air grabber difference 383-440

Not so much the filter, the underlying reason that the air grabber base is the same short 2 inch measurement on the 71 and 72 340 and 440 equipped engines is because Chrysler started using the taller sitting thermoquad carb with thicker base. AVS carb sits shorter, thus the taller base was OK.

dont know about that terry

that air cleaner was used in 1970, a year before the t-quad was used in 71 on the 340 only

i know in 72 it was used on the 400, too
but even in 72 a 440 hp used a holley

in 70-1 the 383 both had holleys
and 70-1 440 HPs had avs carbs

i believe, and im sure you know for sure almighty shaker expert that you are that the 71 340 did use a different shaker basplate then the 70 340 to allow for the t-quads height,

but maybe it wasnt as critical on the air grabber as the seal to the base was somewhat flexible??

Tony
The 70-72 freshair base application shouldn't be confusing as only two were used.
But as I am sure you know, the 70-71 parts book has errors claiming 3512765 is freshair base for BJRW when in fact it is 70 E body 340 shaker only.
They only list one base number, 3418709 for freshair 440 B-body 1971, no mention of a 383 number unless there is a 70-71 book that gives it, or I am missing it.
I had both in NOS at one time but I cant recall the taller base part number.
My 72 book shows no air cleaner listings in 14-29-9 so thats no help.
I'll be the first to admit that I am not familiar with all the carb applications alluded to in the parts books used on 70-72 B-BODY and whether or not the different ones actually were used in production but I know you are an expert in that field as you been involved with many.
I was mainly basing my above statement on height, from this partial Fram print that I dug up.
This was the info supplied to Fram that they deigned the shorter base around.
Note the part number 3577491 will not appear in any parts book as this was an assembly... base, lid and filter shipped to the car assembly plant.

terry

so if im reading the document you posted correctly

it shows that the t-quad and avs ARE the same height, is that correct?

because the avs was used on both 69 383 and 440 motors

and im sure that the small round air filter is taller, than the large oval air filter, i havent measured them but id guess about an inch different in height, which therefore would explain the height difference in the base

i did just measure a t-quad and ave and they are the same height from the bottom to the surface where the air ceaner sits, so the carbs are the same height

i remember years ago when ken s was at my place looking at 340 shaker baseplates and i thought he was telling me how he thought the 71 tquad base was a different height then the 70 avs base

I used to have a '68 Coronet 500 convertible with a 383 in it and I had a '69 Ramcharger hood on it. I ran both the oval and round fresh air cleaners on it at various times. Never had a problem with clearance. It was a stock H-code engine with the AVS.

One size fits all...

Does anyone know how to tell on the 70-72 air cleaner base if it is a repop or original ? Really would like to know before I bite the bullet.
Thanks!
Dave

Originals have these steel tubes for drain hoses....I've never seen the repro version so I dont know if they have these drains.

If in fact the reproduction bases have the tubes I doubt they are crudely brazed on like Fram did when they assembled originals.

Good topic!

Anyone know how far out the drain hoses are supposed to go? I have to put new hoses on mine and don't have a schematic on where/how far they go.

has anybody used the fit all base? i would like to use the rpm performer with the air grabber, but don't know if it will fit? thanks

Me too I loved that intake on my old car. So chime in if you can run a air grabber with a 440 and RPM intake please and what or how you did it.

Who sells these bases?

What determined a pie tin for a 383 ramcharger or a oval tin?

nobody has tryed the fit all air grabber base? i have pm'd the poster that sells them, but hasn't returned my email? thanks moparts

I tried the base but it did not work, even with the performer intake. However, I also used a 1/3 inch heat insulator gasket under the Edelbrock AVS Thunder carb so maybe that was the reason. I am pretty sure you cannot fit a performer RPM intake under a stock hood under any circumstances. There are other threads on this, maybe someone else can comment.

anyone tryed a rpm intake with a holley hp under a airgrabber hood? i know somebody has gotton this combo to work as many rpm's that are sold someone has come up with something!!! thanks moparts

Just an update. Indeed, it turned out that the "One size fits all (within reason - and these reasons are vetted over the phone when an order is being placed)" base I was selling did not fit the RPM intake. When I interface with customers with unordinary circumstances, it is always my approach to inform them of my policy concerning applications I have yet to encounter; those which I am not certain about. My policy is to guarantee 100% of the purchase price back if a part doesn't work, once I have decided whether or not I want to pursue a modified version to fit their application. Generally I want pictures to show what I can do to make it work, or at least why it isn't working if they are having a problem. These instances are getting rarer and rarer after eight years of making air cleaner parts for various Mopars.

A lot of times, things are dealt with on a case by case basis. Cooperation of a customer is essential to my r&d and in the end they get a brand new base if the first doesn't work (and generally, I don't ask for the first one to be sent back to me - pics work well enough). The trade off for the customer is an order that sometimes drags on for months as this is a side gig for me and I do my best. On the other hand, if something is mentioned that leads me to question whether or not my part will work with the configuration I am presented with, I will state my concern and let the buyer make up his mind. In these cases, if the part is modified at all, it is not returnable (unless I express an interest in seeing if it will work - in which case I may waive that rule and/or any applicable restock fee).

Sometimes I sell bases that I doubt or even know with certainty will not fit without modification by the customer, but those cases are clearly discussed upfront and the customer understands I will not accept any sort of modified return. An example of this fresh on my mind would be a guy ordering a couple of different bases to use as a starting point for a shaker Dakota.

So back to this pesky RPM intake.... the solution was to give the perimeter of the carb opening a huge drop, while maintaining the outwardly stock appearance of an Air Grabber base plate when using either an oval (K&N E-1980 preferable) OR round(14"diameter, 3"" tall round with X-Stream lid preferable) (both filters work on this base! - though the round has more surface area). The problem I knew from the start was the immediate air availability since the carb would be shoved up so close to the underside of the oval air cleaner lid. So to help make up for that, I leveled the top peaks that surround the carb on the base and dialed in the drop to be no more than was absolutely necessary.

IT WORKED! The gentleman who helped me with r&d on this project claims there was just about an inch between the top of the lid and the hood once the hood was closed, so that unfortunately means we cannot use a 3" tall filter with Air Grabber/stock, or at least non-functionally hood scooped cars. The 2" tall oval filter must be retained, so Fram and K&N 2" tall filters are the only options here aside from 3" tall round 14" filters. It is also important to disclose that configurations with spacers and thick gaskets are untested and not guaranteed (worth a try if 1/2" or less - but on your dime if it doesn't fit). Clearancing is necessary on the bottom side to make room for Holley fuel bowl screws, and be careful not to cut out the lid stud provisions unless you are capable and willing to reinstall them with fiberglass putty (not included). Edelbrock carbs are easier to use in this respect. Know that you will have to use a cutoff wheel to nearly remove the entire neck area at the carb opening of an out of the box product in order to get the base to sit low enough over your carb. Using a carb without a choke horn is advantageous here to get the most airflow possible as the chock horn almost touches the underside of the oval lid.

Here, you can judge the outcome of the project. There was no Air Grabber assembly on the bottom side of the hood, but I have faith that the base will still work with AG assembly- equipped cars (need a guinea pig). This sure beats not being able to use a stock type air cleaner on your Mopar if you have chosen the RPM intake in my opinion! Hopefully, my customer will decide to have his choke horn machined off to help his motor breathe some. I think he may just be thinking of doing it, though I don't believe its totally necessary.

Comments concerning the design are welcome. Realize that I did all I could to get the assembly to fit at any expense, and that meant some sacrifice would have to be made. I know the air flow is not ideal, with no bowl leading down to the carb, but I do feel the air needed to feed a big motor is available under the lid and behind the filter, but a K&N over a Fram is highly advisable in my opinion.

[image]





[/image]

Post deleted by PAINT IT BLACK

PAINT IT BLACK, have you tried to make that dropped base one in the 70/72 style with a 440 and a RPM intake? I am interested in one. I have a Moroso drop base cleaner (round) and from my best measurements, that grafted to an airgrabber base is about perfect. The stock size airfilter can't be used though.

The base pictured above is the one you'd use. It could accept a 13" round filter, but yes, it'd need to be taller than stock.

I run an airgrabber/Holley/Eddy RPM on a 440 Cuda under a rally hood. I started with a 383 cleaner and cut out the neck, then grafted (welded and epoxy) the neck from a generic drop base. It's a tight fit. Only about a half inch clearance to the hood in few spots. I run a poly lock mount on the driver side--you want LIMITED motor movement!

Had to mod the support bracket on top too,in order to clear the Holley bowl vents

"There was no Air Grabber assembly on the bottom side of the hood, but I have faith that the base will still work with AG assembly- equipped cars (need a guinea pig)."

Are you still needing that 'guinea pig'? I'm game. 72 roadrunner 440 with RPM intake and airgrabber.

Thanks! That really helped