A12) Lynch Road "TAXI" build brochure the interior is done AFTER the body and driveline are mated and on the wheels. Yes Lynch Road Assembly is DIFFERENT than Hamtramck

Included is a "W" like on the left side of the windshield in the second image, found inside of an A12's driver's door.

And to keep it fun let's play find the sometimes only slightly painted and most time NOT bent Lynch Road Fender Tag and the reason why

It's hanging on the top of windshield channel. I think with a wire hook.

Guy in club had a Butterscotch A12 Super Bee that when they re-did the headliner there was an outline of of the fender tag or something.

I think that car was mostly original paint. Wonder where it ended up. Sold out of So Cal in mid to late 90's.

LOL I have had more that one expert try and tell me my tag on the runner is fake because there was no bend. A little knowlege is dangerous.

Let’s summarize this thread based upon the original post. What do the 1969 Lynch Road trunk graffiti letters mean? Specifically, the “X” but others as well.

The letters specify the sidewall color, except the “X”.

R or Red: Red Sidewall
W: White Sidewall
B: Raised White Letter Sidewall (A14/A15 or A39/A40 options only, T87 tire code)

X = Not a sidewall designation. Data supports a 15-inch rim is the intent of the X. Research continues.


Other salient points that emerged from the discussion.

1. In 1969 at Lynch Road the spare tire was installed before the other wheels. This is supported by date codes on the spare tire rim being sometimes significantly different than the other 4 rims.

2. The trunk marking is for quality assurance applied at the end of the line. Data supports there were only a few line workers who did this assurance check. This is supported by the consistent handwriting and repeatability of the markings.

These points are supported by eyewitness account of an employee who worked at Lynch Road on the line in 1969. Point 1 differs with the “Patik” article on the 1970 Super Birds. I feel we need to be careful comparing pictures/articles from various model years and or plants as processes obviously changed.


Moving forward, I encourage everyone to help with the research on this topic. When you see a 1969 Lynch Road trunk graffiti mark, please collect photos of the marking, VIN, fender tag, window sticker and broadcast sheet if available. Without the marking tied to the car, it just adds more questions than answers.

Thank you everyone for participating in the thread. I hope to see more photos posted in the future.

D