Source for quality repro Air Grabber cleaner lid wing nut.

I'm looking for OE or exact repro for a 1971 383 air Grabber set up. have no idea what the wing nut looks like. What's the thread pitch for the piece of threaded rod connecting the carburetor to the cleaner lid? If it's 1/4-20, I'm looking for OE/ repro, if it's another pitch, I'll have to jury rig something because I'm using an Edlebrock 1407 carb but using the original Air Grabber baseplate so the rod has to fit through the brace that goes across the centre of the baseplate.

Give Frank Baldason a call, he has the most accurate stuff around. I think whatever you find it will fit the Edlebrock, even though a Holley was used from the factory.

Who's Frank Baldason and how do I reach him? Actually carter AVS was used from the factory but I get your meaning.

http://www.rogergibsonautorestoration.com/Frank/Frank-Badalson-Home/

I thought the 383 cars used a Holley and the 440 cars used a Carter?

Steve, thanks for the link. I left a message on his website. 1971 Roadrunners all used various Carter carbs except for the 440 + 6. That one used 3 different 2 bbl Holley carbs. The original factory carb on my car was the Carter AVS 6125S. Thanks

...and, I also should include Holley R-6193A and R-4735a were both used on 383 Roadrunners with "fresh Air Intake" systems. I guess that means the Air Grabber hood option.

and Holley R-6191A and R-4668A were both used on 383 Roadrunners with "heated air intake" systems. Not sure what that means unless they are talking about a hot air stove before the air cleaner.

I would call Frank tomorrow, he's really busy, so I don't know how a call back would work.

www.littledetroitrestorations.com has them in stock check out website.

ALL 1971 383 Road Runners had HOLLEY carbs when new!

Not according to the factory service manual.

The wing nuts can be purchased directly from AMK Products out of Winchester, VA. This is the place that provides the hardware to many of the vendors. They do have a $30 minimum order, but it does not take much to put together an order as they have so many pieces once you start to looking at their inventory.
If you are really wanting 100% correct wing nuts, you will need to find originals. The reproductions are close and most people do not know what to look for, but the originals do not have the radius that the reproductions have.

Understood. I've contacted a couple of vendors and they give the impression that they're too busy to talk which is good for them but not so good for me. I'm going to see if I can source the part locally from auto restoration garages that I'm familiar with around here. Most of the vendors on Ebay want an average of $36 US for shipping so it's not cost effective for me right now especially considering that we are talking about a $2.50 part. Also, I'm not really looking for anything to combine on an order. Thanks for your info. If I can't find a good looking wing nut, I'll defer the problem till later.

Beware that the Service manual doesn't tell you what came with what. Your broadcast sheet does. Do you have one?

It is HIGHLY UNLIKELY that your car came with a Carter.

No broadcast sheet was ever found with my car. The FSM does indicate what engines that came with what transmission was married up to a specific carb. All you have to know is what engine/tranny combo were available with your particular year/make/model and you will know what carburetor belongs on the car for a specific combo. That is on your fender tag. Broadcast sheets are nice to have but you don't need them to find that out. Various sources on the web suggest that 1971 Roadrunners had more Carters in them than Holleys and the exceptions to that rule I've already mentioned in this thread. My car originally came with a Carter AVS because it came standard with a 383 and 727 auto trans. The FSM backs that up. The Air Grabber hood though, is a completely different story.

People with a lot of knowledge and experience decoding these cars are trying to help you here. The typical number you see coded on the broadcast sheet for a 383 4bbl auto 71 runner without an air grabber is 30. This translates to a Holley carb part number R4668. Typical sheet number for a 383 4bbl auto with air grabber is 42, also a Holley carb.

all 1971 E & B-body 383 4bbl engines are orange painted 383HP & they all came with HOLLEY carbs

regardless of what you are comprehending from the service manual & your worrying about the correct $2.50 wingnut?

Can't help you, chum if you don't believe what I'm telling you. Holley R4668 carbs were put on Roadrunners with heated air intakes like I mentioned in a previous post. Mine never came with that option so I got the Carter AVS. Typical numbers found on broadcast sheets are fine for statistical purposes but they do not describe the rules for putting which carb on which car. FSM does.

according to the famous little white book written by the original "GURU" to whom you all worship the gentleman seems to be correct about his carburetor #6125 and its listed in the 1971 parts manual. huh? fancy that.

FOR THE RECORD; the broadcast sheet is information about the particular car or "VIN", not "all " 1971's. however the parts manual lists parts that were available with the motor body style it was optioned or coded for.

OK let's see if this makes sense to you.

The FSM is a service manual. It's where you go to find out how to repair something or what the specs or settings are for something. It does not tell you what goes on what. For that they have a Parts Manual.

If you go to the parts manual. It's section 14-30-0. It shows that the Carter is only used on C Bodies. So yes there is a 383 AT Carter in 71 but it was never used in your application. It was used in the 330HP C body application.

Yes it's listed for a C body application.

Maybe you should do your own research.

..

Actually the broadcast sheet had nothing to do with statistics, it told the line workers what actual part to install on the car.

But I've only been following, researching, cataloguing and collecting information about 71 Plymouth B bodies specifically for about 25 years now. You're probably right and I'll stop incorrectly trying to help you.

My carb is listed in the link that you provided for the whole world to see now. Thanks for providing the proof, Bud. It's listed in model P,D,C (Plymouth, Dodge, Chrysler,) and Reference No. 114 and service carb # 3512844. If you open your eyes, you will see it. If not, I'll scan my chassis service manual when I get home later tonight that tells you why that carb is correct for my car.

Just who is Chum, and Bud? Now that your car has an Air Grabber the AVS is not correct for your car.

The Air Grabber is not correct for my car. The Carter AVS always was. It's what was on the car when I bought it. Another spare one was in the trunk. Why would the previous owner keep on buying incorrect carbs for his former car? Now that I have an Edlebrock 1407, nobody should care yet everyone on Moparts dot com wants to rag on this subject. What is up?

ut oh looks like someone missed their bus again.

I proved the point but you failed to understand.

The P listed is for Fury (a Plymouth)

The letters listed are for the model and represent the first digit or the VIN. If you are a RR then the code would be R. So if you look at the listing for a 383 4 barrel automatic in an R model (that would include a Road Runner) it lists a Holley

Sincerely
Bud

The letters listed are for the car line and not just the model as is explained in your very own parts manual. P is Plymouth D is Dodge and C is Chrysler. This means all 383 4 barrel cars under that car line are subject to reference No.114. Now if only someone can decipher reference note 114 we would have the answer. Yes, I know that there is a reference to 2 Holley equipped Roadrunners up above with and without fresh air. Those are not mine because they have different reference numbers. If no one can answer that question about reference 114, I'll scan my chassis manual under the section about Carter AVS and Holley 4193A where it explains why certain cars came with Holleys and others with Carters.

The P, D and C are the first digit of the VIN. It's in the beginning of the Parts Manual.

It's simple. If you don't want to believe it then no one on here can help you.

The question is does your car follow under R or P? The people in the know will say R.

These are the only 2 pieces of general information that you need to know to understand which 1971 Plymouth, Chrysler and Imperial that had 383 engines had which carburetors. It applies to all models across the board. Mine had the Carter AVS 6125S. I'm not the one asking for help with this. I never did. I'm the one who is trying to help you.

And we are trying to stop you from spreading bad information. This says nothing about the exact application. The PARTS MANUAL does.

The Carter was used on C body 383 engines. PERIOD!

So When I see my friend with the 1971 Hemi Roadrunner, I'll be sure to mention that he should chuck his twin Carter AFBs in the garbage and replace them with Holleys just like you and the other misinformed individuals are suggesting right? No problem. Both the parts manual and the chassis manual are excellent resources of information. It takes no skill to read a chassis manual but certain training to read a parts manual. I am guessing that you simply don't have that training.

reading this thread gives me a headache..

if you read the link he posted
it says the carter was on the standard 383 and 440 engines
what about the hp 383 and 440s??

I thought we were discussing 383 4 barrels and whether they had a Carter AVS or a Holley.

Sorry I and others tried to educate you. Won't happen again .

I'm not trying to offend but come on man these guys are trying to help you. They have a lot of experience, not just stuff they learned from the Year One catalog. As far as your original question, just look around at hardware stores and find some stamped wing nuts and I doubt anyone will ever know otherwise.

Yea... wrong carb will stand out ...wing nut... not so much

All this over a wing nut.

The orig poster is a wingnut

Originally we were, but others chimed in suggesting that only Holleys were installed on 1971 Roadrunners which was just plain wrong among so many other things people have been saying including you. Ditto and back at you.

As mentioned here by several, the correct information is the car line code in factory parts manuals for a Road Runners is R. Car line code for Plymouth C-bodies is P. As the Factory Parts manual, clearly states, all ’71 383HPs (335hp), the standard motor for Road Runner, left the factory with a list number variant of the Holley 4160 series carb. Backed up here by direct significant dealer experience that dates to the time.

72, I know you're trying to help. I recognize that. But you and others are making the same mistake because carburetors were not chosen for specific models. They were chosen for specific engine and transmission combinations. Look at other sources on the web like:

http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=55

They list my 383 with automatic transmission correctly as having a 4bbl Carter AVS. Even lists the correct number for the AVS. This is correct. If you are dead set on using a parts manual, which is ok but shouldn't be used by itself, go back to the previous posts by Morty et al.. and refer back to the P,C, and D car line. That's the criteria on which my carb was chosen. All Plymouth all Dodge and all Chrysler lines with no conditions which would alter the selection to have a Holley based on heated air or fresh air. If you go to that line, it mentions that the standard 4 bbl carb used was a Carter AVS under reference 114. That's my carb!!

At the very least, look around the web at various sites, you'll end up seeing the same thing I'm seeing. After all this stuff we're discussing isn't classified or top secret. It's common knowledge. The problem you and everyone else on here are having is with interpretation.

This thread is supposed to be about wing nut sources so before I go on, I just want to thank those who have offered up vendor sources for the original subject of this post. Thank you for your links.

You don't see a problem with your link not listing one single Holley four barrel for 1971?

Yet Holley 4 barrels are in the FSM that YOU quoted!

Yet they are listed in the Factory Parts Manual.

Yet they are listed on Broadcast sheets

Wow.

I know '71 Road Runners are often perceived to be "fat , bloated, pigs",
but this is the first I've seen them confused with a C-body

yeah wow.

Not a mistake here, just the facts, “were chosen for specific engine and transmission combinations” correct, the 335 horse power 383HP used in B & E-bodies in ’70 & 71 came from factory with Holley 4160s. Transmission, N96, non-N96 variants identified by list numbers. The 383 4bbl engine installed into C-bodies had Carter AVS’s, as the factory replacement parts catalogs from the time clearly indicates. The mymopar.com listing you linked does not show any Holley 4-barrel carbs for ’70-71 383 HPs, that is simply not accurate. I suggest you look at other sources for more accurate info that should include the already referenced factory documents/manuals for correct info. The use of Holley 4160s on this ’71 b-body 383HP application has been well documented over the years, a simple search on this forum alone will result with numerus past discussions on this topic, dating back years.
As for the carline codes, fact is, P, D, C, &Y carline codes all refer to c-bodies only period. Not only have I owned and dealer serviced these cars dating back to when they were new, also did a stint in various parts departments selling replacement parts at dealers, trained and paid to correctly interpret the factory parts catalogs. Your repeated interpretation of these codes is flat out wrong.
Wing nut? Another vote here for AMK Products, closest I’ve found to originally used hardware.

Yes it's listed for a C body application.

Maybe you should do your own research.



Try the guy who posted the drivel above. I've never confused them for C bodies.

Well Dan you know ALL 383s are the same.

They never built a different 383 for an A body vs a B body vs a C body according to LR because he found a incomplete carb list on a website

LOL

Had an AVS on the car and one in the trunk.... must be original...

geez

I cannot argue with you on the meaning of the P,D,C and Y codes because I have not been trained in using this manual. I was simply using the glossary that explains what these abbreviations mean using the photo that was posted in this forum by another user. In this photo, there was no mention of C bodies at all. The simple fact is that numerous sites list my carburetor as being correct and I do happen to remember what I pulled out of that car many years ago. The intake on that car was untouched. My engine was "not" the 335 HP engine that was available in 1970. It was the 300 HP engine for 71. This is the correct carb. Try the Hemmings dot com site under the Carter identification number page. Have no access right now. It will list both Carters and Holleys for Chrysler and Marine all years under 1971. Tons of info. In only a select few of those, will you actually see models of cars like Challenger, GTX, Cuda R/R mentioned that had special Holley carbs selected. All accurate, I'd think and it's an expansive list and a good one.

what is this "research" thing you mention?

1971

383 manual - E & B-body
orange HP engine
---------- Holley R4667A ---------- part number 3512 848 on b'cast 48
383 manual - E & B-body - with "fresh air" (N96).
orange HP engine
---------- Holley R4734A ---------- part number 3512 849 on b'cast 49

***** some sources show the following manual trans carbs with the same part numbers (early/late/replacements) *****

383 manual - E & B-body
orange HP engine
---------- Holley R6191A ---------- part number 3512 848 on b'cast 48
383 manual - E & B-body - with "fresh air" (N96).
orange HP engine
---------- Holley R6193A ---------- part number 3512 849 on b'cast 49

383 automatic - C-body
blue engine
---------- Carter 6125S ---------- part number 3512 844 on b'cast 44

383 automatic - E & B-body
orange HP engine
---------- Holley R4668A ---------- part number 3512 830 on b'cast 30
383 automatic - E & B-body - with "fresh air" (N96).
orange HP engine
---------- Holley R4735A ---------- part number 3512 842 on b'cast 42

& yes, you either have a Road Runner with:
an "AIR GRABBER" N96 fresh air hood
or
heated air intake ("heat stove")

Well I don’t need “try” any third-party information sources to verify or rebut my own knowledge and experience on this subject, I’m clear on these facts. Not sure why you discount the factory documentation on this matter so easily, let alone the responses from many other experienced posters here on this current thread. I only mentioned model year ‘70 because it was the first year Holleys were used on the B&E body 383HP application in question, carb model uses between ‘70 and ’71 are very similar. Both years B-bodies with a 383HP, fresh-air or not, manual or auto, left the factory with Holley 4160s.
If you base your position on having an AVS being on your car when you bought it and another in the trunk, consider this. I have personally performed many factory correct and sponsored Holley to AVS conversions back in the day at dealers. Generally, OE Holley versions from the day had a poor maintenance reputation, prone to fuel leaks and in some cases engine fires. Chrysler parts released retrofit kits to the dealers back then for various engine combinations, included correct fuel lines, bracketry, and hardware. Many Holleys were swapped out, as warranty policy in some cases, in the first year or two.

What does it matter, you don't have a Carter carb on the car now, and the car didn't come with an Air Grabber. The Air Grabber alone tells you that it should have a Holly.

a closed mind can be a very lonely place...
does anyone have a advil??

Instead of an Advil How about a brand new post? One started by me with a question. What if the question is:

is there anyone in the world with a 1971 Roadrunner, 383 with automatic transmission that came factory equipped with a Carter AVS carburator (Any model). If so can you explain, why you think it is original to the car.

if someone responds yes and has a build sheet, which I don't. Would that do it? Something tells me you people still wouldn't believe it.

You think you are the first guy to make this mistake? And not the last.

i really want to believe you but
if you go back to my last post on this thread
i asked a very simple easy peasy question that i got immediately from reading your link
that you provided that you say proves your claim.

my question was ignored
it might give you a clue towards the correct answer

and why i said i want to believe you
is my mind is wide open as i'm far from any expert
but so far all you have provided is opinion..

yes, it's all opinion. except for the links and websites that I've referred to and oh yes, the 2 pics of the factory service manual. Those aren't my opinion.

your link said a carter came on STANDARD 383 and 440 engines
when did a road runner EVER get a STANDARD engine???
every last one i have ever seen had a hp engine...
you link does not add up...
that is not opinion
that is reading and understanding english..
i need 2 advil's now

More proof taken from the R/R GTX data/price guide. The 383 referenced is the 300HP 1971 engine that came standard on every Roadrunner that year. The 440 is next to it just for laughs. can anyone recall a member of the 1971 Satellite family that had a 300 HP 383? no mention of a 4 BBL Holley but that's OK it's just "incomplete" right? just like the factory parts manual. Is that an opinion?

So we believe these 3rd party resto books? Why did they need to print the 2nd edition revised and updated version? Because they started fixing the misinformation in the first edition.

Why not use the book that the car manufacturer printed, AKA the Chrysler Corporarion parts book?

But why confuse this issue with the facts.

Just plain old stubborn he will never get it.

Those books are junk....

Do you need another thread to convince you....??

You have a non original AG set up...so who cares...am sure car is awesome... but NOT original...

What kills me is Air Grabber is not correct...and you worried about a wing nut...

Why do you say, I'm worried?.... I don't get it. I just would like to have one because the one that I do have looks terrible. Why would that translate to worry?

I was thinking some more about what 2 other posters suggested about the heated air intake option on '71 Roadrunners. How would I know if I had heated air in order to be deserving of an exalted Holley carburetor? Would the manifolds be different in any way?

If I didn't have the heated air option, would the air cleaner be 1 or 2 snorkel and not have a drop tube to the stove? and would the manifold omit the mounts for the hot air stove?

“Heated air intake” was never an option in ’71, standard on all engines with one exception, when ordered with the optional “Fresh Air, N96, Air Grabber”. You had one or the other. The driver’s side exhaust manifolds were the same, with mounting points cast for the heat stove. Stove, and all components relating to heated air, was omitted when ordered with N96. Dual snorkel air cleaner, with heated air provisions, on the ’71 383HP, again with only one exception-N96.

Thanks. Things are finely starting to make a bit of sense now because I know that my VIN doesn't mention the N96 so it's doubtful the AG system came with the car. But the exhaust manifolds shows signs that a stove was mounted to it. If you're saying that heated air was standard on all except the N96 cars, it's looking very likely that my car had heated air. One other follow up question. What were they doing in 1970 with all the 383 Roadrunners......we're they putting nothing but Holleys in them or does it go by either SPD or engine/tranny combo?

The Air Grabber/ N 96 will not be on the VIN tag or door decal, only two places will show it, the fender tag, and the broadcast sheet.

I owned a 70 Superbee with 383 N96 option. That had a Carter, unless it was changed out before I got it. I purchased it in 1973.

since you asked ALL 1970 383 Road Runners have HOLLEY carburetors! but since the much simplified '71 383HP 4bbl vs 383 4bbl is causing & headaches - the '70 list will blow your mind

1970

383 manual - E & B-body - with ECS (N95)
orange HP engine 335hp
---------- Holley R4217-A ---------- part number 3418 537 on b'cast 37
383 manual - E & B-body - w/o ECS
orange HP engine 335hp engine on b'cast 084 with A/C & 087
---------- Holley R4367-A ---------- part number 3418 536 on b'cast 36
383 manual - E & B-body - w/o ECS & with "fresh air" (N96).
orange HP engine 335hp
---------- Holley R4736-1A ---------- part number 3512 964 on b'cast 64
383 manual - E & B-body - with ECS (N95) & with "fresh air" (N96).
orange HP engine 335hp
---------- Holley R4738-1A ---------- part number 3512 974 on b'cast 74

383 automatic - E, C & B-body - w/o A/C & w/o ECS
blue engine 330hp
---------- Carter 4736S ---------- part number 3418 538 on b'cast 38
383 automatic - E, C & B-body - with A/C (H51) & w/o ECS
blue engine 330hp
---------- Carter 4732S ---------- part number 3418 540 on b'cast 40
383 automatic - E, C & B-body - with ECS (N95)
blue engine 330hp
---------- Carter 4734S ---------- part number 3418 541 on b'cast 41

383 automatic - E & B-body - w/o A/C & w/o ECS
orange HP engine 335hp engine on b'cast 088
---------- Holley R4368-A ---------- part number 3418 542 on b'cast 42
383 automatic - E & B-body - w/o A/C & with "fresh air" (N96).
orange HP engine 335hp engine on b'cast 088
---------- Holley R4737-1A ---------- part number 3512 965 on b'cast 65
383 automatic - E & B-body - with ECS (N95)
orange HP engine 335hp
---------- Holley R4218-A ---------- part number 3418 543 on b'cast 43
383 automatic - E & B-body - with A/C (H51) & w/o ECS
orange HP engine 335hp engine on b'cast 089
---------- Holley R4369-A ---------- part number 3418 562 on b'cast 62
383 automatic - E & B-body - with ECS (N95) & with "fresh air" (N96).
orange HP engine 335hp
---------- Holley R4739-1A ---------- part number 3512 975 on b'cast 75

Well, it's not on the fender tag.

Looks good.

If your car did not have N96 it would have a dual snorkel 71 only air cleaner with a stove pipe attached to the drivers side exhaust manifold.

By the way as someone already stated none of the repop wing nuts are correct. If you want an original correct wing nut for your incorrect carb you gotta get one from a real original car.

(says one of the original "beat the dead horse until it is gone" posters of the infamous "wing nut" thread here on Moparts)

I still have several original 6 pak/6bbl wing nuts including a date coded restored set of carbs for a 69 1/2 4 speed car.

Give it up. You are supposed to have a Holley. Just for ghits and siggles, what is the date code and part number on your "original" carter.

this could turn bad real quickly now. I was going to ask that question but didn't want to end this beautiful thread before 8 pages of head pounding nonsense.

Yep, That's what it would have looked like for sure.

i'm happy that you still have your original 6 pak/6bbl wing nuts with your vintage carbs. You must be very proud. I'd be perfectly willing to give you the date codes of the 2 Carter AVSs that I had but no longer do because they were sold off at least 15 years ago and yes, i do recognize that, had I kept them, there would not have been such an animated discussion here on Moparts dot com because the answer would be on those dates.

Those carbs would have most likely would have had 70/71 dates. All it would have proved is that they were made back then for what ever Lo-Performance C Body 383 they went on.

So why don't we put this thing to rest?

Ever take a statistics class?

The possibilities of dates on those 2 carbs would have been early, right on, late, or built several years after 1971. All means nothing because they never put a 6125 AVS on a RR. But there were C-body 383 4 bbl cars built the same day your car was and the carb date would be right.

You see how it all goes full circle?

It's not on the fender tag cause the car didn't come with it.

i think he insists its a Carter because he is cheap
and they cost less then 1/2 as much as a correct Holly does!

11 pages... and no original carb...no original AG set up...and no original wing nut...

OMG.... so much time I will never get back... LOL

when i decided to add air grabber on to my 71
i wanted it to be all original from the intake up
and i bought a 6193 holley to start
whats funny is i have collected every last part
execpt for the carb stud and wingnut

My 70 B-Body is Holley equipped - does that help ?

Mine too

LOL - I have 2 B bodies and 3 E bodies that are all Holley equipped - there is 15 Holleys between them

Wing nut....

Holy Crap.

Right now I'm thinking those carbs would have likely had a slightly later date. It would have proved that the carb was not original to the car. If so, I would have known that something was wrong back then. But that never happened and so this continues. But answers are starting to filter in.

Nay nay. If built several years after, it definitely would have meant something.

Yep, I've always said that.

I bought the car as is. Someone else added the AG. It wasn't my decision to make. Folks welcome to Facebook.