Moparts
Pros and Cons of Undercoating
Posted By: 69rrgrabber
Pros and Cons of Undercoating - 04/15/12 04:48 PM
Trying to decide on if I should reunder coat the 69 Charger I'm working on. Despite no option code for undercoating of thefender tag, the car seemed to be undercoated from the factory. Is this common to have a car undercoated and nothing on the fender tag?
Any, I'm in Southern Arizona and not too worried about road salt or excessive rain. I am puting a quality sound / heat liner under the carpet so I wonder if that will be enough to supress heat and road sound. Anyone out there not re undercoat and regrett it? Why?
Thanks,
Carl
Posted By: Grizzly
Re: Pros and Cons of Undercoating - 04/15/12 05:14 PM
The undercoating from day 2 could be the old dealership gimmick from when the car was bought new. Used to be the first question they asked you when you bought a new car.
$20.00 worth of material, $3.00/hr oil change guy = a couple of hundred dollars in the dealerships' pocket.
It's been modified to today's standards though: they call it the "protection package". Etched glass and a black spray bomb of crap in the wheel-wells, or some stupid thing like that. Think they're up to 6 or 700 bucks now.....
Good question about the sound deadening.....
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Pros and Cons of Undercoating - 04/15/12 05:37 PM
Factory undercoated cars also had an underhood pad, does yours have one?
Posted By: 6PakBee
Re: Pros and Cons of Undercoating - 04/15/12 10:13 PM
I'm becoming a fan of urethane bed liner in the wheel wells and stopping there.
Posted By: Mr D21
Re: Pros and Cons of Undercoating - 04/16/12 03:04 AM
what is the code for undercoating? And would it be the same LA vs Hamtrack - 70 challenger btw,,,
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Pros and Cons of Undercoating - 04/16/12 03:17 AM
Did you see my first question?
Posted By: 69rrgrabber
Re: Pros and Cons of Undercoating - 04/16/12 04:33 AM
No, I don't think it had the under hood pad. The car was totally repainted, color change, about 15 years ago. But they did a bad job and the car never got finished.
The code for factory undercoating with the hood pad is J25 I think. I don't have it on my fender pad. The undercoating sure looks like the factory stuff but I don't know for sure. After all this work scraping it off I really hate to re undercoat it again.
With the wheel wells, were they all done standard at the factory or was that part of the under coating and hood pad option? It seems to make sense that I at least replace the undercoating in the wheel wells to prevent chipping.
Posted By: HPMike
Re: Pros and Cons of Undercoating - 04/16/12 04:43 AM
Quote:
No, I don't think it had the under hood pad. The car was totally repainted, color change, about 15 years ago. But they did a bad job and the car never got finished.
The code for factory undercoating with the hood pad is J25 I think. I don't have it on my fender pad. The undercoating sure looks like the factory stuff but I don't know for sure. After all this work scraping it off I really hate to re undercoat it again.
With the wheel wells, were they all done standard at the factory or was that part of the under coating and hood pad option? It seems to make sense that I at least replace the undercoating in the wheel wells to prevent chipping.
And NOTHING looks worse than seeing body color in the wheelwells.....
MB
Posted By: mopars_1
Re: Pros and Cons of Undercoating - 04/16/12 05:40 AM
one way to tell if it was factory or dealership applied, is if there is evidence of masking off of certain areas under the car. the factory masked off areas like the leaf spring perches and a few spots on the torsion bar cross mount. they did this because they undercoated before assembly of suspension. dealership undercoating would probably be on the leaf springs, torsion bars maybe rear axle as it was sloppily applied over everything.
IIRC, all mopars had undercoating in the wheel wells except some LA built cars? maybe someone can correct me on this.
as far as undercoating your car, if you already have the old stuff scraped off, Id leave it off. I spent a lot of time and money to try and get my factory undercoated car to look good underneath. It works ok as a sound detonator, but something like fat mat or equivalent will work much better. not to mention it looks a lot cleaner with no undercoating and also doesn't look like your trying to hide anything.. hope this helps
Posted By: astjp2
Re: Pros and Cons of Undercoating - 04/16/12 06:17 AM
Doesn't undercoating protect the paint from rock chips/debris
?
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Pros and Cons of Undercoating - 04/16/12 12:59 PM
Quote:
With the wheel wells, were they all done standard at the factory or was that part of the under coating and hood pad option? It seems to make sense that I at least replace the undercoating in the wheel wells to prevent chipping.
Wheel wells were always done , both front and rear along with a small area above the pinion snubber and maybe the tail of the trans above the spinning u joint ...
I'll let Scott or someone with more knowledge there correct this one ... I stopped paying attention to what's right a long time ago because most restored cars are wrong .
Posted By: Morty426
Re: Pros and Cons of Undercoating - 04/16/12 05:51 PM
I didn't think undercoating appeared on the fender tag
Posted By: HPMike
Re: Pros and Cons of Undercoating - 04/16/12 05:58 PM
Quote:
Quote:
With the wheel wells, were they all done standard at the factory or was that part of the under coating and hood pad option? It seems to make sense that I at least replace the undercoating in the wheel wells to prevent chipping.
Wheel wells were always done , both front and rear along with a small area above the pinion snubber and maybe the tail of the trans above the spinning u joint ...
I'll let Scott or someone with more knowledge there correct this one ... I stopped paying attention to what's right a long time ago because most restored cars are wrong .
The bottom of the gas tank was coated as well, IIRC.
MB
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Pros and Cons of Undercoating - 04/16/12 06:07 PM
On non undercoate ordered cars the front wheel wells were often NOT undercoated (more correctly referred to as sound deadener) when from the Los Angeles assembly plant. In addition the rears were often dine very sparingly with only small amounts getting on the surrounding areas like the has tank etc.
Posted By: DPelletier
Re: Pros and Cons of Undercoating - 04/16/12 06:13 PM
I would only do the wheelwells. No reason to go the full undercoating route on a collector car IMO and whenever I see a car for sale with the full undercoating, I wonder what they are trying to hide.
Dave
Posted By: cudastruction
Re: Pros and Cons of Undercoating - 04/16/12 06:25 PM
I agree. As a buyer, if it isn't a survivor with factory undercoating, I see undercoating as a way to hide something.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Pros and Cons of Undercoating - 04/16/12 07:25 PM
Quote:
On non undercoate ordered cars the front wheel wells were often NOT undercoated (more correctly referred to as sound deadener) when from the Los Angeles assembly plant. In addition the rears were often dine very sparingly with only small amounts getting on the surrounding areas like the has tank etc.
I didn't know that Scott.
One thing I have been trying to determine is if the front on my 69 383 Dart (hamtramack) was not undercoated when built. I can't say for sure because front fenders have been replaced from a front end collision back around 1980, but it looks to have never been done when new ????
Can't remember seeing gas tank undersides done on non undercoated cars but heree in the northeast everything I have stripped has been undercoated usually.
Posted By: HPMike
Re: Pros and Cons of Undercoating - 04/16/12 07:37 PM
Quote:
Quote:
On non undercoate ordered cars the front wheel wells were often NOT undercoated (more correctly referred to as sound deadener) when from the Los Angeles assembly plant. In addition the rears were often dine very sparingly with only small amounts getting on the surrounding areas like the has tank etc.
I didn't know that Scott.
One thing I have been trying to determine is if the front on my 69 383 Dart (hamtramack) was not undercoated when built. I can't say for sure because front fenders have been replaced from a front end collision back around 1980, but it looks to have never been done when new ????
Can't remember seeing gas tank undersides done on non undercoated cars but heree in the northeast everything I have stripped has been undercoated usually.
The bottom of the tank on my Hemi Challenger is coated, and I am 100% sure that it is original. Also had a survivor '70 GTX in here that had the bottom of the tank coated as well.
MB
Posted By: 71rm23
Re: Pros and Cons of Undercoating - 04/16/12 11:39 PM
I was under the impression that it was applied from the dealer. I could be wrong, done that before.
My car was built in St. Louis. The car has undercoating on it. All I can say is that I'm removing it now to paint. With the coating, it has saved my car from the cancerous rust. With that, now I'm debating whether or not to re-apply it after paint.
Posted By: DPelletier
Re: Pros and Cons of Undercoating - 04/16/12 11:58 PM
Quote:
I was under the impression that it was applied from the dealer. I could be wrong, done that before. My car was built in St. Louis. The car has undercoating on it. All I can say is that I'm removing it now to paint. With the coating, it has saved my car from the cancerous rust. With that, now I'm debating whether or not to re-apply it after paint.
Some cars got full undercoating from the factory, some were done at the dealership and some weren't undercoated at all (except the wheelwells as mentioned previously).
Obviously the undercoating has helped preserve the car and so the answer as to what to do depends on you: what are your plans for the car?
In my case, my car will never see snow, never see a dirt road and rain will be avoided; it won't be going out of it's heated shop in the winter and will likely only get driven a few times a month seasonally....therefore there is no need whatsoever for full undercoating and I like being able to see everything under the car clearly. I also think that should I ever sell the car, buyers will also want to clearly see the condition of the underside of the unibody.
Now, if you are planning on using your car as a year round daily driver, I'd put the undercoating back on.
Dave
Posted By: Silver70
Re: Pros and Cons of Undercoating - 04/17/12 01:08 AM
For something I'd drive daily in rain, parts of winter when there's no snow, then I'd undercoat it. My 68 was done and the floors are still perfect other than the trunk floor I replace, so it's getting redone. On my challenger, I used sem rock-it truck bed liner. Looks similar to undercoat, but it's very durable and washes clean very easily. It's also available in tintable. However on something really nice, I'd do paint or epoxy for a factory look.
Posted By: AZ_A12_BEE
Re: Pros and Cons of Undercoating - 04/17/12 01:41 AM
Quote:
I didn't think undercoating appeared on the fender tag
It does on STL cars, A05 protection group, this car is one after my 500 vert, both have A05
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Pros and Cons of Undercoating - 04/17/12 01:43 AM
Quote:
The bottom of the tank on my Hemi Challenger is coated, and I am 100% sure that it is original. Also had a survivor '70 GTX in here that had the bottom of the tank coated as well.
MB
I don't doubt that a bit Mike, I was speaking of Los Angeles cars, and even those vary in the amount of coverage they get, most I've seen from that plant have had very little on the fuel tank, mostly just a dusting of splatter over spray or a small build up near the forward/axle side.
Posted By: AZ_A12_BEE
Re: Pros and Cons of Undercoating - 04/17/12 01:44 AM
Quote:
Quote:
The bottom of the tank on my Hemi Challenger is coated, and I am 100% sure that it is original. Also had a survivor '70 GTX in here that had the bottom of the tank coated as well.
MB
I don't doubt that a bit Mike, I was speaking of Los Angeles cars, and even those vary in the amount of coverage they get, most I've seen from that plant have had very little on the fuel tank, mostly just a dusting on splatter or a small build up near the forward/axle side.
thats usually what I have seen, just some overspray on the gas tank
Posted By: 340cpe
Re: Pros and Cons of Undercoating - 04/17/12 03:03 AM
Now that I am really confused, which I guess is not difficult with whats right or wrong on some of these cars, I have a 74 Charger SE which I am the 2nd owner of. The car has a hood pad, coating in the front fenders, rear wheel houses, and of course the bottom of the floor pan. I have the original build sheet which does not have the code for undercoating. I also own a 71 Charger which has the same except there is no hood pad, this car is a SuperBee. I have the build sheet for it also with know undercoating code. Both cars were built at Lynch Road. Any takers?
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Pros and Cons of Undercoating - 04/17/12 03:14 AM
If the floor pans are undercoated and its not on the Broadcast Sheet it wasnt factory applied.
Posted By: 71rm23
Re: Pros and Cons of Undercoating - 04/17/12 03:53 AM
Quote:
Some cars got full undercoating from the factory, some were done at the dealership and some weren't undercoated at all (except the wheelwells as mentioned previously).
Obviously the undercoating has helped preserve the car and so the answer as to what to do depends on you: what are your plans for the car?
In my case, my car will never see snow, never see a dirt road and rain will be avoided; it won't be going out of it's heated shop in the winter and will likely only get driven a few times a month seasonally....therefore there is no need whatsoever for full undercoating and I like being able to see everything under the car clearly. I also think that should I ever sell the car, buyers will also want to clearly see the condition of the underside of the unibody.
Now, if you are planning on using your car as a year round daily driver, I'd put the undercoating back on.
Dave
I'm leaning towards not putting it back on. I wont be driving it in the elements of weather. Thanks for helping me make the final decision, Dave
Posted By: 340cpe
Re: Pros and Cons of Undercoating - 04/17/12 03:54 AM
I guess the dealers made a bundle then. I can't say that I have seen a car A,B,C or E body up here in the wintery northeast that has not had the bottom of the floor pan coated. Scott thanks for your help. I can't say that I am totally unconfused now but this helps!! ha ha
Posted By: captaindodge
Re: Pros and Cons of Undercoating - 06/16/12 03:16 PM
And NOTHING looks worse than seeing body color in the wheelwells.....
I think body color on the pinch weld of rocker panels and behind the grill look worse!
Posted By: gomangoRTSE
Re: Pros and Cons of Undercoating - 06/17/12 11:20 PM
Quote:
And NOTHING looks worse than seeing body color in the wheelwells.....
I think body color on the pinch weld of rocker panels and behind the grill look worse!
On non undercoate ordered cars the front wheel wells were often NOT undercoated (more correctly referred to as sound deadener) when from the Los Angeles assembly plant. In addition the rears were often dine very sparingly with only small amounts getting on the surrounding areas like the has tank etc
____________________________________________________________
As far as blacking out behind the grill, yea sure I agree that should be done. But I completely disagree that "nothing looks worse than seeing body color in the wheelwells." Each person has their own preference. I will not undercoat my fendwerwells. I like the orange being seen. My car is an LA car (NOE), but I just like the over restored look. I more than like wont use the black or gray primer on the floorboards. Im gonna paint it all.
Look at it this way. If down the road the paint shows wear and or tear or chips "then" you can always tape off area and put your undercoating on it. Its the age old arguement of correctness, or over restoration. If your not in the concurs class at nationals, then do what pleases you.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Pros and Cons of Undercoating - 06/18/12 01:36 PM
While it is true that most if not all LA plant cars did not recieve sound deadener in the forward wheel wells, every original car I've seen DID have blackout paint in the front wheel well areas to cover the body color, some had more than others but there was an effort to hide the body color made none the less.
Posted By: 2fast4yourBrain
Re: Pros and Cons of Undercoating - 06/18/12 05:47 PM
Quote:
While it is true that most if not all LA plant cars did not recieve sound deadener in the forward wheel wells, every original car I've seen DID have blackout paint in the front wheel well areas to cover the body color, some had more than others but there was an effort to hide the body color made none the less.
I would do this. I would maybe use thinned out bedliner coating so that it wouldn't chip off.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Pros and Cons of Undercoating - 06/18/12 06:22 PM
Here we go wirh the bedliner topic again
Posted By: DPelletier
Re: Pros and Cons of Undercoating - 06/18/12 06:32 PM
Quote:
Here we go wirh the bedliner topic again
Dave
Posted By: Silver70
Re: Pros and Cons of Undercoating - 06/19/12 12:32 AM
There's a member here who I believe uses speedliner frpm what I remember. It looks like factory undercoating and it's tintable. I've seen inside quarters he's done before installing them and it looks good to me.