Moparts
Saving sheet metal?
Posted By: OhioMopar
Saving sheet metal? - 02/11/13 07:55 PM
When you go through the body on a car you are restoring and there are a couple holes, small holes, in spots, do you replace the panel or just patch the holes?
Is it better, in your opinion, to keep as much original sheet metal as possible?
Just curious. Both of my cars suffer from a couple small holes, and I'm talking floor pan holes that can be covered by a dime, in the drivers pans.
The GTS has a couple more holes for things like battery relocation, fuel cell, fuel pump(although those might be run through the vent hole locations) . The Bee has rust I'm the lower ribs of the trunk floor, but is by no means 'gone'.
Posted By: sixpackbee
Re: Saving sheet metal? - 02/11/13 08:07 PM
I always try to save as much of the original metal as is feasable.
Posted By: 70440+6bbl
Re: Saving sheet metal? - 02/11/13 08:08 PM
The plan should be to keep as much OE metal as possible in a true restoration. Sometimes, it isn't really feasible though. The rust in the trunk floor ribs is typical and once it is media blasted, there will be hundreds of little pinholes. Instead of replacing the full floor with China tin, try and just use the center section and butt weld it in, that way, the OE spot welds will still be retained.
Posted By: OhioMopar
Re: Saving sheet metal? - 02/11/13 08:14 PM
Quote:
The plan should be to keep as much OE metal as possible in a true restoration. Sometimes, it isn't really feasible though. The rust in the trunk floor ribs is typical and once it is media blasted, there will be hundreds of little pinholes. Instead of replacing the full floor with China tin, try and just use the center section and butt weld it in, that way, the OE spot welds will still be retained.
I had given that some thought. Buying the full panel and just taking what I needed.
I'm in the same quandary over the right quarter. It has been repaired down low, the area ahead of the wheel looks fine. But up top where it folds into the trunk gutter there is rust through. Wonder if it would be better to patch it OE replace the whole thing. Pretty are it would be less expensive to repair what is there!
Posted By: 70440+6bbl
Re: Saving sheet metal? - 02/11/13 08:18 PM
I'm in the same boat with my Bees original pass qtr, it would probably be easier to replace the full panel with a new one, or original take off.
Posted By: OhioMopar
Re: Saving sheet metal? - 02/11/13 08:28 PM
Would like to hear what you decide. The body work is still a ways off. Just doing some early research.
Posted By: DAYCLONA
Re: Saving sheet metal? - 02/11/13 10:03 PM
I don't believe in the "Frankenpatch" method of bodywork, replace the entire panel with new/used/NOS/repro, leave the patches in the trash, you'll thank yourself later down the road....
Posted By: Silver70
Re: Saving sheet metal? - 02/11/13 11:55 PM
Another problem with fixing just the holes on say a quarter is, it could be thing in other areas and rust through after paint. My challenger had pinholes I could have filled, but replaced it instead because it's just an original triple green 318 car
For me it usually comes down to if its my car or someone elses. My own car, I'll patch and make flush fitting pieces that take more time, but cost me nothing. Since my time costs me nothing. For someone elses car I usually replace the panel or as much of the section that's rusty... since the time involved a lot of times costs more than a panel.
Posted By: domingo
Re: Saving sheet metal? - 02/12/13 03:11 AM
I think saving the original sheetmetal and patching is always better....if they are small patches....
AND IF YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO MAKE A GOOD CLEAN PATCH!!!
Im not talking about the above mentioned "franken-patches" that need to be buried in bondo afterwards....those suck!
Posted By: OhioMopar
Re: Saving sheet metal? - 02/12/13 07:54 AM
So no cut down stop signs banged into place?
Posted By: Silver70
Re: Saving sheet metal? - 02/12/13 08:01 AM
I've cut out sections made from pop cans to chicken wire over the years... I have seen street signs used as floor pans too
I had some real beater vehicles over the years I had to patch and I wouldn't even do that to them.
Posted By: ek3
Re: Saving sheet metal? - 02/12/13 08:36 AM
Posted By: OhioMopar
Re: Saving sheet metal? - 02/12/13 02:32 PM
I had a '69 Charger once that someone used foil to cover the hole so they could spread the mud on. My '70 Bee had a trunk floor that looked like it was made out of cardboard and straight bondo.
its personal judgement, you can spend time making patches and fixing OE panels or get NOS/used/repro and spend alot of money on them and spend alot of time cutting spot welds and fitting the replacement panels to fit right. either way you still want the car together, so i think its all personal judgement with your skills and experience. those are just my
but im only 18 and restoring my high school graduation present
Posted By: OhioMopar
Re: Saving sheet metal? - 02/13/13 09:56 AM
Good luck on your project! Have you posted it in the projects section?
thanks!
yes its on the restoration forum, its
71challenger 440+6 shaker clone FAST/my HS grad present
Posted By: Birdturd
Re: Saving sheet metal? - 02/15/13 01:10 AM
I would go with the full panel replacement to the seams, most of the time. On my 68 bird the lower quarters were bad and up by the window was so-so and the trunk gutters need a little attention. All in all a full panel was the way to knock it all out at once.
I suppose it could vary on the specific car also, like a Hemi roadrunner vs a 383 car.
Posted By: flypaper
Re: Saving sheet metal? - 02/15/13 02:26 AM
Quote:
I would go with the full panel replacement to the seams, most of the time.
what kills me is all of the half azz trunk floor work i see out there!
alot of people take the short cut
and they will splice in a mess instead of growing a pair
and drilling out the rear panel
they will always say whats left in there is real solid so it
doesn't need to be replaced
Posted By: OhioMopar
Re: Saving sheet metal? - 02/15/13 03:58 AM
Quote:
Quote:
I would go with the full panel replacement to the seams, most of the time.
what kills me is all of the half azz trunk floor work i see out there!
alot of people take the short cut
and they will splice in a mess instead of growing a pair
and drilling out the rear panel
they will always say whats left in there is real solid so it
doesn't need to be replaced
But your post doesn't match your signature... 
Seriously, though. The right quarter has its issues. Down low, up high, and in the rear window area(don't think I mentioned that before). It may only make sense to replace that rather than patch in three different places. Most everything is pretty solid. I think the fenders are usable and I will probably hang a door on the drivers side.
Just getting some ideas.
Posted By: flypaper
Re: Saving sheet metal? - 02/15/13 04:11 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I would go with the full panel replacement to the seams, most of the time.
what kills me is all of the half azz trunk floor work i see out there!
alot of people take the short cut
and they will splice in a mess instead of growing a pair
and drilling out the rear panel
they will always say whats left in there is real solid so it
doesn't need to be replaced
But your post doesn't match your signature...
it all depends on what amd part we are talking about!
there are a few amd parts i have had to frankenslice up to make work..
Posted By: OhioMopar
Re: Saving sheet metal? - 02/15/13 07:24 AM
Noted... I hear the '69 Coronet quarters are some of the best parts AMD makes. Which makes the decision a little slanted towards replacement. Also thought that if the quarter was off, a full trunk floor could go in...
Posted By: flypaper
Re: Saving sheet metal? - 02/16/13 12:07 AM
Quote:
Noted... I hear the '69 Coronet quarters are some of the best parts AMD makes. Which makes the decision a little slanted towards replacement. Also thought that if the quarter was off, a full trunk floor could go in...
the outer wheelhouses are total garbage.
the quarters are just ok in my book.
if thats thier best 
they are not consistant to each other or to original panels.
one side has a larger lip on it then the other side does.
lets just say, you couldn't pass off amd metal as being original to me,i wouldn't even have to guess on it.
so its not that good. 
Posted By: Silver70
Re: Saving sheet metal? - 02/16/13 08:28 AM
I try and repair wheel houses or section them when possible any more. That's definitely one part that's always a pain to deal with... they never fit right to the quarter. The car I'm working on now has a lot of amd parts. I didn't install the parts, so can't speak on that, but one part was a new roof panel. It's just way too flimsy. It was damaged, but not that bad. Luckily the car gets a v-top, because it would be impossible to get it perfect. Looking back, I'm glad I sectioned in the front and rear openings on my challenger over going with an amd panel.
Posted By: OhioMopar
Re: Saving sheet metal? - 02/16/13 10:56 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Noted... I hear the '69 Coronet quarters are some of the best parts AMD makes. Which makes the decision a little slanted towards replacement. Also thought that if the quarter was off, a full trunk floor could go in...
the outer wheelhouses are total garbage.
the quarters are just ok in my book.
if thats thier best
they are not consistant to each other or to original panels.
one side has a larger lip on it then the other side does.
lets just say, you couldn't pass off amd metal as being original to me,i wouldn't even have to guess on it.
so its not that good.
That's kinda scary. Hmmm. Guess I find someone who is really good at fixing sheet metal. Being a black car, it is going to take someone that has much more skill than I do(none!)
Posted By: Q5_Ed
Re: Saving sheet metal? - 02/16/13 12:51 PM
Take a look at my car, I think this was the right choice for ME. Saving otherwise rust free quarters. There was old work that replaced the wheel lip are that was tucked under, tacked and mudded. I am trying to decide if I should replace wheel tubs? inners are bad, outers wouls need some hours to fix lip area. Easier to replace unless a BIG headache with new AMD? This is a 69 road runner, not coronet...
Anyone work with the road runner wheel tubs??
Ed
Posted By: Q5_Ed
Re: Saving sheet metal? - 02/16/13 12:56 PM
here's a few more, check out the a12mopar site for more in project car section under Chop, cut, rebuild....http://a12mopar.com/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1359492964/30#30
Posted By: Q5_Ed
Re: Saving sheet metal? - 02/16/13 12:59 PM
3. Full AMD floor pan fit well
Posted By: Q5_Ed
Re: Saving sheet metal? - 02/16/13 01:06 PM
this was an old race car if you haven't heard the story, alot of non-rust related surgery required....
Posted By: Q5_Ed
Re: Saving sheet metal? - 02/16/13 01:09 PM
more...
Posted By: Q5_Ed
Re: Saving sheet metal? - 02/16/13 01:12 PM
old work...
Posted By: OhioMopar
Re: Saving sheet metal? - 02/16/13 01:33 PM
Cool car. Mine was just an abused car... It sat for a very long time. Since either '76 or '78. The last registration on the license plate is '76. There is an insurance card in the console from '78.
Posted By: flypaper
Re: Saving sheet metal? - 02/16/13 02:12 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Noted... I hear the '69 Coronet quarters are some of the best parts AMD makes. Which makes the decision a little slanted towards replacement. Also thought that if the quarter was off, a full trunk floor could go in...
the outer wheelhouses are total garbage.
the quarters are just ok in my book.
if thats thier best
they are not consistant to each other or to original panels.
one side has a larger lip on it then the other side does.
lets just say, you couldn't pass off amd metal as being original to me,i wouldn't even have to guess on it.
so its not that good.
That's kinda scary. Hmmm. Guess I find someone who is really good at fixing sheet metal. Being a black car, it is going to take someone that has much more skill than I do(none!)
the differance between me and most people is
i have another superbee/car to compare to at anytime.
most people don't have that luxury.
to make the metal fit close to original requires alot of work.
if i didn't have another car to compare
i would be saying amd fits great like everyone else does
heck, goodmark makes a more accurate looking dutchman panel
then amd does for the bbodies..
Posted By: Q5_Ed
Re: Saving sheet metal? - 02/16/13 02:23 PM
Fly,
Have you heard any feedback on the road runner Outer wheel houses? I would really like to change the inners with new. Outers can be saved, but only if it is a matter of the new outers for rr's being a bad fit?
Ed
Posted By: OhioMopar
Re: Saving sheet metal? - 02/16/13 04:52 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Noted... I hear the '69 Coronet quarters are some of the best parts AMD makes. Which makes the decision a little slanted towards replacement. Also thought that if the quarter was off, a full trunk floor could go in...
the outer wheelhouses are total garbage.
the quarters are just ok in my book.
if thats thier best
they are not consistant to each other or to original panels.
one side has a larger lip on it then the other side does.
lets just say, you couldn't pass off amd metal as being original to me,i wouldn't even have to guess on it.
so its not that good.
That's kinda scary. Hmmm. Guess I find someone who is really good at fixing sheet metal. Being a black car, it is going to take someone that has much more skill than I do(none!)
the differance between me and most people is
i have another superbee/car to compare to at anytime.
most people don't have that luxury.
to make the metal fit close to original requires alot of work.
if i didn't have another car to compare
i would be saying amd fits great like everyone else does
heck, goodmark makes a more accurate looking dutchman panel
then amd does for the bbodies..
Ugh. Want another Bee? This is not confidence inspiring information...
Posted By: RoadRunner
Re: Saving sheet metal? - 02/16/13 07:26 PM
Unfortunately, I am going to have to use the whole quarter. A pretty good hit in a past life has resulted in a quarter made mostly of bondo and an outer wheel house with dents banged out with a sledge hammer.
Posted By: OhioMopar
Re: Saving sheet metal? - 02/16/13 07:35 PM
Ouch.
Posted By: Silver70
Re: Saving sheet metal? - 02/16/13 08:41 PM
Quote:
Fly,
Have you heard any feedback on the road runner Outer wheel houses? I would really like to change the inners with new. Outers can be saved, but only if it is a matter of the new outers for rr's being a bad fit?
Ed
The 69 gtx I'm working on has new outer and for whatever reason the rear half of the inners. I didn't fit them, but it looks likes the outers were modified some on the back lip to quarter. Sliced so they could be reshaped. It also has full amd quarters... which you would think should fit perfect. Otherwise I don't see any major modifications to them.
Posted By: Q5_Ed
Re: Saving sheet metal? - 02/16/13 09:47 PM
Where were they sliced?
Thanks,
Ed
Posted By: Silver70
Re: Saving sheet metal? - 02/16/13 10:20 PM
It was sliced on the lip to remove a little metal and reshape if you know what I mean. Using a cutoff wheel so it was easier to bend and change the shape some.
I find it easier to fix the originals, may take a little more time to section it and fit it flush, but in the end... you keep more original metal and get a better fit. I don't think I've used a new one in the last 5 cars I've done that needed them repaired.
Posted By: flypaper
Re: Saving sheet metal? - 02/17/13 03:37 AM
Quote:
Fly,
Have you heard any feedback on the road runner Outer wheel houses? I would really like to change the inners with new. Outers can be saved, but only if it is a matter of the new outers for rr's being a bad fit?
Ed
Ed
my only experiance is with the dodge wheelhouses
i'm sure you read my story on the a12 board
amd has retooled the dodge out wheelhouses a few times
when they first made it
it was originally made from a 4 door wheelhouse 
they did not know it was different from a 2dr 
i've had my run around with amd over it.
it has been retooled since then.probably a few times
it still sucks.
the main problem with it was the lip was 3/4 of a inch short of the radius of the quarter to mate to it.
we ended up splicing in a lip from a 4 door wheelhouse we had,
so we could extend the wheelhouse lip to make it line up to the quarter lip just like the other car was.
it would be hard to predict what you will find in your car
its hard to really get a grip on it until your knee deep.
the best thing i had going for me was another car for reference.
if i could save the original outers i would by all means.
if its not possible, make the amd fit.
you might have to add or take away metal
somewhere but it will work.
it is alot better then a flat piece of steel and a hammer 