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1970 b-body power disc brake booster/master cylinder ??

Posted By: 6bblgt

1970 b-body power disc brake booster/master cylinder ?? - 11/09/08 01:07 PM

What determines which cars got the master cylinders with the lines toward the engine vs. toward the inner fender. Always heard it was a HEMI vs. big-block thing, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Early/late or plant thing; with b-bodies built at Lynch Rd., St. Louis, and LA? Is there anything on the b'cast sheet that would point towards one or the other?

I have a (February '70) '70 LA "E" built GTX with power disc brakes -
-- it has the bendix booster with master cylinder with the brake lines to the inner fender.

There is a (October '69) '70 St. Louis "G" built Charger SE with power disc brakes on Ebay -
-- it has the same set up
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: 1970 b-body power disc brake booster/master cylinder ?? - 11/13/08 09:48 PM

Stumped the "MOPARTS" crowd? Say it isn't so!

Here's a pic of my GTX, lines look a little "goofy" but original with no "kinks" from turning them around.



I went through all the '70 b-bodies on the 'bay;
most of the power disc brake lines are toward the inner fender but there are a bunch toward the engine?

Posted By: HPMike

Re: 1970 b-body power disc brake booster/master cylinder ?? - 11/13/08 10:00 PM

My 70 R/T has them facing the fender, but do not look like the last one pictured. The lines take a hard bend, but are very symmetrical and neat. Perhaps that is because the master cylinder is wrong on the green car.

MB
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: 1970 b-body power disc brake booster/master cylinder ?? - 11/13/08 11:08 PM

thanks Mike, What plant & SPD is your black car?
I know my M/C is incorrect, there was a NOS unit on the 'bay with the lines toward the engine listed as '70 b-body w/power disc brakes. Evidently they came both ways, WHY/WHEN/WHERE???
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 1970 b-body power disc brake booster/master cylinde - 11/13/08 11:09 PM

Quote:

Stumped the "MOPARTS" crowd? Say it isn't so!

Here's a pic of my GTX, lines look a little "goofy" but original with no "kinks" from turning them around.



I went through all the '70 b-bodies on the 'bay;
most of the power disc brake lines are toward the inner fender but there are a bunch toward the engine?






I never saw this , the ones toward the inner fender were NORMALLY found on HEMI cars , but I guess a few could have gotten thru the other way if the toward the engine units weren't in stock at build time ???

BUT looking at that particular master and knowing what I know , that is NOT a correct B body master cylinder for 1970 , that looks like the later E/B body and everything else unit , plus it should be painted BLACK , that's been replaced somewhere along the line

Just looked at the pic again , it APPEARS that SOMEONE also bent those lines to meet up with that master cylinder .
Posted By: HPMike

Re: 1970 b-body power disc brake booster/master cylinder ?? - 11/13/08 11:16 PM

Quote:

thanks Mike, What plant & SPD is your black car?
I know my M/C is incorrect, there was a NOS unit on the 'bay with the lines toward the engine listed as '70 b-body w/power disc brakes. Evidently they came both ways, WHY/WHEN/WHERE???








My R/T has a SPD of 7/14/70 and it is a St. Louis car. I never checked, but it must be one of the last 6 pk. R/T's produced.

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Posted By: Mastershake340

Re: 1970 b-body power disc brake booster/master cylinde - 11/13/08 11:28 PM

Disc brake master cylinders for '68-'70 B bodies have the lines toward the engine except for hemis. The hemi and non hemi application disc brake master cylinders are basically the same 1-1/8" bore parts internally, so why they changed to the line toward the engine style in '68 I can't even speculate (in '67 all B body master cylinders had lines toward the fender).
For the last over 20 years, the only replacement 1-1/8" cylinder available new for these applications was the line toward the fender style, which probably explains why you see that part on so many cars. Many would rather rebend brake lines than try to find the lines toward engine style cylinder.
If you check the Chrysler part numbers for B body master disc brake numbers you will find the part numbers for non-hemi are for the line toward engine style.
The cylinder shown in that picture on the green car is an aftermarket '71-'75 disc brake cylinder and the brake lines are not bent in an OE manner.

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Posted By: Paul Jacobs

Re: 1970 b-body power disc brake booster/master cylinde - 11/14/08 03:27 AM

I would agree that Mastershake340 is correct-I have never seen a true original car any other way.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 1970 b-body power disc brake booster/master cylinde - 11/14/08 05:30 AM

Quote:

Disc brake master cylinders for '68-'70 B bodies have the lines toward the engine except for hemis. The hemi and non hemi application disc brake master cylinders are basically the same 1-1/8" bore parts internally, so why they changed to the line toward the engine style in '68 I can't even speculate (in '67 all B body master cylinders had lines toward the fender).
For the last over 20 years, the only replacement 1-1/8" cylinder available new for these applications was the line toward the fender style, which probably explains why you see that part on so many cars. Many would rather rebend brake lines than try to find the lines toward engine style cylinder.
If you check the Chrysler part numbers for B body master disc brake numbers you will find the part numbers for non-hemi are for the line toward engine style.
The cylinder shown in that picture on the green car is an aftermarket '71-'75 disc brake cylinder and the brake lines are not bent in an OE manner.




Posted By: 62maxwgn

Re: 1970 b-body power disc brake booster/master cylinde - 11/14/08 01:48 PM

Correct 70 b-body with power disc's.

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Posted By: rocketresto

Re: 1970 b-body power disc brake booster/master cylinde - 11/14/08 06:25 PM

I think that in 1970 the exit on the master has to do with which brass block system is in the car. Two blocks get the fender exit master and the more common three block system gets the engine exit master. I know Dans GTX doesn't have the third valve on the frame rail, and would be willing to bet that HPMikes R/T dosen't either.
Mike
Posted By: 70runner

Re: 1970 b-body power disc brake booster/master cylinde - 11/14/08 06:49 PM

I have a NOS 70B body non-hemi PDB master cylinder in orig Mopar box dated Jul69. Its completely black, incl cap, and the outlet ports face the engine.
Posted By: fastmark

Re: 1970 b-body power disc brake booster/master cylinde - 11/14/08 09:29 PM

Galen once told me that Superbirds could come either way. I have a bird with the lines to the outside and my buds bird is on the engine side. Both are low mileage cars believed to be original and 440 cars.
Posted By: Quikshft

Re: 1970 b-body power disc brake booster/master cylinder ?? - 11/15/08 06:21 AM

Here's a shot of my '70 Superbee, St Louis built on Sept 24th.

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Posted By: 62maxwgn

Re: 1970 b-body power disc brake booster/master cylinde - 11/15/08 02:21 PM

Quote:

Galen once told me that Superbirds could come either way. I have a bird with the lines to the outside and my buds bird is on the fender side. Both are low mileage cars believed to be original and 440 cars.




More than once Galen has made statements that are not correct.I have yet (in 30 yrs) to see a bird with the "original" master cylinder that does not have the lines on the engine side.
Posted By: Mastershake340

Re: 1970 b-body power disc brake booster/master cylinde - 11/15/08 04:37 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Galen once told me that Superbirds could come either way. I have a bird with the lines to the outside and my buds bird is on the fender side. Both are low mileage cars believed to be original and 440 cars.




More than once Galen has made statements that are not correct.I have yet (in 30 yrs) to see a bird with the "original" master cylinder that does not have the lines on the engine side.



Several years ago I was parked next to a real nice Daytona at a local show, and noticed that it had a '71 up disc brake master cylinder on it. I diplomatically mentioned to the owner that the master cylinder was wrong but I had a correct NOS one at home that I'd sell him for a good price. The guy flipped out on me, told me "Galen Govier looked at my car, he told me everything wrong with it, he didn't tell me the master cylinder was wrong, if it was he would have told me! And Chrysler would have never run the brake lines on the engine side because of the heat!"
A few months later I got my new Mopar Collector Guide and I was reading Galen's column. In it he mentioned that a customer whose car he'd recently evaluated had called him and told him someone at a car show had told him his master cylinder was wrong. Galen went on to say that he had been studying cars and records for years, and didn't know everything, but basically did know everything and that the guy should say that Galen had looked at the car and said it was correct, therefore it is correct.
Funny, he had to be talking about me and that Daytona.
The blind leading the blind..........

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Posted By: Mastershake340

Re: 1970 b-body power disc brake booster/master cylinde - 11/15/08 04:39 PM

By the way, recently a correct appearing lines on the engine side master cylinder has started to be sold through the aftermarket. I think Napa sells it as a rebuilt even though it is new (Chinese).

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Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 1970 b-body power disc brake booster/master cylinde - 11/17/08 12:40 AM

Quote:

By the way, recently a correct appearing lines on the engine side master cylinder has started to be sold through the aftermarket. I think Napa sells it as a rebuilt even though it is new (Chinese).




hhhmmm , I wonder if it's the one someone else sells and won't give a price on their website ???
Posted By: UP FM3challenger

Re: 1970 b-body power disc brake booster/master cylinde - 11/17/08 01:04 AM

how about a napa part number for the correct (but chinese) one?
Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: 1970 b-body power disc brake booster/master cylinde - 11/17/08 01:25 AM

I seen it at Carquest stores, their number is m1614...Autozones number should be m1475...not a bad looking repro, has no part numbers cast in the bottom, like an original.....casting shape, and bail wire is slightly different, but you wouldn't know unless you were looking for the difference......retail is approx $50

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Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: 1970 b-body power disc brake booster/master cylinde - 11/17/08 01:28 AM

This is an original

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Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: 1970 b-body power disc brake booster/master cylinde - 11/17/08 01:30 AM

2

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Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: 1970 b-body power disc brake booster/master cylinde - 11/17/08 01:32 AM

3

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Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 1970 b-body power disc brake booster/master cylinde - 11/17/08 02:07 AM

Quote:

This is an original , that is not painted the color it should be .




fixed
Posted By: BS27R1B

Re: 1970 b-body power disc brake booster/master cylinde - 11/17/08 05:59 AM

Can anyone post the correct casting numbers for the master cylinders?

E B Hemi and non hemi.

Thanks
Posted By: Mastershake340

Re: 1970 b-body power disc brake booster/master cylinde - 11/17/08 06:14 AM

Quote:

Can anyone post the correct casting numbers for the master cylinders?

E B Hemi and non hemi.

Thanks



List of disc brake casting numbers from my master cylinder article published in Mopar Action April '05:
Disc brake master cylinder casting numbers
Note: first casting number in list should be 2225541
Posted By: NANKET

Re: 1970 b-body power disc brake booster/master cylinde - 11/17/08 06:15 AM

Where do we buy a rebuild kit for the original 1970 engine side master cylinder?
Posted By: Mastershake340

Re: 1970 b-body power disc brake booster/master cylinde - 11/17/08 06:17 AM

Quote:

Where do we buy a rebuild kit for the original 1970 engine side master cylinder?



Napa and Raybestos have a kit for 1-1/8" bore master cylinders.
Posted By: ademon

Re: 1970 b-body power disc brake booster/master cylinde - 11/17/08 05:37 PM

This is a 3 year old napa master cyl i installed on my 383 68 RR.

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Posted By: fastmark

Re: 1970 b-body power disc brake booster/master cylinde - 11/18/08 04:14 AM

I know Galen makes mistakes, but both of these birds have nice lines on them and pretty obvious that they have the original masters on them. 20 or 30 years ago when someone bought the wrong master and just twisted the lines over on the other side, they did not tend to do a good job at making them look straight. I believe both cars have the original lines in the correct orientation and yet they are both 440 cars with lines on opposite sides. Another thing that you probably will not agree on is the fact that neither of my friends two Superbirds had the vin number stamped on the rad support. Both had it on the trunk lip. Again, Galen said that was common on Superbirds. The problem is that I mentioned Galen and people on this board love to throw stones at him. That my 2 cents worth.

When I first bought my bird in 1979, I went to the Chrysler dealership and bought three masters for my AAR cuda and three for my 440 Superbird. All of the ones for the bird came with the lines to the engine side
Posted By: 62maxwgn

Re: 1970 b-body power disc brake booster/master cylinde - 11/18/08 01:57 PM

Quote:

Another thing that you probably will not agree on is the fact that neither of my friends two Superbirds had the vin number stamped on the rad support. Both had it on the trunk lip. Again, Galen said that was common on Superbirds. The problem is that I mentioned Galen and people on this board love to throw stones at him. That my 2 cents worth.






On that one I have to agree with you.My bird has none and a friends B5 bird also nas none.
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