Posted By: Imrare
383 Engine Question - 06/12/13 07:20 PM
Does anyone produce a new factory replacement RB block that would bolt into my '69 roadrunner?
383 Engine Question
Posted By: 71birdJ68
Re: 383 Engine Question - 06/12/13 08:10 PM
Sorry, but what does that have to do with a 383? Please
Posted By: 6bblgt
Re: 383 Engine Question - 06/12/13 08:42 PM
350 - 361 - 383 - 400s are "B" engines
383 - 413 - 426 - 440s are "RB" engines (383 "RB" was '59-'60 ONLY)
I do NOT believe there are any currently available aftermarket NEW "B" or "RB" blocks.
383 - 413 - 426 - 440s are "RB" engines (383 "RB" was '59-'60 ONLY)
I do NOT believe there are any currently available aftermarket NEW "B" or "RB" blocks.
Posted By: Imrare
Re: 383 Engine Question - 06/12/13 10:22 PM
Okay, I guess I got the letters wrong? Maybe it was HP that I remember reading on the block...in any case, 69 roadrunners came with specific 383 engines...I am interested in purchasing a new block that is as close as possible to the OE specs of that engine...are they available?
Posted By: viperblue72
Re: 383 Engine Question - 06/12/13 10:23 PM
Don't think so. But you can still find factory 383 blocks without a problem. Nobody has a reason to raman a 383 block. Everybody wants more than that from an aftermarket block. That's like asking do they make an aftermarket 283 block. Now a low deck block with a big bore may be available through indy? But I think even then they didn't get enough sales and are discontinued? I could be wrong, but im pretty sure that's the case.
Posted By: Imrare
Re: 383 Engine Question - 06/12/13 10:26 PM
Thanks for the info 6bbl gt
Posted By: viperblue72
Re: 383 Engine Question - 06/12/13 10:28 PM
You could do a 400 low deck and stroke it to 512 cubes and make it look like a 383. 
Just an idea
.
Just an idea
.
Posted By: 383stude
Re: 383 Engine Question - 06/12/13 10:31 PM
Also there is nothing specific to a 383 from a roadrunner, in fact the only differentiation is between the 2 barrel and 4 barrel engines with the latter having the 4 barrel carb, more cam, and more compression. Even if you looked at 440s the only difference between the 440 in an Imperial and that of a 4 barrel roadrunner is the car surrounding the engine.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 383 Engine Question - 06/12/13 10:38 PM
Quote:
Also there is nothing specific to a 383 from a roadrunner, in fact the only differentiation is between the 2 barrel and 4 barrel engines with the latter having the 4 barrel carb, more cam, and more compression. Even if you looked at 440s the only difference between the 440 in an Imperial and that of a 4 barrel roadrunner is the car surrounding the engine.
You are only partly right, you forgot the most IMPORTANT difference, the 2 stamps H and P .
The 383 HP also has different valve springs than a 2bbl engine , different exhasut manifolds, and the exhaust system is different and different setup of the distributor.
There wasn't a 440 installed in any roadrunner from the factory unless it had a 6pk induction ... EXCEPT for the 70 Superbird or it was a roadrunner with the GTX option.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 383 Engine Question - 06/12/13 10:39 PM
Quote:
Okay, I guess I got the letters wrong? Maybe it was HP that I remember reading on the block...in any case, 69 roadrunners came with specific 383 engines...I am interested in purchasing a new block that is as close as possible to the OE specs of that engine...are they available?
There isn't a new block unless you get lucky and find an NOS block somewhere , but that block won't be stamped correctly.
I ASSuME you do not have the original engine for your roadrunner ?
Posted By: Q5_Ed
Re: 383 Engine Question - 06/12/13 10:44 PM
Surely you have an extra 383HP you can sell? 
If not there is a 69 383 forSALE IN B-BODY PARTS SECTION.
If not there is a 69 383 forSALE IN B-BODY PARTS SECTION.
Posted By: Imrare
Re: 383 Engine Question - 06/12/13 10:55 PM
My engine is the original numbers matching engine but I have been trying to solve an overheating issue with the engine for over 4 years. This car is not a driver but has up to this point been a show car and without getting into all of the diagnostics I've done over those years, I am relegated now to removing the engine and tearing it down. I suspect blockage or restriction of some sort in the cooling jackets but my last last resort would be to buy a new block to insure there are no issues. I don't really think that will be a possible outcome, I was just curious, if I needed or wanted to buy a new 383 block, are they available.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 383 Engine Question - 06/12/13 11:04 PM
As far as I know there is no cast iron low deck block available that looks the original 69 383 block.
Yes you can buy a new lock deck block, Indy sells one and Keith Black sells one but they are both aluminum and I'm sure you could get them with a 4.25 bore if you wanted.
I have seen your many posts on your overheating issues and without actually what you see as the issue it's hard to say what it is or isn't.
Your other option is to find another 69 383 HP block and put your original in the corner.
I helped a member deal with an overheating issue , it turned out there was a thin spot in the side of the block that was not allowing the cooling system to pressurize , it was found as a stain in the paint on the side of the block , ran a couple of bottles of Moroso ceramic seal thru the block and it fixed it.
Yes you can buy a new lock deck block, Indy sells one and Keith Black sells one but they are both aluminum and I'm sure you could get them with a 4.25 bore if you wanted.
I have seen your many posts on your overheating issues and without actually what you see as the issue it's hard to say what it is or isn't.
Your other option is to find another 69 383 HP block and put your original in the corner.
I helped a member deal with an overheating issue , it turned out there was a thin spot in the side of the block that was not allowing the cooling system to pressurize , it was found as a stain in the paint on the side of the block , ran a couple of bottles of Moroso ceramic seal thru the block and it fixed it.
Posted By: Imrare
Re: 383 Engine Question - 06/12/13 11:48 PM
JohnRR, yes we have had many posts over the years on this and like I said, I'm basically down to pulling the engine, the engine overheats at idle on a warm day. I've tried different thermostats, radiators, water pumps, timing, different gas, etc. etc. etc. nothing has helped. If the weather is cool 70 degrees or less, no problem, it can idle forever. but on a warm day, if the engine is warmed up, it will over heat to the point of spark knocking within 15 minutes. Rush hour traffic would be "killer".
Thanks for your information and ideas.
Bob
Thanks for your information and ideas.
Bob
Posted By: MOPARMIKE69
Re: 383 Engine Question - 06/13/13 12:59 PM
Quote:
JohnRR, yes we have had many posts over the years on this and like I said, I'm basically down to pulling the engine, the engine overheats at idle on a warm day. I've tried different thermostats, radiators, water pumps, timing, different gas, etc. etc. etc. nothing has helped. If the weather is cool 70 degrees or less, no problem, it can idle forever. but on a warm day, if the engine is warmed up, it will over heat to the point of spark knocking within 15 minutes. Rush hour traffic would be "killer".
Thanks for your information and ideas.
Bob
Did you use a fan shroud? You didn't mention one in your post. You must use a fan shroud on these. I have seen one solve MANY overheating situations on many cars. Especially at idle!
Posted By: Imrare
Re: 383 Engine Question - 06/13/13 06:51 PM
Yes, I used a fan shroud but the car is not coded for a fan shroud...it shouldn't need it.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 383 Engine Question - 06/13/13 09:24 PM
Quote:
Yes, I used a fan shroud but the car is not coded for a fan shroud...it shouldn't need it.
Do you have a broadcast sheet ? the shroud isn't on the tag , but that aside the basic 3.23 geared runner and superbee in 69 didn't come with a shroud.
It'll be interesting to see what you find inside the block when you pull the core plugs.
I don't remember all the things that are pointing to it overheating, but does the system hold pressure when it's up to temp , is it boiling over ?
What are you using as a gauge to tell you the car is overheating ?
Posted By: Imrare
Re: 383 Engine Question - 06/15/13 12:13 AM
The system is holding pressure. It does not boil over unless I fill the radiator higher than 1/2 inch below the radiator neck. I don't have a broadcast sheet but can see from the parts book a 4 bbl 383 only came with a shroud if it had A/C or Max Cooling (26 inch). When I purchased the car the engine had been rebuilt and I only took it down to the "short block" when I restored the car, put new gaskets in everything and detailed the engine. I didn't realize at that time it had an overheating problem. The seller never mentioned it but since has pretty much come clean. No one knows if the block was "hot tanked" when it was rebuilt. I have put an analog Temp gage with a probe installed in the water pump housing where the heater hose nipple is located to validate my heat gage on the dash. Both appear to be correct. Day before yesterday it was 93 degrees here and I tested it with a NEW after market aluminum radiator to be sure it wasn't the OE radiator causing the problem (even though 2 shops told me my OE radiator was fine). The engine reached 215 after about 20 minutes of idling. That is with a 180 degree thermostat. I know people will say 215 isn't too hot but the point is, if it would have been 97 degrees, the engine would have gotten exponentially hotter.
I will have my car at the Mopar Nationals under the OE Tent this year and when I return I will be pulling the engine and disassembling it part by part looking for an anomaly. I suspect the block but don't have any idea what I will find. My nightmare is that I go to all of this work and don't find anything. That is why I was asking if there are any 383 OE blocks being produced. I'd just put the matching numbers block in the corner and put a completely different block in the car rather than go to all of this trouble to just have it continue to overheat. It is a quandary.
I will have my car at the Mopar Nationals under the OE Tent this year and when I return I will be pulling the engine and disassembling it part by part looking for an anomaly. I suspect the block but don't have any idea what I will find. My nightmare is that I go to all of this work and don't find anything. That is why I was asking if there are any 383 OE blocks being produced. I'd just put the matching numbers block in the corner and put a completely different block in the car rather than go to all of this trouble to just have it continue to overheat. It is a quandary.
Posted By: Imrare
Re: 383 Engine Question - 06/15/13 12:19 AM
JohnRR,correction, I didn't get the shroud information from the Parts Book, it was the Service Manual and yes, my car came with 323 gears and a 4 speed transmission...although I don't think the 4 speed has anything to do with it having or not having a shroud.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 383 Engine Question - 06/15/13 01:49 AM
I don't think you really have as big a problem as you think. Maybe the seller didn't mention it because it isn't a problem ?
First off you can't fill the radiator to the neck, many people do that , guilty as charged , but that system does not have an overflow tank or a recovery system so it needs room to expand without burping out. Make sure you have the correct cap on it, a cap for a recovery system is going to allow fluid to escape because it thinks there is a tank on the end of the overflow hose. I'm sure that was already brought up.
Now I'm going to ask the really STUPID question ... why are you letting it sit and idle till it overheats? What's your timing set at and what octane fuel are you running ? did you put steel shim gaskets back in or composite?
When you took off the heads did you make note of the overbore size , if any?
Here's a silly test for your idle adventure , put a fan in front of the car and see what happens .
Also I wonder how hot it would get wit han original 190 degree thermostat in it ?
I'm sure there is an OE unbuilt 383 block out there in an obsure warehouse or buried in the back of an engine shop somewhere.
Do you have a 26" rad you could put in place of your 22" to see if the same problem with your extended idle till it overheats test?
I had the same thing happen once with it overheating with an extended idle , 26" rad and a shroud, std bore 383 sitting in a line of traffic for 45 minutes. I didn't think about it while i was sitting in my truck and I do not know why my father sat there with it running for that long not going anywhere
First off you can't fill the radiator to the neck, many people do that , guilty as charged , but that system does not have an overflow tank or a recovery system so it needs room to expand without burping out. Make sure you have the correct cap on it, a cap for a recovery system is going to allow fluid to escape because it thinks there is a tank on the end of the overflow hose. I'm sure that was already brought up.
Now I'm going to ask the really STUPID question ... why are you letting it sit and idle till it overheats? What's your timing set at and what octane fuel are you running ? did you put steel shim gaskets back in or composite?
When you took off the heads did you make note of the overbore size , if any?
Here's a silly test for your idle adventure , put a fan in front of the car and see what happens .
Also I wonder how hot it would get wit han original 190 degree thermostat in it ?
I'm sure there is an OE unbuilt 383 block out there in an obsure warehouse or buried in the back of an engine shop somewhere.
Do you have a 26" rad you could put in place of your 22" to see if the same problem with your extended idle till it overheats test?
I had the same thing happen once with it overheating with an extended idle , 26" rad and a shroud, std bore 383 sitting in a line of traffic for 45 minutes. I didn't think about it while i was sitting in my truck and I do not know why my father sat there with it running for that long not going anywhere
Posted By: ademon
Re: 383 Engine Question - 06/15/13 02:25 AM
Mine heats up good 205ish at a long idle on a 90* day, but I don't usually go out of my way to idle it for long periods. I think a lot of these problems are due to the poor fuel, anyway a few ideas make sure there is no space between your radiator and the support if there is use foam to seal you want the fan to pull straight through the radiator through the grill, need a good hood seal too. Also make sure the exhaust manifold baffle is open. And if this is a fair weather car I would run with the heat crossover blocked.
Posted By: RoadRunnerJD
Re: 383 Engine Question - 06/15/13 03:51 AM
The 383HP with a 22" radiator does not have a fan shroud. I ran a 383 4 speed with the 22" radiator and a 170 themostat for years with no overheating problems ever. It ran 13.20's at 106 with a 4.30 rear and slicks. A few ideas:
*Do you have the original fan and correct spacer on it?
*Did you check your bottom radiator hose to see if it was collapsing when it started overheating?
*Is your thermostat in right?
Now something a little more serious...are you sure the head gaskets are installed properly and the holes for the water passages between the block and heads are not blocked? I did a motor for a guy once who had the machine work done by someone I did not recommend. They milled off the alignment dowels in the block. He did not want to take it back and insisted we could line up the head gaskets and heads without them. He also would not rod out the radiator or get it pressure tested because it worked before he pulled the motor. We put 12.5:1's in it and it over heated like a mutha. He ended up having to get te dowels installed and once everything was lined up it ran cool as a cucumber with a 22" radiator that he ended up getting rodded out.
It sounds to me like once the motor warms up and the thermostat opens up, it's sucking the hose shut?
You can find a 383HP on the want ads...there will be a few for sale cheap at Carlisle in July, etc....but it's probably not in the block.
*Do you have the original fan and correct spacer on it?
*Did you check your bottom radiator hose to see if it was collapsing when it started overheating?
*Is your thermostat in right?
Now something a little more serious...are you sure the head gaskets are installed properly and the holes for the water passages between the block and heads are not blocked? I did a motor for a guy once who had the machine work done by someone I did not recommend. They milled off the alignment dowels in the block. He did not want to take it back and insisted we could line up the head gaskets and heads without them. He also would not rod out the radiator or get it pressure tested because it worked before he pulled the motor. We put 12.5:1's in it and it over heated like a mutha. He ended up having to get te dowels installed and once everything was lined up it ran cool as a cucumber with a 22" radiator that he ended up getting rodded out.
It sounds to me like once the motor warms up and the thermostat opens up, it's sucking the hose shut?
You can find a 383HP on the want ads...there will be a few for sale cheap at Carlisle in July, etc....but it's probably not in the block.
Posted By: notforsale440
Re: 383 Engine Question - 06/15/13 01:54 PM
had this issue on an amc rebel machine back in the day....... the water jackets were chock full of what appeared to be carbon/rusty crap...... we went at it with ice pics and such and got most of it out....... rebuilt the engine and all was well
Posted By: Imrare
Re: 383 Engine Question - 06/19/13 12:08 AM
Let me answer these questions one by one. I know the radiator shouldn't be filled all the way to the neck, I was just saying, it only boils out if I get the coolant closer than 1/2 inch from the neck. I the correct 16 lb. cap. I am letting it sit and idle because I've been caught is stop and go traffic a couple of times with the car and one time it was overheating so bad it burnt the plastic steering column bearing (at the bottom of the steering column) and was spark knocking so bad I was really concerned that I may have damaged the engine before I could get off the road and get it shut down. That was 4 years ago. So, I need this problem fixed to feel I can drive the car. I did not mic the overbore but I did note in the receipts that came with the car that .30 over pistons were purchased. I used metal head gaskets when I reassemble the engine. When I put a large fan in front of the radiator it will delay its overheating. Haven't tried a 190 thermostat. I've tried a 160, 180, and not thermostat, same result. Have not tried a 26" radiator as it will not fit on a radiator support made for a 22" radiator.
I am running standard pump gas. My timing is set per specs at 0 TDC. There is no space between my rad support and radiator and I have the filler piece between the bumper and the lower part of the rad support as well, along with a good sealing rubber hood seal. My heat riser I'm not sure about...I haven't thought about that. It is a stock riser, moves freely and has the thermal coil intact and in good condition, but I'll check that. Not sure what you mean by "run with the heat crossover blocked. Wouldn't I have to remove the intake manifold to block that?
I have the correct 7 blade, fixed fan on the car with the proper spacer length when compared to the parts book. I've included a pic of my engine compartment.
The water jackets were very clean when I had the engine apart a few years ago (down to the short block). Did not see any evidence of clogged water jackets.
My plan at this time is to remove the engine this fall and completely disassemble it over the winter to see if I can find what is causing the problem.
I am running standard pump gas. My timing is set per specs at 0 TDC. There is no space between my rad support and radiator and I have the filler piece between the bumper and the lower part of the rad support as well, along with a good sealing rubber hood seal. My heat riser I'm not sure about...I haven't thought about that. It is a stock riser, moves freely and has the thermal coil intact and in good condition, but I'll check that. Not sure what you mean by "run with the heat crossover blocked. Wouldn't I have to remove the intake manifold to block that?
I have the correct 7 blade, fixed fan on the car with the proper spacer length when compared to the parts book. I've included a pic of my engine compartment.
The water jackets were very clean when I had the engine apart a few years ago (down to the short block). Did not see any evidence of clogged water jackets.
My plan at this time is to remove the engine this fall and completely disassemble it over the winter to see if I can find what is causing the problem.
Posted By: Imrare
Re: 383 Engine Question - 06/19/13 12:13 AM
Here is another pic of my engine compartment without the radiator. Good shot of the fan and spacer.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 383 Engine Question - 06/19/13 12:35 AM
Quote:
I am letting it sit and idle because I've been caught is stop and go traffic a couple of times with the car and one time it was overheating so bad it burnt the plastic steering column bearing (at the bottom of the steering column) and was spark knocking so bad I was really concerned that I may have damaged the engine before I could get off the road and get it shut down. That was 4 years ago.
Tell us about your carb, the exhaust is the only thing that would get hot enough to melt that bushing, you may be chasing the wrong problem.
Posted By: Imrare
Re: 383 Engine Question - 06/19/13 12:52 AM
The steering column bearing is right next to where the exhaust manifold meets the exhaust pipe, right above the starter. My carb is a stock 4 Speed Carb (different from Auto), new about 5 years ago, Carter AVS, I believe.
Posted By: superbeedave
Re: 383 Engine Question - 06/19/13 01:07 AM
You know it's been awhile since I chimed in on any post but I have to say something about this situation. You have your initial set at "0"
and with .03 over pistons? That may be your biggest problem right there. That is what the factory specs. were back in the day of high octane gas. You need about 10-12 degrees of initial timing and your mechanical needs limit to 36-38 with the vacuum adv. hose plugged. It maybe overheating at idle due to not enough inital timing. This is my
worth.
and with .03 over pistons? That may be your biggest problem right there. That is what the factory specs. were back in the day of high octane gas. You need about 10-12 degrees of initial timing and your mechanical needs limit to 36-38 with the vacuum adv. hose plugged. It maybe overheating at idle due to not enough inital timing. This is my
worth.
Posted By: ademon
Re: 383 Engine Question - 06/19/13 02:17 AM
I agree, my 383 4-speed is at 12 btdc and I think 35 total. This unleaded ethanol fuel is a lot different than fuel in the 60's. I would bump it to 10 or 12 btdc and also the factory I think states to set idle at 600 or 650 rpm. I have mine at about 850 rpm to splash more oil on the cam and to keep the fan pulling more air.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 383 Engine Question - 06/19/13 02:21 PM
Both of the posts above are going in the direction I was headed , the car is probably running lean and that is why the exhaust is getting so hot, eventually the higher combustion heat is going to raise the water temp.
Posted By: markrr
Re: 383 Engine Question - 06/19/13 02:51 PM
I also agree with the timing. If I retard my timing by a few degrees from 15 btc my car overheats even on a cool day. I'd readjust your timing before doing anything else.
Posted By: GTX MATT
Re: 383 Engine Question - 06/19/13 03:19 PM
Quote:
I also agree with the timing. If I retard my timing by a few degrees from 15 btc my car overheats even on a cool day. I'd readjust your timing before doing anything else.
The car will absolutely overheat with the timing set there. I suppose this may have worked from the factory, but these engines seem to run cooler on leaded gas. I agree 100 percent with the post above, around 15 degrees initial seems to be the sweet spot. Much less and I typically find that the cars want to overheat at idle.
Does it overheat cruising also (still may if you only have 26 degrees of total timing)?
Recurve the distributor. If you want to experiment to see if it makes a difference, or you're lazy and want a band aid fix, hook your vacuum advance up to a manifold source and see if it overheats at idle. I am really willing to bet it doesn't.
One of my cars was having some strange distributor issues at one point, and in my experimenting trying to solve the problem, I found that going from 18 initial to 12 degrees initial timing was making it overheat like a mother at idle, just for an idea of how sensitive it can be. Car would idle at 180 all day long at 18 degrees on a 95 degree day, 12 and it was hitting 220 sitting at a stop light on an 80 degree day.
Posted By: MOPARMIKE69
Re: 383 Engine Question - 06/19/13 03:22 PM
After you re-set your timing, and your over heating problem goes away, you need to have a cooler full of cold ones to give to all the Moparts members who saved you from completely removing your engine and taking it apart. 
Will you be showing it? If so there a few things you need to change so you will score better based on your engine shots.
Will you be showing it? If so there a few things you need to change so you will score better based on your engine shots.
Posted By: superbeedave
Re: 383 Engine Question - 06/19/13 03:49 PM
Quote:
After you re-set your timing, and your over heating problem goes away, you need to have a cooler full of cold ones to give to all the Moparts members who saved you from completely removing your engine and taking it apart.
Will you be showing it? If so there a few things you need to change so you will score better based on your engine shots.
I'm very fond of a 6 pak of cold Corona with lime! I'm just saying!
Posted By: MOPARMIKE69
Re: 383 Engine Question - 06/19/13 04:34 PM
Quote:Quote:
After you re-set your timing, and your over heating problem goes away, you need to have a cooler full of cold ones to give to all the Moparts members who saved you from completely removing your engine and taking it apart.
Will you be showing it? If so there a few things you need to change so you will score better based on your engine shots.
I'm very fond of a 6 pak of cold Corona with lime! I'm just saying!
Posted By: Imrare
Re: 383 Engine Question - 06/19/13 10:19 PM
Believe me, I wish I could fix the overheating by simply advancing the timing. I'd buy you a truck load of beer. But I assure you, over the last 4 years, I've had my timing set advanced, retarded, all over the place, it makes no difference, it still overheats. I will say though, this engine has a real sweet spot" at about 10 - 12 degrees advanced, that is where it idles the smoothest. I put it back to TDC recently just because someone else told me having it advanced that much could be making it over heat. Everybody has an opinion and I'm listening to everyone. One thing I will say is that I have never had my distributor recurved, etc. This distributor was purchased during the restoration (4 years ago) and is a NAPA replacement. I guess it could be off from factory specs, but I don't really know what that means. If the engine is idling at TDC or 10 before or whatever the timing light says, isn't that what the timing is? Idle is where the problem is so either way, TDC or 10 before, it still overheats either setting, or am I simplifying it too much?
Posted By: Imrare
Re: 383 Engine Question - 06/19/13 10:24 PM
Quote:
After you re-set your timing, and your over heating problem goes away, you need to have a cooler full of cold ones to give to all the Moparts members who saved you from completely removing your engine and taking it apart.
Will you be showing it? If so there a few things you need to change so you will score better based on your engine shots.
What would you change based on the engine shots - I've changed to the yellow top battery.
Posted By: ademon
Re: 383 Engine Question - 06/19/13 11:49 PM
Well I would keep the timing in the 10 to 15 btdc area since this is where most of us seem to run. Then I would make sure your idle mixture screws are around a turn and a half out, start the car cold and with the radiator cap off when it starts to hit 180 you should see a good amount of coolant flowing in the radiator also make sure your heater is on to make sure there is not a air block there. Keep your idle at 800 to 900 rpm, with that solid fan and shroud it should suck and hold a sheet of paper easily. You could feel the radiator and if it has a cool spot it may have partial blockage.
Posted By: superbeedave
Re: 383 Engine Question - 06/20/13 12:20 AM
Is your fan too far into the shroud or is it too far out of the shroud? I do believe it is suppose to be a 1/3 to 2/3 into the shroud. And are you sure it is pulling enough air through the radiator? Do this trick, while it is idling put a piece of paper on the outside of the radiator and if it pulls the paper up against the radiator and holds it then you have enough air flow.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 383 Engine Question - 06/20/13 10:35 AM
Quote:
Believe me, I wish I could fix the overheating by simply advancing the timing. I'd buy you a truck load of beer. But I assure you, over the last 4 years, I've had my timing set advanced, retarded, all over the place, it makes no difference, it still overheats. I will say though, this engine has a real sweet spot" at about 10 - 12 degrees advanced, that is where it idles the smoothest. I put it back to TDC recently just because someone else told me having it advanced that much could be making it over heat. Everybody has an opinion and I'm listening to everyone. One thing I will say is that I have never had my distributor recurved, etc. This distributor was purchased during the restoration (4 years ago) and is a NAPA replacement. I guess it could be off from factory specs, but I don't really know what that means. If the engine is idling at TDC or 10 before or whatever the timing light says, isn't that what the timing is? Idle is where the problem is so either way, TDC or 10 before, it still overheats either setting, or am I simplifying it too much?
You need to put it back to the timing where it idles the best and see what your total advance is at 3000 rpm , go as high as 3500 , if it's over 38 degrees you need to have the distributor recurved to limit total timing , the mopar distributors of the day have a lot of mechanical advance in them , 30plus degrees , why , only mopar engineers know .
Also it's going to take more than timing, the carb needs to be jetted up because of the current fuel, if the inside of the block is clean as you say it's not the cooling system causing your high engine compartment heat issue.
Posted By: MOPARMIKE69
Re: 383 Engine Question - 06/20/13 03:22 PM
Quote:Quote:
After you re-set your timing, and your over heating problem goes away, you need to have a cooler full of cold ones to give to all the Moparts members who saved you from completely removing your engine and taking it apart.
Will you be showing it? If so there a few things you need to change so you will score better based on your engine shots.
What would you change based on the engine shots - I've changed to the yellow top battery.
You have a PM
Posted By: superbeedave
Re: 383 Engine Question - 06/20/13 04:37 PM
If it doesn't overheat at 50 mph but it overheats while your sitting still idling. The reason it doesn't overheat at 50 mph is because the air is forced thru the radiator from the high speeds but, if it overheats at idle and isn't the timing then it is a lack of air flow thru the radiator or to me it is probably both. If it overheats at highway speeds then that means it's is a coolant flow problem. I went thru all of this for months after my 383 rebuild 3 years ago and I had to start doing my reasearch on all of this. My 22" radiator setup with no shroud also worked fine until after the build. I read every book and online write ups on overheating and ignition timing and lean condition and all of these will cause overheating if not tuned correctly. My advice to you is to start doing your homework on all this so you can understand what you are dealing with. If there was something wrong with the inside of the engine it would always run hot even going 60 mph. beacuse then something would be blocking off the flow of coolant thru the radiator and engine. Like someone posted earlier, run the engine with the cap off and make sure the coolant is flowing properly thru the radiator and there is air flow thru the radiator. Your dist. should have 26 degrees built in and with 12-14 degrees initial and if you have the factory compression of 9.0-9.5 with the factory cam specs at .050 of something like 205-215 duration then this base timing should be a good start. Like you said everyone is saying do this do that well it's time to start doing your own reasearch on all of this so you don't have to listen to everyones advise cause you will know yourself.
Posted By: mickm
Re: 383 Engine Question - 06/20/13 08:18 PM
when i put the heads back on my old engine, the average temp rose 10-15 degrees, and ran hotter on the highway than off. searched and searched, couldn't find anything.
tore it down for a rebuild, and discovered that the lower 3 water passages on the head gaskets were completely blocked off. no idea why. special order gasket for people who want their engines to run hot?
unfortunately i never noticed this when putting the heads back on. not a big deal in my case, as there were other issues and i was rebuilding it anyway.
but did cause it to overheat on a few hot days stuck in traffic.
tore it down for a rebuild, and discovered that the lower 3 water passages on the head gaskets were completely blocked off. no idea why. special order gasket for people who want their engines to run hot?
unfortunately i never noticed this when putting the heads back on. not a big deal in my case, as there were other issues and i was rebuilding it anyway.
but did cause it to overheat on a few hot days stuck in traffic.
Posted By: SomeCarGuy
Re: 383 Engine Question - 06/20/13 08:39 PM
Quote:
Here is another pic of my engine compartment without the radiator. Good shot of the fan and spacer.
From that angle, the fan belt looks kinda loose. That would certainly hurt you at idle with fan speed.
Are you sure the TDC mark is accurate?
Posted By: HYPER8oSoNic
Re: 383 Engine Question - 06/20/13 10:43 PM
Quote:Quote:
Here is another pic of my engine compartment without the radiator. Good shot of the fan and spacer.
From that angle, the fan belt looks kinda loose. That would certainly hurt you at idle with fan speed.
Are you sure the TDC mark is accurate?
If using the damper that came with the engine from birth (factory) then it may have "shifted" from it's production spec position.It's worth the time to check it and to "degree-in" your cam (if you care to go that far) too. It would help you to get a baseline on your piston/cam phasing, so you can set your ignition timing properly (and possibly your carb jetting/settings also). And it may reduce and/or eliminate the overheating problems occurring. Food for thought
!!
Posted By: chryslerconvert
Re: 383 Engine Question - 06/21/13 09:41 AM
What water pump do you have on your car? Some of the aftermarket ones have very small inlets and outlets. I remember seeing this on one of the Mopar boards I read. 
Posted By: Imrare
Re: 383 Engine Question - 07/31/13 01:14 PM
Here it is at the end of July and I've tried everything and more that has been suggested. I've tried a new aluminum radiator, still overheats, the fan is pulling a lot of air, I've checked the distributor with a vacuum gage at specified rpms per the Service Manual and the advance is within 1 or 2 degrees of spec. I have detailed the engine compartment to remove all evidence of the work I've done over the last several months and have the car back in "show" condition. After the Mopar Nationals I have decided to remove the engine and disassemble it looking for a something that would cause a restriction in the coolant flow or some other reason that would cause the engine to overheat. I will be at the OE Tent on the "show" side of the track at the Mopar nationals if anyone would like to say hi. I'll be the F-5 Green, 1969 RR.
Posted By: Imrare
Re: 383 Engine Question - 07/31/13 02:02 PM
Quote:
What water pump do you have on your car? Some of the aftermarket ones have very small inlets and outlets. I remember seeing this on one of the Mopar boards I read.
I have the OE water pump housing on the engine.
Posted By: mikemee1331
Re: 383 Engine Question - 08/01/13 02:22 PM
this might be of some help to you. great info and suggestions - https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...rue#Post7767559
Posted By: Imrare
Re: 383 Engine Question - 09/03/13 07:13 PM
I have removed my engine and taken it begun dis-assembling it. I have included picture here of what I found. I found something I didn't remember seeing when I originally assembled the engine. The water ports from the block to the head are restricted by a head gasket with 1/8" slits in it rather than the full width of the water port (approximately 1/2 inch wide). See photo. Clearly not only are the slits in the head gasket very narrow but they are not even fully opened up over the entire water port, only a very small portion of the port is available for coolant to flow through. You may be able to see this better one of the close up pictures I took, there you can see just an "eyebrow" of the water port is available for coolant flow as is the corresponding "block" water port (the light blue circle). This to me would severely restrict the coolant flow but I don't know if it would be enough to make it over heat?
Has anyone seen this before? I've read some blogs that this type of head gasket is for the '72 and later engines with emissions concerns and that it will make the "pre-emissions" engines over heat. And, that the "original" Chrysler head gaskets for '68, '69, '70 big blocks had much larger openings in the head gasket that measured approximately 1" X 1/2". That way the opening would fully encapsulate the cooling port in the block and head.
Does anyone have any information this type of head gasket? Would it make the engine overheat?
Has anyone seen this before? I've read some blogs that this type of head gasket is for the '72 and later engines with emissions concerns and that it will make the "pre-emissions" engines over heat. And, that the "original" Chrysler head gaskets for '68, '69, '70 big blocks had much larger openings in the head gasket that measured approximately 1" X 1/2". That way the opening would fully encapsulate the cooling port in the block and head.
Does anyone have any information this type of head gasket? Would it make the engine overheat?
Posted By: GTX MATT
Re: 383 Engine Question - 09/03/13 07:19 PM
Yes, the gasket is supposed to be that way and only allow a small amount through, apparently they made the holes bigger than needed in the head to help get casting sand out or something like that. The fel pro gaskets have a real small slot though, the steel shim gaskets seem to allow more throug than the fel pros.
Posted By: Imrare
Re: 383 Engine Question - 09/03/13 07:19 PM
Here is a close up of the gasket vs. the water port.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 383 Engine Question - 09/03/13 08:11 PM
You have found nothing new , there are TENS of THOUSANDS of engines running with those head gaskets and they are not overheating.
BUT what has been done is lowered the already lower than advertised compression ratio with those basically double the original thickness head gaskets.
Original head gaskets in that area have a rectangle hole that is roughly 1/4 x3/4 in size but the gaskets is only .021 thick and the holes in the block do not line up with the holes in the head on either bank.
BUT the factory did change the holes in the block to a figure 8 style so that the holes do line up , and after looking on ebay examples of NOS gaskets I have found have the same slits instead of rectangle holes , though there is one set on there for 90 bucks that have the rectangle holes.
BUT what has been done is lowered the already lower than advertised compression ratio with those basically double the original thickness head gaskets.
Original head gaskets in that area have a rectangle hole that is roughly 1/4 x3/4 in size but the gaskets is only .021 thick and the holes in the block do not line up with the holes in the head on either bank.
BUT the factory did change the holes in the block to a figure 8 style so that the holes do line up , and after looking on ebay examples of NOS gaskets I have found have the same slits instead of rectangle holes , though there is one set on there for 90 bucks that have the rectangle holes.
Posted By: Imrare
Re: 383 Engine Question - 09/03/13 11:08 PM
So, JohnRR, I believe what you are saying is "this is not a coolant restriction that would cause overheating at idle?"
I have the engine disassembled down to the short block but have not had time to inspected the heads thouoghly for debris in the coolant passages. I am going to disassemble the short block as well, inspect the water passages with a borescope and then have the block boiled out for good measure. I feel confident something in this process will surface as the overheating culprit!
Thank you for responding.
Bob
I have the engine disassembled down to the short block but have not had time to inspected the heads thouoghly for debris in the coolant passages. I am going to disassemble the short block as well, inspect the water passages with a borescope and then have the block boiled out for good measure. I feel confident something in this process will surface as the overheating culprit!
Thank you for responding.
Bob
Posted By: can.al
Re: 383 Engine Question - 09/04/13 02:32 AM
...If your timing is too retarded the burn will still be intense(read HOT) when entering the exhaust manifold,(i.e. the melted lower column nylon bushing near the manifold). This will also boil the coolant in the head and cause over heating.
If rebuilt with low comp. pistons it's not uncommon to run 22 Degrees initial,this will keep the burn in the cylinder where it can be cooled when idling.
.. highway driving provides more air flow and mechanical spark advance keeping your engine cool..
If rebuilt with low comp. pistons it's not uncommon to run 22 Degrees initial,this will keep the burn in the cylinder where it can be cooled when idling.
.. highway driving provides more air flow and mechanical spark advance keeping your engine cool..
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 383 Engine Question - 09/04/13 02:38 PM
Quote:
So, JohnRR, I believe what you are saying is "this is not a coolant restriction that would cause overheating at idle?"
Bob
I don't believe it would, and have only had it happen once ... but that was because the person driving the car , wasn't me but it was may car , sat there with the engine running for 45 mins with no chance of the car moving ...
I was worried about what you were seeing once and I was actually going to drag the holes in the block to increase the flow thru those slits , I went as far as scribing the deck but never finshed it before that block went in the corner.
I'm surprised you didn't mention that there are 2 holes lower down, that are in both the heads and the block, that are blocked completely by the gasket. Some people have gone as far as putting holes in the gaskets to get water flow there.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 383 Engine Question - 09/04/13 02:39 PM
Quote:
...If your timing is too retarded the burn will still be intense(read HOT) when entering the exhaust manifold,(i.e. the melted lower column nylon bushing near the manifold). This will also boil the coolant in the head and cause over heating.
If rebuilt with low comp. pistons it's not uncommon to run 22 Degrees initial,this will keep the burn in the cylinder where it can be cooled when idling.
.. highway driving provides more air flow and mechanical spark advance keeping your engine cool..
What pistons are in the engine and has it been decked to bring that back to their factory location?
I don't remember the specifics of ignition system and such.
Posted By: Imrare
Re: 383 Engine Question - 09/06/13 09:34 PM
JohnRR,
I see the holes in the lower part of the head/block gasket you are describing. Should those holes be open under normal circumstances? Do you know, were those open on an OE Gasket?
Dis-assembled the short block last night. The inside of the block looked pretty clean although I did find a "block" freeze plug in the bottom of the bock between cyl #8 and the back of the block. Don't this that would make it over heat though. I still need to inspect the heads for any debris that would affect coolant flow.
Thanks,
Bob
I see the holes in the lower part of the head/block gasket you are describing. Should those holes be open under normal circumstances? Do you know, were those open on an OE Gasket?
Dis-assembled the short block last night. The inside of the block looked pretty clean although I did find a "block" freeze plug in the bottom of the bock between cyl #8 and the back of the block. Don't this that would make it over heat though. I still need to inspect the heads for any debris that would affect coolant flow.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 383 Engine Question - 09/07/13 01:07 AM
Quote:
JohnRR,
I see the holes in the lower part of the head/block gasket you are describing. Should those holes be open under normal circumstances? Do you know, were those open on an OE Gasket?
Dis-assembled the short block last night. The inside of the block looked pretty clean although I did find a "block" freeze plug in the bottom of the bock between cyl #8 and the back of the block. Don't this that would make it over heat though. I still need to inspect the heads for any debris that would affect coolant flow.
Thanks,
Bob
No the freeze plug floating around in there is not causing the issue and no the holes were not there in an original gasket .
this is the original steel shim gasket from my 69 383HP
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