Speaking of VIN and order numbers...

There is a 71 Duster 340 for sale on ebay. This car I have been aware of for years and the vin is only six digits less than mine. The order numbers are pretty far apart. Both have a SPD of 709, and are late build. VINS are 452494, 452488.
The order number on my 452494 is 188599. The order number on
452488 is 133612. That is 54,987 cars ordered with such a close Vin number. Does this make sense?

Dealer Zone Reps handed out the order pads that were pre-printed with VON (Vehicle Order Numbers) on them. The pads would be consecutively numbered so if someone ordered a car from the same dealer around the same time of year then the numbers could be really close. Different dealers had different numbers and went thorough pads (sold cars) at a different rate so the numbers can be fairly far off. The later in the production year, the more the VON could be off as dealers use up their pads to order cars at different rates.

"Does this make sense?"

188599
133612

Nope. I think those 3's are supposed to be 8's.

Do you have a link to the ad? *Edit* Found it. Stand by my comment above.

The pads at each dealership were not always sequential from one pad series to the next, in fact several pads were in use at large dealerships on the same days.

Okay Barry and Cody, how can any two cars with close VINs and close VONs come from two seperate dealerships on opposite sides of the country?

Y16 cars, ordered in house & shipped out to wherever.

Most AAR Cudas are great examples of this.

There are also cases of Y14 cars ordered for lot stock & then marked 'not received', they went to a different dealership by mistake.

I would agree you if the VON was say 171420 for example.




Whoever stamped the tag at the factory mistakenly used a "3" instead of an "8".

188599 0709 452494
188612 0709 452498


Just my opinion. I go through other peoples' numbers and spreadsheets all the time at work and this happens. Not often, but it does happen.

Looking at the tag in the auction, it may be 452498

but I do not see an issue with the 33 in the von vs. the 88.

Thanks! Even better, total sequence to how I see it. Only a 3 to 4 number spread now.

Oh, just admit it Barry, I'm right.

I tried to make the tag numbers bigger. The Sassy Grass one is mine and I can assure you the VIN is 452494/Order 188599.

Does the sequential VIN mean that my car and the yellow Duster were manufactured only a few cars apart?

Nope. They were built out of of VIN order all the time, even up to over 30,000 VIN numbers apart.

Higher VINs built before lower VINs & vise-versa.

You see a lot of this with the Mr. Norms 1971 Challenger orders. You would think with a Von and a Vin would be close on a vehicle ordered one after the other but many things happen at a Production Plant. Mr. Norms can not get all the Challengers build in the first couple of months of production and you can not build one Hemi Challenger after another without over loading the line. Chrysler needed to get Challengers all over North American to the Dealers so people can see them in person so every Dealer must get his chance at ordering. Order books were be passed out at busy dealerships and they would run more than one order book at a time creating big gaps between VONs. I have seen Vons one behind the other being built months apart and the same with some VINs. You almost have to be there to know why but there are usual answers that deal with builds that would answer these questions. It nice that people like Barry have taken the time to figure a lot of this out and to make this clear to the mopar public. This is one reason why people should send your 1970 Hamt. build information to Barry Washington.

Since I have seen all of the unclaimed Mr. Norms Challenger T/As files, I can expand on that some.

Al Smith was the salesman that ordered every T/A they did not get in a dealer trade with Aurora Dodge.

Al was using order pads with 4 different number prefixes - on the same days at times.

But isn't the first three digits of the VON an indicator of the dealership?

Nope. Not possible based on everything I have seen.

I agree with Barry sheets were given out by Chrysler and not all lets say the 012xxx Vons went to one Dealer. There is another loop hole that comes around once in a while and this is when a Dodge is sold by a Plymouth Dealership. I know of two Dodges a Challenger and a Charger both are 1971s and both Dodges were sold at Raceway Plymouth Chrysler in Rexdale, Ontario, Canada. So those two VONs should of been for Plymouths not Dodges, but a sale is a sale.

Another wrench in the VON prefix theory, lets pick on a 1970 Dodge dealer;

IF the VON letter prefix had a dealer code written in & say it was 00 prefix then;

Chrysler would have to supply order form pads for;

The Dodge Dart

The Dodge Challenger

The Dodge Charger

The Dodge Polara

The Dodge Trucks

Etc.

All starting with 00

Which has not happened that I have ever seen by looking at full sales records from dealerships so far.

Interesting.

What is the purpose of having the VON on the fender tag?

The VON came first (from the order blank)

As the order forms were filled out & sent to Chrysler, they would assign a VIN to that VON.

So, by having the VON on the fender tag, broadcast sheets, window sticker, consumer information sheets, etc., it tied everything back to the original order.

So is there a record of what books are issued to each dealer?

Vehicle Order Number is generates via the sale. Chrysler takes this Vehicle Order Number and assigns a VIN to the Vehicle. When the car is going to be built the production plant assigns a Sequences number to this car. All three numbers can be found on the broadcast sheet.

I do not think much information on what dealers got what VONs is still around.That was 1970 46 years ago. Your lucky if any Dealers kept any information on their sales. Mr Norms is the exception, they were the best at keeping information.

Only if the actual dealerships records still exist & have been reported & or visited & noted.

This is why I keep telling people to send there information on their cars to Barry so he can amass as much information as possible to come up with some conclusions on how this was all done back in 1970 or 1971. Does not matter if you have a Slant Six or Hemi E Body it all gets put into the site information and is used to help understand Chryslers. To most of us that collect information, we spend a lot of time on this kind of stuff. Barry has amassed plenty and has taken him years to make his web site for the Hamtramck Reg. You can spend hours and hours looking through his site.There are a lot of registries like the A12 Reg., E Body Convertible Registry and like the one I work on the 1971 Hemi E Body Hardtops. All this information needs to be amassed for future reference so dont be afraid to share.

Here is Barrys site take a look.




http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/

Not sure if FoMoCo Marti Reports would help a bit? An example visually could help?

Notice in the orange box there's dates like when a car was ordered, delivered, etc. Perhaps applying Mopar terminology to the respective entries here may make VIN, VON, etc. easier to understand?

I am sure that data like the Ford Data did exist at Chrysler up to a certain date. If Chrysler did not get into such a mess in the 70s and 80s if might be still around. Some of Chrysler Data is around in various sales forms but to have information on a specific build or Vehicle would so nice for a future owner of a car. Someone looking at a Vehicle for sale, an Example 1970 Hemi Cuda to know if the car was a real ordered hemi cuda or something someone created to make money out off knowing to have an R Code in the VIN plate and FT. To know options on cars for people that have no information such as Fender Tag or Broadcast Sheet or Order sheet. Would make the Mopar world much clearer if information like Diego posted about the Ford build existed with Mopar. We all have been looking for the Holy Grail of Mopar Information for years.

I've sent all the info in my possession to Barry