What happened to the missing late 60s production data? - 10/08/2004:33 PM
Just saw the old statement in another thread of the late 60's Chrysler production data that was "lost" in a fire, thrown into a dumpster, stolen, or just plain gone "missing" and never to be found again. This is the link where it was discussed in length:
I'll offer this, I spoke with several people in "Chrysler Archives" and Chrysler Historical back when they were getting ready to build the W. P. Chrysler Museum and was told stories from "they were thrown out", "they were water damaged and thrown out", the records were recorded on a format that the information cannot be retrieved because the retrieval equipment is obsolete and Chrysler will not spend the money to re-create this equipment" (I'll look for the thread on here where I explained this and how NASA had the same issue) and then I was told that some "general" information still exist like the amount of material like paint and vinyl is still around but nothing to tell anyone which cars were painted which color or how many had a vinyl roof or which color interior. Someone there at Chrysler told me he knew of someone in Michigan that has the "Tub File" with all of the '68-'70 car colors and could possibly tell how many cars were painted a certain color and I had the name but never was able to make a contact but I may be able to find that person's name. I know someone else that knows him and they may chime in if they read this....I hope.
Re: What happened to the missing late 60s production data? - 10/08/2006:26 PM
The IBM 305 RAMAC, publicly announced on September 13, 1956,[1][2] was the first commercial computer that used a moving head hard disk drive (magnetic disk storage) for secondary storage. RAMAC stood for "Random Access Method of Accounting and Control". Its design was motivated by the need for real-time accounting in business.[3] The first RAMAC to be used in the US auto industry was installed at Chrysler's MOPAR Division in 1957. It replaced a huge tub file which was part of MOPAR's parts inventory control and order processing system. The 305 was one of the last vacuum tube computers that IBM built. The IBM 350 disk system stored 5 million 8-bit (7 data bits plus 1 parity bit) characters. It had fifty 24-inch-diameter (610 mm) disks. Two independent access arms moved up and down to select a disk, and in and out to select a recording track, all under servo control. Average time to locate a single record was 600 milliseconds. Several improved models were added in the 1950s. The IBM RAMAC 305 system with 350 disk storage leased for $3,200 per month in 1957 dollars, equivalent to a purchase price of about $160,000. More than 1,000 systems were built. Production ended in 1961; the RAMAC computer became obsolete in 1962 when the IBM 1405 Disk Storage Unit for the IBM 1401 was introduced, and the 305 was withdrawn in 1969.
Re: What happened to the missing late 60s production data? - 10/09/2002:49 PM
I should have re-read the entire thread again to find the outstanding efforts of 6PAKTOGOBEE If anyone can help with the request for just one example of actual production data from that time period to show that some or any of the information might have been out there that would be great!
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Re: Factory Documentation Reply #27 - 12/21/11 at 14:17:15 Quote
Quote from 6PK2GOBEE on 12/21/11 at 13:57:00:
Thank you to everyone who responded when the question was put out there on the whereabouts of the factory records. I sent a link to this forum to Brandt Rosenbusch manager of Historical services for the Chrysler group. As a result of his reading this forum he requested my phone number by Email and we spoke at length this past Monday AM. When he came on board at Chrysler Historical he, along with another employee that started there in '78, searched for the records but this search also wasn't 100%. He had heard the same rumors that they were destroyed in a fire, also a flood, but THERE IS NO RECORD OF THE RECORDS EVER HAVING BEEN DESTROYED. He has asked this "guru" fellow if he has the records and he has said no. He has also stated that these records are the property of Chrysler and cannot be used by any individual for any purpose. What he did tell me is the records were stored for a time in a basement location on site. They were also stored in trailers on site and he said this would have been a much less secure location that could have been accessable by anyone on the grounds. He did not know if the Canadian source of information in this forum got his records from that group of records or plant records from Windsor. That said , I was told by him they are re-launching a thorough plant and company wide search for the records. This is being done in coordination with security at Chrysler. Also, he will be meeting with Security and the Legal department(s) after the 1st of the year to explore publishing a public appeal for the return of the records to the archives without fear of prosecution (Amnesty). He has said that he will be back in contact with me after he speaks to them. THIS PART IS VERY IMPORTANT: Brandt has told me it would help his case for the public appeal very much if there were some proof that the records do exist. INFORMATION ON ONE CAR WOULD DO IT ! This is where I will appeal to everyone reading this forum to step up if you can and provide that link. If you have any information you can either Email it to me at: or directly to Brandt Rosenbusch at: Your confidentiality is guaranteed by me if you wish. I will forward all information directly to Brandt without your contact information if you desire that. I believe that the records are out there somewhere and the case for their still being in existence is strong enough that a search is being renewed by Brandt Rosenbusch. Lets do everything possible to help him retrieve and preserve this important part of automotive history. He has told me that they are only to happy to share the records with any enthusiast that inquires and their track record certainly proves that ! SPREAD THE WORD AND LETS ALL HELP IN ANY WAY THAT WE CAN ! In this way we can give back, to the company, and the hobby, that has given us so much.
Kevin OUTSTANDING work thank you!
And THANK YOU too Brandt for ALL of your and your team's efforts over the past years and decades trying to preserve the history of Chrysler vehicles. That's why there is such a loyal following because of efforts like this. Smiley Smiley
Re: What happened to the missing late 60s production data? - 10/10/2006:35 AM
Nice to know there are people out there reading what I have said about this subject a number of years ago: I don't believe the "fire" story for one second. Yes, yes everyone, calm down, I know, Paranoid Grizzly is right again.
I'll state it AGAIN if there was a fire there would be a record of it within the Fire Department. A fire at Chrysler Corporation would have been headline news. No such evidence exists.
My final thought on this still remains the same: Chrysler Corp is not making any money on this, therefore they are just stringing enthusiasts along and will produce NOTHING. There absolutely has to be second copies (or maybe even 3 or 4) of the build records for legal reasons. Example, a JH23G0B000001 is used to kidnap Donald Trump and is ditched.........that car needs to be tracked down by VIN, license plate and registered Owner to solve the case.
I'm so done with Chryslers' games with the muscle era cars: I'll use that guy's email address alright: I'll get him signed up for youporn and ladies shoes sales from every store in the country.
Re: What happened to the missing late 60s production data? - 12/08/2004:38 AM
Not this old chestnut again! Folks, get a grip. There are a number of Detroit based employees familiar with this situation. The exact, car specific 68 and later IBM build cards were stored haphazardly in a rented warehouse in Hamtramck, near Dodge Main. There was a fire, and much if not all of these records were lost. Some stuff may have been salvaged from the ruins independently, but... this was the period when Chrysler almost went under. Survival was the priority, and details for cars built a decade or more prior was not a priority. About this time Dodge Main was closed and demolished. Saving paper didn't count. Something about alligators and draining a swamp. Plus in the 80's the neighborhood in question was not suitable for nighttime travel. Not a recipe for saving stuff. Sorry, that's the way it is. Better records did exist on total numbers of cars in a model line built with certain colors, options, etc., e.g., example 4.3% of 1969 Dodge Chargers were painted in XX paint color. This was used for product planning and parts forecast for years after and I personally have seen these records. The existing Chrysler archives are carefully stored in the old Highland Park trim plant. The Chrysler Museum cars are still intact and stored (mostly) in the old Viper - Prowler assembly plant on Connor Avenue, and some are currently getting a nice restoration. Remember the recent TV commercial of the Dodge brothers with the various old cars being raced between them? These are all Chrysler Historic Collection cars. Since attendance at the old Auburn Hills Museum was pretty sad (after an initial burst of interest) I doubt it will be reopened but all of the "stuff" is saved. BTW, the majority of the new corporations' cash flow and profits come from the NAFTA Chrysler operations. No one is stupid enough to mess too much with it. Leave the Q-Anon type theories for politics. If you doubt this, please get out to Detroit and talk to the many employee and retiree Mopar fanatics and get the real facts. Mark
Re: What happened to the missing late 60s production data? - 12/08/2004:43 AM
Oh, one more thing. The 2019 WPC Club National Meet was held in Detroit (Auburn Hills). Participants were treated to a tour of the Chrysler Historic archives in the Highland Park plant. The Connor plant was also on the agenda but was scrubbed due to schedule conflicts. The stuff does exist. Mark
Re: What happened to the missing late 60s production data? - 12/08/2005:14 AM
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The exact, car specific 68 and later IBM build cards were stored haphazardly in a rented warehouse in Hamtramck, near Dodge Main.
How were these "IBM" cards printed?
I thought that computer information was entered and that information was stored within the computer then a command was given to the computer to print stored/entered information. Not only IBM cards were needed to be printed but broadcast sheets to specific areas of the plant(s) (engine, transmission, body in white, upholstery, paint, axle plant, etc., etc.,) and all of the information was STORED in some kind of computer recognizable format such as magnetic tape. So what happened to the printed paper documentation from the stored computer information is only a small part of what was lost or missing, WHAT HAPPENED TO THE IBM COMPUTER STORED INFORMATION (tapes)??
BTW This is an actual photo of the computer room at Lynch Road Assembly Plant during the 60's and there is no paper documentation in sight. Edit: Sorry there's a printer on a shelf above the data entry person sitting at the desk .....looks like a broadcast sheet printer
Re: What happened to the missing late 60s production data? - 12/08/2004:52 PM
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WHAT HAPPENED TO THE IBM COMPUTER STORED INFORMATION (tapes)??
Who cares? Those old nine track IBM mag tapes could retain their data (or even be intact) for maybe 20 years if stored under ideal conditions. You might find some tapes, but there wont be any data on them. Mark
Re: What happened to the missing late 60s production data? - 12/08/2005:01 PM
Originally Posted by michiganhotrod1
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WHAT HAPPENED TO THE IBM COMPUTER STORED INFORMATION (tapes)??
Who cares? Those old nine track IBM mag tapes could retain their data (or even be intact) for maybe 20 years if stored under ideal conditions. You might find some tapes, but there wont be any data on them. Mark
Maybe, maybe not. I'll have to see the corpse before I'll agree it's dead.
Re: What happened to the missing late 60s production data? - 12/08/2005:28 PM
Originally Posted by michiganhotrod1
Quote
WHAT HAPPENED TO THE IBM COMPUTER STORED INFORMATION (tapes)??
Who cares? Those old nine track IBM mag tapes could retain their data (or even be intact) for maybe 20 years if stored under ideal conditions. You might find some tapes, but there wont be any data on them. Mark
Where does your "maybe 20 years" timeline come from for the life of magnetic tape? I have a couple of magnetic data tapes that have spent over 50 years in non ideal conditions and I can still retrieve all of the data and with 50 + year old data retrieval equipment..............they're called 8-Track tapes and here's the portable retrieval equipment in the dash of what I would like to find lost data on along with a '69 A12 RR and a '69 M-code Dart. I also have a couple of "floppy discs" (boxes full) that have Sony Mavica photos on them that the retrieval equipment that used to be so common is getting harder and harder to find,,,,,,,,,,,I'd bet that in 50+ years the data on them is still good too and someone can look at the photos taken at the W.P. Chrysler Museum of a nice A12 Road Runner
Re: What happened to the missing late 60s production data? - 12/08/2005:37 PM
Ancient IBM drive rescues Apollo moon data By Tom Jowitt November 12, 2008 12:00 PM ETAdd a comment.Techworld.com - Valuable mission data gathered by NASA's Apollo missions to the moon 40 years ago looks like it may be recovered, thanks to a donation of an ancient IBM tape drive by a Sydney computer society.
The Apollo 11, 12 and 14 missions in the late 1960s and early 1970s gathered valuable data on moon dust for the National Aeronautics and Space Administration using 'dust detectors' that were invented by Perth physicist Brian O'Brien, according to ABC News in Australia.
This information on moon dust was apparently beamed back to earth and recorded onto 173 data tapes, stored at both NASA and Sydney University.
O'Brien published preliminary findings on the data, but after a lack of interest from the scientific community, the tapes on moon dust were placed into storage in the 1970s.
But it now seems that moon dust is a very important environmental problem indeed for NASA, especially as the U.S. agency considers building a base on the moon.
As NASA quickly discovered, moon dust is extremely abrasive, and according to astronauts whose space suits and equipment quickly became covered in it, it smelled like spent gunpowder. NASA said that the dust would often scratch lenses or corrode seals.
Unfortunately, according to O'Brien, NASA 'misplaced' its moon-dust tapes before they could be archived.
Thankfully, the tapes stored at Sydney University were still available. However, what was not readily available was a IBM 729 Mark V tape drive needed to read the data.
The IBM 729 magnetic tape drive was used by IBM from the late 1950s through the mid-1960s. It used a half-inch magnetic tape that was up to 2,400 feet in length on a reel measuring up to 10.5 in. in diameter.
When O'Brien learned of the tape loss, he was contacted by an Australian data recovery firm, SpectrumData, which offered to try to get hold of the information.
SpectrumData subsequently moved the tapes into a climate-controlled room, and it even managed to locate a very rare 1960s IBM729 Mark 5 tape drive at the Australian Computer Museum Society, which has agreed to loan the company the drive so that the data can be recovered.
Unfortunately, it seems that the tape drive, which is the size of a household fridge, is in need of some attention in order to get it working again.
"The drives are extremely rare; we don't know of any others that are still operating," Guy Holmes, CEO of SpectrumData, was reported as saying by ABC News.
"It's going to have to be a custom job to get it working again," he said. "It's certainly not simple, there's a lot of circuitry in there, it's old, it's not as clean as it should be, and there's a lot of work to do."
Holmes said he hopes to get the tape drive working by January, and he believes it will then only take a week or so to pull the data off the old tape drives.
Re: What happened to the missing late 60s production data? - 12/08/2006:41 PM
I personally have seen a post on popular hot rodding website in nov- dec 2009 . the man that made the post claimed he saw a picture of my car in the mag. and thought it was his car because he knew the color was rare. he went on to tell that he worked for Chrysler corp. and was in charge of records. he stated in that on line post that he sold his car and that in the trunk were boxes of ibm /copys or the records for that years production. he also stated that those records showed only [7 r/t model] challengers were made in gy8. he knew this because he ordered his car while working for Chrysler. my point is , these type of records [ with color breakdown] did exist and this man has first hand facts about them. I have been trying to search for the blog......
Re: What happened to the missing late 60s production data? - 12/08/2007:21 PM
Timely post about old computer equipment - I was getting ready to throw my Mac 512 away.
Seriously though, I have one experience that is fact.
I obtained a copy of the IBM card on my 63 Maxwedge. I saw the dealer code and asked a lady in my department if she could somehow look for the dealer code to determine who it was.
She made contact with someone and they provided the dealer name. This happened in 2005 on a car that was then 42 years old.
My bet is a lot of this info is on a tape somewhere - it’s just a matter of knowing who to ask and getting them to look for it. But, only if the data was put on a disk or tape first, then used to print the IBM card.
Not sure where the data all started - i think back then the dealer sent his order to the Zone offices who then sent in those forms for vehicle orders. If there was a central vehicle scheduling group who communicated to the plants via card, the data may be setting somewhere.
Re: What happened to the missing late 60s production data? - 12/09/2002:47 AM
Originally Posted by Transman
My bet is a lot of this info is on a tape somewhere - it’s just a matter of knowing who to ask and getting them to look for it. But, only if the data was put on a disk or tape first, then used to print the IBM card.
Not sure where the data all started - i think back then the dealer sent his order to the Zone offices who then sent in those forms for vehicle orders. If there was a central vehicle scheduling group who communicated to the plants via card, the data may be setting somewhere.
I hope you don't think I am spouting off but I worked for Chrysler in Sales and Marketing for 25 years, later than the time in question but a lot of processes were similar. My late father also worked for IBM from the early 1950's so I have some knowledge of these machines since we used them at work and we shared notes. Dealers would send car orders to the Zone Office (if they ordered them, rember sales bank) and a zone clerk would transmit them to Detroit by teletype. The order input to mainframe was by IBM card; there was no direct input like today, plus if you screwed something up you fixed the card and didn't trash a mag tape. The central processor was in the basement of the CenterLine Mopar parts office for a long time, and data went to all of the needed places. At the end point a lot of stuff came out on teletype or IBM cards again, the readers are cheaper than a tape drive of the day. Most of us have seen an IBM card pick-ticket stapled to the odd NOS Mopar part box. The problem with "tape Somewhere" is that there is no "somewhere" there anymore. Highland Park offices, Dodge Main, St. Louis, Lynch Road, Los Angeles Assembly are all gone and bulldozed, and doing something else now. Remember, this was 50 years ago.
On a lighter note, here is a good video from the 1950's showing some of what went on in a plant; details changed but the general idea worked for years.
Re: What happened to the missing late 60s production data? - 12/09/2004:40 AM
Some questions I'm still confused or curious about.
1. What "model" years of information is/are "gone or lost"? 2. Was the info lost for all models (A, B, C, E) and from all assembly plants? 3. What happen to the Zone Office order info once it was sent (electronically?) to Detroit? 4. Was ALL of the information for all of assembly plants and Zone Offices stored in one location? 5. Did the fire, flood, etc., that destroyed those 4/5? model years of production information exactly on the last day of assembly or was there some carry over into the next model year's production? 6. If question 5. is that it happened mid year, later into the next model year is there anything that would indicate that, like some of the last assembly info for say '72 is available on none of the early '73 info is available? 7. With 5 model years of paper documentation for 5 or more assembly plants along with engine, transmission, axle plants etc. all being stored it must have been a huge fire that surely should have been reported in a Detroit newspaper? 8. What was the approximate date of the fire, flood etc., that it just happened to only destroy those 5 years of paper documentation? 9. One more how is Chrysler still able to print IBM cards today for model year cars and trucks before 1968 and after 1972 with the same basic IBM format?
Strange that between the model years of 1968 - 1972 not one piece of information/documentation survived? Wonder how the IRS would have taken that as an excuse if they were audited during the 7-year period?
Re: What happened to the missing late 60s production data? - 12/09/2002:35 PM
from what I remember, they simply were done with the buildings and the guy I speak of said he actually took some of those records with him when he left .he never talked about a fire. just old info that was left behind. a new system was in place and it was all obsolete . he said he left boxes of records in the trunk of a 71 6 pack challenger when it was sold in the late 70's early 80's. posted on popular hot rodding web site nov- dec 2009 . I have tried to search for the post...
Re: What happened to the missing late 60s production data? - 12/09/2008:21 PM
Michiganhotrod1 - forgot about teletype. Thanks for that.
As for buildings being gone, agreed, they are gone.
But the mainframe environments still exist. ODCIC, HPIMS, CLIMS, to name a few.
The young lady that helped me on the dealer code lookup mentioned she had warranty data from the 60’s and 70’s.
like I had mentioned earlier, the only way we will ever k ow if this “missing” data is archived at FCA is to get a shooter involved. Or a few of the right people at the lower levels that know how to look for things.
As for my comment about a tape somewhere, what I should have said if stored anywhere they are on disc.
Re: What happened to the missing late 60s production data? - 12/10/2009:20 PM
Originally Posted by A12
Some questions I'm still confused or curious about.
3. What happen to the Zone Office order info once it was sent (electronically?) to Detroit? 4. Was ALL of the information for all of assembly plants and Zone Offices stored in one location?
7. With 5 model years of paper documentation for 5 or more assembly plants along with engine, transmission, axle plants etc. all being stored it must have been a huge fire that surely should have been reported in a Detroit newspaper? 8. What was the approximate date of the fire, flood etc., that it just happened to only destroy those 5 years of paper documentation? 9. One more how is Chrysler still able to print IBM cards today for model year cars and trucks before 1968 and after 1972 with the same basic IBM format?
Mike
I don't have all the answers, but... I worked in a zone office. Except for the few co-located with a parts warehouse, these were rented office space with no storage. Almost nothing was saved, the focus of the Zones is on what you are selling today. The data that is missing is the vehicle specific build files, which tended to be saved to support activities like warranty claims and parts supply. Most other documents were trashed sooner. The pre 67 files that exist were converted to microfice, and survived; all you get is a simple copy of an IBM card. No one really knows for sure what happened to the rest. Remember, this was the era of the recession/ Chrysler bankruptcy/ crack epidemic/ last-one-in-Michigan-turn-out-the-lights. Run down inner city buildings burned daily, and only made the news if someone died. I find it amazing that anything survived at all. A final note. Detroit is filled with Mopar enthusiasts, working and retired, who would dearly love this information. Personally, I want a build card for my 71 'Cuda convertible, to see if it was built with billboard stripes; the second fender tag is missing. If the information was out there, someone here would have found it. Mark
Re: What happened to the missing late 60s production data? - 12/23/2004:46 AM
Not sure if Jeff Bangert from the TA/AAR registry is on here, but he went into this at length on the TA/AAR Facebook page a month or two back. In short, and I'm paraphrasing from memory from his post:
* There was no fire at Chrysler * The fire "myth" was perpetuated by those around / in Chrysler * Why? * Starting in 68 or 69 the sales orders had the buyers name, addy AND social security number attached to it. Thats the main reason why they won't release the records (the SS#) Plus they won't go through the trouble of redacting every single sales order to satisfy collectors today. Jeff knows a couple of people who have seen these records first hand (IIRC).
I'm just passing this info on and will try and locate the post stating this.
Re: What happened to the missing late 60s production data? - 12/23/2006:16 AM
Originally Posted by ricomondo
Not sure if Jeff Bangert from the TA/AAR registry is on here, but he went into this at length on the TA/AAR Facebook page a month or two back. In short, and I'm paraphrasing from memory from his post:
* There was no fire at Chrysler * The fire "myth" was perpetuated by those around / in Chrysler * Why? * Starting in 68 or 69 the sales orders had the buyers name, addy AND social security number attached to it. Thats the main reason why they won't release the records (the SS#) Plus they won't go through the trouble of redacting every single sales order to satisfy collectors today. Jeff knows a couple of people who have seen these records first hand (IIRC).
I'm just passing this info on and will try and locate the post stating this.
BEST ANSWER and heard this also just recently and to you and the other person I heard this story from.......................now let's see if we can organize a "Go Fund Me" or "Kickstarter" page to pay for a retired Chrysler employee to come in and redact all of the private information on some of the vehicles.......shoot I'll do it for a side job and a few dollars. You wouldn't need to redact every vehicle just maybe once every quarter for the logged in request for info on particular vehicles. Come on Chrysler let us know how much we need to raise to have someone redact the request for vehicle info once every quarter or even every six months?
Re: What happened to the missing late 60s production data? - 12/23/2002:48 PM
Originally Posted by ricomondo
* Starting in 68 or 69 the sales orders had the buyers name, addy AND social security number attached to it. Thats the main reason why they won't release the records (the SS#)
So why not making this clear statement (which is reasonable) and creating such a myth around a fire/flood? The part with the ss# could be easily blocked out btw. and Chrysler could make a nice business out of selling these records. ;-) Michiganhotrods version make more sense to me.
Re: What happened to the missing late 60s production data? - 12/23/2006:52 PM
Originally Posted by 1972CudaV21
Until there’s someone actual proof, I’ll believe the fire story😀
Not me, I just can't see how the entire production records for FOUR or FIVE MODEL YEARS of EVERY MODEL or hundreds of thousands of records from EVERY Chrysler, Dodge, and Plymouth assembly plant from multiply states were lost in a fire in one building in Detroit????
6bblgt how many cars were produced during the time between model years 1968 and 1971 or is that 1972? I'm guessing with one year having 84,000 '69 Road Runners the total count has to be close to or over ONE MILLION cars or more for that time period...................and not one record survived, how is that possible?
Me I'm going with one of two: The info retrieval equipment is no longer available or private information cannot be released or both, which makes way more sense than a single warehouse or dumpster fire in some old building in Detroit
Re: What happened to the missing late 60s production data? - 12/30/2004:20 AM
Go to the 6:00 - 8:00 mark in this old film from another manufacture and let me know if Chrysler did or didn't have a similar method of documentation and record keeping?
This is actually a good and interesting film from the period (1969) we're discussing and it surely shows that this wasn't the stone age for electronic record keeping. I just find it hard to believe that ALL of the records from ALL of the assembly plants for ALL of those years could ALL be lost in one old warehouse fire.
Re: What happened to the missing late 60s production data? - 12/30/2005:14 AM
The paper rolling off of the printer is probably about 15 minutes worth at one station of one 8-hour day/shift. Wonder how much paper it generated in one day for 5-years........again that must have been one heck of a fire.
Could be the only records that survived were the survey record documentation done by the pretty lady
Re: What happened to the missing late 60s production data? - 12/30/2005:22 AM
I think every manufacturer has a yarn about a fire.
I've been to the GM Heritage Center and the level of records kept is dependent on the brand, what was tossed over time, what was stolen over time, and what has been misplaced.
Ford stuff exists for 1967 and beyond, digitized from IBM cards by Kevin Marti:
Darryl Davis also has gone through records at Hamtramck to compile cross-ram, Max Wedge, and early Hemi cars. No more research is going to be done by him, and possibly no one else.
Re: What happened to the missing late 60s production data? - 01/02/2102:34 AM
Cool photos, but..... Probably nothing of that stuff lasted past the model year. We had big dumpsters at work to trash the no longer needed tractor paper reports and tapes. They were sent to a secure scrap agency (Iron Mountain was one) to be securely shredded. Otherwise we would have been swimming in the stuff. Mark
Re: What happened to the missing late 60s production data? - 02/15/2101:24 AM
Chrysler was an early innovator in using computers to aid processes. This is slightly off topic, but a fun video showing these systems in use in the mid 1950's.
So, if the paper files, which could be identified on sight as useful information didn't survive, do you think a bunch of mag tapes that look like Sanskrit carvings would do any better? And if saved, if they were piled in boxes in a leaky roofed warehouse for all these years, would they still be able to provide data? Try again. M
Re: What happened to the missing late 60s production data? - 02/15/2101:52 AM
Nowadays, this stuff would be gold to an owner of a rare muscle car and they’d pay Chrysler for the records. Since the demand is high, the records would have been found by now...Once again, Chrysler is going under a new name and owner (just like they have over the last several decades). With all the changes in ownership, I think the records would have been tossed if they still existed.
Re: What happened to the missing late 60s production data? - 02/15/2106:51 AM
Originally Posted by 1972CudaV21
I think the records would have been tossed if they still existed.
You and a lot of Chrysler fanatical Sheep really don't understand the Big Picture responsibilities a major corporation has to it's Regulators and the Government, do you?
No major corporation "burns" their records. They CAN'T. People would go to jail for doing so.
How do you think Blunder Motors tracked down every car with key lock/ignition problems that killed over a hundred people 14 years later? Because they KEPT RECORDS, not "tossed" them. The Basterds went BANKRUPT and those records were still kept.
Re: What happened to the missing late 60s production data? - 02/16/2112:10 AM
Originally Posted by A12
Go to the 6:00 - 8:00 mark in this old film from another manufacture and let me know if Chrysler did or didn't have a similar method of documentation and record keeping?
This is actually a good and interesting film from the period (1969) we're discussing and it surely shows that this wasn't the stone age for electronic record keeping. I just find it hard to believe that ALL of the records from ALL of the assembly plants for ALL of those years could ALL be lost in one old warehouse fire.
I knew i liked you the first time we talked. quit is not in us ! -if- you can find someone who knows how this was done , or actually did it , you can start there. if they are still alive ... someone knows where to find that which was kept. otherwise it will take someone inside that is in charge [ now ] of this type of information. i think some kind of data does exist somewhere...
Re: What happened to the missing late 60s production data? - 02/16/2101:24 AM
Originally Posted by Grizzly
Originally Posted by 1972CudaV21
I think the records would have been tossed if they still existed.
You and a lot of Chrysler fanatical Sheep really don't understand the Big Picture responsibilities a major corporation has to it's Regulators and the Government, do you?
No major corporation "burns" their records. They CAN'T. People would go to jail for doing so.
How do you think Blunder Motors tracked down every car with key lock/ignition problems that killed over a hundred people 14 years later? Because they KEPT RECORDS, not "tossed" them. The Basterds went BANKRUPT and those records were still kept.
End of discussion.
You’re right - it’s the end of discussion unless someone comes forward with some facts.
Re: What happened to the missing late 60s production data? - 02/16/2105:43 AM
Originally Posted by Grizzly
You and a lot of Chrysler fanatical Sheep really don't understand the Big Picture responsibilities a major corporation has to it's Regulators and the Government, do you?
The importance of regulators was not terribly high in the 1960s, and over time it has become even less important for cars that were built 50+ years ago.
On the other hand, considering Chrysler's brush with bankruptcy, its buyout of AMC, and its own buyout by several European companies, it would make sense that old production records were tossed.
I believe some nitty gritty are in the hands of collectors, and they are the best chance for enthusiasts to learn more about their cars. I don't think they'll be invoices or anything like that, but if they were sold in Canada there's probably a better chance something exists as I believe there's a law regarding maintaining records of production vehicles. This is the reason why GM of Canada has good records.
As such, your comparison with GM is not great because it involves contemporary production vehicles from a time when regulators had much more influence in the industry.
So, no, not end of discussion--talking about it is the first step in getting closer to an answer.
I should have re-read the entire thread again to find the outstanding efforts of 6PAKTOGOBEE 
if there was a fire there would be a record of it within the Fire Department. A fire at Chrysler Corporation would have been headline news. No such evidence exists.
.....looks like a broadcast sheet printer 
You wouldn't need to redact every vehicle just maybe once every quarter for the logged in request for info on particular vehicles. Come on Chrysler let us know how much we need to raise to have someone redact the request for vehicle info once every quarter or even every six months?
