Washers under wing nuts for six pack air cleaners?

I was looking at Rogers Gibson’s website and he lists washers under the wing nuts for six packs and four barrels? I assume he’s correct but never have seen any. I bought my cars when none of them were new so I can say for sure. Any comments or pictures?

Oh, FFS's here we go again.

If the nibs on the reproduction tires thread wasn't bad enough, we have another member that can't use a dremel tool on 0.0001 cent hardward store washer.

Well, let 'er rip: photos, shipping costs, and how much these magic beans cost?

I'm selling factory correct tire air for tires, deposit required for the container (1 per tire). Deposit is $500 and the air is $250 each.

I've never seen a washer under any air cleaner wingnut, the wingnuts are purpose smooth on the bottom to prevent gouging the lid. I imagine Gibson includes them to make the use optional.

^^^ Agree. It wouldn't make much sense to introduce, in mass quantity:
1. An extra part not required
2. A possible point/cause of failure (washer in carb).
I would bet Chrysler - and 99% of customers - had absolutely zero concern for wingnut damage to the air filter lid.

Well Grizz, once again you prove you are a noodle. You can’t even comprehend my question. They make the political forum for you so can stir up problems.

Thanks got the two members that can actually understand my question. I’ve never seen a washer under a wing nut either. Looks like a accident waiting to happen. Small parts can fly taking off the air cleaner. I agree that the correct wing nut has a large surface just for a flat surface.

This may not be what you're referring to but I thought I would post this picture in case it helps.

Mike.

No but Bill O and I were talking about ones like that. He saw one in a six pack car but looks like to me that would really scar up the outer most of the nut. My oem ones appear to be smaller in diameter and smooth on the bottom. The separate oem washer was my question. I’ve never seen one and roger and frank seem to be the expert on most things oem. Idk.

I personally have never seen a washer there. But I didn't start messing with Mopars till maybe 1977 , or 78.

And I obviously have not see a ton of low mileage cars either

My car is a million miles away from stock.
It has a road runner air grabber air cleaner (single 4bbl) and there are 2 washers under the wing nuts.
Granted this is all on a 340 Challenger, but guy said he transplanted the whole deal.
Did he add the washers, no way of telling, I just assumed they belonged.

This is from a July 1969 Popular Hot Rodding magazine. A test car with 2000 miles on a new early build 1969 Charger R/T. Note chrome shifter, emission sticker on passenger side and a Plymouth horn button.

...and there is the washer.

^^^ But someone was hopping that car up (headers) and could have added that washer.
Most of the musclecar-era magazine test cars were "rubbed on" before the reviewers got them (and often afterwards of course).
Dead-stock assembly-line photos would provide the definitive answer if known-untouched 1-owner cars aren't adequate proof.
By the same token, a washer added 50 years ago could be a forgotten alteration, and look original now.

I feel that it is appropriate for me to reply to Fastmark's post for a couple of reasons. For one, I am the anal retentive member responsible for the post that Grizzly refers to about the reproduction tires:

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthread...lyglas-gt-f60-15-tires.html#Post2738415. I apologize for wasting space on the server with my worthless and trivial post, but I thought this was a restoration forum.

Now, about the washer and wing nut. I can't speak for the 6 and 4 barrel engines, but I can say that my original 71 Barracuda with 318 2-barrel had a washer under the wing nut when my father purchased it with 13,000 miles. It was a Chrysler owned rental car before he bought it. Can I say with 100% certainty that the washer wasn't added before it came into our family? Nope. But I can provide a Dodge promotional photo of a 71 Challenger 318 with a washer on the air cleaner.

pilot / press photos of '69 440HP Daytona - '70 340 Swinger - '71 440 6-Pack Super Bee with washers

these are the MINORITY, most engine compartment photos show no washer

those are FoMoCo wing nuts, there is even a divot for that punched tab to get caught in, on the lid

I've seen them on lots of the round four barrel air cleaners, but cant say they were untouched.
If you go by this print they dont show washers here, and they do show the wingnuts with part number 6028729

Thanks guys. That’s what I was looking for. And David, I thought your post on the tires was very relevant for a car board restoration forum. I enjoy this board for the Q and A, not the crap that goes on in the unmoderated forum. Unfortunately, that attitude bleeds over to the rest of the forums. I see mistakes made all the times by uncaring restoration shops. I’m dealing with a bolt that was placed where a stud should have been. The longer bolt punched a hole in the cowl of the car and it leaks into the car when it rains! How stupid. It’s in a hard place to fix, as well. So anytime I can help people not make an informed decision is better for all.

Anyway, back to the subject. I can see the washer being a good thing on a pie pan equipped air cleaner. It saves the paint on the aluminum pan.

THAT IS SOME FUNNY SH%& (No disrespect to the original question though)

Been thinking awhile on this, way back into the 60s and now pretty certain they had a washer. If not now, somewhere along the line some person was to lazy to re install out just lost it.

There was a washer on standard 4 bbl breathers. On 69 1/2 six bbl there were no washers. But a special style wing nut that is not correctly reproduced. I posted comparison pics in the monumental "wing nut" discussion on here.

Where are these pics you posted ?

FWIW

I dug out an article on Gibosn detailing a shaker equipped hemi from the mid 90's.
There is an image in the article with a caption discussing the different nuts used and there being only one type of washer used.

The 70-71 parts book shows a washer being used on the dual snorkel 4bbl air cleaners with a pie tin. Did not see washers in the drawings for the other configurations, some don't even show the wingnuts.

The MMC Guide to e-body fastener book shows a washer with it's dimensions and finish.

In case you were lost, this was posted in the "moparts restoration & A-12 forum". If you don't like to read these types of discussions, I'd suggest visiting other forums instead. Unlike you,some of us are interested in this and don't need to be told by you why it isn't important.

Gibson is correct. There are factory washers under the wing nuts on a '69 Ramcharger air cleaner lid. Mine is a 4 barrel (383 Super Bee) car with the oval air cleaner just like the six pack ones except the base is for a 4 barrel instead of 3 two barrels. So, I imagine the six pack cars are probably the same? I've owned my Bee for more than 47 years.

Didn’t the washers or wing nuts have little ribs to keep them from backing off?

Never saw a washer under a '69 A12 air cleaner wing nut or a Lynch Road Hemi Road Runner......This is the '69 survivor F8 Hemi Road Runner wing nut at Carlisle 2005. BUT there is a washer under a '69 survivor 383 Super Bee from the same event and also a Lynch Road assembly car. Also on the Hemi RR you can pretty much tell there was never a washer there for a long, long time...................maybe when it showed up at the dealership but not after that.....just an opinion and you know what they say.

(Mike I think those are the rare original air cleaner wing nuts in the Hemi close up if I'm not mistaken and pretty sure that's why I took those photos at Carlisle. Have a photo if the battery hold down wing nut from the same Hemi RR If you like......and I think it has a WASHER under it

Well, this is getting interesting. Looking at Gibson website, there are two different washers and part numbers. He list them for a pie pan and 70-71 six pack as PPW as a large washer. For a 69.5 and hemi he uses part no HACW, which I assume as smaller. Now he uses words like “ correct “ and “authentic “. The wing nuts are listed as “ correct style”.

Looking at Gibson site, there is only one style of wing nut for all air cleaners. My AAR was purchased in 77. It has the smaller wing nuts that look just like the one pictured above. My Superbird, purchased in 82, has the exact same small ones. I’ve got various other small ones purchased with with separate six packs intakes and carbs over the years. I do have one that is slightly bigger that is the same style. Not sure where it came from. I guess I missed “the wing nut thread”. Lol.

The unrestored 68 Charger that I once owned had the washer under the wing nut.

A12 yes that is the style of the original wing nuts in your picture. The interesting thing is that the 4 bbl wing nut attaches to a larger diameter stud while the 6 bbl wing nut stud is smaller in diameter. Also as shown in the factory diagram there wasn't a washer under the wing nut on the "shaker" tin.
Wish I could find the thread that went on forever about these wing nuts. Anyone have that?

This snip from the '70-'71 Parts Catalog shows that they were used on some installations...notably with the pie pan.

I still have the original pie pan off an 80k mile '71 GTX and the paint wear clearly indicates that there was a washer on there. Now, it is entirely possible that the washer had been added during the car's life, but I doubt that it was.

The epic washer thread. Stay on topic everyone and leave the wing nut out of this!

Moderators, be sure to have this moved to the "best of moparts" so that future generations will be able to see why classic Mopars went downhill.

$5 for a washer that probably came off of a '78 Pinto. Good one, Roger!

Grizzly wing nuts are not read the title that includes the words "wing nut" doh! Topics like this and others like painted or unpainted (or bent/not bent) fender tags are what keeps the HOBBY of classic Mopars alive, FUN, interesting and way better than arguing about politics on a CLASSIC and non-classic MOPAR HOBBY site. If you want to be a buzz kill and have nothing to add you know where you can go.................don't want you to do that but why not either add some interesting experience about the subjects or not at all?

Now here's a wing nut (without a washer under it) from what was claimed to be one of the most original '66 Hemi Chargers at Carlisle '05..........and the owner took it off and handed it to me for a 360 photo. He had great fun letting me look at the details and even pulled an original battery cap off to show the difference from the repo's but that is way, way So I won't go there for Grizzly's sake. Come on Grizzly join in and have a little fun before the classic Mopar hobby gets driven downhill by.........


Mike

I think most of you guys are "nuts" !!

Original 70 340 air cleaner

Luv the Grizz, keep’em coming, lol

No, they did not...just thin flat washers

Mike, my A12’s always had washers. I wasn’t the original owner but second owner on my black one in 1972. I had to deal with those washers often since I raced the car and always took the top and air filter off when I was racing.

I'm keeping this one, it was Bill O's last post in a Mopar restoration/hobby forum and pretty sure directed directly at me..............as I said Bill O was a straight shooter. Already missing his wit


JD I think only the factory parts and technical illustrations can really confirm washer or no washer, and as we know, what actually happened all of the time on the assembly line is not always inline with those documents. For me having a wing nut without a washer is crude engineering practice and especially on a painted or wrinkle finish air filter cover. I have a couple of autographed air filter covers and a couple of original covers too that will get washers even if we find illustrations showing no washers.

But hey don't let this stop the fun of these silly, nutty threads.....still better than politics

Mike

This is about six pack air cleaners. I worked on a few back when they were new and there were no washers. My 72 Barracuda 318 I purchased new had no washer. With Chrysler back then who knows. Maybe some had them. The only way to know would be to speak with some original six pack owners who still have their cars.

I was the original owner of an A12, White RR with a black vinyl top.
It was a long time ago, but I don't remember washers on mine.

Joe

Some of the factory technical illustrations were not 100% accurate. The 1969 parts and service manuals showing J bolts for exhaust tips for example. That was an old illustration they cut and pasted in the 69 manuals. I always had to contend with washers on my A12’s and Hemi cars...but I cannot say without a doubt that they were original that way. I would use washers and I don’t think any judge will dispute it unless you use bright zinc plated hardware store washers. The original nuts and washers were not shiny or plated

The thin pie pans seem to have had washers, while the heavier air cleaner lids without the pie pans seem to have not needed them. If true, then the OP's question about the six packs/bbls would be that they normally did not come with washers. Never say never, but..................

Anybody else see that pattern?

Can anyone tell me what these Chrysler part numbers are:

120386


126177

148312


Thanks in advance.

Mike

aren't Chrysler part numbers 7-digits?

Yes but these are fasteners or wing nuts (I think?) and washers (I think also???). Trying to confirm.

A lot of fasteners show up as 6, problem it is a generic chart with basic size usually. I think all cars had them, but when owner discarded starter seal, they also discarded the air cleaner washer.

Usually, except Section 18 of the factory parts book where the numbers are usually six digits or less.

John that info is awesome, especially with the illustrations. The part numbers I listed above are for the A12 package and are the "addition" part numbers for the wing nuts and washers to be added for the A12 air filter cover. According to the info the A12 should have (spec'd) washers under the wing nuts. John, any chance of finding those part numbers and the illustrations for those specific parts? Please Thanks in advance.

Mike

There in the parts book which you can find on line. But it will be generic in nature.