Where are the VIN numbers stamp on a 1969 Road Runner

I have a old drag race car that a new customer drop off for me to look at, it is really chop up missing the dash, the door post VIN tag, rear package tray, all the floor boards and rear sub frames. He has no title and wasn't told by the previous owner who had it for over 10 yrs what motor came in the car before he got it.
I want to help him find out which motor was in the car originally, 383, 426, 440 or?
I don't work on cars usually or post on here. I only work on Mopar race motors and Hi Po pump gas street motors but this guy was told to bring it to me to look at the motor before starting it since it has set for over ten years since last run. He wants to drag race it here locally at our 1/8 mile track in Madras, OR and I am willing to help any racers as long as their racing Mopars.
All help appreciated on helping me help him, Thanks in advance

Look for #s on backside of upper rad support, facing the radiator.
Also under trunk weatherstrip at left quarter, towards the rear, stamped into the quarter weatherstrip flange.
Hemi car may have its unique K-frame, and gussets at ft & rear leaf spring mounts (sounds like no help there), snubber reinforcement, and plated 3-speed wiper motor (though that was an option for all).
Only '69 440 RR would be an A12 (aka 440+6, or "SixPack") - no hood hinges, hood pin supports.
OEM exhaust is likely long gone but also tells which engine; no H means 383, for example.
OEM fuel line size is also a clue, 5/16" = 383.
If underside of floor pans was originally black, L.A. build - all others grey.
There are a couple guys here that can decode even a partial VIN & tell the exact car you have.

9A would be the only one that would have a 440, it could also have a 383 or 426. If you see any other plant code (A is Lynch Rd), then it's not a 440.

I forgot about the VIN # on the trunk lid being stamped there also, THANKS
I tried to feel for the number on the radiator core support and couldn't so I will get a mirror today and look at it better from the bottom side.
I am under the impression that the 1968 RR where made only with the 383 and 426 motors, I ws tol dthat the 1969 had the 440 HP as well as the M code cars having the six pack option in mid year 1969, hence the 1969 1/2 model designation. True or not
This car is really hack up

Zero '69 RRs built with 440s, except for the A12 cars. Period.
No 440s in them for '68 either, and for '70, again only 440+6 cars and the Superbird.
Rad support # (it's a partial VIN) should be pretty obvious, unless there's a ton of paint or the upper yoke was replaced.
Heck, if the car's that cut up, it probably doesn't matter what it came with; odds are huge it was a 383 car, though.

If its a Road Runner!

From my research LA built ('69) B-bodies had the "A9XXXXXX" last characters of the VIN stamped ON TOP of the radiator support on the drivers side NOT on the backside of the support. My LA built '69 GTX has it on top and I didn't know it, I had asked my friend to check for it as the car was in Texas and I had told him where it should be on the backside he came back and said he couldn't find it . I got nervous and disappointed but when I got to the car I found it on the top of the radiator support driver's side. Then I started to notice why the engine coolant label was off to the center of the top of the radiator support on LA cars and always more to the far driver's side of the support on St. Louis, Hamtramck and Lynch Road B-bodies.........so the LA B-body had the VIN where the other plants put the engine coolant info label if your looking for it.

This is where the coolant info label is, more toward the center of the rad support, on LA built cars and the VIN is toward the top side of the driver's side, (where the other plants put the coolant info label).

Mike

Radiator support opening for 22" or 26" is a small clue to some point depending upon rear original axle ratio sometimes. Also if it has a power brake booster it will be off-set up and to the driver's side if it was a Hemi for the large Hemi valve covers. Not sure if all Hemi's got power brakes (booster)???

Torsion bars (end coding) were different for a Hemi if I'm not mistaken?

The number on the trunk lip and on the back side, in front of the radiator, driver side of the core support, not on the bottom edge is G 9 168391
I look again at the door post and the rivet holes have been filled in with bondo, no tag vin though
I'm wondering if this body was, is, a Satellite and not R.R. it is a two door hardtop also. Which body is it?
Again thanks for all of your help on figuring out what this car really is so I can tell the owner

Well the "G" makes it a St. Louis assembly plant car so that's a little help as you can eliminate a Lynch Road only A12 440 6bbl car.

There's nothing I know of that was riveted on any door posts that would have a VIN in '69 only a compliance to FMVSS standards LABEL/DECAL on the driver's inside front door frame.

Do the lower control arms (LCA) have swaybar link attachments or does it have a swaybar or not? Also on the driver's side with the rear seat cushion and seat back removed does it have a dual exhaust hanger plate for the left side dual exhaust that would only be on certain B-body V8 engine options?

Does it have the original doors and front fenders?

And the original trunk lid?

The only stock parts on this car are the front sub frame, radiator core support, and front suspension and main body shell, all others parts are non stock including the entire floor from the rear bumper forward, no part of the original firewall is left either
Did the Lynch plant make all three styles of the B Bodies, GTX, R.R. and Satellite in 1969 ?

YES as far as I know.........also the Belvedere and B-body Taxi cabs etc. I think Lynch Road was the largest B-body production plant.....well they at least had some of the highest VIN's into the 300,000 sequence numbers.......don't know if that even means anything

But if you're saying you pulled a "G" from a trunk drip rail or the radiator support then most likely it is a St. Louis built B-body and you should keep going from there IMO.

can you determine the original color?

the closest VIN I have for '69 St. Louis is a special order "99" paint Road Runner - these were sometimes assigned VINs in batches

Is there any known spots on the front sub frame and or front suspension parts that would have complete vin #
This car has been a drag car for a long time and may have been raced in Las Vegas years ago, red with a complete cage running low 9s is what the owner was told.
It was bought and brought up here to central Oregon and sat in a garage for over 5 yrs, maybe 10 yrs
The car has plexiglas windows that are faded and mess up, it has a set of early Centerlines with big and little tires, Ford 9 inch with ladder bars and coil overs, I'll try to post a picture of it on here tomorrow.

if the complete unibody still exists it would only have the 2 partial VIN stamps on it - core support & trunk lip - I'll ask around - the pic would help

LA plant would be E9XXXXXX

Wes Eisenschenk has a registry of 1969 Road Runners. Maybe he has the info on file?

Here are three pictures, more later maybe

At this point in the cars history its a moot point,even if it where a HEMI car or A12 it will never be returned back to original, its just a curiosity to want to know but don't go nuts over it.

I bought a 1969 Dodge Polara from the California Highway Patrol in May or June of 1969, it had 50,258 miles on it and they had blown up the motor. When I went to pick it up the officers in the yard offer me another one that ran with 53.000 miles on it that had a broken trans. case from them chasing someone over some rocks out in the desert eats of Indio ,CA for another $200.00. I turn it down as I had already bought a rolled over 1965 Fury 2 from a local junk yard that had 19,250 miles on it with a 383 and a 4 sped in it.
My message is the Highway Patrol Officer ended up telling that all 1969 Dodges had the VIN stamp into the body in 19 different locations, he mention the radiator core support., the floor in front of passenger in the front seat, the cowl, the package tray on top behind the rear seat, ,the right rear sub frame on the inner side near the front of the gas tank and several others he wouldn't reveal to me back then
IHTHs

Wive's tale IMO................in all of my years I have never seen or heard of more than two partial VIN's (last 8 characters of the 13 character VIN) stamped onto the radiator support and trunk drip rail (ie., body) of a '69 B-body. The only other locations for any kind of VIN identification is the engine and the transmission. If there were ever 19 stamping(s) on a '69 Mopar someone by now would have found a car with more than just the two known locations.........

As stated, as of now there's is no way to prove what it is or what it was or what it wasn't so the owner can make it what ever he wants it to be and no one can prove him right or wrong.

The only thing in my opinion that may give any kind of a clue is if the doors and trunk lid are original to the car and then (I'm not sure) but if the holes for the door "road runner" emblem and the trunk lid "road runner" emblem are still visible from the door's and trunk lid insides (like filler or weld) that's the only clue IMO that it might have been a RR???

Edit: taking another look at the '69 Plymouth B-bodies the road runner was the only B-body with an emblem on the doors and the trunk lid had no filler plate and the road runner emblem on the passenger's side. And yes a HEMI emblem on the driver's side. the Belvedere the other only coupe/post B-body had a large PLYMOUTH emblem on the passenger's side. If there's trunk lid filler plate mounting holes that were closed and visible from the inside of the trunk lid then that really throws a curve in this as there was no '69 coupe/post car that had a trunk filler plate

Do you really think the CA Highway Patrol would have made that lie up and made it state wide knowledge for their officer to use on stolen car cases?
All the E bodies cars I've owned have had the sequence code stamp under the windshield wiper access plastic covers as well in the passenger side floor boards
I bought a 1969 Dart GTS in 1991 that had the VIN tag on the dash mistamped from the factory, the 2 was directly stamped over the top of the 3
One of one, according to Galen. He had never heard of one leaving the factory, let alone seen one like it
When the guy I got it from shared that information with me he told me that the car had to be taken to a Highway Patrol office and left for the day for them to inspect all the VIN locations to make sure it wasn't stolen or hand made by a car chop shop Once they were done they made a steel tag and rivited to the inside of the left door post, it is still their now

Absolutely, a CHP would officer tell you that. He wanted to make sure you would remember that and never try to swap vins on a car. I’ve owned and restored probably 75 mopars in my lifetime and I can promise you this. There are NOT 19 hidden VIN stampings on a mopar. There may be some sheet metal codes stamped on individual places but not vin numbers.

I think this wives tale comes from looking at pictures in old "Motor Car" generic manuals or maybe it was an interchange manual. An old coworker of mine had the book. Had a dark blue hardcover on it and was about 2.5" - 3" thick. There was picture of a generic car pointing to 20 or so different locations a VIN could be stamped or found. This is for ALL cars and ALL years that were covered as part of this manual. I've stripped two B-bodies (68 and 69) and two e-bodies (70 and 72) and never found any other places of the partial VIN or SO number other than what we know. Yes there are numbers stamped in the other panels, but they are usually date code/die numbers. I've seen them up to 5 digits, but usually only three digits.

This car has the the sequence code stamp where I said they were, not the full VIN #
Sorry for not being specific on that to start with.
I'll have to look at my stock 1969 Dart GTS H code car next to see where the numbers are stamp on it
My 1970 Dodge Challenger T/A had the numbers stamp on the cowl under the plastic windsheild wiper access cover and on the passenger side floor boards and on the rear package tray The guy I sold it to wanted to make sure it was a real T/A and looked at those locations mention as well several other places before buying it to restore it
That car was from Santa Monica, CA near the beach originally and was really rusty from the fog and dew, it ran really good though
The guy I got it from use to race it up in the Santa Monica hills north of Hollywood on Mulholland drive, crazy youngsters

musclecar era Mopars ONLY have 2 partial VIN (shipping order before '69) stamps on the unibody PERIOD *** format & locations vary by year, plant & body style

just about every piece of sheet metal has stamping info related to: who, where or when the piece was manufactured but none are VIN related

if someone wants to provide proof to the contrary, I'll wait ............... but it is not going to happen

Back in about 1990 we had a 1969 car that drew some attention. Being a dealer the Michigan State Police came in and verified what was there,. The car did not have a motor or transmission. The inspector said motor and transmission are so easily swapped and had little to do with what he needed to see. He viewed dash VIN, core support, left trunk rail. Said that is all he needed to see.I talked to him some more and from what he had to use as his tools this was it. Messed up deal with a bank the car a loan and a missing motor and transmission.

Why would Mopar stamp the sequence numbers where I have found them on several of my cars if they stamped them in only two places pre 1969?
I was not looking to become a expert on VIN locations when that Highway Patrolman told me about the 19 different locations It was a casual conversation about the cars they drove and the one I bought to make into a family car back in 1969
I have looked at and seen more than 3 partial VIN numbers, the sequence numbers, since then stamped into the inner side of right rear sub frame close to the shock cross member
Why did Mopar start hand stamping the VIN # on the motors and tranny in 1968? No I.D. on the motors, trannies or any other drive train parts prior to that
LBJ had been President and the "Great Society" and government interference into most businesses was occurring a lot back then Did the U.S. Justice Department make them do that?

The various locations mentioned to you in part were uses on various manufacturers on various cars. For example vw bugs are stamped on under the rear seat on the linkage tunnel, some vehicles are stamped near spring perches and trans cross members. I've also heard of stamps on the panel lip in taillight openings and other sheetmetal parts viewable as the vehicle travells down the assembly line. I suppose it was important to get the correct chassis to body and correct motor crossmember into a unibody.
In the past I've read the evolution of vin was first used in the 50's to i.d. /match vehicle to title, later also to insure compliance with safety and smog requirements and of course to insure motor swaps were not using stolen, or older motors installed into a newer body for warranty fraud.
Motorcycles, VW Bugs and several other manufacturers and body styles are looked over closely during licensing inspections especially when coming interstate.
re mopars 6bbl's 2 locations, I agree.

I did know several drag racers that got original M code 1969 1/2 R.R. six pack cars, they had the full VIN on the dash pad, the fender tag and on the left door post tag or on the left door decal.
I'm not sure about the radiator core support having the full VIN or just the sequence number on those cars.
I do know one guy the back half a old 1969 1/2 M code six pack 4 speed drag race car to sell it faster instead of removing the non stock welded in suspension parts on the rear sub frame of the car
I'm pretty sure the new owner back east got after him legally about that based off of the incorrect number on the rear sub frame after he got the car delivered to him

FIXED

Are you saying you have a 1969 1/2 M code Road Runner that doesn't have the full vin number on the door decal or door post tag and the fender tag?

YES

The Lynch Road fender tags have only the last 8 characters of the of the 13 character complete VIN. No door post tag with any part of the VIN. Upper right of the '69 Lynch Road fender tags read: A9XXXXXX, no complete VIN. But you could find the RM21 or RM23 in the lower left but NO "M" for special engine (440) on the fender tag as the tag still listed the E63 383 engine as the A12 package was an option or added components to the 383 RR and 383 Super Bee's. The only "M" was in the 5th position of the dash VIN.

The only door post decal is on the driver's "A" pillar and that is the SAFETY decal that states that at the time of manufacturing completion the vehicle was in compliance with Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS). You may be thinking of the '70 model year "A" pillar decals that did have the complete VIN.

69 Road Runners do not have door sticker with VIN. That was a requirement the US Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard to identify the date of manufacture to ensure that the vehicle conforms to the safety standard effective of the date of manufacturer. This requirement wasn't mandated until the 1970 model year. The partial VIN is only on the core support and trunk lip on the 69 Road Runner. Those places are the ONLY stamped numbers only from the factory. If there is VIN or partial VIN in other locations, it was not stamped by the factory. The factory used a machine that stamped the numbers. The numbers were indexed by the line worker according to the broadcast sheet when the body was completed before paint (My 68 and 69 both had paint in the VIN stampings so I am assuming stamped before paint, though I can see fresh paint not flaking if stamped after). A similar stamping machine was used to stamp the motor and transmission, again to the broadcast sheet that was part of that cells process. The throat on the body stamp machine does have a decent but fixed distance, so the body stampings are are placed in areas where the "C" shaped machine could stamp it. That's why the VIN is usually on a lip or easily accessible panel. The throat is large enough to get the stamps on the cowls and package tray on the E body and A body respectively. If you have seen stampings elsewhere they could have been placed there as part of insurance company program for theft recovery Same service offered today with laser etching parts. Since the numbers were indexed (or set) by a worker, there are on occasions, errors. My 70 Challenger has two digits swapped on the body stamping from the VIN tag and title.

Here's a video I made about the numbers on my 69 Road Runner...