Original 70- 71 Hemi car engine casting dates,,,,

Posted By: HPMike

Original 70- 71 Hemi car engine casting dates,,,, - 03/29/15 03:03 AM

Ok....

So I have seen a fair share of original hemi blocks come through my hands...And I always seem somewhat confused on the 71's....seems like all of the ones I have seen that are known to be original have had 69 cast blocks in them ...

I am in the process of restoring/rebuilding the engine and trans for a known #s 71 hemicuda...The block has a casting date of 11/68..The VIN stamp looks 1000% legit...I dont have the car so I dont know the SPD, but the vin sequence is in the 4's...so its a late production...Later than any Ive ever seen, yet this one has an earlier cast block..

My guess is that because production fell so sharply and the unit count was so small, that they just used what was around rather than the typical "first in and first out" scenario...So anything is possible??

Thoughts?

MB

Posted By: 1970A13

Re: Original 70- 71 Hemi car engine casting dates,,,, - 03/29/15 03:39 AM

My thought is look at the date by the starter flange,if it is to far out it is not the org motor!but you know that from looking at all the hemi cars you have seen in the past!

Posted By: HPMike

Re: Original 70- 71 Hemi car engine casting dates,,,, - 03/29/15 04:03 AM

Quote:

My thought is look at the date by the starter flange,if it is to far out it is not the org motor!but you know that from looking at all the hemi cars you have seen in the past!

Sure..while I didn't state it, the point of the thread isn't whether they are wrong or not..we are making that assumption that the assembly date jives..To be honest, as a lot of others who have seen a lot of these parts, ive gotten pretty good at determining whether the vin pad has been monkeyed with or not...

MB

Posted By: 1971 Gran Coupe

Re: Original 70- 71 Hemi car engine casting dates,,,, - 03/29/15 08:56 AM

MATS is happening this weekend and a lot of the Hemi guys are there. I remember reading awhile back that the factory did a large run on them around 68/69 and they were stockpiled for the upcoming years. There may have been another run later. Hopefully some of the Hemi guys will chime in.

Posted By: hemi71x

Re: Original 70- 71 Hemi car engine casting dates,,,, - 03/29/15 04:36 PM

I owned a 71 Hemi GTX for 28 years, with the original engine, that it was born with.
Castig date on the block is 1 19 70, if that's of any help to you.

Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: Original 70- 71 Hemi car engine casting dates,,,, - 03/29/15 04:54 PM

I just sold a 70 Hemi (70 Vin) with a 6/68 casting date. I have another 70 Vin'd Hemi with a 69 casting date, and have seen numorous 70-71 Vin'd blocks with 68-70 casting dates. They were cast in quatities and used from inventory randomly.

Posted By: HPMike

Re: Original 70- 71 Hemi car engine casting dates,,,, - 03/29/15 05:13 PM

Quote:

I just sold a 70 Hemi (70 Vin) with a 6/68 casting date. I have another 70 Vin'd Hemi with a 69 casting date, and have seen numorous 70-71 Vin'd blocks with 68-70 casting dates. They were cast in quatities and used from inventory randomly.

I agree with this....I guess the "used from inventory randomly" is kind of a head scratcher....Like how can the 71 GTX that the previous poster(which I can absolutely believe) have a 70 motor, my #s 71 Challenger have a 69 cast, and this late prod 71 Cuda (which I am sure is right)..have a late 68? How were they pulling/allocating them?

Posted By: VCODE

Re: Original 70- 71 Hemi car engine casting dates,,,, - 03/29/15 05:23 PM

Hey Mike,
Worked at the dealers back in the 70's
heard lots of stories about some drinking and smoking going on at the factory. Saw some new cars that would look like it also

Bob

Posted By: hemicar1971

Re: Original 70- 71 Hemi car engine casting dates,,,, - 03/29/15 05:30 PM

Mike if that block did not have a casting date such as you posted I would be looking into it a little harder. Likely the other number on the casting date is also an 11.

Posted By: swapman

Re: Original 70- 71 Hemi car engine casting dates,,,, - 03/30/15 04:37 AM

Quote:

heard lots of stories about some drinking and smoking going on at the factory.

Now who went and told you that? We only drank coffee and smoked Camels.

Posted By: hemicar1971

Re: Original 70- 71 Hemi car engine casting dates,,,, - 03/30/15 05:27 AM

Swapman and I being auto workers, if we drank and smoked as much as everyone says Auto workers do we would of never made it to the 30 year mark. Sure in every work place there are the abusers but you can not put us all in that picture. Now we don't mind having a brown pop when we go to Carlisle or the Mopar Nationals were just like very one else.

Posted By: His and Her 69's

Re: Original 70- 71 Hemi car engine casting dates,,,, - 03/30/15 09:09 AM

I have a 69 dated 440 block with a 71 date on the top pad.
Just some info and I know it isn't any hemi data.
David

Posted By: shakerjoe

Re: Original 70- 71 Hemi car engine casting dates,,,, - 03/30/15 03:02 PM

like Dave's post above Mike, while my 'cuda isn't a hemi, my #'s match 440 was cast 07/31/69, top pad stamp is G 440 1 8 HP - and the G is stamped over a faint F, and my 'cuda is a 1B4xxxxx vin built 05/26/71 - when I spoke to GG about this, he told me the same as was mentioned above, they just grabbed whatever was available to get them off the line, nobody thinking about 40 years later and casting dates - I'd think could be more norm with a hemi due the less amount to choose from as Chrysler was winding down production of HP stuff and there was less to choose from - at least from the hemi blocks?

Posted By: hemicar1971

Re: Original 70- 71 Hemi car engine casting dates,,,, - 03/30/15 04:35 PM

It all comes down to the way production was done back in the day. There are other posts on moparts about this. There was very little FIFO back when our cars were built. FIFO meaning is first in first out. Back in the day these block were stored in one location and the builder worker would just get the first block in line and he would not care if there was older casting date on a block. So motors get build until the last block was there and the last blocks were from a previous time and that might of been back as far as 11-11-68 that my original Hemi motor in my June 1971 Challenger has. My 1971 Hemi Cuda November 1970 built has a casting date of 1-21-70 like most of the 1971 Hemi E Body have between their frame rails originally. I also have a 440-6 motor with a casting date in January of 1970 on the block. It looks like Chrysler fired up the forge and started doing Hemi and 440 block in January of 1970. Most of these Hemi blocks were cast between January 19 and 27 or 1970 a few before. I have not every seen an original Hemi motor in a 1971 E body with a casting date after January of 1970. Would like to know if anyone else has ever come across an original Hemi block to an ebody cast after the January date 1970.

Posted By: swapman

Re: Original 70- 71 Hemi car engine casting dates,,,, - 03/30/15 07:04 PM

Quote:

Swapman and I being auto workers, if we drank and smoked as much as everyone says Auto workers do we would of never made it to the 30 year mark. Sure in every work place there are the abusers but you can not put us all in that picture. Now we don't mind having a brown pop when we go to Carlisle or the Mopar Nationals were just like very one else.

Hemicar.... speak for yourself. I drank and smoked more than everyone says we did.

But it was on MY time, not Chryslers time. Well there were a few Christmas partys..............

But truth be told, there were five thousand of us. 99% towed the Company line.

Just like every place else in 60's and 70's in America, some marched to a different drummer.

Chrysler, FORD and GM workers built the best cars that Chrysler, FORD and GM big shots would allow us to build. When we are given crap parts and always expected to make them fit perfect in 50 seconds or less....well sometimes, CRAP happens.....

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Original 70- 71 Hemi car engine casting dates,,,, - 03/30/15 07:34 PM

Giving any data about anything other than a hemi is really irrelevant to the question asked ... though it's a nice gesture ... Chrysler many, many more 440 powered cars than they built hemi powered cars, it's rarer to find a casting date that is 2 years prior to assembly on a 440 during the musclecar era ...

Posted By: RSNOMO

Re: Original 70- 71 Hemi car engine casting dates,,,, - 03/30/15 08:12 PM

Quote:

But truth be told, there were five thousand of us. 99% towed the Company line.

Swapper...

I worked at Lynch Rd. right before Lido came into the equation...

Got family history with Chrysler going back to the '30's...

There were 'scenario's'...

I heard the stories...

We can talk about it...

But probably not here...

Posted By: swapman

Re: Original 70- 71 Hemi car engine casting dates,,,, - 03/30/15 08:20 PM

When I say 99%, I mean Belvidere. I know all about Lynch and Hamtramck.

Wasn't safe to go into the stairwells alone.
Also all the illegal and immoral practices that went on.
I hear yah.

But out here in the cornfields, not so much.

Most of us partied our butts off, just not at work. MOSTLY....

Posted By: RSNOMO

Re: Original 70- 71 Hemi car engine casting dates,,,, - 03/30/15 08:38 PM

Quote:

I know all about Lynch and Hamtramck.

Me, too...

And I know all about the shining star that once was Dodge Main...

Only, the gangster sh&@ always gets the headlines...

There was a time when it was different...

Somehow, that never seems to make good copy...

Posted By: hemicar1971

Re: Original 70- 71 Hemi car engine casting dates,,,, - 03/31/15 01:15 AM

Hamtramck was a hell hole. I have talked to people that worked there and were also outside suppliers that saw knife fights and all kinds of stuff that would make you not want to go back again. You think your new 1970 Hemi Cuda Convertible did not see 7 grand going through roll test and out the door to the shipping yard. It never putted inside the fence anytime because it was rare. Workers worried about their backs not if some part went on correctly. Sure glad I never worked in that kind of plant but there were a lot of things that did happen that management never heard about. We might of had a pint on a friday night but usually waited to get out to the bar after work because there were not many women working in the plant and the bar was full on a Friday night and out pockets had the hard earned money to spend. Every plant or work place has their drunk. Seen plenty of them and protected a few doing their jobs when they could not but you get tired of that growing older.

Posted By: swapman

Re: Original 70- 71 Hemi car engine casting dates,,,, - 03/31/15 01:59 AM

When we had transferees from Lynch and Hamtramck to Belvidere, they were amazed that this was a Chrysler Auto plant. No muggings, no prostitutes, very little smoking and drinking (comparatively).

They thought they had died and gone to Heaven. When chances came to return to the City plants, most declined.

Belvidere to Hamtramck/Lynch Rd. approx. 300 miles. I mean LIGHT YEARS. Older GM plants, same deal.

But I will always believe that the vast majority of Auto workers tried to build the best car that management would allow.

Posted By: hemicar1971

Re: Original 70- 71 Hemi car engine casting dates,,,, - 03/31/15 05:30 AM

I remember back in the early eighties getting bad front fenders and the first shift sorted all the good ones left and the fenders went to the elpo and then body. Well the next shift had no fenders left that made the good pile. So management lowered their standard and we sorted the fenders on our shift and completed and use these up. So guess what happens on the next shift. They sort the fenders again lowering quality and built the shift with this scrap. Finally a expedited truck full of new fenders show up and the good stuff finally was put to use. So management told us basically to put the crap on the line so it would not shut down. Quality has to come from some place and management idea was first to build and quality was way down the list.

Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: Original 70- 71 Hemi car engine casting dates,,,, - 03/31/15 05:35 AM

I just brought another 1970 Hemi into the shop, original numbers engine from a 1970 Hemi Challenger. casting date; 11-11-68. 10,000 day assembly date: 3066 (Friday, December 19, 1969)

Posted By: hemicar1971

Re: Original 70- 71 Hemi car engine casting dates,,,, - 03/31/15 05:44 AM

Seems like this day 11-11-68 was a huge day to make Hemi Blocks. Scott at one time you were writing down the casting dates of Hemi blocks are you still doing that. If so maybe we can create another post that people can add their hemi block casting on.

Posted By: swapman

Re: Original 70- 71 Hemi car engine casting dates,,,, - 03/31/15 05:46 AM

I watched the same thing at Belvidere. Bad door assemblys were shipped to salvage hole.

Better ones fixed bad ones segregated.

TICK TICK goes the clock, running out of doors.

Back we go sort and stack all over.

Tick tick tick goes the clock.

Upper Management arrives on scene. (Looks like they won't make the numbers tonite). Oh contrae. The power of a white shirt and tie is coming.

Viola, just like magic all those bad doors are now on cars heading up to paint.

And you know what always blew my mind?

When every day car customers were being asked what was wrong with U.S. made cars.

Most blamed the UAW assembler for poor workmanship and too high of wages.

And some people wonder why I have no love for upper management.

Just glad we were able to do as good a job as we could.

So happy that this is all in the past. Those business policy's would ruin a company if they tried it today.

Posted By: RSNOMO

Re: Original 70- 71 Hemi car engine casting dates,,,, - 03/31/15 05:57 AM

Swapper...

What year did you start at Bel???

(Bet it was when Grace was singing, "One pill makes you larger...")

Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: Original 70- 71 Hemi car engine casting dates,,,, - 03/31/15 06:00 AM

Quote:

Seems like this day 11-11-68 was a huge day to make Hemi Blocks. Scott at one time you were writing down the casting dates of Hemi blocks are you still doing that. If so maybe we can create another post that people can add their hemi block casting on.

Yes, and sure, I'll start a new post

Posted By: swapman

Re: Original 70- 71 Hemi car engine casting dates,,,, - 03/31/15 06:18 AM

Quote:

Swapper...

What year did you start at Bel???

(Bet it was when Grace was singing, "One pill makes you larger...")

Go ask ALICE.

1967 graduated high school, started at Chrysler because they paid $2.95 a hour or something like that.

And one pill makes you small.

I worked my hieny off as did most. Good Midwest work ethic.

And the one that Mother gives you won't do anything at all.

Made good money made great friends. Sadly, some enemies.

Had a great career, owe everything too Chrysler Corp. But I can't help but wonder, if we were allowed to build cars the right way.....Hmmmmmm.

Maybe most of the industrys bad, could have been avoided....

Remember what the dormouse said.

FEED your HEMI...

And no pill made me big. Swedish parents are to blame for that.

Posted By: swapman

Re: Original 70- 71 Hemi car engine casting dates,,,, - 03/31/15 06:20 AM

Maybe we better take all this to a new forum. This was originally something about Hemi Blocks?

Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: Original 70- 71 Hemi car engine casting dates,,,, - 03/31/15 06:24 AM

I'll start a new thread concerning casting numbers and other details.

Posted By: cudino

Re: Original 70- 71 Hemi car engine casting dates,,,, - 03/31/15 07:54 AM

Quote:

I am in the process of restoring/rebuilding the engine and trans for a known #s 71 hemicuda...The block has a casting date of 11/68..The VIN stamp looks 1000% legit...I dont have the car so I dont know the SPD, but the vin sequence is in the 4's...so its a late production...Later than any Ive ever seen, yet this one has an earlier cast block.

I've been gathering my hemi casting dates, which I'll post in Scott's new thread. But I did want to mention another car. According to the Inspection Report posted for the blood-money auction the EV2 '71 Hemicuda they sold was VIN 4xxxxx, and was described to have its original motor with casting date of 4-15-68. I have a feeling we'll find that, generally, the early '71 Hemi cars got the later blocks as Hemicar mentioned, but the casting dates generally got earlier and earlier for the later built cars.
- Wade