Moparts
'69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color?
Posted By: 70mopes
'69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/17/08 03:37 PM
I have been trying to figure out what the right color would be for my '69 383 roadrunner engine. It is an A/C car built in April of '69 with a Carter carb. From what I understand it could be turquise or orange. Can anybody advise me as to what would be the most correct way to go?
Thanks Moparts!
Posted By: ebodyseast
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/17/08 08:25 PM
70Mopes. Wuz happenin'. First, verify that its the original engine. If so,
check if there's an HP stamping on the engine pad next to engine year & size - & then if there's any evidence of the original engine paint,
that will tell you for sure.
In our discussions here this past year on 1969 & 1970 B/E body 383 4bbl's w/ AC and correct engine color, an original BCS records the engine's designated factory code. Do you have one? It's there on line 4, a 3 digit code. If you found a code, share it here and someone else can tell you what color it was intended to be.
All of Dodge & Plymouth's non-High Performance 383 & 440 4bbl's in 1970 were painted blue - while all HP 383 4bbl's were orange. Lastly, Carter carbs were only installed onto the non-HP 383's. At least, that's what I've been learning here.
There were factors or a matrix then that determined if a HP or non-HP engine was installed when A/C was ordered. What those were is still being researched. So let us know what you find out.
I would wait to hear more from owners of original 1969 RR's just like yours.
Posted By: A12
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/17/08 08:39 PM
TURQUOISE for A/C '69 Road Runner's
Posted By: A12
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/17/08 08:47 PM
Do you have a fender tag? The 3-digit engine code is at the top left second row down, first three digits.
Here's a '69 "survivor" Super Bee (I know it's not a Road Runner) with A/C that has 899 on the fender tag and on the valve cover and it is turquoise and 330 hp instead of the 335 hp Super Bee/RR version.
Posted By: A12
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/17/08 08:50 PM
the fender tag with the engine code 899
Posted By: 6bblgt
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/17/08 10:18 PM
Quote:
TURQUOISE for A/C '69 Road Runner's
The 3 digit number on the fender tag applies to "A" Lynch Rd. cars only, but the same number will be on any '69 b'cast sheet.
All '69 383 4bbl engines used a Carter AVS carb.
Posted By: rrunner
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/17/08 10:45 PM
Quote:
Do you have a fender tag? The 3-digit engine code is at the top left second row down, first three digits.
Here's a '69 "survivor" Super Bee (I know it not a Road Runner) with A/C that has 899 on the fender tag and on the valve cover and it is turquoise and 330 hp instead of the 335 hp Super Bee/RR version.
Mike,
Do you have a entire engine bay shot of this car? I would like to see all the a/c lines/hoses Thanks
Posted By: A12
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/17/08 10:53 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Do you have a fender tag? The 3-digit engine code is at the top left second row down, first three digits.
Here's a '69 "survivor" Super Bee (I know it not a Road Runner) with A/C that has 899 on the fender tag and on the valve cover and it is turquoise and 330 hp instead of the 335 hp Super Bee/RR version.
Mike,
Do you have a entire engine bay shot of this car? I would like to see all the a/c lines/hoses Thanks
I think I do but for now I know I have pieces-parts of the engine bay if this will help?
1
Posted By: A12
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/17/08 10:55 PM
A/C 2
Posted By: A12
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/17/08 10:57 PM
A/C 3
Posted By: rrunner
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/17/08 11:04 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Do you have a fender tag? The 3-digit engine code is at the top left second row down, first three digits.
Here's a '69 "survivor" Super Bee (I know it not a Road Runner) with A/C that has 899 on the fender tag and on the valve cover and it is turquoise and 330 hp instead of the 335 hp Super Bee/RR version.
Mike,
Do you have a entire engine bay shot of this car? I would like to see all the a/c lines/hoses Thanks
I think I do but for now I know I have pieces-parts of the engine bay if this will help?
1
Yes, Thanks! 
The only other thing I would need to see is the discharge hose ( compressor to condensor).
Posted By: A12
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/17/08 11:17 PM
A/C 4
Posted By: A12
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/17/08 11:18 PM
A/C 5
Posted By: A12
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/17/08 11:19 PM
A/C 6
Posted By: A12
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/17/08 11:21 PM
Quote:
Yes, Thanks! The only other thing I would need to see is the discharge hose ( compressor to condensor).
Have to dig somewhere else, may take a while?
MikeR
Posted By: A12
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/17/08 11:23 PM
Not as long as I thought...
Posted By: A12
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/17/08 11:25 PM
A/C 8
Posted By: A12
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/17/08 11:29 PM
A/C 9
That may be all????
MikeR
Posted By: 70mopes
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/17/08 11:56 PM
Thanks to all for your inputs. My data plate does not show the information some of you mentioned - it was build at the St. Louis plant (G code on the VIN). I do not have the original engine with this car however I do have a correct 69 HP 383 block I was going to run. I am a bit confused though. I see that in '69 you could get the magnum 383 (330HP) and the Roadrunner 383 (335HP). Would a roadrunner with A/C have had a 330HP magnum put in it? and if so, was this always the case?
I am now thinking for my application that I would use a non HP 383 block with a turqoise paint job with a magnum 383 pie tin instead of a roadrunner 383 tin? I was going to use a dual snorker as well... this seems weird that roadrunners would not ALL come with a 'roadrunner 383" engine A/C or not.... hmmmmm.
I have gone from wondering what color to paint my engine to which engine type to run, which air cleaner and which pie tin.... wow.
Does anybody out there have an original '69 roadrunner with A/C that came with an HP block, a dual snorkel air cleaner and runs the '383 roadrunner" pie tin?
Posted By: DPelletier
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/18/08 12:05 AM
As Mike (A12) said in his first post; the pics he showed were for a SB with A/C, not a RR. No 383 Magnum in a RR and both 383hp's (RR and SB) were 335hp. The 330hp motors were also used depending how the car was equipped. A RR with a 383 and AC would have likely come with the 330hp motor (not called a Magnum). Forget the Magnum thing, it's just a Dodge version of the Commando/Super Commando.
My guess is a non hp, turquoise, carter equipped 383 with the roadrunner pie tin is correct for your car and without a broadcast sheet, a Lynch rd. fender tag (not applicable to you) or the original motor, that's as correct as you will get.
....I hope that makes some sence; if not, someone smarter'n me will chime in shortly!
Cheers,
Dave
Posted By: topside
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/18/08 04:22 AM
Owned 2 original, #s, St.Louis '69 RRs with A/C. Turquoise 330-horse, RR pie tin, dual snorkels. Every original #s '69 RR with A/C, regardless of trans, that I researched at the time had the turquoise 330 motor, not the orange 335. Every non-A/C '69 383 I've seen, and I mean hundreds, was the orange 335. The small unsilenced air cleaner was a orange/335 setup, and the dual snorkel was for turquoise/330 motors. Carter carbs on every original '69 RR 383 I've seen, though different model #s depending on trans, A/C, Calif & high altitude (Denver for example). Calif & high-altitude carbs had one central mixture screw. The RR pie tin fits both air cleaners, as did the other pie tins. Magnum was the Dodge marketing name, as previously stated, and would not be found on a Plymouth except by error.
For what it's worth, I've found that some '68s & '69s ran stronger than others, and not necessarily related to the 330/335 rating. For example, my A/C car was stronger than one of my non-A/C cars, and except for the A/C, seats & color they were basically identical. The 335 car "should" have been quicker, but wasn't. My St.Louis-built '68 was quicker & more responsive than my L.A.-built '68 car, too.
Posted By: SomeCarGuy
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/18/08 07:17 PM
I'm wanting to think that the A/C cars had one with a smaller cam, to help with torque to spin the compressor. That would account for the slightly smaller HP rating.
I don't think it was listed as 330 either in the RR, even if it were different. The marketing numbers staed the same.
Posted By: 69superbee383
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/18/08 07:33 PM
I have a 69 bee with AC and the 899 engine. The engine is turquoise and it came with a 383 four barrel pie tin vs. the 383 magnum one. The block is not stamped HP. Also the carb was a Holley and not a Carter from the factory. It also has a different transmission as well at least by part number to the non ac cars.
Posted By: copchaser
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/18/08 07:39 PM
I just sold a very origanal 69 Coronet 500, 383HP auto with A/C. It is a numbers matching car, the engine is turquos, and is stamped HP. From what I have found is that the A/C and non A/C engines have the same cam, just a differant distributors, something about the advance curve. A simple look through a factory parts book shows (1) cam number for HP engines, and lots of choices for carbs, and distributors. I have a friend who bought a 70 Challenger 383hp A/C new and still has it. It always has been a dog, I talked him into changing the distributor and wow!! the car is alive and has never run stronger.
Posted By: 6bblgt
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/18/08 07:46 PM
Technically the 383HP wasn't available in the '69 Coronet 500.
... so besides a "HP" stamp, what evidence do you have to support that claim?
B'cast sheet and or Lynch Rd. fender tag numbers?
Posted By: rrunner
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/18/08 09:29 PM
So is the 899 383 stamped HP or not?
Posted By: 69superbee383
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/19/08 12:46 AM
Well I can tell you my 899 engine is not. Numbers matching and I bought the car from the original owner. Engine assy date is stamped 12 2
Posted By: A12
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/19/08 01:19 AM
The spec ad for the 330 hp vs 335 hp 383 engine shows a 200 rpm difference; 330 @ 5000 rpm vs 335 @ 5200 with the same torque but again the 330 hp engine has the max torque 425 lb/ft @ 3200 rpm and the 335 hp's max torque is 425 lb/ft @ 3400 rpm.
It also reads the 335 hp engine has a "high lift, high performance camshaft and a windage tray", where the 330 hp engine lists a "standard camshaft" and no mention of a windage tray. I also thought the 383 HP engine got a different intake manifold from the 440 HP engine?
MikeR
330 hp, 383 specs:
Posted By: A12
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/19/08 01:22 AM
the 335 hp, 383 specs:
Posted By: 6bblgt
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/19/08 03:00 AM
Quote:
I also thought the 383 HP engine got a different intake manifold from the 440 HP engine?
Intake manifolds are not interchangeable between "B" engine (383) & "RB" engine (440)
All '69 383 4bbl intake manifolds are the same.
Posted By: RoadRunnerJD
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/19/08 03:23 AM
I wonder if you could get the chrome exhaust tips with the 330 horse 383?
Posted By: 69superbee383
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/19/08 04:42 AM
My Bee came with turned down tips stock. I know in 70 they were an option not sure about 69. I do know mine has them now..original or not
Posted By: 69CoronetRT
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/19/08 05:16 AM
Quote:
Technically the 383HP wasn't available in the '69 Coronet 500.
... so besides a "HP" stamp, what evidence do you have to support that claim?
B'cast sheet and or Lynch Rd. fender tag numbers?
Dan, I'm not sure what you mean by 'technically', but a 383 four speed 500 would have the HP assembly.
I agree you'd need tag or BS proof for an A/C car to have the HP assembly.
Posted By: 69CoronetRT
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/19/08 05:18 AM
Quote:
So is the 899 383 stamped HP or not?
No.
Posted By: stateline
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/19/08 05:26 AM
Quote:
Quote:
So is the 899 383 stamped HP or not?
No.
What is the 900 383 cid then ?
Posted By: 69CoronetRT
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/19/08 05:36 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
So is the 899 383 stamped HP or not?
No.
What is the 900 383 cid then ?
I've seen 900 used for a late built Charger automatic no air.
Posted By: A12
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/19/08 05:48 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
So is the 899 383 stamped HP or not?
No.
What is the 900 383 cid then ?
I've seen 900 used for a late built Charger automatic no air.
925 = 383 4bbl, 4-speed, heater (RM/WM)
926 = 383 4bbl, automatic, heater (RM/WM)
Is this correct?
Posted By: 69CoronetRT
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/19/08 06:18 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
So is the 899 383 stamped HP or not?
No.
What is the 900 383 cid then ?
I've seen 900 used for a late built Charger automatic no air.
925 = 383 4bbl, 4-speed, heater (RM/WM)
926 = 383 4bbl, automatic, heater (RM/WM)
Is this correct?
Yes but you'll find 925 in non RRs and SBs (e.g. WP, RP, XP)
Posted By: AZ_A12_BEE
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/19/08 02:00 PM
Doug, I know turquoise is correct but I cant put a motor that color in my 500 383/4bbl/ac vert, The car is not stock so orange is what Im going with, 95% of the people wont know anyways
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Posted By: AZ_A12_BEE
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/19/08 02:01 PM
Quote:
I wonder if you could get the chrome exhaust tips with the 330 horse 383?
I didnt see it as an option for my H code 500 but I could be wrong, Im putting some on anyways
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/19/08 03:12 PM
This is my 1969 Coronet 440 (6 pass wagon). This is the original engine, dirty but other than minor external wear items it's original. Block is not stamped HP but otherwise looks just like an HP engine with the same heads, intake, exhaust manifolds, even an 054 radiator!.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/19/08 03:13 PM
This is the engine it has
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/19/08 03:14 PM
Fender tag
Posted By: 6bblgt
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/19/08 04:50 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Technically the 383HP wasn't available in the '69 Coronet 500.
... so besides a "HP" stamp, what evidence do you have to support that claim?
B'cast sheet and or Lynch Rd. fender tag numbers?
Dan, I'm not sure what you mean by 'technically', but a 383 four speed 500 would have the HP assembly.
I agree you'd need tag or BS proof for an A/C car to have the HP assembly.
I should've made the statement stand on its own ... it was a response to "copchaser's" claim.
The 383HP (335hp) wasn't available in the '69 Coronet 500 with an automatic and/or A/C.
Posted By: 69superbee383
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/21/08 07:20 AM
My bee has the 054 radiator as well. Came with the A 35 trailer tow package. I also have the " 383 four barrel " pie tin instead of the Magnum but have the un silenced air cleaner which the original owner said came factory on it. Also the black breather cap not chrome.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/21/08 07:42 AM
Quote:
I also have the " 383 four barrel " pie tin instead of the Magnum but have the un silenced air cleaner which the original owner said came factory on it. Also the black breather cap not chrome.
Mines exactly the same (black Oil Cap, "383 Four Barrel" tin. The duel snorkel) AC may have been a California deal, part of some lame noise reduction attempt? Tough to say but my car was an LA build car so it makes sense.
Posted By: topside
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/21/08 05:57 PM
Scott -
Yup, dual snorkel was part of the Noise Reduction Pkg as far as I can tell. Was on my '70 383 4bbl Satellite (not orange) motor. Supposedly the chrome tips were N/A as part of that same pkg; legend has it that no CA cars had tips, but the 1st '68 Hemi RR in L.A. (which a high-school friend had - nice parents, huh?!) had them. Neither of my '68 383 RRs came with tips, one L.A.-built, one St.Louis and originally delivered to Denver.
Posted By: A12
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/21/08 06:41 PM
Quote:
Scott -
Yup, dual snorkel was part of the Noise Reduction Pkg as far as I can tell. Was on my '70 383 4bbl Satellite (not orange) motor. Supposedly the chrome tips were N/A as part of that same pkg; legend has it that no CA cars had tips, but the 1st '68 Hemi RR in L.A. (which a high-school friend had - nice parents, huh?!) had them. Neither of my '68 383 RRs came with tips, one L.A.-built, one St.Louis and originally delivered to Denver.
Even non-California '68 383 Road Runner's did NOT get the tips. The tips were only available on the Hemi RR for some reason......I haven't found any info that said they were available on the late '68 RR RM23's with the decor option but I'm going to put them on my '68 RR (RM23) because they make the car sound soooooo much better.....
Posted By: pushbutton
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/21/08 07:26 PM
you never get too old to learn,i had always thought all 69 rr had 335 hp orange motors. oh well live and learn
Posted By: 474218
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/21/08 07:29 PM
I was under the impression that the Chrome Tips came on all 69 RR's equiped with the A-87 Decor Group, except those built for (not in) California. All cars built for California came with the turn down pipes. Additionally all cars built for California came with the unsilenced Duel Snorkel Air Cleaner.
Posted By: A12
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/21/08 08:01 PM
Quote:
I was under the impression that the Chrome Tips came on all 69 RR's equiped with the A-87 Decor Group, except those built for (not in) California. All cars built for California came with the turn down pipes. Additionally all cars built for California came with the unsilenced Duel Snorkel Air Cleaner.
This is true for the '69 RR (except I think you meant "Silenced" Duel Snorkel?) but the '68 383 RR did Not get the chrome tips in any State, just the Hemi engined RR got the tips.
Posted By: cornucopia
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/22/08 03:50 AM
Quote:
Fender tag
didn't the 383-4 and 383-magnum(super-bee and RR) BOTH use E63 on the fender tag?? was the only specified definition between the two engines on the build sheet??
Posted By: 69CoronetRT
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/22/08 04:48 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Fender tag
didn't the 383-4 and 383-magnum(super-bee and RR) BOTH use E63 on the fender tag?? was the only specified definition between the two engines on the build sheet??
Yes and they all used H as the VIN code. That's what causes confusion.
All A, B, & C body 383-4bbls code the same way.
Many sources cite the 'H' as the HP code when in fact the car may not have the HP assembly.
The only way to tell which assembly the car recieved is via the BS or a Lynch Road fender tag.
Posted By: 1_WILD_RT
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/22/08 04:58 AM
Quote:
I was under the impression that the Chrome Tips came on all 69 RR's equiped with the A-87 Decor Group, except those built for (not in) California. All cars built for California came with the turn down pipes. Additionally all cars built for California came with the unsilenced Duel Snorkel Air Cleaner.
I keep seeing the No tips in California posted...I know it's true of a very few models like 70 440-6 equipt E bodies...But for the most part Mopar Muscle here in California back in the late sixties & early seventies got tips... My 68 Coronet R/T originally sold in Fremont had tips...My 69 Roadrunner A87 Coupe sold in Turlock had tips...My 70 Challenger R/T S.E. sold in Patterson...Tips...
Posted By: RoadRunnerJD
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/22/08 11:00 PM
Quote:
Quote:
I also have the " 383 four barrel " pie tin instead of the Magnum but have the un silenced air cleaner which the original owner said came factory on it. Also the black breather cap not chrome.
Mines exactly the same (black Oil Cap, "383 Four Barrel" tin. The duel snorkel) AC may have been a California deal, part of some lame noise reduction attempt? Tough to say but my car was an LA build car so it makes sense.
I think the dual snorkel was probably because it's not a Road Runner or Super Bee but this brings up another question. I think all the high performance B-bodies and A-bodies came with a chrome oil breather? It was the only dress up in the engine compartment. Maybe yours is black because it's a 330 horse SW? Now I wonder if the 330 horse 383 Super Bees, RoadRunner's and Charger R/T's with air had a black oil cap? My 340S Barracuda with air has a black cap but I don't know if it's the original but it's a very unmolested car? I'm going to put a chrome one on it.
Posted By: topside
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/23/08 01:28 AM
The RR/GTX/RT/SB motors were supposed to get chrome caps according to factory literature, but some came through with black. Non-performance motors were supposed to get the standard black caps. The dual-snorkel air cleaner would be Noise Reduction Package performance motors from what I can tell on original cars (with the 330-horse 383s and 350-horse 440s apparently getting them too). The small unsilenced air cleaner was the "performance" unit otherwise. My '69 RR A/C car had the dual snorkel type but my non-A/C RRs had the small one; these were original unmolested cars. All my RRs & R/Ts had chrome oil caps, even that A/C car, which had the 330 motor. My '70 383 4bbl Satellite had a black cap.
I'm sure there were occasional exceptions to the air cleaner & filler cap "rules".
Posted By: Promopar
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/25/08 05:07 AM
I have never seen an origional 69-70 road runner engine that was not an HP, and orange.
I have seen several origional 69 and 70 a/c automatic road runners with orange HP engines,
and even have a late 69' 383 a/c auto block in my garage that is an HP and has origional orange paint.
Because of this, I think you would be safe to paint it orange and use the HP block, but I am not an expert.
Posted By: Promopar
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/25/08 08:28 PM
Actually, I just found some pictures of the blue 330 horse engines in 69' road runners for sale on the internet that do look origional.
Posted By: 69Cuda340S
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/25/08 09:20 PM
Quote:
My 340S Barracuda with air has a black cap but I don't know if it's the original but it's a very unmolested car?
The 340 cars always got the black caps.
Posted By: Promopar
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/26/08 12:40 AM
According to this website, the engine code on your fender tag should show you which engine you should have in the car.
The "E63" code would be the 330 horse version.
The "E65" code would be the 335 HP.
http://www.stockmopar.com/how-to-decode-a-1969-1974-fender-tag-part-1.htmlMine is a 69' road runner with auto and a/c and is an E63, making the case for the blue engine.
(Origional is missing)
Posted By: 6bblgt
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/26/08 12:59 AM
The list of "E" codes on that site are almost humorous.
I believe E65 is used for all 383 4bbl in '71 only, 383HP was 300hp NET.
Posted By: Promopar
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/26/08 02:24 AM
Yeah, you are correct.
This website shows that all 383 RR engines in 69' would have been E63, either variety.
http://www.genocide2600.com/~traviso/mml/bodydecode.html#eThe "Charger Road Runner & Super Bee Restoration Guide" by Paul Herd (1994) shows E62 as the regular 383 4bl for 1969, but does not list the E63 in the appendix.
Posted By: topside
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/26/08 05:02 AM
That Paul Herd book has so many errors & misleading photos in it that it's totally unreliable as a source of accurate and/or correct information.
Posted By: Promopar
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/27/08 02:27 AM
I'm not saying that this book is the mopar holy gail, but it is one of the most comprehensive of the very few B-body restoration books available, and has had an influence on most factory restorations completed since its publishing.
The book also says on page 23,
"A few 383/335hp V-8's were painted turquoise when equipped with air conditioning."
Again on page 29,
"Note that some 1969 and 1970 383s in
air-conditioned Super Bees and Road Runners were painted Turquoise."
On page 40 (picture caption)
"Cars sold in California in 1969 used a dual snorkel air cleaner with the high performance 383ci and 440ci powerplants."
Posted By: 6bblgt
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/27/08 03:57 AM
Quote:
I'm not saying that this book is the mopar holy gail, but it is one of the most comprehensive of the very few B-body restoration books available, and has had an influence on most factory restorations completed since its publishing.
The book also says on page 23,
"A few 383/335hp V-8's were painted turquoise when equipped with air conditioning."
Again on page 29,
"Note that some 1969 and 1970 383s in
air-conditioned Super Bees and Road Runners were painted Turquoise."
On page 40 (picture caption)
"Cars sold in California in 1969 used a dual snorkel air cleaner with the high performance 383ci and 440ci powerplants."
YOU ARE KIDDING, RIGHT?? 
Quote:
I'm not saying that this book is the mopar holy gail, but it is one of the most comprehensive of the very few B-body restoration books available, and has had an influence on most factory restorations completed since its publishing.
None that I've had any part in. Was warned against it many moons ago & if your examples are proof of how good it is, then the warning was well deserved.
Quote:
The book also says on page 23,
"A few 383/335hp V-8's were painted turquoise when equipped with air conditioning."
If you have been following this thread, you can see that the 383HP/335hp engine with A/C is mythical. Please provide proof that this combo existed in '68 and/or '69.
Quote:
Again on page 29,
"Note that some 1969 and 1970 383s in
air-conditioned Super Bees and Road Runners were painted Turquoise."
1969 - all SB and RR with A/C were turquois & 1970 - all SB and RR with A/C were orange.
(exceptions would be "factory mistakes" & not the norm, proof would be the responsibility of the owner/restorer)
Quote:
On page 40 (picture caption)
"Cars sold in California in 1969 used a dual snorkel air cleaner with the high performance 383ci and 440ci powerplants."
Poor choice of wording or taken out of context.
All '70 model year b-bodies w/single 4bbl carb. w/o a fresh air hood (N96) sold in California during Sept. - Dec '69 had a dual snorkel air cleaner. 
Posted By: Promopar
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/27/08 05:03 AM
Look, I mean no disrespect, and I expect none in return.
If I show you a picture of a car that is supposedly "unrestored" you can easily claim that the color was changed like this one.
http://www.carsolina.com/ss3.htmWhat indisputable evidence would be required to have proof of something like this? I do not claim to know. I am just putting forth literature on the issue, which is what this forum is for, correct?
Posted By: A12
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/27/08 06:32 AM
Quote:
Look, I mean no disrespect, and I expect none in return.
If I show you a picture of a car that is supposedly "unrestored" you can easily claim that the color was changed like this one.
http://www.carsolina.com/ss3.htm
What indisputable evidence would be required to have proof of something like this? I do not claim to know. I am just putting forth literature on the issue, which is what this forum is for, correct?
The RR in the link you posted is not an unrestored car; many of the nuts and bolts and wire harness clamps have body color paint on them , the throttle cable clamp almost looks turquois or silver and not engine orange? The washer bottle is not original, no engine paint on the battery ground cable............
Posted By: 69CoronetRT
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/27/08 07:53 AM
Quote:
What indisputable evidence would be required to have proof of something like this?
A broadast sheet or a Lynch road fender tags that shows the HP assembly and the A/C.
Posted By: AZ_A12_BEE
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/27/08 03:57 PM
Anybody notice that the correct clutch on a 69 383 with A/C is smaller than one on a 440 car?
Posted By: DPelletier
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/27/08 04:09 PM
Quote:
Look, I mean no disrespect, and I expect none in return.
If I show you a picture of a car that is supposedly "unrestored" you can easily claim that the color was changed like this one.
http://www.carsolina.com/ss3.htm
What indisputable evidence would be required to have proof of something like this? I do not claim to know. I am just putting forth literature on the issue, which is what this forum is for, correct?
Like Doug said; a Lynch road fender tag or a broadcast sheet showing the A/C option and the 335hp motor. That's the ONLY way to provide proof.
No disrespect intended, but here's a friendly pce of wisdom to a Moparts newbie that it took me 5000 posts to learn: Doug, Dan and Mike know what they are talking about.....trust me.
Dave
Posted By: cdp
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/27/08 04:36 PM
This is my 69 SE 383/330 Charger with A/C. No HP stamping. This is a #'s car and has been in the same family for 20 years prior to me buying it. The air cleaner is also original with a red "383-4 barrel" pie tin.
Posted By: 6bblgt
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/27/08 05:29 PM
Quote:
Look, I mean no disrespect, and I expect none in return.
No disrespect intended, I tried to inject enough Graemlins to lighten the spirit of my reply to your post. Nothing personal.
It was/is more a "disrespect" of the "RESTORATION GUIDE".
I am envious of Mr. Herds abilities/time/connections to complete a book project & get it published, not impressed by the accuracy of the book.
& alot has changed as far as perceived "correctness" since 1994.
Posted By: 69CoronetRT
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/28/08 02:20 AM
Quote:
Look, I mean no disrespect, and I expect none in return.
If I show you a picture of a car that is supposedly "unrestored" you can easily claim that the color was changed like this one.
http://www.carsolina.com/ss3.htm
What indisputable evidence would be required to have proof of something like this? I do not claim to know. I am just putting forth literature on the issue, which is what this forum is for, correct?
James, many people new to the hobby rely on Herd's restoration book. After time, you come to realize how many mistakes are in the book. It would be more of a service to the hobby if the publishers stopped printing the book and prevent more confusion.
One advantage message boards have over books is the collective information from lots of people and their ability to post supporting documentation. Books don't have the ability to offer the volumes of documentation that a message board can.
The engine color, tranny and A/C question comes up often. Here are two threads that were productive:
383-tranny thread #1
Thread #2
Posted By: Promopar
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/28/08 03:56 AM
Thanks,
on that topic, what are some of the best sources of information on proper mopar b-body restorations?
Posted By: ebodyseast
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/28/08 04:21 AM
You've already found some of the best sources...right here.
Just keep presenting any future B body resto questions here to the forum.
Posted By: topside
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/28/08 04:49 PM
This is why Survivor Cars are so important.
Posted By: cdp
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/28/08 05:38 PM
What happen to all the people that worked at the engine assembly plants? Has anyone ever talked to someone who worked the engine line?
It would be nice to know the assembly process of when the A/C units met up with the engine and how they new that turquise motors got the A/C and orange motors didn't., etc,.
We hear from assembly line workers, but I've never seen any conversation of the engine facility workers. Where are you all hiding?
Posted By: DPelletier
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/28/08 06:25 PM
Quote:
What happen to all the people that worked at the engine assembly plants? Has anyone ever talked to someone who worked the engine line?
It would be nice to know the assembly process of when the A/C units met up with the engine and how they new that turquise motors got the A/C and orange motors didn't., etc,.
We hear from assembly line workers, but I've never seen any conversation of the engine facility workers. Where are you all hiding?
I thought that was what the broadcast sheets were used for. Where are they? A good many are probably dead by now.
Dave
Posted By: Chi_Town_Runner
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/28/08 07:19 PM
Quote:
Where are they? A good many are probably dead by now.
Ouch!!!!
Thanks Dave,
You just made me re-realize the facts of life. When you get old....your gonna die.
I didn't work in the auto industry, but I was old enough to in '68.
Glad to still be here.
Frank
Posted By: cdp
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/28/08 08:11 PM
I'm sure there were plenty of 20 somethings working the lines in 69-70, etc. That would make them late 50-early 60's. They ain't all dead.
I've talked to a few line workers that are in the hobby. Just never any engine people.
Posted By: DPelletier
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/28/08 08:16 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Where are they? A good many are probably dead by now.
Ouch!!!!
Thanks Dave,
You just made me re-realize the facts of life. When you get old....your gonna die.
I didn't work in the auto industry, but I was old enough to in '68.
Glad to still be here.
Frank
...I'm glad you're still here too! I hope I didn't strike a nerve. Truth is, I'm not exactly a spring chicken anymore either.
Dave
Posted By: 474218
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/28/08 09:39 PM
Quote:
What happen to all the people that worked at the engine assembly plants? Has anyone ever talked to someone who worked the engine line?
It would be nice to know the assembly process of when the A/C units met up with the engine and how they new that turquise motors got the A/C and orange motors didn't., etc,.
We hear from assembly line workers, but I've never seen any conversation of the engine facility workers. Where are you all hiding?
I think you would find that the air conditioning system, including the compressor, was part of the body and attached to the engine after installation in the body/frame.
Posted By: DodgeMaterial
Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? - 11/28/08 10:45 PM
Quote:
Quote:
What happen to all the people that worked at the engine assembly plants? Has anyone ever talked to someone who worked the engine line?
It would be nice to know the assembly process of when the A/C units met up with the engine and how they new that turquise motors got the A/C and orange motors didn't., etc,.
We hear from assembly line workers, but I've never seen any conversation of the engine facility workers. Where are you all hiding?
I think you would find that the air conditioning system, including the compressor, was part of the body and attached to the engine after installation in the body/frame.
Not correct. All accessories (P/S, Alt, AC, belts, hoses,fan...) were added (and still are) in the engine build-up line...prior to body drop. What plant(s) did you see the A/C compressor added in-car?