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Painting undercarriage....over restore or not?

Posted By: carcrazyguy

Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? - 01/08/13 11:32 PM

The bodyshop is getting closer to painting the undercarriage on the 70 Duster. I have not decided on how I would like the bottom of the car. For those that have done this in the past, which would you suggest?

Car is FJ5 and these are the two ways I am trying to decide.
Bottom full green treatment (with Lizard skin like material) with only the wheel well areas blacked out.
Or
Bottom of the car gray paint (with Lizard skin like material) so that it appears primer similar to factory appearance. Frame rails green body color and black wheel well area. Similar to the original factory detail.

The car is not going back stock and is not a number matching car so not worried about that.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? - 01/08/13 11:41 PM

I'm a bit biased

Attached picture 7538783-71Duster.jpg
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? - 01/08/13 11:48 PM

Of course it will depend on what kind of car you are building, a restored original or a Hot Rod/Clone, etc. If it's a rarer model I'd keep it as original as possible. IMO the act of painting the bottom of the car to be all new and shiney "Jumped the Shark" a long time ago. A more factory correct look is the current trend that I see more and more these days. To me it looks even more attractive to attempt making them look as they really did. In any event I'd choose between painted and the over sprayed look of my car above, I wouldn't use any kind of Lizzard Skin or other undercoating product, it gives the look of someone trying to hide rust or other ills to most onlookers.

If you are worried about corrosion think about how you plan to drive the car. Most of these cars never see more water than the end of a hose in your driveway to wash them off occasionally, it's not likely the bottom will rot out of it if you don't coat it in some kind of bead liner/POR15/Rust shield product, especially if you do a good job of getting rid of all the rust that is there in the first place and do a proper metal prep before adding a good primer/sealer and quality paint job.

Attached picture 7538792-71Duster2.jpg
Posted By: carcrazyguy

Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? - 01/09/13 12:09 AM

It was originally a /6 car so not likely to ever be worth a whole lot. I may, "may" go with late model 5.7/6.1 when the time comes. Other wise it will be a 408. It will have 4 wheel disc brakes also. So resto mod I guess would cover the build style.



The material the shop was planning to use was similar to lizard skin. He said the name of it, but I was busy looking over the body and parts. So I don't recall the exact name.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? - 01/09/13 12:16 AM

Sounds like a fun build In any event, I'd avoid letting the "shop" spray anything but paint and primer on your car. Have you looked at the work so far? How nice does the work on floor pan look? Sometimes shops cuttimg corners will push some type of textured undercoating etc. to cover up shoddy work on thier part, something to consider.
Posted By: carcrazyguy

Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? - 01/09/13 12:34 AM

Floors are super solid. Texas panhandle car that was factory under coated car also. I have some pics I will post when I get home later this week. The only real rust was a quarter sized spot on each rear quarter and pin holes in the spare tire well.
Posted By: DPelletier

Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? - 01/09/13 12:37 AM

Quote:

Of course it will depend on what kind of car you are building, a restored original or a Hot Rod/Clone, etc. If it's a rarer model I'd keep it as original as possible. IMO the act of painting the bottom of the car to be all new and shiney "Jumped the Shark" a long time ago. A more factory correct look is the current trend that I see more and more these days. To me it looks even more attractive to attempt making them look as they really did. In any event I'd choose between painted and the over sprayed look of my car above, I wouldn't use any kind of Lizzard Skin or other undercoating product, it gives the look of someone trying to hide rust or other ills to most onlookers.

If you are worried about corrosion think about how you plan to drive the car. Most of these cars never see more water than the end of a hose in your driveway to wash them off occasionally, it's not likely the bottom will rot out of it if you don't coat it in some kind of bead liner/POR15/Rust shield product, especially if you do a good job of getting rid of all the rust that is there in the first place and do a proper metal prep before adding a good primer/sealer and quality paint job.






I did paint mine fully underneath and I don't regret it (yet) but I'd probably go with a more stock look if I did another. Whatever I do I will never use bedliner or anything remotely similar and would avoid undercoating as well (except for the wheelwells). I like to be able to see the metal, joints, etc. and don't like anything covering that up.

The OP's car isn't exactly a stock resto, so I'd say "fill your boots" but I'd still avoid the bedliner and similar products...just don't see the need.


Dave
Posted By: 69rrgrabber

Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? - 01/09/13 12:59 AM

Thats a hard question, but the good news is that you can do what you want and not worry about scrubbing the value of your car. It is a good idea to undercoat the wheel wells like factory to avoid chips there, but in the underneath of your car will be fine especially in West Texas. After spending many days scraping the underneath of the car, I was not about to reapply the dealership undercoating to maybe have to scrape again one day. If you don't mind the splotchy primer meathod, then go for it. I hate it but thats my preference - a completely painted surface.
Posted By: cbusters

Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? - 01/09/13 01:40 AM

My B-Body has a primer colored paint on the bottom for protection and then just blow through of the green body color where it was correct. Looks great when the bottom is put together.
Posted By: RoadRunner

Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? - 01/09/13 02:08 AM

I agree with the comments on the lizard skin underside. It always seems to me that you are hiding something. I did the full paint on my first resto. It is an EW1 whte car and looks pretty sanitary underneath. The next project will be more factory correct. I plan on primer grey colored single stage urathane paint underside with color overspray like the factory.
Posted By: carcrazyguy

Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? - 01/09/13 04:53 AM

From what the body man told me. The product he was planning to spray, it would be body color and have a semi smooth texture.

My thought, it must be something similar to what GM used on the rocker panels of cars in the 80'-90's? It was almost unnoticeable until you looked close. Then it looked like it had a bit of an orange peel texture.
Posted By: carcrazyguy

Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? - 01/09/13 05:06 AM

Scott, is your car sprayed (smooth) black on the underside? I only have my phone up here while I am checking on my car. I won't be near my computer until Thursday, to get a better view.
Posted By: Silver70

Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? - 01/09/13 05:34 AM

I used rock-it bed liner on my challenger. Looks like undercoating but will spray clean when washed. I know not everyone likes it, but this car will be driven daily. They like to use tar and chip on the roads here in summer also. So painting it wouldn't be a good option for me. I do like the factory look over paint. Paint looks pretty until its back on the ground and not seen much, so unless it's a show car, I see no point to it.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? - 01/09/13 02:59 PM

Yes my car has a smooth under body. The paint you see is a dark color to simulate the factory dip coating product used at the Los Angeles plant (The LA factory used a product that was dark, almost black, the other plants used a grey colored dip). This was a lower body dip coating material that all cars went through before being primed and painted.

I used an epoxy primer underneath and added the blackish paint over that. The paint has a very similar dull gloss sheen as the original product did. The combo of the two products will do a great job of keeping the metal sealed and protected against any future rust issues and is easy to wipe clean if it gets dirt or grime on it. The car is not an OE show car effort, it's just being painted and detailed to resemble what the factory did in terms of outer body paint coverage.

My car did not come with factory undercoating so just the wheel wells had it. After I install the fuel tank and fuel & brake lines I'll be adding the undercoating to the rear weel wells only and some of the surrounding areas to duplicate what the plant did. Since it's an LA car there was none in the front wells, only the rears. Other plants did all 4 wells.
Posted By: wannadrag

Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? - 01/09/13 03:51 PM

Use the the bedliner unless you want to park it over a mirror and stare at it like some do.
Posted By: DPelletier

Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? - 01/09/13 05:33 PM

Quote:

Use the the bedliner unless you want to park it over a mirror and stare at it like some do.




my car lasted 40 years with nothing but the factory primer underneath and needed only one small floor patch. Given it's "non daily driver" status and the fact that it is fully painted and not winter driven, I calculate that it will last for approximately 100 years this time...Bedliner just isn't needed unless you are planning on mounting up some snow tires or going 4x4ing with your car.

To the OP, yes it sounds like that "lizard skin" is similar to textured rock guard or something similar. I still wouldn't use it as it covers up the detail in the metal as Scott said. Only you can decide what you want, but I stand by contention that a good coat of paint is all that's required for 99% of us with classic cars.




Dave
Posted By: RSNOMO

Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? - 01/09/13 06:43 PM

Quote:

I used rock-it bed liner on my challenger. Looks like undercoating but will spray clean when washed. I know not everyone likes it, but this car will be driven daily. They like to use tar and chip on the roads here in summer also. So painting it wouldn't be a good option for me. I do like the factory look over paint. Paint looks pretty until its back on the ground and not seen much, so unless it's a show car, I see no point to it.




Agree completely...
Posted By: Silver70

Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? - 01/09/13 09:14 PM

Quote:

Bedliner just isn't needed unless you are planning on mounting up some snow tires or going 4x4ing with your car.





I live on a partially black topped driveway. The cost would be too much to finish it to my house and it's basically mud when it rains here. So grab the hose with a nozzle when I wash it and I can spray the underside clean. I have my reasons, no need to go as extreme as snow or offroading In a few months, when the tar and chipping starts, you can't go 5 miles without having to deal with it.
Posted By: DPelletier

Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? - 01/09/13 09:49 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Bedliner just isn't needed unless you are planning on mounting up some snow tires or going 4x4ing with your car.





I live on a partially black topped driveway. The cost would be too much to finish it to my house and it's basically mud when it rains here. So grab the hose with a nozzle when I wash it and I can spray the underside clean. I have my reasons, no need to go as extreme as snow or offroading In a few months, when the tar and chipping starts, you can't go 5 miles without having to deal with it.




They don't do that tar thing here and my driveway is concrete. I don't doubt your solution works for you, my point was (and is) that 99.9% of peoples cars, given their useage, would hold up just fine with a good coat of paint.

I was mainly posting to counter the ridiculous contention by a previous poster that bedliner should be used on all cars except trailered show cars with mirrors underneath.

some people get completely carried away; many of these cars lasted for decades with nothing but a coat of primer underneath....and when they were new, most were daily drivers and not treated with any special care for the first 10 or 20 years of their life.



Dave
Posted By: Silver70

Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? - 01/10/13 08:13 AM

I understand what your saying. My cars underside was getting coated with something and I just thought the bedliner was a good choice... looks better than undercoating, good sound deadner and most of all it's easy to clean.

I've yet to work on an old mopar that wasn't factory undercoated, so I can't really say on how well they hold up without it. My ram however has nothing and being in the north and in the salt, 220k later, other than some rust, it does still look nice on the underside. So maybe it is overkill using a liner. It took me maybe 20 mins to spray the car, so if nothing else, it makes me feel better about it
Posted By: jt4406

Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? - 01/10/13 12:12 PM

I liked the bedliner idea to replace the factory undercoating too, but after checking with the manufacturer of the product I had (duplicolor), reading the directions on the can, and talking with a couple body men around home, all seem to indicate that it may cause recently sprayed paint to lift. Anyone sprayed it on new paint and had it cause problems with the paint coming unglued?

Jess
Posted By: Chilort

Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? - 01/10/13 04:01 PM

1) If you plan on keeping the car then do what you think suits you best. When I do my non-numbers matching Superbee I do plan on using something other than paint. My current DD (a new car) has a textured finish underneath and the stuff is really tough. I like it.
2) If you think you might sell the car in the future, document the snot out of it now. Take pictures of it before you paint the bottom to show what the metal looks like, then after the coating goes on. There shouldn't be any questions.
3) I would think the thicker coatings would also help with road noise.
Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? - 01/10/13 06:21 PM

While I've done a number of vehicles for myself and customers in various forms/finishes, I am partial to the fully painted undercarriage, it looks much more professional, the "factory" oversprayed primer undercarriage while correct for an OEM build just looks like a hack job on a modified/customized car,...for an undercoated car, i much prefer using products like Rustoleums Bedliner in the sprayable gallon formula, it looks like "factory" when applied properly, yet doesn't discolor or absorb greases/oils like the factory stuff did....

Mike
Posted By: Silver70

Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? - 01/10/13 07:11 PM

Quote:

I liked the bedliner idea to replace the factory undercoating too, but after checking with the manufacturer of the product I had (duplicolor), reading the directions on the can, and talking with a couple body men around home, all seem to indicate that it may cause recently sprayed paint to lift. Anyone sprayed it on new paint and had it cause problems with the paint coming unglued?

Jess




I use sem rock-it liner and never had any problems like that.
Posted By: carcrazyguy

Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? - 01/11/13 02:54 AM

Thanks for all the "suggestions"! Still not sure what I am going to do. Leaning towards gray paint (primer look) with undercoating only the wheel well areas.

Anyway here are some updated pics of the car.

Attached picture 7541919-70DusterUnderJan2013.JPG
Posted By: carcrazyguy

Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? - 01/11/13 02:55 AM

The Texas "rusty" trunk floor.

Attached picture 7541920-70DusterTrunkFloorJan2013.JPG
Posted By: carcrazyguy

Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? - 01/11/13 02:56 AM

small area of the firewall....the rusty part!

Attached picture 7541922-70DusterFirewallJan2013.JPG
Posted By: carcrazyguy

Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? - 01/11/13 03:22 AM

After looking over the pics on the computer. I just noticed the area around where the gas tank mounts. Looks like my car had the black "dip".... Maybe I should go back that way, instead of grey?


Yep...VIN confirmed..."E" plant. So yes an LA built car! Black it will be!!
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? - 01/11/13 04:32 AM

Ok, if you want to go with the LA color dip you can get close with this blend:

Take 1qt of Performance ACK-200 (920516) Black and add ½ pt of Performance DX-10-FLT flattener, I believe that’s 4:1.

Of course the best match will be matching a sample of your own surviving dip coat, it's harder to match than most might believe, mine came out really close to my original.
Posted By: carcrazyguy

Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? - 01/11/13 04:56 AM

I will pass the info onto the painter.

The Duster almost ended the career of the painter. The first day on the rotisserie the painter had rolled the car to work on the underside. He walked around to the "roof side" to get a tool. As he was walking back he walked into the trunk hinge arm. It got him right on/in his right eye! He said "luckily I had my eye closed. But as soon as I hit it, I went DOWN. I reacheed up to feel the damage and my eye was watering like it had never watered before and it was bleeding like crazy"! It turned out that he cut his upper eyelid and when got it cleaned up it was just a small cut. Made for a nice black eye though. Thankfully he is doing fine and everthing is normal now except the small war wound on the upper eye lid. He now keeps towels taped around the hinges, JUST IN CASE!!!
Posted By: JMCFAN

Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? - 01/11/13 02:30 PM

Quote:

I will pass the info onto the painter.

The Duster almost ended the career of the painter. The first day on the rotisserie the painter had rolled the car to work on the underside. He walked around to the "roof side" to get a tool. As he was walking back he walked into the trunk hinge arm. It got him right on/in his right eye! He said "luckily I had my eye closed. But as soon as I hit it, I went DOWN. I reacheed up to feel the damage and my eye was watering like it had never watered before and it was bleeding like crazy"! It turned out that he cut his upper eyelid and when got it cleaned up it was just a small cut. Made for a nice black eye though. Thankfully he is doing fine and everthing is normal now except the small war wound on the upper eye lid. He now keeps towels taped around the hinges, JUST IN CASE!!!




Whenever I am working....SAFETY GLASSES!!
Posted By: carcrazyguy

Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? - 01/12/13 02:26 AM

Quote:


Whenever I am working....SAFETY GLASSES!!




Because he thought this pics was funny enough to send to me. I may have to send him a pair of those as a gift!

Attached picture 7543058-70DusterJan2,2013offroadversion.jpg
Posted By: carcrazyguy

Paint suggestions....... - 01/18/13 12:08 AM

Okay, I need to decide on the final details of the paint process for the Duster.

First, what paint process should we use for the hood and the V24 style black out? I know the original organisol is not available from most suppliers (except high end resto suppliers). The painter is saying he would need 3 quarts for the hood and V24 blackout?

Second, the interior door frame would be the same "black" as the hood blackout. But was it just the upper door frame or all the interior door frames? What about the C panel around the back quarter glass?
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