I had a blue one and it may get restored eventually, the owner started and the body is done but the assembly has not happened yet. My sources say around 36 were built, but maybe Dave has more to say on that. What it is worth depends on alot of things, like the exhaust manifolds (they are worth $3500/pair) original engine/trans, 893 oil pan, 065 radiator and a few other special parts. Need more info and PICS!
Quote: I had a blue one and it may get restored eventually, the owner started and the body is done but the assembly has not happened yet. My sources say around 36 were built, but maybe Dave has more to say on that. What it is worth depends on alot of things, like the exhaust manifolds (they are worth $3500/pair) original engine/trans, 893 oil pan, 065 radiator and a few other special parts. Need more info and PICS!
Out of the 360, only 36 notchback were built ? Humm very interesting.....
What is the value of a notchback number 3 car that needs restoration, running, driving, numbers matching,auto and 4 spd ? With out any more particalurs give a range in value.
What engine? No M-Codes came with 4-speeds, only 340 and 383 cars. The cheapest I have seen was the one we got, complete rusted to death car was still $10K.
Back in late 67 a couple Factory Racers were given 68 Barracudas with a 383 package. They were told to stuff a 440 in them. I remember when Vanke did his. It was a black notch car. After they took them to Detroit for the factory to see, to prototype a M code factory car, they let Arlen keep the car. He sold it to a local street racer and it did very well on the drive-in circut.
Quote: What engine? No M-Codes came with 4-speeds, only 340 and 383 cars. The cheapest I have seen was the one we got, complete rusted to death car was still $10K.
Crap Jim sorry it's a 69 440 car with auto, COUPE. I wish you were in my area to see the car and evaluate the value for me. I have never kept up with 67-69 Barracudas so I don't know the market values.
Quote: Let me know if you want me to check it out for you. I am unemployed at the moment and just doing a few transport jobs so I have time.
I have a dark blue 67 383 4 spd fastback formula S I bought 2 months ago and I'm thinking about putting it on the market soon. It's damaged from a mishap and needs work but it's fixable and a numbers original owner car. It's been in storage the last 20 years.
Really like the 1969 440 M code 'Cuda coupes & fastbacks, so what do you figure this one would be worth in today's market, anyone here know what it sold for. Also is there any type of exterior/interior color breakdown lists available. Any other weird color combo 69 440 M code 'Cuda's built that any of you have seen.
Quote: Really like the 1969 440 M code 'Cuda coupes & fastbacks, so what do you figure this one would be worth in today's market, anyone here know what it sold for. Also is there any type of exterior/interior color breakdown lists available. Any other weird color combo 69 440 M code 'Cuda's built that any of you have seen.
The breakdowns he is asking about can only be given if all the actual built cars are known and registered. Otherwise all you can get are percentages of certain options for ALL models of that bodystyle and you would have to extrapolate from there and even then the number is at best a GUESSTIMATE ...
$60K needing paint and reassembly. And I'd sure guess a lot of etc.
Good luck with that.
Excellent pro resto'd, 440 fastback, great color top notch docs, all original sheet metal, sold for $20K more than asking price of that project. And that was years ago at the TOP of the market.
Quote: Wow, that is cheap for one of those, might have to go down and check it out in person and find out why?!?
Jim, this ones been around for awhile. It was for sale in Maine(i think)a few years ago. Look at the left inside quarter panel. Looks like the restorer didn't even bother to take a sticker off the repo quarter before painting it?
Yes wedgeman, any up dates? I just received an up date of a new owner of a Y2 M-code fastback in Canada!.........adding another notch to the list would be great! Dave
Is it me or are the '69 M-code Cuda's and M-code Dart's not worth much or "the best kept secret" collector muscle car off the radar screen out there today? I mean look at the numbers built compared to '69 M-code B-bodies and wing cars and a few others. Seems you can find complete nicely restored M-code Dart's and Cuda's for about the price of barely driver quality M-code A12's or barely driver quality '70+ Cuda's and Challenger's what's with the low value of the M-code Dart/Cuda Maybe I should keep my trap shut and start looking huh
Let's see '69 M-code Dart production was 640 versus 1907 '69 M-code Super Bee's on the Dodge side
and 1412 '69 M-code road runners versus XXX? M-code Cuda's on the Plymouth side.......why the low value................well at least the package code has a higher number; A12 vs A13
Quote: Is it me or are the '69 M-code Cuda's and M-code Dart's not worth much or "the best kept secret" collector muscle car off the radar screen out there today? I mean look at the numbers built compared to '69 M-code B-bodies and wing cars and a few others. Seems you can find complete nicely restored M-code Dart's and Cuda's for about the price of barely driver quality M-code A12's or barely driver quality '70+ Cuda's and Challenger's what's with the low value of the M-code Dart/Cuda Maybe I should keep my trap shut and start looking huh
Let's see '69 M-code Dart production was 640 versus 1907 '69 M-code Super Bee's on the Dodge side
and 1412 '69 M-code road runners versus XXX? M-code Cuda's on the Plymouth side.......why the low value................well at least the package code has a higher number; A12 vs A13
MikeR
First of all hipo A bodies have been lower price than hipo B an E bodies for years only seeing a jump in value shortly before the price crash of old muscle cars in the end of 2006. They have probably held their prices better through the crash than some of the other cars.
Yes, the A body 440 cars have always been under valued for what they are but were quickly overshadowed when the E bodies with 440-4 and 440-6 cars became available the next year.
The problem with them is that just like big block E bodies (maybe moreso with As) is the are not a very well balanced car for much other than straight line and probably harder to launch due to their light rear end. Most A body guys LOVE the well balanced, fast, high, winding small blocks that were very quick with a 340 with 3.91 gears. These cars are a force all in their own. They are definately better built than an E body and I personally think better built (tighter) than the B bodies when they were all new.
A bodies never got much respect in the Mopar camp even though they were a nice, fast little car. Personally I LOVE them. They are a great car to drive these days as they are about the same size inside and out as todays full size cars. Many of the young guys that grew up with the modern cars of today find the B bodies way too big compared to what they are used to.
Look at a 68 GTS or 69 Swinger with the body lines, performance hood and tail lights. They LOOK like a baby RR.
Quote: Is it me or are the '69 M-code Cuda's and M-code Dart's not worth much or "the best kept secret" collector muscle car off the radar screen out there today? I mean look at the numbers built compared to '69 M-code B-bodies and wing cars and a few others. Seems you can find complete nicely restored M-code Dart's and Cuda's for about the price of barely driver quality M-code A12's or barely driver quality '70+ Cuda's and Challenger's what's with the low value of the M-code Dart/Cuda Maybe I should keep my trap shut and start looking huh
Let's see '69 M-code Dart production was 640 versus 1907 '69 M-code Super Bee's on the Dodge side
and 1412 '69 M-code road runners versus XXX? M-code Cuda's on the Plymouth side.......why the low value................well at least the package code has a higher number; A12 vs A13
MikeR
First of all hipo A bodies have been lower price than hipo B an E bodies for years only seeing a jump in value shortly before the price crash of old muscle cars in the end of 2006. They have probably held their prices better through the crash than some of the other cars.
Yes, the A body 440 cars have always been under valued for what they are but were quickly overshadowed when the E bodies with 440-4 and 440-6 cars became available the next year.
The problem with them is that just like big block E bodies (maybe moreso with As) is the are not a very well balanced car for much other than straight line and probably harder to launch due to their light rear end. Most A body guys LOVE the well balanced, fast, high, winding small blocks that were very quick with a 340 with 3.91 gears. These cars are a force all in their own. They are definately better built than an E body and I personally think better built (tighter) than the B bodies when they were all new.
A bodies never got much respect in the Mopar camp even though they were a nice, fast little car. Personally I LOVE them. They are a great car to drive these days as they are about the same size inside and out as todays full size cars. Many of the young guys that grew up with the modern cars of today find the B bodies way too big compared to what they are used to.
Look at a 68 GTS or 69 Swinger with the body lines, performance hood and tail lights. They LOOK like a baby RR.
They are a great car to drive these days as they are about the same size inside and out as todays full size cars.
That's funny because I wanted a '69 383 GTS back in '69 and my mother asked "why do you want a COMPACT CAR" which they were back then Then I found out by a magazine article that Dodge was going to do the M-code 440 Dart and couldn't find a Dodge dealer that knew anything about it and got laughed out of a Dodge dealership when I asked a sales guy about the 440 in the Dart....sales guy shouts to another sales guy down a hallway and he laughs too and says "yeah they'll be putting the Hemi in the family station wagon too....more laughing and I leave I was so mad and that I decided not to even get a 383 GTS and ordered a '69 383 road runner showed them...and even came to a complete stop in front of the Dodge dealership with the rr one day and lit em up with the 3.91 Suregrip felt better
Nice description of the A-Body small block! The only thing is you couldn't get a 4 speed with M code. I would love an M code Cuda but now I am looking forward more than ever to getting my 4 speed 340S FB on the road! Thanks!
The main difference in the M-Code Darts/Barracudas and A12 cars is the multiple carbs and fiberglass hood, as compared to a 4-bbl and stock hoods. Multi-carb cars will ALWAYS demand more money and aura.
Quote: The main difference in the M-Code Darts/Barracudas and A12 cars is the multiple carbs and fiberglass hood, as compared to a 4-bbl and stock hoods. Multi-carb cars will ALWAYS demand more money and aura.
Hmmmmmmm I think they only built two of those A13's with a fiberglass lift off hood, three two barrels and an aluminum Edelbrock manifold, one was a Dart the other a Cuda............thought it was funny when I started to type it but NOT
Wonder if there was a class for a multi carb, big block compact back then
Quote: The main difference in the M-Code Darts/Barracudas and A12 cars is the multiple carbs and fiberglass hood, as compared to a 4-bbl and stock hoods. Multi-carb cars will ALWAYS demand more money and aura.
Hmmmmmmm I think they only built two of those A13's with a fiberglass lift off hood, three two barrels and an aluminum Edelbrock manifold, one was a Dart the other a Cuda............thought it was funny when I started to type it but NOT
Wonder if there was a class for a multi carb, big block compact back then
MikeR
I have never heard of this, is there any factory documentation for this?
Quote: The main difference in the M-Code Darts/Barracudas and A12 cars is the multiple carbs and fiberglass hood, as compared to a 4-bbl and stock hoods. Multi-carb cars will ALWAYS demand more money and aura.
Hmmmmmmm I think they only built two of those A13's with a fiberglass lift off hood, three two barrels and an aluminum Edelbrock manifold, one was a Dart the other a Cuda............thought it was funny when I started to type it but NOT
Wonder if there was a class for a multi carb, big block compact back then
MikeR
I have never heard of this, is there any factory documentation for this?
NO!!!!! But see how internet "folklore" is started, it was meant to be funny in regards to some recent threads and as I wrote it is NOT. NEVER WAS THERE A LOH Dart or Cuda with multi-carbs! Five years from now someone will bring this "fact" up and that they even saw a photo of one
I do not think it would make a good FAST car. I know that JohnRR was going to race the 383 4-speed GTS I sold to him (he traded an M-Code GTS that was tubbed and caged for it) but I don't think he has done it yet. I had the opportunity to buy an M-Code GTS with a six-pack on it about 15 years ago for $7500 and couldn't come up with the cash then, I still kick myself for that one...
It is believed that there were 358 cuda 440s built, in the three production runs.
Having had the pleasure of logging over 30,000 miles in an original one, I can attest that they are certainly a handful. With armstrong steering, 10" drums, and the ability to break the rear loose at will, they certainly were not designed for the average person. Add to that the limited 12 month/12,000 mile warranty, and the skinny tractionless tires available at the time, they really offered little over a 340 car in terms of performance, and certainly not in the handling department.
I have heard they were produced to homologate the 440 for use in stock drag racing classes, however I have no proof that this is true.
Even in the early 90s, many "knowledgeable" Moparites did not even know of their existence, and with the fendertag indicating the E63 (383) motor, most often assumed they were simply a crudely done (motor mount) home swap. If I heard "fake" once, I heard it a million times.
I only knew of them from a two page black & white article in one of the first Mopar Action mags that featured one. And I still thank Nick Corbo of Stamford, Conneticut (whom I just google searched and found his obituary from 2009 ) for spending the time over the phone helping me learn and document my car before finalizing the purchase.
I wonder if Chrysler was allowed to use the extra 140 M-code Dart production to make the homologation of 500 per model (for the Cuda) that seemed to have been the number of the day for approval? 640 Dart's and 360 (358) Cuda's gave them the 1000 units needed
As I said the only way I knew about them back in '69 was from an actual small "sidebar" article in one of the magazines. You'd pass right by it if you were not interested in the Dart or Cuda it was so short. That magazine photo I posted above was a test done in Drag Racing Magazine that headlined the Sox 6BBL road runner test and said nothing about the M-code Dart test on the cover so even the media did their part to hide them too
Quote: I wonder if Chrysler was allowed to use the extra 140 M-code Dart production to make the homologation of 500 per model (for the Cuda) that seemed to have been the number of the day for approval? 640 Dart's and 360 (358) Cuda's gave them the 1000 units needed
As I said the only way I knew about them back in '69 was from an actual small "sidebar" article in one of the magazines. You'd pass right by it if you were not interested in the Dart or Cuda it was so short. That magazine photo I posted above was a test done in Drag Racing Magazine that headlined the Sox 6BBL road runner test and said nothing about the M-code Dart test on the cover so even the media did their part to hide them too
(sorry about Nick Corbo )
MikeR
Mike, i would love to find/see this "sidebar" article you speak of! YOUR HOMEWORK assignment is to find this article!!! LOL I knew a guy that told me his relative was a test car driver or writer back then and they got a M-code A-body(forget if Dart or 'cuda) and it had a 6pak on it! So maybe Chrysler first thought of offering the same package as the B-body brothers?
As far as RoadRunnerJD's comment about auto vs 4spd....All my cars are 4spd and i thought i would NEVER own an automatic muscle mopar including a M-code 'cuda('cuda cause that's what i'm into, love Darts also). Well thinking this i even did a trade/cash deal for a set of REAL M-code A-body exhaust manifolds i had for a rare '69 340 'cuda(A56) 4spd coupe!.....Remember i said i wouldn't own a automatic car?...Well out at the Mopar NATS one summer i rode in my friends A12 RR AUTOMATIC car and it was an awesome RIDE(won't go into details how i thought we were going to crash at high speed going sideways...thanks to Ed Cook for saving it and Scotty's A12 auto pulling ahead). I said to myself the automatic was really ok! Long story short, there's now 2 M-code 'cudas in my stable(you can see the 1st one i bought earlier in this post, sold my real '70 440-6, bench 4spd, Bee to buy it)!!! Also the caretaker of the registry below!!!
Now I was told that the reason for no 4-speed behind the '69 440 M-code Dart and Cuda was there is or was no DANA that fit the A-body and the 440 with a 4-speed ALWAYS got a DANA.....is this true?
I'll have to go back to my stack of '68, '69 car magazines and find that press release statement
Quote: I wonder if Chrysler was allowed to use the extra 140 M-code Dart production to make the homologation of 500 per model (for the Cuda) that seemed to have been the number of the day for approval? 640 Dart's and 360 (358) Cuda's gave them the 1000 units needed
As I said the only way I knew about them back in '69 was from an actual small "sidebar" article in one of the magazines. You'd pass right by it if you were not interested in the Dart or Cuda it was so short. That magazine photo I posted above was a test done in Drag Racing Magazine that headlined the Sox 6BBL road runner test and said nothing about the M-code Dart test on the cover so even the media did their part to hide them too
(sorry about Nick Corbo )
MikeR
Mike, i would love to find/see this "sidebar" article you speak of! YOUR HOMEWORK assignment is to find this article!!! LOL I knew a guy that told me his relative was a test car driver or writer back then and they got a M-code A-body(forget if Dart or 'cuda) and it had a 6pak on it! So maybe Chrysler first thought of offering the same package as the B-body brothers?
As far as RoadRunnerJD's comment about auto vs 4spd....All my cars are 4spd and i thought i would NEVER own an automatic muscle mopar including a M-code 'cuda('cuda cause that's what i'm into, love Darts also). Well thinking this i even did a trade/cash deal for a set of REAL M-code A-body exhaust manifolds i had for a rare '69 340 'cuda(A56) 4spd coupe!.....Remember i said i wouldn't own a automatic car?...Well out at the Mopar NATS one summer i rode in my friends A12 RR AUTOMATIC car and it was an awesome RIDE(won't go into details how i thought we were going to crash at high speed going sideways...thanks to Ed Cook for saving it and Scotty's A12 auto pulling ahead). I said to myself the automatic was really ok! Long story short, there's now 2 M-code 'cudas in my stable(you can see the 1st one i bought earlier in this post, sold my real '70 440-6, bench 4spd, Bee to buy it)!!! Also the caretaker of the registry below!!!
I am also a 4-speed guy, and may still turn my tubbed M-Code into a 4-speed, though when JohnRR found the M-Code block 8 digits off my serial number it might change my mind.
Quote: I am also a 4-speed guy, and may still turn my tubbed M-Code into a 4-speed, though when JohnRR found the M-Code block 8 digits off my serial number it might change my mind.
Does it have the holes drilled for the driver's side motor mount and that's how you and John knew it was a M-code block
I just found this ad in an old Hi-Performance Cars. They also have an artcle where they got a hold of the first test car before the other mags did and put a Six Pack on it. COOL STUFF!
Quote: Yep it has the holes, plus the VIN on the block could only be for an M-Code A-body.
A "B" plant VIN and is it a HP or HP2 shift?
B code VIN and the last digit of the VIN was off by 6 actually, all digits are the same except the last ... car was 8 , engine block is 2 or vice versa .
Quote: I am also a 4-speed guy, and may still turn my tubbed M-Code into a 4-speed, though when JohnRR found the M-Code block 8 digits off my serial number it might change my mind.
Does it have the holes drilled for the driver's side motor mount and that's how you and John knew it was a M-code block
MikeR
Yours look better , the block I got looked like they were done by hand ..
Yep, I just went and looked at it this morning, pretty crude! I have a template a buddy of mine made 20 some years ago in case anyone needed the exact dimesions to make an A-Body 440 block. I also have a 440 block that has two drilled pads near the head just like the A-Body 383 block have, wonder why they did that?
This is a little off subject but I am looking for that exhaust manifold in the photo. would you are anyone else have one for sale. I have two M Codes, one is stock the other is totally not.
The thing with these car is it was the streetable version of the SS/HA cars that are still the fastest supers stockers around. There was a lot of hammering to get the Hemi in one back then but the 440 was a good second. Big engine, little car, only meant to go straight and fast. They are a best kept secret.
This is a little off subject but I am looking for that exhaust manifold in the photo. would you are anyone else have one for sale. I have two M Codes, one is stock the other is totally not.
The thing with these car is it was the streetable version of the SS/HA cars that are still the fastest supers stockers around. There was a lot of hammering to get the Hemi in one back then but the 440 was a good second. Big engine, little car, only meant to go straight and fast. They are a best kept secret.
Jeff
Jeff
I'm looking for one also, so if someone has two let me know after you let Jeff know and he has his
Quote: My M-Code is 282308 and the block is 282300. Can't get much closer! If someone still has the car the block goes to then let me know!
I thought the block was 282302 ?
Nope, I just looked at the block and the car and that is what is on them. I just got a call yesterday from a guy who was looking at a pair of the manifolds and asked me what they were worth. I told him to buy them and give me first chance at them since I don't have them for my car yet.
On looking for the manifolds they are worth only what someone is going to pay for them. I have see them listed from $200-$5000 over the years but.... These thing are a real soft spot as they really do not flow well and any header will increase the performance. We all are looking for originality though. I'd be interested for a couple of grand in just the drivers side one. This is the only part that I am really looking for to complete my car.
It is kind of funny that the one M code Cuda I paid $1550 for back in 84. I still have the car and and just got it out of the barn after 26 years. The guy said he wanted $100 extra for the engine block, blown up and cracked, and exhaust manifolds.... I kick myself now for that. We all had stores like that.
The last pair I saw sold in person went for $3000, and they belonged to an original owner car! There was a member here that found some on eBay late last year and got them for under $1000.
Quote: I am also a 4-speed guy, and may still turn my tubbed M-Code into a 4-speed, though when JohnRR found the M-Code block 8 digits off my serial number it might change my mind.
Does it have the holes drilled for the driver's side motor mount and that's how you and John knew it was a M-code block
MikeR
Like the above motor i have a E440 block with 9A vin# on the pan rail. It HAS the drilled and tapped holes for the M-code A-body motor mount? I've had this motor since the late '70's! What's up with that??????????????
Quote: Did they produce any Barracudas at Lynch Rd???
What he said , since they did NOT build A bodies at Lynch Rd. that is NOT a M code A body block ...
The block that I bought was a 9B vin and found in the same general area the car had been all it's life. The car for Jim's current block I have not been able to find as of yet.
Quote: Did they produce any Barracudas at Lynch Rd???
What he said , since they did NOT build A bodies at Lynch Rd. that is NOT a M code A body block ...
Which explains why it looked TOO GOOD , that was done in a milling main of some sort.
The block that I bought was a 9B vin and found in the same general area the car had been all it's life . the car from Jim's current block I have not been able to find as of yet.
John, if the engine that you're saying looked "TOO GOOD" is the engine photo I posted; THAT'S A 9B Hamtrmck ENGINE....see the next photo I posted of the VIN two post later.
Quote: Did they produce any Barracudas at Lynch Rd???
What he said , since they did NOT build A bodies at Lynch Rd. that is NOT a M code A body block ...
Which explains why it looked TOO GOOD , that was done in a milling main of some sort.
The block that I bought was a 9B vin and found in the same general area the car had been all it's life . the car from Jim's current block I have not been able to find as of yet.
John, if the engine that you're saying looked "TOO GOOD" is the engine photo I posted; THAT'S A 9B Hamtrmck ENGINE....see the next photo I posted of the VIN two post later.
Whoops, my bad , I thought the other guy did it , still looks a lot better than the one I had .
Quote: Mike, i would love to find/see this "sidebar" article you speak of! YOUR HOMEWORK assignment is to find this article!!! LOL
The sidebar (actually a 3 page article with several pics) with the M-code Dart appeared in the June 1969 DRAG RACING magazine. They pop up on e-bay often, I got my copy for around $15.00
Quote: Mike, i would love to find/see this "sidebar" article you speak of! YOUR HOMEWORK assignment is to find this article!!! LOL
The sidebar (actually a 3 page article with several pics) with the M-code Dart appeared in the June 1969 DRAG RACING magazine. They pop up on e-bay often, I got my copy for around $15.00
I have 2 of those mags. The only thing stated at the end of the article is that there is only 300 Darts to be built, so you won't see them at a dealer, only from delivery truck to the customer! (not quoted). Makes no mention about M-Barracudas.
Quote: Mike, i would love to find/see this "sidebar" article you speak of! YOUR HOMEWORK assignment is to find this article!!! LOL
The sidebar (actually a 3 page article with several pics) with the M-code Dart appeared in the June 1969 DRAG RACING magazine. They pop up on e-bay often, I got my copy for around $15.00
I have 2 of those mags. The only thing stated at the end of the article is that there is only 300 Darts to be built, so you won't see them at a dealer, only from delivery truck to the customer! (not quoted). Makes no mention about M-Barracudas.
Actually that's not the side-bar article that I was referring to. It was in one of the other magazines in a section at the front where they talk about "rumors" or industry water cooler talk for lack of better terms. I have copies of the Drag Racing Magazine issue/article (that's a scan of the first page of the article I made up there) and it's not the side-bar that I saw back in '69. I'd have to look at some '68 early '69 issues of Hot Rod or Car Craft or one of the "major" publications from back then, who knows it could have been in Motor Trend for how bad my memory has gotten......but I'm sure it was just a short one or two paragraph side-bar saying the 440 was going into the '69 Dart and I started my search for a Dodge dealer that knew..........never found one in the Western Pennsylvania area ......would have been F8 green with a black interior, no vinyl roof and a white tail stripe...no black tail stripe, or white.....I was young and couldn't make up my mind on the tail stripe color.........but for sure GREEN and black interior
Hello Dave, Mike from VA. with the black on black fastback. How has everything been going? Mine should be going together this spring or summer. Love this ink we are getting, finally! Maybe they will go up in value.Just to let you guys know,if you find something for these cars buy it. They only made parts for the cars they built, no extras. For the one guy asking, saw a silver with red interior up around Front Royal Va. about 6 years ago. Later, Mike
Hey Mike, good to see ya on here. I can't wait to see a BLACK 'cuda package car with the satin BLACK 'cuda stripes and scoops!!! Guy from Washington state brought his BLACK M-'cuda coupe to Carlisle in '09 for the reunion, but he didn't have any stripes or the scoops on it. He had an aftermarket/large scooped hood on it. I have a BLACK 340/auto 'cuda package coupe in the stable now, but your's will be done loooong before mine!.........I can only imagine these BLACK 'cudas by seeing what BLACK AAR and T/A's look like with the stripes!!!
Well the right side is the same as any '67-'69 383 A-body 2863900. The left side for 440 is 3462017. The M-codes used a spacer on the right side between the exhaust manifold and the head pipe which brought both sides down to where the 383 exhaust would be in height. Therefore the standard 383 head pipes were used on the 440 M-codes.
I have some spacers made, but hopefully will be having more made.
Quote: Well the right side is the same as any '67-'69 383 A-body 2863900. The left side for 440 is 3462017. The M-codes used a spacer on the right side between the exhaust manifold and the head pipe which brought both sides down to where the 383 exhaust would be in height. Therefore the standard 383 head pipes were used on the 440 M-codes.
I have some spacers made, but hopefully will be having more made.
Count me in on a spacer! I have NOS 383 pipes, so all I need now is a 017...
I would be interested in one of those spacers for my car too if you have any extra. I don't know the exact dimensions but I wouldn't think there would be much to them. What, 3/4" thick and the oval pattern with two 1/2" holes? Anyway, let us know if you make any extras. Much appreciated.
We have the spacer kits in stock if anybody is in need of one. http://www.accurateltd.com/A-Body-Spacer-Plate-Kit_p_341.html P.S. A spacer kit can also be used on the left side for a 440 application if a 383 (002 ,729 casting) manifold is used. This might flip somebody out that is "anal" but guess what? We sell a lot of these kits for that reason and we are in business to supply what people want. And if you don't like the included bolts-use something else. Side note: 67-68 big block a-body cars used a two piece head pipe that was welded together. These were 2.25" halfway back then 2" to the mufflers. One piece head pipes are available with the ugly dents for 1969 as an option but you will need to specify this when ordering.
Moparts members members receive a 10% discount on all products.
Dave, Mike again, Have you heard what size battery is used and color caps? My build sheet said the smaller one (24) but i think they changed it to the big one (27) with the 440?
Quote: Well the right side is the same as any '67-'69 383 A-body 2863900. The left side for 440 is 3462017. The M-codes used a spacer on the right side between the exhaust manifold and the head pipe which brought both sides down to where the 383 exhaust would be in height. Therefore the standard 383 head pipes were used on the 440 M-codes.
I have some spacers made, but hopefully will be having more made.
Count me in on a spacer! I have NOS 383 pipes, so all I need now is a 017...
Jim,
If your any where near my house when going back home to Rockford let me know and I'll show you the M code 69 coupe and the 2 67 formula S fastbacks I have a 383 4 spd and the other is 273 spd missing the engine.
logan426 Martin Wimberly Odin,IL cell 618-322-7587
Quote: Dave, Mike again, Have you heard what size battery is used and color caps? My build sheet said the smaller one (24) but i think they changed it to the big one (27) with the 440?
I can't say for sure with the A-bodies, but I doubt they would have put the 27 battery in them, since they left the yellow cap 24 in the A12 B-bodies.
The right battery is the group 24 Yellow Cap from the factory. I have not seen a group 27 Red Cap in any M-Code, A-bodies. I have the Yellow Cap in my car.
Quote: Big Block Dave, can you post some more photos of some of the 69 440 M-code Cuda's that you have from your files or from the registry if possible.
especially some more pics of that green fast back!
Quote: We have the spacer kits in stock if anybody is in need of one.
Tom? WOW, i thought i was doing something SPECIAL for the M-code A-body guys with a small guy, private run of the spacer that MOST people don't even know existed. NOW you made them?? How many people out there really gotta have them? It's more an anal thing, because that's the way the cars came....(PS your bolts are wrong)
I guess my QUESTION is why would you go thru the trouble to make the spacer that you REALLY don't need on these cars, because a lot of cars have custom bent pipes anyways and few would ever be sold, but your BIG company made incorrect 2 piece head pipes????????????
Quote: Big Block Dave, can you post some more photos of some of the 69 440 M-code Cuda's that you have from your files or from the registry if possible.
especially some more pics of that green fast back!
I don't have a lot of pictures of M-cudas. There were none with the registry when i took over. I have some from like '04 when m-cars were in building Y @ Carlisle(likely film pics). And some from MY/Carlisle's reunion in '09. I see the T5 car above, that was at Carlisle in '09, it has a 6-pak with triangular air cleaner....he got 1 of the trophies in our class, peoples choice, i think they liked the 6-pak, very nice car.
2nd quote...what green fastback are you talking about?
Below is 1 of only 5 white fastbacks in the registry. 1 of 4 with black interior, the other 1 has green interior.
My friends car that was at the reunion @ Carlisle '09. Sold and went to Western Canada........Probably to never be seen in the US again. That's terrible. Awesome original metal car!!
Another 1 lost to Western Canada just before my friends T5 above. Life time, pretty rust free Oklahoma car, guys uncle owned since new or close to it. #'s match motor in garage corner, had a built motor with high rise intake, therefore the scooped hood.
I have an "M" code '69 440 dart and I would like the "correct" exhaust spacer kit. If anybody makes this please post it or e-mail me. Thanks and just call me Mr. Anal.
Quote: Would anyone have a list of the magazines from the day that featured road tests on the 69 M-Code GTS Darts?
June '69 issue of Drag Racing Magazine has a test on the M-code Dart 440, I posted the first page of the test earlier in this thread. That's the only test from that time period that I've seen...but that's just me and what I've found, anyone know of another?
Here's mine, purchased in 1990 in Burnaby, BC for $6500. I bought it off the 2nd owner who had it around a year. Original paperwork allowed me to meet and chat with the original owner, who was a bit ticked as he was supposed to have right of first refusal if sold. He told me some great stories!!
I used it as a DD for a couple of years, and surprised many who thought the quiet little 440 was only a quiet 318 After 30,000+ miles, I took it off the road and brought it with me when I moved back.
Needs some bodywork, but all numbers matching original equipment, from carb to pan, orig. exhaust except replacement from manifolds back. Original T7. Scoops and strpes were removed when original owner had it repainted in the 70s. I found a mint set with gasket years ago from a wrecked 383 cuda. I was also able to purchase a minty rad $$ here on Moparts to replace the original one which split along the top tank seam.
Dave, I heard rumors of a green FB that is new to Manitoba. Is that the green one you mention going to Western Canada?
My 3-29-69 383 GTS has only 8 digits, and so does my Feb built M-Code GTS. I just bought an original Mr. Norms 440 block from a GSS and it has 8 digits on the bellhousing rail. I took pictures today that I will post to show what a real 68 block looks like!
Quote: big block dave can you post some of your m code pics from 2004 carlisle thanks
I'll have to find them, then scan them to post here. I think there was around 8 cars that year. We had 16 cars in '09, but i may not have pics of them all?
Quote: Anyone have the complete VIN stamped on the pad on the block? This was from my 69 GTS M-Code.
Every 69 big block A-body, 383 & 440 cars, have the complete vin # on the block. Every one I've seen anyway.
I thought around Jan 1, '69 they changed to using only the last 8 digits?? On my 2 383 4spd coupes, 1 has full vin, 1 has last 8 digits......cars are before and after January. I have seen a M-cuda motor with full vin. I would say that the only possible M-cuda motors with a full vin# would have to be the C01 built cars. But these cars weren't built exactly on the SPD's. The blue fastback Jim posted was Tom's old car, that is a C01 car and was built around the middle of January.
The white FB i posted is a 302 car and a lot of original parts are dated the middle of April. Even a sticker for the carpet! So if the parts were made the middle of April, when was the car ACTUALLY put together?????????
Quote: There are 2 people above that say they have it ..
Yeah, but one isn't correct and the other hasn't made any extras yet. Or am I missing something?
All i said was his bolts are incorrect, i have no idea about his spacer. All i know is a member on this site was actually very kind enough to ship me HIS original spacer and bolts to allow me to copy the spacer. I was a TOOL MAKER for 22 years before moving into maintenance, so i wanted to see a real part in hand to take my own measurements.
Mike, by you asking us that i guess the car isn't in Frank Remlinger's GTS registry? http://gtsregistry.com/ Or the guy in upstate NY with a M-code Dart ONLY registry?
You could email Frank or call him and he might be able to give you an idea which BATCH your car was in.....BUT the guy in NY should be able to tell you EXACTLY which BATCH.....I have some kind of listing from the M-Dart registry in NY, i'll have to look at it.
Quote: Mike, by you asking us that i guess the car isn't in Frank Remlinger's GTS registry? http://gtsregistry.com/ Or the guy in upstate NY with a M-code Dart ONLY registry?
You could email Frank or call him and he might be able to give you an idea which BATCH your car was in.....BUT the guy in NY should be able to tell you EXACTLY which BATCH.....I have some kind of listing from the M-Dart registry in NY, i'll have to look at it.
Well maybe..............
LS23M9B248***: GTS#8:"M" code 440 auto GTS owned by Mike from OH. It is in need of a full restoration. F8 Green w/ black interior and black vinyl top. It is a "stripe delete" GTS and was equipped with a 3.91 SureGrip.
MikeR from Ohio
but I still haven't had time to figure out an SPD for the Dart, been playing with the A12 M-code road runner, a '68 road runner and now the '69 GTX, one or a few too many toys
Quote: can anyone guess an SPD for an M-code Dart from the VIN sequence number, just looking for a "ballpark" SPD for my Dart VIN: LS23M9B248XXX MikeR
Mike, i found Bob's M-Dart registry list. In '04 he had 89 cars. I was in short contact with him when i was trying to find/contact M-Dart owners to invite to the '09 reunion. He started out ok, but he was useless in helping me. He claimed he had no names/addresses? I told him i would box mail my invites to him and he could mail them to owners if he was afraid to give me owner info. Then if an owner was interested they could contact me...he didn't even want to do that! So any of you M-Dart guys that want to be in for the reunion in 2014 @ Carlisle let me know. I'm working with Ed @ Carlisle rite now setting up the MODTOP gathering for this July!! I'll be bringing my 21k mile survivor Barracuda.
Back to M-Dart registry, Mike your 248 car is either C01 or 114 SPD (more likely C01). The last marked C01 car he has is 245543 then 4 cars with no SPD. The last of those 4 without SPD is 248XXX F8/black interior/black top/no stripe.....is that your car? The next car is 114 SPD, vin 266060.
I'm pretty sure he sold his Dart, so he may not be doing the reg anymore? He handed out this list in '04 @ Carlisle when he and Tom had the M-cars there. The papers have his name, address, ph#. I'll try to call him first and ask to give his info out if he's still doing it.
Quote: Back to M-Dart registry, Mike your 248 car is either C01 or 114 SPD (more likely C01). The last marked C01 car he has is 245543 then 4 cars with no SPD. The last of those 4 without SPD is 248XXX F8/black interior/black top/no stripe.....is that your car? The next car is 114 SPD, vin 266060.
Yep, that would be me......and for someone that asked in a pm it is: F8, black interior, black vinyl roof, stripe delete, 3.91 Suregrip. It was converted to a 4-speed at some point in its life and the front inner fenders were cut for headers but I have original sheet metal to put it back to stock. I like and don't like the stripe delete and don't know if I should put a stripe on it or not I've told the story of how I was looking to buy an M-code 440 Dart back in '69 in the same F8 color but it would not have had a vinyl roof and most likely a black stripe but the white stripe makes it more obvious that it is a muscle car and really like the looks of it in white.........might just put a white tail stripe on it. Funny, if you read my story of looking for a Dodge dealer that knew anything about the M-codes back in '69, how I finally ended up with it.......but that's for another thread
Quote: Back to M-Dart registry, Mike your 248 car is either C01 or 114 SPD (more likely C01). The last marked C01 car he has is 245543 then 4 cars with no SPD. The last of those 4 without SPD is 248XXX F8/black interior/black top/no stripe.....is that your car? The next car is 114 SPD, vin 266060.
Yep, that would be me......
Are you sure it's your car? Did you give him your vin at some time or maybe a prior owner? There's another 998 possible cars with 248XXX, could be more than 1 car like yours?
Quote: Back to M-Dart registry, Mike your 248 car is either C01 or 114 SPD (more likely C01). The last marked C01 car he has is 245543 then 4 cars with no SPD. The last of those 4 without SPD is 248XXX F8/black interior/black top/no stripe.....is that your car? The next car is 114 SPD, vin 266060.
Yep, that would be me......
Are you sure it's your car? Did you give him your vin at some time or maybe a prior owner? There's another 998 possible cars with 248XXX, could be more than 1 car like yours?
I am absolutely 100% positive that is my M-code Dart registered as #8...... "Mike from Ohio"
Quote: Back to M-Dart registry, Mike your 248 car is either C01 or 114 SPD (more likely C01). The last marked C01 car he has is 245543 then 4 cars with no SPD. The last of those 4 without SPD is 248XXX F8/black interior/black top/no stripe.....is that your car? The next car is 114 SPD, vin 266060.
Yep, that would be me......
Are you sure it's your car? Did you give him your vin at some time or maybe a prior owner? There's another 998 possible cars with 248XXX, could be more than 1 car like yours?
I am absolutely 100% positive that is my M-code Dart registered as #8...... "Mike from Ohio"
Mike, what i wrote is off of Bob's M-code ONLY Dart registry with 89 cars.....maybe he got 248XXX off of Frank's GTS registry????
Guys whats the current range of value for a number 4 car on a 5 grading scale ? This would be a cuda coupe, complete running, numbers correct 440 engine, needing complete restoration, with a decent sound body but needing quarters ??
Guys whats the current range of value for a number 4 car on a 5 grading scale ? This would be a cuda coupe, complete running, numbers correct 440 engine, needing complete restoration, with a decent sound body but needing quarters ??
Quote: In the $10K- 15K range right now. The rusty one in my pic above was bought for $10K 5 years ago. I really need to come over and check out your car!
This car isn't rotted like the one you pictured, it's in much better shape, if your blue one is a 5 then I possible down graded this one to far, it should be a 3 then. Possibly 15-20k then. But will these cars actually bring in that dollar ??? Jim, That would be (cars) not car I have the 2 67's fastbacks I need to get on the market. an original owner damaged blue numbers match 383 4 spd as well as a maroon rolling body 273 4 spd.
Quote: please post pics of these m codes in the rough,thats what i like and others like to see ,as we all have seen restored ones.
Yes, i also would like pics. Would you be willing to add it to the registry that i am taking car of? Rite now there are 17 coupes that i have tag info on. There is a couple of weird things about the coupes that i have listed. WE, M-code 'cuda owners, like to see the different cars that still exist. All owners were given up dated info back in '02 by Tom. When i update further, owners will get a new information package with all current cars. I have in the past year added 3 new fastbacks. 1 has only 84xx miles on it!
68mannix, sounds like you have a M-code also? If 'cuda would love to add it to the registry also!! LMK
As stated on the bottom of my post, info isn't given out publicly.
Quote: In the $10K- 15K range right now. The rusty one in my pic above was bought for $10K 5 years ago. I really need to come over and check out your car!
This car isn't rotted like the one you pictured, it's in much better shape, if your blue one is a 5 then I possible down graded this one to far, it should be a 3 then. Possibly 15-20k then. But will these cars actually bring in that dollar ??? Jim, That would be (cars) not car I have the 2 67's fastbacks I need to get on the market. an original owner damaged blue numbers match 383 4 spd as well as a maroon rolling body 273 4 spd.
Logan426....want to trade your coupe for the white fastback i posted the picture of?????????
LS23M9B248***: GTS#8:"M" code 440 auto GTS owned by Mike from OH. It is in need of a full restoration. F8 Green w/ black interior and black vinyl top. It is a "stripe delete" GTS and was equipped with a 3.91 SureGrip.
Now how could you know this without a broadcast sheet? , stripe delete is on he fender tag the rear gear is not .
Quote: So would an M-code Cuda or Dart make a good F.A.S.T. car and has anyone competed with one yet?
I know stock tire size would be an issue but you could go one width size larger (F70-14 to G70-14) from what I'm told for a little help.
I know the intake/carb combo and the manafolds would be a killer for making any real power.
Mike I missed this ... it would run ok but the intake and single 4bbl basically make it a non competitive package. As long as you don't want to run near the top .. into the 9's , it would be a solid 11 sec ride.
LS23M9B248***: GTS#8:"M" code 440 auto GTS owned by Mike from OH. It is in need of a full restoration. F8 Green w/ black interior and black vinyl top. It is a "stripe delete" GTS and was equipped with a 3.91 SureGrip.
Now how could you know this without a broadcast sheet? , stripe delete is on he fender tag the rear gear is not .
Well John you got me there but it still has the original diff and axle in it and the 3.91 tag on the diff....but I know that's still a guess....and there is no sign of the stripe on the tail of the original paint or the tag another guess, your right.
I'll need a ruling on this then, what do you guys think, did this M-code Dart GTS have a stripe or not....this is the original paint and it was a Southwest car and always garage kept since it was hauled back from there...a solid car and I can't find any signs of a tail stripe ever
I'd say stripe delete, did you pull the side markers and check for stripe in the marker relief pocket? That's going to be a nice one when you get her done!!!
Quote: So would an M-code Cuda or Dart make a good F.A.S.T. car and has anyone competed with one yet?
I know stock tire size would be an issue but you could go one width size larger (F70-14 to G70-14) from what I'm told for a little help.
All M-code 'cudas(and Darts) came with E70-14s, cause they're ALL 'cuda package cars. As well as ALL Formula "S" and any 340 or 383 'cuda package cars! Even 318 cars if optioned for certain things. My 318 survivor MODTOP came factory with the 5.5" wheels/deep dish wheel covers/E70-14 Firestone white streak tires!!!
PS...My MODTOP will be in the MODTOP gathering in building Y at Carlisle this July.....LOOK ME UP AND BS M-CODES!!!!!!!!
Quote: I'd say stripe delete, did you pull the side markers and check for stripe in the marker relief pocket? That's going to be a nice one when you get her done!!!
Thanks Dave, the markers and the drip rail were the first places I looked and so did the friend that I bought it from also looked and looked and...well you know. Yeah I can't wait to get started on it and running, it was the second car that I wanted back in '69, the first was a '69 383 GTS in F8, black interior no vinyl roof and then I read about the 440 M-code and couldn't find a dealer that knew anything about it or wanted to look or even try to order one. Got so disappointed that I ordered a road runner in F5, black, bucket seat, console interior (this one, that photo is back in the summer of '69), my parents were going to have to co-sign for the loan and mom didn't want to see me get a "compact" waited 30-years and found one by coincidence from a best friend I made through Mopars and dirt bikes, who'd a thunk it
The real way to tell if it is a stripe delete would be the GTS letters on the front fenders! All 69 stripe delete cars had these, if not, then it could have been a stripe that was removed at the dealer, seen it before! Mine came with GTSPORT stripe on one side and DART SWINGER on the other, maybe the dealer noticed it and removed it, the dealer mine came from didn't notice or didn't care.
Quote: The real way to tell if it is a stripe delete would be the GTS letters on the front fenders! All 69 stripe delete cars had these, if not, then it could have been a stripe that was removed at the dealer,
Beat me too it .
Mike you know I had to throw that out there about the tag
On a side note I can't find those 69 GTS emblems anymore , are they still repopped ?
Quote: The real way to tell if it is a stripe delete would be the GTS letters on the front fenders! All 69 stripe delete cars had these, if not, then it could have been a stripe that was removed at the dealer,
Beat me too it .
Mike you know I had to throw that out there about the tag
On a side note I can't find those 69 GTS emblems anymore , are they still repopped ?
I knew that was coming from you, I was waiting for your next reply before I posted about the callouts. You taught me to be thick skinned or go back on the porch and watch the real dogs play
And now I know why it HAS the GTS callouts on the front fenders.....don't have a photo here on this computer but I'll post it later this evening. Thanks guys
Hmmmmmmmmm a running, well tuned, 383 '69 Dart GTS in F8 green WITHOUT a vinyl roof for trade that going to cause some sleepless nights...thanks John
Quote: The real way to tell if it is a stripe delete would be the GTS letters on the front fenders! All 69 stripe delete cars had these, if not, then it could have been a stripe that was removed at the dealer, seen it before! Mine came with GTSPORT stripe on one side and DART SWINGER on the other, maybe the dealer noticed it and removed it, the dealer mine came from didn't notice or didn't care.
Quote: The real way to tell if it is a stripe delete would be the GTS letters on the front fenders! All 69 stripe delete cars had these, if not, then it could have been a stripe that was removed at the dealer,
Beat me too it .
Mike you know I had to throw that out there about the tag
On a side note I can't find those 69 GTS emblems anymore , are they still repopped ?
I have several of the repops, I am sure they are still available, I will check into it.
Quote: The real way to tell if it is a stripe delete would be the GTS letters on the front fenders! All 69 stripe delete cars had these, if not, then it could have been a stripe that was removed at the dealer,
Beat me too it .
Mike you know I had to throw that out there about the tag
On a side note I can't find those 69 GTS emblems anymore , are they still repopped ?
I have several of the repops, I am sure they are still available, I will check into it.
So do you think it might be a legit stripe delete Dart and if I put a tail stripe on it do I have to remove the GTS callouts and give them to John
Quote: The real way to tell if it is a stripe delete would be the GTS letters on the front fenders! All 69 stripe delete cars had these, if not, then it could have been a stripe that was removed at the dealer,
Beat me too it .
Mike you know I had to throw that out there about the tag
On a side note I can't find those 69 GTS emblems anymore , are they still repopped ?
I have several of the repops, I am sure they are still available, I will check into it.
So do you think it might be a legit stripe delete Dart and if I put a tail stripe on it do I have to remove the GTS callouts and give them to John
I'll take whatever you want to give , they have the right amount of PATINA to match the orange peel in my paint job .
Quote: Dan, got your PM, sent one back, now i see this post! 20 notches in the reg i have, people have said around 60 notches built.
Was this car in michigan in the mid eighties...said plymouth on the side and had 3320 miles on it.
I'm not sure where it was purchased, but in '88 it went to Bowling Green, KY with a title from MN and had 3291 original miles!!!! It was titled in KY on 4/27/89, driven around for the summer and sold on 12/12/89 with 6488 miles, went to Milwaukee, Wisconsin and stayed in a private collection until i purchased it on 10/12/06 with 6502 original miles!! The guy had it exactly 2 months shy of 17 years and never registered it, only added 14 miles on the odometer!!(to bad the 1st guy added 3200 miles). It now has 6700 miles on it. As far as i know it's the lowest mileage M-cuda in my registry...Hoover's car has 8500 miles and a newly added car has 8334 original miles............Did you hear or know about it in the eighties? I have no idea about PLYMOUTH on the sides. I'll have to call the guy that bought it in '88 and see if he happens to have pics as bought?.........I know of a guy that called Norm Verhage about the car back when it was for sale and Norm told him Plymouth never made a 440 coupe, so he didn't buy it. He's sorry now that he never bought it.
Quote: How about one in F8 - "ivy green metallic"? ..... with the "fancy wheel covers"
I have a nice set of those hubcaps I've been saving forever. I know as soon as I would sell them I'll find a Cuda that needs them!!
Did ya know those FANCY caps only fit on the deeper/wider 5.5" wheels???
Oh yes. I've been through enough big block A-bodies alone to learn that, which is why I've hung onto them. I had a really nice pair of the Dodge Mag-style ones that when I finally let go of, I found a nice GTS that I needed them for. Which is why I think I should sell these. Because as soon as I do I'll stumble onto a car I need them for!!
I forgot what I did with the pics of the 1,500 mile M-Code Dart I inspected a few years back, though the grill was repainted and had Cragars on it the rest was stock.
Quote: The driver's side valve cover does not look like it's correct for an HP motor? Which motors came with the chrome valve covers?
It's correct, the difference has nothing to do with a HP engine, it's the body style in combination with the manifold style. The #7 plug wire on a BB a-body routes around the back - just like a c-body.
Quote: The driver's side valve cover does not look like it's correct for an HP motor? Which motors came with the chrome valve covers?
It's correct, the difference has nothing to do with a HP engine, it's the body style in combination with the manifold style. The #7 plug wire on a BB a-body routes around the back - just like a c-body.
Yes , I always get a chuckle out of HP vs. non HP valve covers , all depends on what car platform the engine is installed in .
Why doesn't someone combine the M-code Cuda and M-code Dart into one 1969 A13 Registry something like the '69 A12 Registry......just a thought. Seems like there's a fair amount of interest for both models.
MikeR
Not trying to make more work for anyone but they do seem to share the same options like the A12 road runners and Super Bees that are one Registry
Quote: Why doesn't someone combine the M-code Cuda and M-code Dart into one 1969 A13 Registry something like the '69 A12 Registry......just a thought. Seems like there's a fair amount of interest for both models.
MikeR
Not trying to make more work for anyone but they do seem to share the same options like the A12 road runners and Super Bees that are one Registry
thanks that will be great and thanks for all the pics from everybody so far as i live in california and have only seen 2 m code cudas in the last 25 years,i dont get to go east ever as the last and only i made it to the nats was in 1982.
Quote: Sorry for the delay, had to take a second look. The VIN is BH29M342234. What can you experts tell me about this one?
BloFish(chp?) before i speak of the M car above can you answer me this? I was just in Cali last week for the first time and really wanted to run over some motor cyclists! Is this BS they pull legal there....on the highway(you guys call freeway) traffic comes to a crawl, motorcycles cruise rite up the dotted lines between cars and up the shoulders???...Then on city streets 3 lanes of traffic at a RED light, the AH's ride again up the lines between cars to the red light and take off first!!!!!!! Riding in the HOV lane with no passenger. What the hell is that BS???? I'm GLAD i don't live there cause i'd be in JAIL!!!!!!! I road motorcycles for years and would NEVER pull that BS..............
On to the subject matter. The M-code you posted is in the registry, it is listed as the original owner, A4 silver, black interior, 302 SPD. Basically the same as most, no special options. I don't know when this info was added in the registry so it could be owned by someone else now? What else are you looking for? LMK, Dave
Most of which you described Dave, is legal in Ca. Believe it or not. It unfortunately provides me the plenty of job security. As for the car, I have been friends with the original owner since 1980, he recently passed, and the family is looking to sell. just don't know if I want to spend the Benjamin's.
Quote: Most of which you described Dave, is legal in Ca. Believe it or not. It unfortunately provides me the plenty of job security. As for the car, I have been friends with the original owner since 1980, he recently passed, and the family is looking to sell. just don't know if I want to spend the Benjamin's.
Do you have any specifics on the car? Condition, originality?
Dave, take it easy on Kalifornika cyclists, don't you know they are invincable? Russ Brown came out of Milwaukee, we know him well around here, he WILL take care of any cages that run over a motorcycle... Now back to your regularly scheduled A-Body discussion!
If any one in this viewing audiance has a M-code Barracuda with these vin#'s let me know and i'll send you in the right direction for some paperwork available to proven owners. The first 2 of these aren't in my registry. #'s are: BH29M9B272271...dealership record BH29M9B272275...misc history '78-'82 BH29M9B309289...dealership record...PLUS i know the selling dealer has a bunch of papers for it and they would LOVE to know where the car is today!!!!
Dave ,are those first two # out of the first batch produced? Just thinking that's a big spread between the first two and the last, mine is only three off the last one and built in march. Mike
Quote: Dave ,are those first two # out of the first batch produced? Just thinking that's a big spread between the first two and the last, mine is only three off the last one and built in march. Mike
Mike, yes definately 1st batch(C01). The first batch by far has the most number of cars in the registry and the last batch(518) only has 7 cars so far.
Wow! Lots of options. The am/fm is something I have never seen in person. And fast manual steering! With the 440 it must have been a bear! I Had a 66 Formula S with it, nearly new, at speed it was ok, lots of feedback and shake/vibration/shimmy over rough roads, a little hard to parallel park. To the point I considered changing it out, but traded for a '64 426S instead.
Just stumbled on this 440 Dart for sale! $175K ?????????? The most i've ever heard or seen an M-code A-body sell for is $105k, i think this one would break the world record books!!!!!!!!!!! http://www.rpmcollection.com/1969-dodge-dart/
It's hard to tell from the engine bay pic on that black Dart above, but it looks like there is a tape-style wrap on the engine harness at the bulkhead connector to possibly divert the wires away from the manifolds. Mine also has this, and I've always wondered if it was factory. Any thoughts?
Quote: It's hard to tell from the engine bay pic on that black Dart above, but it looks like there is a tape-style wrap on the engine harness at the bulkhead connector to possibly divert the wires away from the manifolds. Mine also has this, and I've always wondered if it was factory. Any thoughts?
Grant
Not sure on your question but the chrome valve covers are wrong as well as the right side having the heater hose bracket!!!...the ad also states power steering and brakes?
yes it arrived safe and sound just as promised,even got to meet up with him and his brother at the fling today,hopefully ill be able to make carlisle one of these years and meet up with you guys on east coast.
Quote: big block dave any pics of 2004 carlisle yet?as im looking for pics of this barn find displayed at one of the reunions thanks
Andy i FINALLY scanned the photos onto a memory stick! But them i couldn't find them on the stick???
The car you pictured isn't 1 of the ones i have pics of. It could have been there or shown up later and i didn't see it?? But your kinda jogging my memory and i'm thinking there was a car like that there????......i'll try to contact a couple of the owners that were there in '04 and see what they have for pics....i'll also have a better look at all my pics and see if yours could be in the back ground?
I wasn't into these cars as much in '04 as i am a coupe lover and there was only 1 of them there. I was content knowing i had a rarer 383-S 4spd coupe at home. (383-S 4spd coupe-53 built, 440 coupe-60 built). At that time also i thought i would never own a 440 because they only came with auto trans PLUS the cost!!!!! I'll get the pics on here one way or another.
Quote: yes it arrived safe and sound just as promised,even got to meet up with him and his brother at the fling today,hopefully ill be able to make carlisle one of these years and meet up with you guys on east coast.
Dave is a good guy. He has more Mopar projects than any man can do in a lifetime. He finally had to sit down and decide which ones he could get done,and which ones that he needed to sell. The Cuda needs quite a bit of work,but will be a sweet car when it's done. I'm glad to see that the Code M Cuda will be restored. Hopefully you can get to Carlsile. If you haven't been before,it's worth the trip.
Quote: It's hard to tell from the engine bay pic on that black Dart above, but it looks like there is a tape-style wrap on the engine harness at the bulkhead connector to possibly divert the wires away from the manifolds. Mine also has this, and I've always wondered if it was factory. Any thoughts?
Grant
Not sure on your question but the chrome valve covers are wrong as well as the right side having the heater hose bracket!!!...the ad also states power steering and brakes?
Why would there not be a heater hose bracket on the inner fender? My 69 383 dart has one and it stands up just like the one in the picture. If there is not supposed to be one then what keeps the heater hoses off the exhaust manifold?
But yes not only are the chrome valve covers not correct, they are 67/68 style , it also has a prestolite dual point distributor which they didn't put on a 69 440 A body.
The engine photo shows no power steering or brakes ????
Quote: It's hard to tell from the engine bay pic on that black Dart above, but it looks like there is a tape-style wrap on the engine harness at the bulkhead connector to possibly divert the wires away from the manifolds. Mine also has this, and I've always wondered if it was factory. Any thoughts?
Grant
Not sure on your question but the chrome valve covers are wrong as well as the right side having the heater hose bracket!!!...the ad also states power steering and brakes?
Why would there not be a heater hose bracket on the inner fender? My 69 383 dart has one and it stands up just like the one in the picture. If there is not supposed to be one then what keeps the heater hoses off the exhaust manifold?
But yes not only are the chrome valve covers not correct, they are 67/68 style , it also has a prestolite dual point distributor which they didn't put on a 69 440 A body.
The engine photo shows no power steering or brakes ????
The heater hose on the right side valve cover is what i was talking about, not the bracket on the fender well. Also i was just stating about the ad saying pwr steering/ brakes but we know that wasn't an option on the M-codes, the seller doesn't know better!
Quote: Dave is a good guy. He has more Mopar projects than any man can do in a lifetime. He finally had to sit down and decide which ones he could get done,and which ones that he needed to sell. The Cuda needs quite a bit of work,but will be a sweet car when it's done. I'm glad to see that the Code M Cuda will be restored. Hopefully you can get to Carlsile. If you haven't been before,it's worth the trip.
Pete, when i started to read these first 2 sentences, i seriously thought you were talking about ME!!! Cause that's my name and the project situation is the same!!!! LOL
OK, FINALLY!!!! Carlisle '04. Not sure if i have pics of every car, i think there was 8 cars. The pics aren't great. These are just individual pics, i have more of the same cars. I'll start with this really cool one being towed by the old wagon. This is Bob's Dart, he is the guy that has/had the M-Dart registry in upstate NY.
great pics,anyone have pics of my green one displayed as a barn find at carlisle?big block dave do you have any pics of the factory black with blue interior fastback that was at ron slobes?
Quote: great pics,anyone have pics of my green one displayed as a barn find at carlisle?big block dave do you have any pics of the factory black with blue interior fastback that was at ron slobes?
Andy, was your car in an actual "barn finds" display? Because Carlisle just started that a couple years ago and i would have taken pics or remembered a 440 'cuda????
I have no pics of a black/blue interior FB. There is one in the registry out of MO....where is Ron Slobes, close to MO?
Quote: Dave- not sure where you are in NY, but there was a really nice F8 green M-code fastback in Rye a few years back. Any idea?
Jim, there is a F5 FB in Mamaroneck south of me, but it could be the one your talking about. If you look on page 6 of this post, the very dark looking FB with M CODE on the front plate is this F5 car south of me. I'm pretty sure it's painted F8 now, he's had it a long time.
Quote: Dave is a good guy. He has more Mopar projects than any man can do in a lifetime. He finally had to sit down and decide which ones he could get done,and which ones that he needed to sell. The Cuda needs quite a bit of work,but will be a sweet car when it's done. I'm glad to see that the Code M Cuda will be restored. Hopefully you can get to Carlsile. If you haven't been before,it's worth the trip.
Pete, when i started to read these first 2 sentences, i seriously thought you were talking about ME!!! Cause that's my name and the project situation is the same!!!! LOL
I hear you Dave. I'm in the same boat. But Dave that just sold the code M Cuda to Andy,has 50 cars. Mostly Challengers and 66/67 Chargers.
What do you guys think a descent driver quality M code dart or 'Cuda would go for? With all the factory hard to find correct parts and pieces. I am really considering selling my car to try and get one. If I can find one.... Anyone tradesies????
big block dave the black/ blue would be same car as ron slobe was in aurora mo. now is in cali.,i would say a driver qulity m code with all the correct parts mid 30s give or take on colors and history.
I documented the black survivor Dart a few years back. It had Cragars on it when I saw it and provided the correct wheels the car now wears. Another issue was the grill is painted black somewhere in it's life.
there was black dart with crager mags that sold new at white bear dodge that i have not seen scines about 85 . when i had my m code f8 green black int.the black one had a p for motor code guy told me my car had wrong code. mine was also sold new at white bear dodge.white bear dodge in minnesota
Quote: there was black dart with crager mags that sold new at white bear dodge that i have not seen scines about 85 . when i had my m code f8 green black int.the black one had a p for motor code guy told me my car had wrong code. mine was also sold new at white bear dodge.white bear dodge in minnesota
seems to be quite a few with the H code still in the vin also... probably were ones taken off the line out of sequence to be used to fill an M code order is all.. seen a number of hemi and 6 pack cars missing the engine Vin letter completely also..WOW they must have been lax about that stuff back then..
I believe there are about 3 early A12 RR's known with an H code and all within a few SO numbers of each other... But it is definitely the exception and only a very few of the first ones released. I never heard of any real J code cars with wrong vins? I would need some good documentation to buy into one. Is there a broadcast sheet with the P code 440 Cuda or just someone's say so?
Quote: My buddy has a Black M code Dart, white vinyl top, parked in his garage for 25 yrs! Never takes it out! Ever!
Pics and details would be cool!!!!
I would love to post pics, but the owner my friend to be frank is a weirdo ! Lol it's a crying shame he never takes it out it. He owns a bunch of other mopars but never takes any of them out . He has gone to every mopar Nats since the very beginning as well as every Carlisle, plus all the local swap meets cruises etc and never have I seen him once driving any of his cars in over thirty years I know him. To put things in perspective, when he originally bought the dart he made me wear a blindfold and took a million side streets to finally see the car in a rented garage! The funny thing was my cousin owned the garage he rented so I knew and still know we're it's parked ! Lol And to add insult to injury I was in his wedding party !
Quote: anybody have some new m code project pics yet?
Andy, thanks for adding your newly purchased M-cuda to the registry!!! As i said i do kinda remember it at Carlisle in '04 with the hay bales. Still not sure why it wasn't already in the registry???? I emailed Joe to see if he had any pics of it and he doesn't. I'll contact others that were there in '04. Thanks again, Dave
Dave are you putting an asterisk in the registry about the REPOP fender tag the current seller had made up so he could sell the car ?
and I thought only the "stripe delete" cars got the GTS emblems on the front fenders??? And why does it have an intake manifold (or is that the block casting?) with a Nov '68 casting date and a very late VIN
Since the car has been repainted and it's not in the hands of the original owner with no documentation the only things on the fender tag that are legit are the VIN, the engine code and the trans code, everything else would be in question.
The car would have been better if left without a tag .
I doubt the intake is the original, no way of knowing that.
Quote: Since the car has been repainted and it's not in the hands of the original owner with no documentation the only things on the fender tag that are legit are the VIN, the engine code and the trans code, everything else would be in question.
The car would have been better if left without a tag .
I doubt the intake is the original, no way of knowing that.
but the intake must have been still bolted to the "original matching numbers" engine for all of those years...........
Quote: Since the car has been repainted and it's not in the hands of the original owner with no documentation the only things on the fender tag that are legit are the VIN, the engine code and the trans code, everything else would be in question.
The car would have been better if left without a tag .
I doubt the intake is the original, no way of knowing that.
but the intake must have been still bolted to the "original matching numbers" engine for all of those years...........
I think I am missing the sarcasm in your original and/or this post ?
Quote: Since the car has been repainted and it's not in the hands of the original owner with no documentation the only things on the fender tag that are legit are the VIN, the engine code and the trans code, everything else would be in question.
The car would have been better if left without a tag .
I doubt the intake is the original, no way of knowing that.
but the intake must have been still bolted to the "original matching numbers" engine for all of those years...........
I think I am missing the sarcasm in your original and/or this post ?
I guess I just find it odd to show that date on the intake if it is or isn't the original manifold? It's like showing the unpainted made up fender tag that makes those in the know wonder what else doesn't add up here I'm not saying it's not the original engine "block" but why show parts that most likely are not original to it????? Don't mind me I'm just rambling...carry on
Dave are you putting an asterisk in the registry about the REPOP fender tag the current seller had made up so he could sell the car ?
John, currently i only do the M-cuda registry. But yes it is noted as we all see here. Could be a repop on the fender to save the original from some AH stealing it????? I don't know Dart tags so all the codes look ok to me? This isn't advertized as an original car but modified. Does it have the correct left exaust manifold, hard to tell in the ebay pic? I just looked on Bob's 440 Dart registry sheets and this car isn't on there as far as the vin#, closest one is 351850, so it's a new one?.....The thing that stands out to me that it's a made up tag is the SPD. It's not a correct SPD according to Bob's registry papers?????????
Dave are you putting an asterisk in the registry about the REPOP fender tag the current seller had made up so he could sell the car ?
John, currently i only do the M-cuda registry. But yes it is noted as we all see here. Could be a repop on the fender to save the original from some AH stealing it????? I don't know Dart tags so all the codes look ok to me? This isn't advertized as an original car but modified. Does it have the correct left exaust manifold, hard to tell in the ebay pic? I just looked on Bob's 440 Dart registry sheets and this car isn't on there as far as the vin#, closest one is 351850, so it's a new one?.....The thing that stands out to me that it's a made up tag is the SPD. It's not a correct SPD according to Bob's registry papers?????????
if you go back and read up in this thread where this car popped up it is mentioned the car had no tag and theguy had one made and relisted it .
I didn't realize you only did Barracudas , hopefully Barry Washington sees this and makes note in his registry .
Most of the codes are correct on the tag, some are not and some are missing. I have seen dozens of M and H-Code tags and all I can tell you is that he was an idiot to even worry about the tag. Unless there is a picture of the original tag somewhere there is no way to know for sure what was on the tag even with a broadcast sheet. See Barry's thread on SPD's...
Quote: Most of the codes are correct on the tag, some are not and some are missing. I have seen dozens of M and H-Code tags and all I can tell you is that he was an idiot to even worry about the tag. Unless there is a picture of the original tag somewhere there is no way to know for sure what was on the tag even with a broadcast sheet. See Barry's thread on SPD's...
Yeah i realize SPD's aren't accurate. These M-codes were built in specific batches. That's why i said the 416 wasn't a good SPD. My white fastback is a 302 SPD but a lot of parts are dated the middle of April! That's 6 weeks later, so if the parts are dated 6 weeks later, when was the car ACTUALLY put together?????.........Can ANYONE else with original cars with date coded parts help out here? Just curious with SPD's and dated parts!!!!!
Quote: Yeah i realize SPD's aren't accurate. These M-codes were built in specific batches. That's why i said the 416 wasn't a good SPD. My white fastback is a 302 SPD but a lot of parts are dated the middle of April! That's 6 weeks later, so if the parts are dated 6 weeks later, when was the car ACTUALLY put together?????.........Can ANYONE else with original cars with date coded parts help out here? Just curious with SPD's and dated parts!!!!!
Cars done in batches were rarely built on the SPD , A12 road runners and superbees are perfect examples, you have cars with 4/26 SPD that were built well into JUNE. The SPD is just that a SCHEDULED date, not the actual. The original engine to my 2/10 SPD 69 bee was assembled on 2/11 that tells me the car was built later than 2/10 .
Driver's side/left exhaust manifold; what's the original part number for an M-code Dart and anyone have one to buy for my M-Dart? What's an alternative part number exhaust manifold to use over the original if I can't find one? TIA.
The manifold you want is 3462017 $$$$$, alternative would be a 383 and hope it clears the steering column and box if power steering and I guess you would want to use the spacer that goes on thee right side to get the pipe in the right spot unless you are having custom pipes bent? The good 383 left is 2946729 , or you could try the C body HP 2863409 , it would work in a pinch on a low deck and from the top looks like the same manifold and I want to say it is the manifold that Accurate was modifying and selling.
I have a nice one of the C body manifold and a pair of jet hot coated and ported 383 manifolds
Andy, would you happen to have any pics of the green fastback M-code that was at Carlisle this same year? The car was without motor/trans, needed to be restored. It was in building "Y" with hay bales in front as a "BARN FIND"?
Andy, would you happen to have any pics of the green fastback M-code that was at Carlisle this same year? The car was without motor/trans, needed to be restored. It was in building "Y" with hay bales in front as a "BARN FIND"?
There was a green m code Dart at Sam Brown Dodge in Salem Ohio when it was new. He raced a b-body at Quaker City drag strip. I never saw the car again after seeing it in the showroom.
Andy, would you happen to have any pics of the green fastback M-code that was at Carlisle this same year? The car was without motor/trans, needed to be restored. It was in building "Y" with hay bales in front as a "BARN FIND"?
Sorry, but I don't.
Here is one from 2007.
Andy thanks anyways, still looking for pics of it.......That's my F5 M-coupe you just posted. Look back thru this thread and you'll see a couple more pics of it. Also just a few posts above is my car that someone took a pic of at a show in '89. That's when a guy just put it back on the road! At that time the car only had 3200 miles on it!!!!!
Quote: Scott from Oklahoma had his black on black M-fastback at Carlisle for sale. Not sure how pics turned out. I'll down load them in the next few days.
He's a talker and i spoke with him for a good hour. He asked me the day earlier about black cars in the reg. I let him know that there are 7 total, 5 fastbacks, 2 coupes. Maybe he'll change his ad?
use to be 4 that i knew of in vancouver in the 80s.3 were blue and one was brown with sliding sunroof.oneof the blue ones sat on 41st avenue for ages in a open falling apart garage.it was aproject but had a chance to buy for 500 bucks back then and passed.the brown one could be had for 4500.my friends uncle use to own it.he also had a race hemi 69 cuda."harry claire moon" was written on the doors.one of the other blue ones had cragars and the other was b5 blue all stock.they were all fastbacks.there was also a green fastback in the 70s that was totaled.i still have the scoops from that cuda....somewhere.
Did this M-Code Dart really only sell for $25,900 Well I know it's ebay (shill, etc) but was there a reserve on it and was it that low of a reserve There are way less M-Code A-bodies than B-bodies (A12) out there and I'd like to find a '69 A12 for $26k in that condition Anyone know about this or who bought it?
Quote: Did this M-Code Dart really only sell for $25,900 Well I know it's ebay (shill, etc) but was there a reserve on it and was it that low of a reserve There are way less M-Code A-bodies than B-bodies (A12) out there and I'd like to find a '69 A12 for $26k in that condition Anyone know about this or who bought it?
Quote: Did this M-Code Dart really only sell for $25,900 Well I know it's ebay (shill, etc) but was there a reserve on it and was it that low of a reserve There are way less M-Code A-bodies than B-bodies (A12) out there and I'd like to find a '69 A12 for $26k in that condition Anyone know about this or who bought it?
This car was discussed before , issues abound and a made up fender tag ...
John, knew it was discussed but not after the auction ended. Didn't know what it sold for until today when I found the June 03 ended auction. Even with a made up fender tag shouldn't it be pretty easy to know what it did or didn't have and what besides the 440, color or a rear axle ratio (if that) could you put into or on an M-code Cuda/Dart to increase its value by much? You could throw away the fender tag IMO on an M-code Cuda/Dart and still figure out what it was or could have had for options.....unless stripe delete raises the value by 50% then I'm making up a fender tag with that option or is that without that stripe option
Just surprised that a Mopar with that low production numbers is only pulling around $25k in that condition
Like John said there were lots of issues, including the flipper/dealer that had no clue and was a little too full of himself when questions were asked.
Quote: Did this M-Code Dart really only sell for $25,900 Well I know it's ebay (shill, etc) but was there a reserve on it and was it that low of a reserve There are way less M-Code A-bodies than B-bodies (A12) out there and I'd like to find a '69 A12 for $26k in that condition Anyone know about this or who bought it?
This car was discussed before , issues abound and a made up fender tag ...
John, knew it was discussed but not after the auction ended. Didn't know what it sold for until today when I found the June 03 ended auction. Even with a made up fender tag shouldn't it be pretty easy to know what it did or didn't have and what besides the 440, color or a rear axle ratio (if that) could you put into or on an M-code Cuda/Dart to increase its value by much? You could throw away the fender tag IMO on an M-code Cuda/Dart and still figure out what it was or could have had for options.....unless stripe delete raises the value by 50% then I'm making up a fender tag with that option or is that without that stripe option
Just surprised that a Mopar with that low production numbers is only pulling around $25k in that condition
This is true , the value it sold for is probably the same as it would be without the tag, other than colors and stripe the tag is really devoid of any important info, you need the Broadcast Sheet to know if it had 3.55's or 3.91's originally as that is not on the tag .
Did any of you see the M code Dart on Racingjunk.com? I think 15K would take it home with both engines. It is a strip car so it look like the interior is gone but he may have it stored somewhere. It has (maybe) correct motor to go with.... Add#2612075
Quote: Did any of you see the M code Dart on Racingjunk.com? I think 15K would take it home with both engines. It is a strip car so it look like the interior is gone but he may have it stored somewhere. It has (maybe) correct motor to go with.... Add#2612075
Talked to dad about the cuda he raced. Dave reed bought it brand new Ryan motors here in Sioux falls sd. It was triple black auto car with steel wheels n small hub caps. Dad prepped it new then when Dave had to leave to go work for raven he had dad race it the summer of 69. Like I said we both wished we could of saved it or at least gotten the tags before it got crushed.
It sat on a farm on south edge of Hartford sd (10 blocks south of my house) when the people moved in there they called local salvage yard Oakleaf crushing and they came in and crushed it along with a lot of other cars. It was hit in the left front corner kinda hard. Fixable but in early 80's it was just a wrecked car. Been out to Oakleaf and only barracuda they have is a 67 notchback.
That's a cool looking picture from back in the day!! Maybe some one in your family has some kind of papers with the cars vin# on it?......Look forward to seeing more pics, thanks!
Hey Dave, are you interested in another mod top Cuda? Real rough just for parts from what my buddy told me , if interested I'll send you his number. Mike
Quote: That's a cool looking picture from back in the day!! Maybe some one in your family has some kind of papers with the cars vin# on it?......Look forward to seeing more pics, thanks!
No paper sadly. dad has not seen dave reed for i bet 20+ years! I will have to try and find other pics n scan them.
That one has made me look a couple of times. From what I can see, it seems to have been built at the end of the first run, and although the VON # is very close to the one's previous, the VIN is considerably after. Maybe it was an extra 383 car pulled and added to the run?
Another M-fastback is on ebay now. This car was actually on ebay in August 2010 also but didn't sell. This was a new vin# car to the registry when it appeared in 2010, but when i sent an email for more info and to add to the registry they never responded. Now this auction shows the fender tag so all the info will be added to the reg. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/?cmd=View...RK%3AMEWAX%3AIT
I bought this one two weeks ago. Owner history since new, matching engine, fender tag, possibly a build sheet in seats, rust free car. Restored in the 80s still in great shape. Missing drivers correct exhaust manifold. Needs some TLC dash, correct stripes, wheels etc. I'll have questions so be ready!
Quote: Another M-fastback is on ebay now. This car was actually on ebay in August 2010 also but didn't sell. This was a new vin# car to the registry when it appeared in 2010, but when i sent an email for more info and to add to the registry they never responded. Now this auction shows the fender tag so all the info will be added to the reg. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/?cmd=View...RK%3AMEWAX%3AIT
I bought this one two weeks ago. Owner history since new, matching engine, fender tag, possibly a build sheet in seats, rust free car. Restored in the 80s still in great shape. Missing drivers correct exhaust manifold. Needs some TLC dash, correct stripes, wheels etc. I'll have questions so be ready!
Quote: Another M-fastback is on ebay now. This car was actually on ebay in August 2010 also but didn't sell. This was a new vin# car to the registry when it appeared in 2010, but when i sent an email for more info and to add to the registry they never responded. Now this auction shows the fender tag so all the info will be added to the reg. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/?cmd=View...RK%3AMEWAX%3AIT
Bring it on!! We'll be glad to help!! Answered your post on stripes.
Quote: Was 69 the first yeat the "Cuda" designation was used for a factory hi po Barracuda?
Yes! Most people would say the 'cuda started in '70, but they simply don't know about the '69 'cuda package. '69 'cuda package cars are rarely seen at shows.
Another question and observation. Prior to buying my M code car I researched what I could find on line to see what to look for. I'm now planning on using a couple resources to help see what's right? The two sources with the best picture were the green "mopar nats gold" certified car that sold at Russo Steele and a white car that sold at Bay Motors. I noticed the white Cuda had incorrect 440 Cuda decals on the fenders but the certified green car doesn't appear to have torque boxes in front of the rear springs?? My car and the white car has them, assume all cars were like equipped?
Quote: What's the difference between a B-body 22" radiator #2949053 (383/440) and an A-body (A13) 22" radiator 2949065?
And if anyone has a 2949065 radiator or even the top tank or PM me please. Thanks
Mine had a 2898045 68 B-body rad in it when I got it and the mounting holes were spaced further apart, they had drilled some extra holes on the passenger side rad support to mount it.
Quote: What's the difference between a B-body 22" radiator #2949053 (383/440) and an A-body (A13) 22" radiator 2949065?
And if anyone has a 2949065 radiator or even the top tank or PM me please. Thanks [/quote
Good luck finding one.they go for a grand and up any condition
This is exactly why I'm so confused as to why these M-Code A-bodies don't get the price they surely (don't call me Shirley ) are worth. It's easier to find an A12 air filter base than a left exhaust manifold or a correct radiator and you can find 26" reproduction 054 and 055 radiator that were far less common than a 22" radiator in a B-body road runner that they made over 84,000 of them in 1969 with at least half of them or more with a 22" radiator.... okay I feel a little better after that
Bob, come on MAKE A REPO 22" RADIATOR FOR PETE'S (no make that for) MIKE'S SAKE!! I know I'm not the first one to ask you for a 22" rad, surely (I said don't call me Shirley ) I won't be the last either.
Quote: thanks, any difference on the top tank other than the part number?
Quote: Rhinodart said :
Top hose location is the same, bottom hose is not.
BESIDE the part number and THE HOSE LOCATION? (big font, little font, use Chrysler blah, blah, blah )
I forget that you suffer from A.D.S. , thinking maybe someone can make a tag for you to solder over the wrong number if you can scare up the right bottom tank ?
Quote: thanks, any difference on the top tank other than the part number?
Quote: Rhinodart said :
Top hose location is the same, bottom hose is not.
BESIDE the part number and THE HOSE LOCATION? (big font, little font, use Chrysler blah, blah, blah )
I forget that you suffer from A.D.S. , thinking maybe someone can make a tag for you to solder over the wrong number if you can scare up the right bottom tank ?
I thought that the round top 22" was repopped ?
Not by Bob at Glen-Ray...Bob and I talked about that a few times and I'm sure that I'm not the only one that has talked to Bob about a 22" round top radiator, am I Bob I think there are way more different 22" rt radiators that makes it tough to single out the ones with good enough demand to make it worthwhile to repo one versus another?
Bob does indeed repop the 383 radiator for 1968 2898033, I got him the originals so he could make the tanks. I have one of his radiators sitting right here in front of me, $1,195 each! He has the top tank for the other kinds too, I believe he can build a 2949065 because it is the same tank as the 340 radiators.
Quote: Bob does indeed repop the 383 radiator for 1968 2898033, I got him the originals so he could make the tanks. I have one of his radiators sitting right here in front of me, $1,195 each! He has the top tank for the other kinds too, I believe he can build a 2949065 because it is the same tank as the 340 radiators.
Quote: Dave is green the most popular color in the registry it seems like a lot of F5 and F8 cars.
Actually B5=17 cars, F5=10 cars, F8=6 cars. These are the numbers before i took over. Some of the cars i have added are F5 and F8, but i think B5 is still the top color.
The Y3(yellow gold) fastback that was on ebay, then bought after the auction and is now back up for sale is actually 1 of only 2 Y3 cars!!
The first batch SPD was December 01, 1968, so I'd suspect headrests were still optional on those ones. The rest were after January 1st and they were mandatory.
Any M code owners have reference or pictures of the correct placement of lower body stripes? I bought a stripe kit from Phoenix and the vinyl doesn't extend to the front or back of the front fender or rear quarters. Need to know were to paint the line to connect to the stripe. I've got this picture of the back of a "gold certified" car, is this correct?
This is original stripe over black paint on front fenders. The black paint goes around the bumper bracket holes like this. I just emailed a guy for rear paint/stripe details, so when i get pics i'll post them. Don't forget, this paint is the same for any '69 'cuda package>>>> 340(A56), 383(A57) or 440(A13)
Thanks for the reference! One more question. What is correct 440 over Cuda or Cuda over 440 on the front fenders? I see pics of cars on this thread both ways????
Untouched! That should answer my question. Then why does Phoenix and the other providers of stripe kits have it the other way? Cuda on top of 440? They say they have original samples?
You see a lot of cars pictured in this thread with the number over the word but the 1969 factory Plymouth model brochure shows a green Cuda' 340 with the word "Cuda' " over the number and the description on the page calls it a Cuda 340. We called them 340, 383 or 440 Cuda's but I always thought the graphics showed the name first and engine size second as far as I remember? The sample window sticker for the R6 440 Cuda in this thread calls the package option "Cuda 383 group".. not 383 Cuda group. Performance Car Graphics shows their decals with the name first also and I know Dave Patik researches his stuff closely. Is it known that they came both ways?
Quote: from what i read only cuda 440 has cuda below engine disp. on 340 and 383 cuda was above engine disp.
I agree as above. Chrysler wanted the 440 to stand out on the 440 models. Most of these cars have been restored or some atleast repainted. We see the original paint red fender and there are more original cars out there but no pictures that i know of. This is one of the only 2-4 original pieces of material with the 440 'cuda advertized. Hard to tell in my pic, but 440 is above the 'cuda.....The original green fastback used in road and drag tests back in '69 only has 'cuda on the fender with no numbers.
Quote: Untouched! That should answer my question. Then why does Phoenix and the other providers of stripe kits have it the other way? Cuda on top of 440? They say they have original samples?
They say they have original samples? If they have original samples why did they have the 'cuda decals soooo messed up before i corrected them like 6-7 years ago? Would you like to see how bad they had the 'cuda decals before my help?(i posted pics of my NOS 'cuda decals back 2 pages).
Go by original cars like the red fender posted. The guy i asked for his rear stripe/paint details will also send me fender 440 'cuda decals. I wouldn't even go by the green "Gold awarded car" rear you showed because judges likely didn't even know about '69 'cuda package cars back when this car was awarded GOLD. I saw this GOLD car long ago when a guy just bought it from a guy that spent like $50k restoring it with alot of NOS. Back then $50k was huge money for a resto on an A-body and was before the explosion in HEMI and E-body prices! I saw it at Englishtown and have a couple of old paper pics of it somewhere.
I had a neighbor who bought a "69 440 'cuda right off the lot and on one side the decal said 440 'cuda and on the other side it said 'cuda 440. Car was a fastback in spanish gold with a green interior.
Quote: I had a neighbor who bought a "69 440 'cuda right off the lot and on one side the decal said 440 'cuda and on the other side it said 'cuda 440. Car was a fastback in spanish gold with a green interior.
I believe this, Rhinehart can atest to a similar thing on his Dart where one side had GT butt stripe and the other side had a Swinger stripe! Likely an assembly guy on each side of the car.
What's wrong with Spanish gold with green gut? I'd like to see that one! Just different!
Yep, those mistakes are par for the course for Chrysler quality back then. My second car was a 69 Fury III spanish gold with green interior and top, I thought they went good together!
i also have a letter from Chrysler written to the owner of the dealership that sold it new , explaing why this car has no warranty. my car was sold new about 7 miles from me. Dealership is still there and still owned by the same family.
Quote: i also have a letter from Chrysler written to the owner of the dealership that sold it new , explaing why this car has no warranty. my car was sold new about 7 miles from me. Dealership is still there and still owned by the same family.
Charlie nice to see an original booklet warranty. Do you have the full sheet warranty that was supposed to be taped inside the window? .........Any chance on seeing the dealership warranty from Chrysler? Dave
Dave, the window sticker is the one thing i did not get with the car. Are you talking about the warranty explaination pamplet stapled to the warranty book , or the letter from chrysler to the dealer ?
This is the full sheet warranty with double stick tape on the sides. Pull the green covering off the tape and stick on the inside of the window while the car sat at dealers show rooms so buyer looking at the cars knew about the limited warranty. Some of these never made it on the windows!!!
Charlie, can you post a picture of your fender in the front showing the paint and stripe overlapping. And how it goes around the bumper bracket hole? Just to have a 3rd known original sample. Does your car have original paint/stripes on the rear quarters/valance? If so can you post detailed pics of the paint and overlapping stripes? Greatly appreciated by all following here, Dave
I'll do that after work tonight. i'm not sure if i can get to the back well enough to get a good photo. i just packed all my cars pretty close together for the winter, but i'll try. That window sticker says pretty much the same as the pamplet stapled to my warranty book. i'd like to find one of those.
here is a picture showing the black paint up and around the bumper mount hole. you can clearly see the stripe overtop the painted area. Again, this is original and untouched.
Quote: the same on the rear quarter. the black is painted up and around the bumper mount hole.
So at the height of the black around the bracket hole, does the black go across the rear valance at the same height? Could you remove the bumper and get better pictures? LOL!!! Just kidding!.........
Is there a site to see the registry? As a M code owner would like to see what other cars, colors, options and production numbers. I've been on the Dart site, do we have a Barracuda site?
Quote: Anything new going on here????? I added a NEW M-coupe to the registry thanks to a member on here!
Color? Also where can I get a set of fender decals Dave?
Joe, get the fender decals from Phoenix Graphixs. Look on page 10 here to see my NOS 'cuda decals. Phoenix had them very wrong until i fixed them like 6-7 years ago. They will sell you just the pieces you need. http://www.phoenixgraphix.com/p-d/ct101.php Part#CT102 for the whole kit.
Quote: Is there a site to see the registry? As a M code owner would like to see what other cars, colors, options and production numbers. I've been on the Dart site, do we have a Barracuda site?
I do not have a website.....maybe someday. I don't know the first thing on doing one, but i know a couple of people that have sites that might help me?
Little off topic but that photo reminds me of an interesting point. The Cuda 440 is in the same NHRA class as the A12's! Anyone hear of or know a T5 Cuda 440 coupe from up around Syracuse, NY or points thereabouts?
Quote: Little off topic but that photo reminds me of an interesting point. The Cuda 440 is in the same NHRA class as the A12's! Anyone hear of or know a T5 Cuda 440 coupe from up around Syracuse, NY or points thereabouts?
Syracuse, NY area must have been M-Code Central....My A12 rr was originally sold in Baldwinsville, NY just out side of Syracuse and I know of four more M-codes from there and some very unusual colors?
OK!!! This post was buried on page 15, time to get it going again!! Tis the season, looks like rkmotorscharlotte has a new M-Dart up for sale on Ebag for $99,900.?????? WOW looks the market has come back and surpassed the highs of years ago??? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GTS-/2810...forcev4exp=true
Is this statement even close to being true that "only about 30 M-Code Darts still exist":
Assembled as a run-of-the-mill 383 car, then transformed into a 440-powered strip streak by the Hurst-Campbell Corporation, this Dodge is one of only 640 M-code Darts produced for the 1969 model year. Most of those big engine warriors were sold to drag racers who needed something tough to whip at the track and, as a result, Chrysler expert Galen Govier estimates that only 30 still exist.
Quote: Is this statement even close to being true that "only about 30 M-Code Darts still exist":
Assembled as a run-of-the-mill 383 car, then transformed into a 440-powered strip streak by the Hurst-Campbell Corporation , this Dodge is one of only 640 M-code Darts produced for the 1969 model year. Most of those big engine warriors were sold to drag racers who needed something tough to whip at the track and, as a result, Chrysler expert Galen Govier estimates that only 30 still exist.
There are so many things wrong with the above bolded remarks.
1. Not much "run of the mill" about a 383 A body and were available and sold through the 1969 model years but few were sold in comparison to a true "run of the mill" Dart or Cuda.
2.Transformed by Hurst-No.
3. There was a progression for big block A bodies and it goes like this:
In 1967 Mr. Norm complained that the competition had a leg up on Mopar in our A body size cars and asked for a 383-4 Dart. Factory said it would not fit in current configured body. Weeks later Norm shows up in Detroit with a 383-4 powered Dart they built @ the dealership. They show it to engineering and they start building them.
Next year Norm asks for competition for the 396/375 Chevy Nova. Factory says if you buy 50 or more they will build them. Norm agrees and replaces the GTS emblem with another S in place of the T and calls the car a Grand Spalding Sport.
The ONLY A bodies that Hurst had anything to do with were the 1968 Hemi Darts and Cudas because they had too many modification to perform on the assembly line, so unfinished cars were sent there for completion.
ALL 1969 M code A bodies were build completely @ the factory assembly plant. They did "begin" as a 383 car on PAPER just as the 1969 A12 cars did but never had a 383 ACTUALLY installed in the car. This is why BOTH of these "package cars" use an M in the V.I.N. Package cars were expected to be limited production and they did not create a new engine code for the V.I.N. and rather created an option package with an assigned sales code listing specific equipment INCLUDING the engine to identify what the actual engine is. The V.I.N. just shows "special engine" for the M code. You have to refer to the factory sales code for the car to determine what engine the car actually has.
Quote: Good info but what about there being "fewer than 30 M-code Darts left out of the 640 built?"
There are more than that registered on the gts registry, shoot we had two of them at one time and just sold one. They were beat to death and not alot survived compared to other cars like the a12's or e bodies which were "more valuable" cars. Come on its an A body it can't be value able can it?? They are actually one of my favorite mopar as they were just meant to be nasty from day one. Too bad you could not get a 4 speed with them as I am sure a 4 speed with a set of slicks would probably been the fastest true production mopar of all time. Can't count the hemi darts and cudas as they were never really meant for the street.
Quote: Good info but what about there being "fewer than 30 M-code Darts left out of the 640 built?"
There are more than that registered on the gts registry, shoot we had two of them at one time and just sold one. They were beat to death and not alot survived compared to other cars like the a12's or e bodies which were "more valuable" cars. Come on its an A body it can't be value able can it?? They are actually one of my favorite mopar as they were just meant to be nasty from day one. Too bad you could not get a 4 speed with them as I am sure a 4 speed with a set of slicks would probably been the fastest true production mopar of all time. Can't count the hemi darts and cudas as they were never really meant for the street.
Didn't get the 4-speed because there wasn't a Dana that would fit under the '69 A-body.
I actually think it's the opposite - there are a lot that survive due to the fact that they ended up as track cars & weren't ravaged by salt in the midwest VS. cars that could still be used as "drivers".
I'd bet there are 30 factory 440 Dart GTSs still being used as racecars.
Quote: I actually think it's the opposite - there are a lot that survive due to the fact that they ended up as track cars & weren't ravaged by salt in the midwest VS. cars that could still be used as "drivers".
I'd bet there are 30 factory 440 Dart GTSs still being used as racecars.
Quote: I actually think it's the opposite - there are a lot that survive due to the fact that they ended up as track cars & weren't ravaged by salt in the midwest VS. cars that could still be used as "drivers".
I'd bet there are 30 factory 440 Dart GTSs still being used as racecars.
Yeah but how many of those got tubbed out, front ends cut off for fiberglass replacments, interiors gutted and cages welded in, dashes thrown out with vin #'s attached to save weight, or fenderwells cut all up for headers. Yeah they may have been saved from the salt but they faced the saw and torch!!
Quote: Is this statement even close to being true that "only about 30 M-Code Darts still exist":
Assembled as a run-of-the-mill 383 car, then transformed into a 440-powered strip streak by the Hurst-Campbell Corporation, this Dodge is one of only 640 M-code Darts produced for the 1969 model year. Most of those big engine warriors were sold to drag racers who needed something tough to whip at the track and, as a result, Chrysler expert Galen Govier estimates that only 30 still exist.
I'm wondering where you got this info? Bob in upstate NY was running a M-Dart registry. He had around 100 vin#s. I think your info is very old? When my M-notch was in 3 different mags between '89-'91 they thought there were only 15 cars built!! But as time goes on we have learned more about the cars. Heck, back then i know a guy now that passed up my car because a known A-body EXPERT told him Chrysler NEVER made a 440-notch!!
Quote: Is this statement even close to being true that "only about 30 M-Code Darts still exist":
Assembled as a run-of-the-mill 383 car, then transformed into a 440-powered strip streak by the Hurst-Campbell Corporation, this Dodge is one of only 640 M-code Darts produced for the 1969 model year. Most of those big engine warriors were sold to drag racers who needed something tough to whip at the track and, as a result, Chrysler expert Galen Govier estimates that only 30 still exist.
I'm wondering where you got this info? Bob in upstate NY was running a M-Dart registry. He had around 100 vin#s. I think your info is very old? When my M-notch was in 3 different mags between '89-'91 they thought there were only 15 cars built!! But as time goes on we have learned more about the cars. Heck, back then i know a guy now that passed up my car because a known A-body EXPERT told him Chrysler NEVER made a 440-notch!!
Dave NOT my info, that's a statement in the ad for the M-Code Dart. As you say the Dart Registry has more than 30 so that's why I was asking if their statement was true or typical "used car salesman's BS" IMO it is BS
Quote: .Transformed by Hurst-No. May i ask how you came by this info, did you work on the line when they where installed?
No, I did not work on the line but I was selling Dodges NEW in 1969.
The history I cited above is pretty common knowledge amongst big block A body historical guys. Also, there is little difference in the 383 and 440 A body cars other than one of the exhaust manifolds so why would you think they would have to send the cars to Hurst for completion?
The factory completed the majority of the special package cars on the regular assembly line in what were called "holes" on the sides of the lines. you may want to read the following as it refers to them in this interview.
Winged Warriors/National B-Body Owners Association
LYNCH ROAD ASSEMBLY LINE OPERATING DESIGN Building the Road Runner SuperBird
By David J. Patik
Few Mopar enthusiasts have ever seen an automotive assembly line. Fewer still saw the assembly of Mopar muscle cars. Almost no enthusiasts active today in the hobby worked at Chrysler those many years ago.
Imagine the wealth of memories a Chrysler Engineer of that time period could share with us today! Gil Cunningham from late 1969 to 1974 was a Product Engineer at Chrysler's Lynch Road Assembly Plant, specializing in Body Sealing and Paint. This job entailed keeping his area of the assembly process running smoothly, and production testing of proposed changes in materials and/or their method of application and installation. Before and after Lynch Road service, Gil held several engineering positions at other Chrysler facilities, in both the car and truck divisions.
Today Engineer Gil is Dr. Gilbert Cunningham, chiropractor in private practice in Tallahassee, Florida. After a total of nineteen years at Chrysler, Gil eventually fulfilled his desire "to do something completely different than engineering, and work for himself." He is very much an enthusiast of Chrysler special cars, being Vice President of the Chrysler 300 Club International, and is the owner of a rare 1962 300H convertible, as well as other Letter Series Chryslers.
The article that follows is based on several interviews with Dr. Cunningham. It also contains information from interviews with former Chrysler Production Scheduling Programmer Walter Redmond, and long-time Chrysler Facilities Engineer Bob Badyna. In addition, Chrysler special body program information was derived from a presentation by NASCAR Program Design Engineers Larry Rathgeb, Gary Romberg, and John Pointer at the Winged Warrior National Meet in 1977.
Let's make a tour of Lynch Road in December of 1969, and follow the building of a SuperBird. But first, this imagination exercise: to get a good idea of the size of this facility, think of your local K-Mart store. It's about the size of a one-stall garage compared to the Lynch Road Plant! Built in the late 1930s, Lynch Road began building Plymouths after WWII. During the Muscle Car era, it employed 5,000-6,000 people. Only one story in design for the most part, ranging from eleven to fourteen feet tall, Lynch Road measures 660' wide by 2500' long. In 1969, it is considered quite modern and efficient, although the low ceiling height causes considerable difficulty in moving equipment into place.
Cars actually begin their life in the Production Scheduling Department. There, computer programmers perform tasks that are listed here in simplified form:
Highland Park (main office) decides which plant will build the car, based on distance from dealer, workload, and parts availability. If the car has been ordered by a customer through a dealer (Sold Car), insure that the sales personnel have ordered options and equipment possible for that model of car. The Vehicle Order Number that will appear on the car's fender tag and broadcast sheet is preprinted on the dealer's order form (except Special Order Cars). If the car is a dealer supply (Sales Bank) car, insure that this order information is correct. If a Special Order Car (S.O.C.) is to be built, (SuperBirds are S.O.C.) program in code "Y39" special building instructions on the broadcast sheet. Schedule the car's build date. Nightly meetings of Production Control personnel determine which cars will be built three days in advance, based on the in-stock supply of necessary parts. Assign a Production Sequence Number, used for tracking the car through the assembly process, and coordinating parts and sub-assemblies for the car. Assign a Vehicle Identification Number (V.I.N.) to the car. The scheduling of production requires some explanation of a basic goal of an automotive assembly line. That is, cars were scheduled for assembly in the ultimate mixed up order. Models were mixed (Belvederes and Coronets), bodies were mixed (station wagons, sedans, etc.), engines-transmissions-options were mixed. Why?
There were two reasons for this mixing. Bearing in mind that the line never stopped moving (except for disasters!), almost one car per minute left the final assembly line as a finished machine. Therefore, there were very real limits on the available manpower and space to physically get the exact needed parts where needed, as needed. The second reason for mixing models and options was the actual assembly time required. Some options were very common, some rare. A person on the line may have been responsible for installing more than one item on each car. Several people were needed to install some items.
So, the last thing that Lynch Road assembly supervisors and workers wanted was a relatively small order of very special cars. Imagine the massive increase in the order shuffling system that was required to integrate a SuperBird sub-model that required many special parts! This was to be a run of about two-thousand cars, scheduled for late 1969, with a required completion date of January 1, 1970 (to meet the NASCAR homologation deadline).
Chrysler management decided to have Lynch Road build running, completed SuperBirds, minus the wing and the nose cone assemblies. The cars would then be transported to the nearby Clairpointe Pre-Production facility for completion. Most special SuperBird parts were to be supplied by the custom-specialty firm Creative Industries, which either made these parts or purchased them from outside vendors.
Well, now that we understand the basics of SuperBird production planning, let's get to work building one!
The Lynch Road Plant consists of six major areas of assembly, each of which functions as a nearly-independent mini-factory.
Metal Shop = Body-in-White (BIW): assembly of complete bare body. Paint Shop: metal preparation, painting. Chassis Department: Engine "dress," mating of engine-transmission-rear end assemblies. Trim Line: Installation of body mechanical and electrical parts and sub-assemblies. Final Line: Glass, interior, final details. Car conditioning: Repair of completed vehicles, misc. tasks. It will take two day's construction from Metal Shop to loading a running car on a transport truck! The very long assembly lines move slowly and steadily.
We will begin our tour in the Metal Shop, where a few codes on a fender tag and a broadcast sheet guide the production of a complete, bare metal body. These two all important "blueprints" for each car result from the work of the Production Scheduling Department.
Lynch Road in the 1970 model year builds ("frames") sixteen different body types:
R = Belvedere W = Coronet Coupe 21 Hardtop 23 4-Door Sedan 41 Wagons 45/46 Coupe 21 Hardtop 23 4-Door Sedan 41 Wagons 45/46 Non A/C X X X X X X X X With A/C X X X X X X X X
Assembly of the body shell begins by laying the sub-assembled passenger compartment floor and forward frame rails and the sub-assembled trunk floor and frame rails onto a moving floor-level "truck" fixture. To either side of this floor pan fixture are secured (a short distance later) massive, hanging, moving fixtures called "sidegates." They locate to the floor pan assemblies the body side components: lower sills, cowl sides, "A" pillars, roof rails, and quarter panels.
Body parts are manually welded. Several hundred huge, pincher-type spot welders and their many cooling lines hang from the ceiling in the Metal Shop, giving it the appearance of an industrial rain forest. The high heat of the welders is dissipated by piped-in water to each unit, and their bulk is made more maneuverable by using their transformers as counterbalances.
In essence, every part of the body that will be color-coated is permanently attached in Body-in-White. Mating surfaces are coated with a grey, zinc-rich weld-through primer prior to spot weld assembly (in corrosion-prone areas). To prevent rust-out of bolted-on mated areas like door hinges-to-cowl, and fenders-to-inner fenders, a dark green zinc chromate primer is manually brushed onto each of these mating surfaces before body assembly.
Whether a car has air-conditioning is vital to Metal Shop because the dash panel (firewall) is a much different stamping for air conditioned cars than non-air cars. What about other options that require special body holes and studs? Nearly every body hole required for these options is dimpled into the metal stamping. The Metal Shop line is very long, with ample time to use its many hole-drilling fixtures and weld-stud fixtures. This avoids the plant complexity of too many different stampings, (regarding ordering and storage), and it's cost effective.
If a run of special bodies is planned, as with the SuperBirds, Metal Shop builds up from the stamping plant a "bank" of the special parts before assembly of the cars begins. These special runs of cars are never sent en-masse down the assembly line, but are sent in small clumps. (SuperBird records on file today reflect exactly this procedure).
Hemi-powered cars merit special mention. Their rear frame reinforcement plates are welded on to the frame rails at the stamping plant, creating a special trunk floor sub-assembly to be stored and then used at Lynch Road. Approximately one Hemi-car per shift is assembled (two shifts per day; the third shift is for plant maintenance).
Before exiting the metal shop fabrication area, every body receives its very own premade fender tag. It is attached to the left inner fender by its forward screw only, then pulled up at its rear. This allows inspector's punches to be impressed on it later, and allows the primers and color coats to be applied under it. (This is not a universal practice on every car or at all plants; sometimes the tag is hung inside the car by a paper clip).
Another vital task of the Metal Shop is embossing "secret" portions of the VIN on at least two pieces of welded-on sheet metal of the car. This is accomplished with an air or hydraulic embossing tool containing numbers and letters, manually located and actuated by its operator.
Since we are building a SuperBird, the work of the Metal Shop is still not finished. Every special part to be welded on and/or color-coated must be installed in this area. Most of this work will be done in "repair holes," which are side-tracks off the main assembly line. The major parts to be welded in are the rear window plug, wing support plates under the quarter panels, trunk floor brace brackets, and the hood latch tray mounting bracket.
The major bolted-on parts are the modified 1970 Coronet hood and fenders. The front section replacement work on the hood is done at the Chrysler stamping plant, while the more minor fender modifications are done at Lynch Road in the Metal Shop. Many special holes are drilled in the body for the wing, the 1968-69 Charger vacuum headlight system, and the fender scoops. Some usual Road Runner holes are not drilled, such as those for the metal nameplates on the quarter panels.
When the special-body modifications are completed on the SuperBird, it rejoins all other completed bodies in a holding area at the end of Body-In-White. From here, cars are selected at random for insertion on the Paint Shop line. The Sequence Number of each car is sent ahead via computer to the Paint Shop.
Every car begins its trip through Paint Shop with a trip through a seven-part, full-body spray and partial immersion in a series of chemical applications.
Hot chemical cleaner to remove waxy die-drawing compound, dirt, joint-leading residue. Hot rinse. Another hot rinse. Paint anchoring, metal etching and coating phosphate solution. Cold rinse. Conditioning solution. Dip up to headlamp level in grey water-based primer. Before this has dried, outer body is hosed off to prevent paint ridges caused by this primer, which would show through the color coat. The first six of these steps are the "Bondurite" cleaning and coating process. The final dip in primer is a Chrysler-invented step in corrosion protection, begun with the 1960 model year. Through all of these operations, the body is supported by large hooks, the forward of which pass through the windshield opening and attach to the dash panel area. The rear hooks attach in the wheel tub area. The hood and deck lid remain open to avoid large amounts of the chemicals becoming trapped in them. The many stamped-out large holes in the floor pans allow the chemicals to drain out. Passage through a dry-off oven dries the Chrysler Chemical Corp.-manufactured dip primer, and evaporates any water wash residue.
Now the SuperBird body requires another special step, the application of heat-curing "Plastisol" one-part filler around the rear window plug. Since the car will have a vinyl roof (purposely), only shaping and rough sanding of the joint area is necessary. This avoids the time-consuming (and toxic) joint-leading process that is performed at the roof-quarter joints on all cars without a vinyl roof.
Body sealers are now applied to all cars. A black, tar-like sealer is applied to all passenger compartment floor joints. This same always-soft material was used in the trunk compartment area until the wife of Chrysler President Lynn Townsend found that her luggage once was marred by it. That episode resulted in a corporate switch to the much more expensive, hard-drying Plastisol white sealer in the trunk! This sealer is also used in the joints around the rear window panel, and similar outer-body joints. Sound deadener is sprayed on the inside of the quarter panels as accessible from inside the trunk compartment, and to the inside of the door skins.
Now it is time to prime the body. All cars, regardless of body color, use a dark grey primer. Workers in the prime booth spray the door openings, and under/inside the hood/deck areas. Dummy, recycled 1/4" wire latches keep the doors, hood, and deck lid shut. Robot guns on curved tracks spray the sides, roof, hood, and deck lid outer body, their spraying actions programmed according to the car's body style. The insides of the car, and the underside receive only overspray.
Booth overspray is collected by water that flows downward all along the sides of the spray booth and over to its center, where it catches the paint particles in the downdraft through the open steel gridwork floor.
The "Upper Door Frame" (UDF) color is sprayed on any inside metal of the body shell that will not be covered by upholstery or metal finish panels. This colored paint is sprayed on before the primer overspray has dried.
Cars remain in the primer baking oven for approximately twenty-five minutes at 350-375 degrees. This high heat is intended also to cure the weld primers and vinyl plastisol sealers, which were applied with a gun to panel joints prior to being welded together.
The primer is wet-sanded at Lynch Road, using power disc hand-sanders, which have built-in water sprayers. Only the outside of the body is sanded. Following a wipe-off of primer residue, the body is cleaned with naphtha, then wiped with an alcohol-and-water solution. The UDF color is masked off by hand, with tape and masking paper.
Since our sample SuperBird is basically a 1970 Road Runner, its tail lamp bezels have been attached to the tail light panel with their purposely-long studs, while being spaced from the panel with one-inch sleeves. This allows the bezels to be painted with the car body, and allows painting of the tail-light panel contact areas, preventing rust. After the paint is baked, the sleeves are removed, and the bezels are permanently attached.
It is essential to note that a primary goal of assembly line painting of all cars is to have every part of the car that will be color-coated be permanently attached to the body before it enters the paint booth. This prevents the inevitable paint scratching of subsequent painted-parts assembly. Also, parts that are not to be color-coated are not installed on the car prior to entering the paint booth, thus avoiding masking off.
The front valance panels present a problem unique to SuperBirds. (They are the body panels that attach to the fenders forward of the wheels, and are later bolted to the nose cone supports [bumper brackets]). The valance panels can not be attached to the fender during painting because they would hang down at their underbelly end and get caught all along the assembly line. Yet, the valances are in an area of high rust potential, and must be color-coated.
The solution was to make them of galvanized steel, eliminating the need to run them through the Bondurite system. For color-coating, the valances are hung with short wires from the roof rails inside the passenger compartment, and painted there by the workers while the car was in the color paint booth. (This was a later standard practice on cars with bolted-on front or rear valance panels). The SuperBirds' rear window lower "corner" pot metal trim pieces are another painting problem, because they cannot be attached to the body during color-coating. Painting of the underlying sheet metal is necessary to avoid rust, and the trim pieces are painted body color and flat back. So, they are supplied to Lynch Road already color-coated for each allowed SuperBird color.
The baking oven for the color coat has a temperature of about 250 degrees, and baking time is twenty to thirty minutes. If a car comes out of the oven with paint problems, (usually dirt, sags, or drips) it goes to a Paint Shop repair hole. There the finish in the problem area is correctly prepared, the surrounding area is masked off, color-coating is applied, and the car is sent to the repair area's oven.
Those rare cars (fleet cars, usually) that are to be two-toned (painted metal roof different than body color), are removed from the exit line of the baking oven. They are placed on the entrance line to the paint booth, where the lower body is masked off. In the paint booth the roof color is sprayed, then the car passes through a baking oven again.
No color coat is applied to the roof of cars that will receive a vinyl roof, greatly cutting the use of expensive finish paint. Vinyl roofs are installed in the Paint Shop after a car's exit from the baking oven. This includes our sample SuperBird, which passes through the adhesive spray booth, then gets its mandatory black vinyl roof, specially-cut to fit the semi-fastback rear window plug. They may also apply decorative stripes to other models, particularly if the stripes are installed before body fittings that cover portions of the stripes. Station wagon woodgrain decals are applied by Paint Shop workers.
Now is a good time to illustrate one of the assembly line problems caused by the special-ordered SuperBirds. Our tour guide through time, Engineer Gil, distinctly remembers one SuperBird that was painted a color not allowed for SuperBirds.
Every dealer announcement for the SuperBird, and every factory engineering document for the car states that it would be available in only seven colors:
Blue Fire Metallic EB5 Alpine White EW1 Vitamin "C" Orange EK2 Lemon Twist FY1 Lime Light FJ5 Tor-Red EV2 Corporate Blue 999 (Ditzler DRA 12785) This problem car got painted FK5; that's Burnt Orange Metallic. The car went as normal through the baking oven, had it's vinyl roof installed, and had quite a few of its mechanical parts installed. Someone caught the paint error on the line in the Trim Shop. The painters had read the fender tag incorrectly, or the Production Scheduling people coded its color incorrectly, or an "illegally-ordered" color slipped through from a dealer's order.
By now the car was much too far assembled to pull it off the Trim Line, re-insert if on the Paint Line, scuff sand its new paint, reshoot it a correct color, and run it through the high heat of the baking oven. And, the car was already built in the Metal Shop as a SuperBird, so it could not easily be converted to a regular Road Runner, which did allow Burnt Orange Metallic paint. It was finally decided by Product Planning to finish building the car as a SuperBird, and send the car to Clairpointe as usual, along with a can of orange paint, and a note explaining the problem! (If the broadcast sheet and fender tag paint codes did not match the FK5 color, this car received re-issued identification). Researchers have so far found three SuperBirds painted the "impossible" FK5!
Back to the normal assembly line now! The work of the Paint Shop is now completed; the painted shells gather in the painted body bank before they are loaded in a mixed-up order of paint and body style onto the track for the next assembly line area at Lynch Road, the Trim Shop.
Here a wide variety of parts for the car will be installed except the interior, glass, window chrome, and final details. The Trim Line installs weather seals, all electrical wiring and its equipment, headlights, and the complete instrument panel. Here the engine-transmission-rear end will meet the body, the tires and wheels will be installed; a running car will be produced.
How is it possible for the thousands of parts for each car passing through Trim Line to be quickly selected for assembly to the correct car? A central feature of assembly line operation is having the exact needed part awaiting the exact intended car. Some parts are small, and are used on every car. They are dispensed from bins and buckets within easy reach. Large parts, such as engine and transmission are trucked in from their manufacturing and sub-assembly plants, and placed in plant storage areas.
A basic description of the role of broadcast sheets, also called "track sheets," in the assembly plant would now be helpful. Cars are sent from one stage (or department) of assembly to another department without any regard for keeping them in the numerical order of their Vehicle Identification Numbers. Yet, the sub-assembly personnel, as well as the car assembly workers, know in what order the cars will be arriving on the line well before the car actually gets there. That is because the broadcast sheets in their area are printed in the order in which the cars will actually arrive using the Sequence Number of each car for their department re-sequencing; i.e., each "new" department has its own Sequence Number. There is a broadcast sheet Addressograph Multigraph teletype at the start of all major departments. A highlighted broadcast sheet four times the normal size is taped to the front of the hood, which provides ready reference for assembly workers.
To understand how a major part moves from its sub-assembly plant to installation in a car, let's suppose the SuperBird we are building is to be Hemi-powered. We will follow the path of its engine.
The Marysville Engine Plant is located about fifty miles from the Lynch Road Assembly Plant. All Chrysler street Hemi-engines are assembled there. As is standard practice with most Chrysler engines, Hemis are assembled as complete basic engines, including exhaust manifolds, heat tubes, and even the negative battery cable. The coded assembly markings are stamped into the block's forward identification pad before the entire assembly is painted Hemi orange. The black valve covers are installed, then the spark plug tubes, plugs, wires, and the distributor. Oil and water are added to the engine, and a source of propane and air is fed into the intake manifold. The engine is test run and checked for leaks.
No Vehicle Identification Number is stamped onto the block's right lower pad because at this point the engine is generic; it could be installed in any body. For the same reason, the carburetors and the oil pressure sender unit are not installed-different cars use different parts. However, the engines are designated for manual or automatic transmission, depending on whether the pilot bushing is installed in the crankshaft.
Like all engines, Hemis are inserted into heavy steel racking that holds six engines to a rack. These are loaded with a forklift onto a Dodge-powered Corporate Transportation semi-trailer. Once transported to Lynch Road, the racks of engines are moved to a production line storage area. Forklifts stack these racks four to five levels high, creating a formidable-looking skyscraper of Hemis! When the Engine Dress staging area runs low on its immediate supply of Hemis, a forklift brings one rack-full. Much more frequent deliveries are required for 318 and 383 engines! The Engine Dress area is part of the Chassis Department, which is fed into the moving Trim Line. The idea is to have the completed assembly of K-member (with mounted steering, brakes, suspension, and engine) plus transmission-drive shaft-axle meet the waiting body.
Let's backtrack a bit, and look at the process of parts selection for the Engine Dress and Chassis Line areas. Here are the teletype printers that issue broadcast sheets well before the car arrives to meet the Chassis Line; in fact, these broadcasts are printed as soon as the car is loaded onto the Trim Line from the Paint Shop. Parts are always stocked on line on basis of production schedule - i.e., what mix of cars are being built. Parts are not "gathered" on receipt of a particular track sheet (hopefully anyway!).
This parts selection is simplified to reduce time and errors by marking the parts and sub-assemblies with partial part numbers, identification stickers, tags, and paint-dabbed color codes on the parts. The partial part numbers that appear in the upper portion of the broadcast sheet guide this entire selection process for each car. Workers in all plant areas also refer to large, hanging instructional posters, called "graphic illustrations" for correct car construction.
As soon as a generic Hemi engine is selected from the supply rack, the partial VIN of its intended car body is stamped by hand onto the right side pad cast there for this purpose. An inverted "Y"-shaped hook attached to a one-ton air-powered hoist grabs an engine by its exhaust manifolds. This transfers it to an oval track (called the merry-go-round), from which hang large "hooks" on which the engines are loaded.
A generic Hemi automatic or manual transmission is selected, and mated to the engine. It becomes specifically built for our SuperBird with the additions of stamping the car's VIN, and installing the shift linkage and speedometer pinion. The engine now receives every part to complete it except the air cleaner: carburetors, fuel lines, pulleys, power steering pump, fan, oil filter, and throttle linkage. A steel shroud is placed over the right Hemi valve cover to prevent it being scratched and dented during the tight clearances of installation.
Adjacent is the moving Chassis Line, which has been busy installing its correct parts for our SuperBird. Beginning with attaching the special Hemi K-member to a line fixture, the items installed on it include the steering box and all linkage, the complete front suspension, and brakes.
A few feet farther back on the line, the correct axle housing and differential has been installed in a fixture, and includes the rear springs and brakes. The K-member and axle are spaced apart on the line fixtures exactly as on the underbody of our SuperBird. Now the engine-transmission unit is lowered onto the K-member, the propeller shaft is installed, and this completed drivetrain disappears from view, proceeding under the plant floor.
All the while the engine and chassis are being built-up, the body shell is being built-up on the Trim Line. Workers on wheeled stools do underbody work first, installing the gas tank, fuel lines, and brake lines. Undercoating is then applied.
Shortly after this work is completed, the body lowers toward the floor and the Chassis Line rises from under the floor to meet it. The chassis assembly is installed together, upward into the car body. Attaching the entire K-member assembly is accomplished by installation of the large frame bolts. The upper A-arms are installed into their body receptacles, the transmission crossmember is bolted in, the rear spring ends are attached, and all lines and linkages are connected. The correct torsion bars are selected from crates containing five hundred bars each, as received from their manufacturing plant. This unibody chassis mating method is very similar to the old body-drop used with body and full-frame construction.
There is another area of the Chassis Line whose work is now installed on the car, the Tire and Wheel section. This area is elevated above the main floor of the plant. It also has a broadcast teletype printer. Responsibilities here include providing the Trim Line with mounted, matching, correct sets of tires, with the correct style of wheels. Tires are mounted on wheels with an automatic, high speed machine. It blows the correct amount of air into the tire very quickly between the bead and rim just before mounting is complete. Balancing follows.
Ready sets of four tires, plus the correct spare, are dropped down metal tubes to each side of the Trim Line installation point. Assembly line boredom combined with the desire for efficiency apparently has motivated workers here to learn how to land the spare tire of each and every car with one bounce into the trunk! They will find this trick tougher on the SuperBird; its deck lid opens a limited amount, to prevent it from hitting the fastback panel.
Once all the underneath work is done on the car, it drops onto a "flat top" moving assembly line, which resembles the tracks of a bulldozer. The car now sits on its own mounted wheels and tires, but it is guided along the line by the flat top. The front end is sitting very low because the torsion bars have not yet been adjusted. This allows easier engine compartment access.
Instrument panel sub-assembly is in a remote area of Lynch Road, and requires its own broadcast sheet. Whether a car will have air conditioning makes a big difference to instrument panel parts selection. Nearly each of the car's electrical options has an instrument panel control or light, all of which must be installed, together with the correct instrument cluster, all of the panel wiring, and the crash pad.
Another sub-assembly area of the plant Bondurites and color-coats the small, Lynch Road-made metal items like the instrument panel frame. This "Small Parts Painting Department" has its own broadcast sheet for parts selection and preparation. After Bonduriting, the small parts are not primered. Rather, they are color-coated electrostatically. An instrument panel frame is connected electrically to one polarity, while the paint gun and its paint is of the opposite polarity. Good paint adhesion results, but more important is the even coverage and paint savings.
Completed instrument panels are sent according to Sequence Number by overhead hooks to their installation point on the Trim Line. Sometimes a highlighted broadcast sheet is taped to the glovebox or is stuffed above it by the Instrument Panel Department workers. These sheets may remain in place on the instrument panel when the car leaves the factory.
On the Trim Line, the heater/air conditioner has already been attached to the dashpanel. All body wiring, lights, and electrical equipment is installed. The radiator, and all the drive line fluids are added from overhead-mounted hoses. By now we have reached the rear of the plant after traveling through the many turns of the Trim Line.
We now have a car that will run and drive. A worker carrying a simple wooden seat (hand-upholstered with scrap foam!) walks to our waiting SuperBird, places the seat on the driver's side floor, starts the engine, and drives off!
He is not going far, only to another part of the Trim/Chassis Department, called the "Rolls." Here are floor-mounted rollers onto which the car's rear wheels are driven. This allows considerable driveline testing, as well as providing a complete electrical check under a variety of running conditions. The object of this testing is to detect any noises, vibrations, leaks, shorts, or outright failures. If such are discovered, repair holes, manned by line workers with seniority, are able to fix any problem from minor to disastrous. Cars are never scrapped as being "unfixable" or "not worth fixing."
When roller testing and any repairs are completed, the car is driven another short distance in the plant, to the Final Line stage of assembly. This is the longest line of all, being 1980' in length, extending straight to the front of the plant.
Final Line work concentrates on body trim and the interior. An early task is installation of the headliner. For our sample SuperBird, it is a special-cut piece due to the added rear window area, and it is always black whether the remainder of the interior is black or white. (This is a singular exception to color coordination).
Next installed are the door latches, window seals, window regulators, and the glass. Before any upholstery is installed, every car passes through a water leak test booth, which is the length of three cars. Highly-pressured water is directed at the top, bottom, and sides of the car as it travels through the dark booth. An inspector riding inside the car looks for leaks, using a flashlight, and notes any problems on a heavy paper inspection form.
Charge-up of the air conditioning system is done on the Final Line. Four cars at a time can be charged, which is all automatically done. Each car is hooked to an overhead rail-mounted charging system, which is pulled along by the car itself as it travels down the line.
Upholstery panels for the doors and quarters, and the seat fabric and foam, are supplied by a Chrysler subsidiary, or by an outside vendor. Lynch Road assembles to the seat frame and spring assembly the padding and upholstery in a remote sub-assembly area. Here is yet another broadcast sheet printer. Often, this area's sheet is inserted behind the springs of the rear seat vertical cushion before the group of seats for that car is hooked to the Final Line installation area. The front seat(s) are covered with clear plastic.
Much of the length of Final Line has a center pit for under-car installation and adjustment. A major task is complete alignment of the front steering and suspension. There are many small tasks done on Final Line, such as installation of the air cleaner, window chrome trim, some mouldings-emblems-stripes, and all of the many instructional and legally required small decals, dispensed from overhead rolls. Several owner/operator instruction tags are attached to the driver's controls. The plastic-wrapped bumper jack is installed in the trunk and cars with standard-type wheels have their hubcaps placed in the trunk. The headlights are aimed with special instruments.
When a car reaches the end of the main part of the Final Line, and it requires minor optional items, the car goes onto short "repair" lines running the narrow direction of the plant, crosswise of the Final Line. This is the Car Conditioning Area. Here some of the decorative stripes, and painted-on stripes are applied. Any final repairs are made. A car that has randomly been selected for a full-car inspection may spend time here if anything was found amiss. This inspection will be evidenced by many more inspector's stamps and markings than found on the usual car, which will have received an inspection only at the end of each department through which it passes.
A very late, final sequencing task is application of the car's VIN-imprinted Monroney Label to the rear of the driver's door. As the car goes out the Lynch Road door, the final operation is spray-on protective waxing.
None of the SuperBirds are completed cars, for they are all missing their nose cone assembly and wing. These cars were driven onto semi-trailer car haulers for the five mile trip to the Clairpointe Pre-Production facility. Its purpose needs to be explained before we complete assembly of our car there. Its usual function was a training area for assembly of the next-year's models. It was complete with scaled down versions of every major area of an assembly plant, so that the new parts and new technologies could be tried under actual conditions before the "real" cars were assembled. (Clairpointe test cars completed are "pilot cars"). For example, in May of 1969, perhaps twenty of the soon-to-be-introduced E-bodies were completely built at Clairpointe. In late 1969, this facility was not in use because the 1970 models were already in full production (since August 1, 1969), and the 1971 model pilot assembly had not begun. Therefore, it was ideally suited for SuperBird final assembly; its close proximity to Lynch Road was an added bonus.
There actually was little assembly required when the cars arrived in no particular order from Lynch Road. The first car to arrive was RM23?0A149789, on October 17, 1969. It was completed and shipped out the same day. The last car to arrive was RM23U0A172609, which arrived on December 17, 1969, and was completed the next day. (SuperBird VINs themselves range from 149597 to 181274). Several cars were returned to Lynch Road for repairs, which must have meant major parts were wrong, such as a 1970 Road Runner front end mistakenly attached, or the car was seriously damaged in transit. Clairpointe normally could repair normal parts malfunctions itself.
Nose cones were received from Creative Industries fully assembled. All internal nose parts (except hardware) and the interior surfaces of the shell itself had been individually sprayed flat black over bare metal before any assembly. The outer surface of the nose shell was painted with light grey primer, before assembly of internal parts.
Almost all internal structural parts of SuperBird noses were borrowed from the Charger Daytona nose. Despite countless press articles about these cars, the only fiberglass parts of the nose cones were the headlight doors, which do interchange between Dodge and Plymouth. Both cars used the complete 1968-69 Charger vacuum headlight system. SuperBirds used nose parking lamps from the 1970 Fury (clear lens version). Both winged cars used the same small nose cone spoiler, the exact design of which merited more time than any other special part, due to cooling worries. The SuperBird's inward tilted wing uprights result in superior air flow compared to the Daytona's straight uprights. However, the SuperBird's compromised rear window area resulted in an overall slower car.
The primary Clairpointe concern with the nose cones was correct operation of the headlight doors, and proper parking lamp mounting. Precise federal safety rules had to be strictly followed after approval for these designs had been obtained.
Wings and noses were painted in lacquer before installation on the car. The Clairpointe baking oven could not be used to bake enamel paint because the nose cones had to be fully assembled before color-coating. Sometimes the lacquer-colored nose and wing did not precisely match the enamel-colored body of the car! The nose spoiler was painted body color while off the nose.
All of the decorative decals on the car were installed at Clairpointe. The assembly guidebook prescribes these combinations concerning the wing decals and the "Plymouth" quarter panel lettering:
White decals: EB5-EV2-999 Black decals: EW1-EK2-FY1-FJ5
The nose decals were always matt black, using DiNoc material (slightly textured). Only the left headlight door received a miniature version of a wing decal.
The final items installed on the SuperBird were the trunk-mounted front frame rail jack and handle, special jack instruction decal under the deck lid, the loose-shipped nose spoiler, license plate bracket, and the cardboard template to mount it. For those states requiring front plates, it was to be mounted on top of the nose shell, between the headlight doors!
Perhaps a postscript is justified here. While about one-half of the approximately two-thousand SuperBirds found immediate buyers, many of the remainder were almost unsellable. It was possible to buy a dealer-new SuperBird in some locations two or more years after their production. Many were converted into Road Runners by weary dealers. Some of this sad problem was undoubtedly due to the limited demand for so impractical a car. But in large part it was due to insurance rates so expensive that some companies instructed their agents to "write for a quotation."
Selling SuperBirds proved to be of little difficulty for performance-wise dealers, however. First Avenue Plymouth, of Cedar Rapids, Iowa, sold fifteen, more than any other dealer.
BROADCAST SHEET NOTE: In our tour of Lynch Road, we encountered broadcast sheets from at least every major area of production. There was no legal reason to include with the completed car any of the sheets. In fact, in later years they were actively eliminated because the paper was not in compliance with government standards of cloth fire resistance.
LYNCH ROAD TODAY: By leveling the Hamtramck Plant, then leaving Lynch Road, Chrysler ceased to build cars in Detroit itself. City government pressured Chrysler to sell Lynch Road to the city for one dollar in about 1984, as compensation for large employee layoffs. Today, the plant still stands, and is used by several small businesses and city government for storage and light manufacturing.
RESEARCH ASSISTANCE: Galen Govier, Nigel Mills, and Jim Radke provided valuable knowledge based on their many years of Chrysler product research.
All that info is nice if i had a Superbird but we're talking a-body m-codes.I was working for my uncle who owned a Dodge dealership in 69 and my dad worked for Fisher Body so i know pretty much how things worked. I don't know where they were built, just want the true facts. My question is for the guys who have restored one, can the body be set down on the engine and trans while its on the x-member like the factory did in the same amount of time moving down the line? They couldn't do this with the Hemi a-bodys, to much beating and banging and adapting to do on the line. This would be the only reason i could see them taking to Hurst.My build sheet and data plate has the engine code E63-383. Why couldn't the factory guys just put the code E86-440 when they set up these cars to come down the line since they did it with the Superbirds that way because everything has to have order and precision coming down the line. What about the special clip that all the m-code cars have on the steering connecter, like the engine was put in at a different time and didn't want to pull out the column again. Being towed over and installing the engine just seems more plausible with all these little things to do. I'm going to ask the A12 guys if there cars had E63 on there tags and build sheets then changed to E87 440-6 since they are m-code special order too.Hope i thought of every thing if not I'll be back, just trying to get good info
Quote: All that info is nice if i had a Superbird but we're talking a-body m-codes.I was working for my uncle who owned a Dodge dealership in 69 and my dad worked for Fisher Body so i know pretty much how things worked. I don't know where they were built, just want the true facts. My question is for the guys who have restored one, can the body be set down on the engine and trans while its on the x-member like the factory did in the same amount of time moving down the line? They couldn't do this with the Hemi a-bodys, to much beating and banging and adapting to do on the line. This would be the only reason i could see them taking to Hurst.My build sheet and data plate has the engine code E63-383. Why couldn't the factory guys just put the code E86-440 when they set up these cars to come down the line since they did it with the Superbirds that way because everything has to have order and precision coming down the line. What about the special clip that all the m-code cars have on the steering connecter, like the engine was put in at a different time and didn't want to pull out the column again. Being towed over and installing the engine just seems more plausible with all these little things to do. I'm going to ask the A12 guys if there cars had E63 on there tags and build sheets then changed to E87 440-6 since they are m-code special order too.Hope i thought of every thing if not I'll be back, just trying to get good info
Yes the A12's have the E63 on on the tag and sheet because the A12 was a Package Code and Option that was "Added" to the base 383 rr and Bee. There was an "Addition and Deletion" list that went with the A12 package that deleted the base 383, axle, hood, wheels/tires, carburetor, intake, etc., The engine code was the only thing added to the VIN along with the fender tag A12 option, special axle, and build sequence.....and it was mostly built on the Lynch Road assembly line with the special fiberglass hood, and carbs being done in an area after the assembly but at Lynch Road (NOT outside the LR plant.
As for the M-code A13 A-bodies if they could put the 383 big block in on the assembly line then IMO they could also install the 440 on the Hamtramck assembly line with the same equipment used for the 383......what would be so unique except for the slight change of the driver's side exhaust manifold. The left engine mount would have been done as the engine was fitted to the K-frame IMO.
Quote: Is this statement even close to being true that "only about 30 M-Code Darts still exist":
Assembled as a run-of-the-mill 383 car, then transformed into a 440-powered strip streak by the Hurst-Campbell Corporation, this Dodge is one of only 640 M-code Darts produced for the 1969 model year. Most of those big engine warriors were sold to drag racers who needed something tough to whip at the track and, as a result, Chrysler expert Galen Govier estimates that only 30 still exist.
What do you expect from that particular seller , after all he is a used car salesman .
Just like our ole buddy D was ...
Keep telling the same lies and after a while even you believe they are true.
Quote: All that info is nice if i had a Superbird but we're talking a-body m-codes.I was working for my uncle who owned a Dodge dealership in 69 and my dad worked for Fisher Body so i know pretty much how things worked. I don't know where they were built, just want the true facts. My question is for the guys who have restored one, can the body be set down on the engine and trans while its on the x-member like the factory did in the same amount of time moving down the line? They couldn't do this with the Hemi a-bodys, to much beating and banging and adapting to do on the line. This would be the only reason i could see them taking to Hurst.My build sheet and data plate has the engine code E63-383. Why couldn't the factory guys just put the code E86-440 when they set up these cars to come down the line since they did it with the Superbirds that way because everything has to have order and precision coming down the line. What about the special clip that all the m-code cars have on the steering connecter, like the engine was put in at a different time and didn't want to pull out the column again. Being towed over and installing the engine just seems more plausible with all these little things to do. I'm going to ask the A12 guys if there cars had E63 on there tags and build sheets then changed to E87 440-6 since they are m-code special order too.Hope i thought of every thing if not I'll be back, just trying to get good info
When I put the drivetrain in mine it went up from the bottom,extremely tight to the fenderwells.I actually scratched the passengers side puting it in,but it will go.Did the factory do it that way,I don't know for sure but it will fit.John.
If I was to do it again,and I will be,I'll be removing/installing from the top.I was told that was the way Chrysler did these installs on the line from the top.True?don't know for sure.If you decide to go from the bottom,tape off the shock towers and the rails below them,that is the problem area. John.
Quote: If I was to do it again,and I will be,I'll be removing/installing from the top.I was told that was the way Chrysler did these installs on the line from the top.True?don't know for sure.If you decide to go from the bottom,tape off the shock towers and the rails below them,that is the problem area. John.
The assembly line put the engine in from the BOTTOM , no way they did it from the top unless it was done off the line.
Quote: If I was to do it again,and I will be,I'll be removing/installing from the top.I was told that was the way Chrysler did these installs on the line from the top.True?don't know for sure.If you decide to go from the bottom,tape off the shock towers and the rails below them,that is the problem area. John.
The assembly line put the engine in from the BOTTOM , no way they did it from the top unless it was done off the line.
Was told these cars were built complete minus motor and trans,and they were installed off the line at Chrysler.Now I know that would mean no steering column either,but who knows.Just telling what was told to me years ago about these cars.
As far as which way you put a motor in one of these cars,be it top or bottom,you'll still need to pull the column out to clear the drivers manifold,way to tight on that side to deal with it in the car. John.
I'm pretty sure the manifold was on the engine because mine still has the paint on them, I was told the guy drove his dart home and removed the manifolds for headers. Sat on the shelf all that time. That engine mount is another thing, who made it and who drilled the holes in the block and where was it done, this to me is the most special thing about these cars.
cudaman1969 All that info is nice if i had a Superbird but we're talking a-body m-codes
I understand that and A bodies were not even built at the L.R. plant. The reason I posted it is that it is an interview with a plant engineer that was there in 1969. It addresses the "hole" that handled many of the odd equipment/modifications that were not done on the regular line just as it would have been done at any other plant.
charge70
Was told these cars were built complete minus motor and trans,and they were installed off the line at Chrysler.Now I know that would mean no steering column either,but who knows.Just telling what was told to me years ago about these cars.
That is absolutely wrong but is also common mis-information in the Mopar hobby.
One thing people have to remember is that this was a major auto manufacture in the business for maximum profit. In the hobby today owners of these old cars seem to think that these old muscle cars are special. Well, to the owners they are but to Ma Mopar back in the day, they were just another car. They sent very FEW cars outside of the regular assembly plants for ANYTHING. It cost them extra money to do it and the only reason a few of these cars were sent out (like the Hemi A bodies) is because it would be too big a job to do in the factory "hole" mentioned above. The original price when new for a Hemi A body reflected this cost not to mention they came in primer not even painted a factory color.
It was all about money and unless it was something BIG they did it at the factory assembly plants.
I am the proud owner of a B5 440 Cuda that is in the process of being restored. I may have some questions to post here about the car and would appreciate any help I can get on doing a proper restoration. I have the numbers matching motor even tho the car was a race car for many years. Couple of things, I know the grill surrounds are black on the inside edge. Is the grill itself black as well? I see some pics where they look black but not sure its just the lighting or if its correct that way. Also wondering about where to get the stripes. I know some places make them, but wondering about the quality and if anyone has any suggestions.
Thanks all and look forward to posting some more pics as I get things done with it.
Welcome aboard!!! You know me from abodies. Your question "Is the grill itself black as well?" Are you talking about the aluminum squares, usually called "egg crates"? If that's what you mean they are black, but the front edges of the metal are bare. Most people don't know that! I was told many years ago that they are painted from the back, therefore the front edges don't get paint. If you go back thru all of this post i believe i posted pics of an NOS set. Dave
Hurst-Campbell did the 68 440 Darts for Chrysler for Nr. Norm only. The 69's were all done at Hamtramck. I have a 69 (wish I still had a 68!) Never tried to install from the top but it did go in from the bottom with no problems.
I was going to take my yellow car to try and sell. Had to trailer a race car and it rained like crazy Thurs and Fri morning. Glad I left it at home. That event just keeps shrinking, show field was dismal and didn't see any on the pit side.
Quote: Hurst-Campbell did the 68 440 Darts for Chrysler for Nr. Norm only. The 69's were all done at Hamtramck. I have a 69 (wish I still had a 68!) Never tried to install from the top but it did go in from the bottom with no problems.
Chrysler also made 6 1968 Dart GTS 440 cars with wheel well header from the factory. only know were 4 went to * Dick Landy * Ron Mancini (Greater Detroit Dodge Dealers) * Charlie Allen (Saddleback Dodge) * Rockville Center Dodge (Long Island, New York)
The black on black fastback that Scott had for sale at Carlisle a couple years ago has been sold. It's at a resto shop in Texas. Apparently it changed hands again while in the shop????? I will be calling the shop owner to BS at some point and find out more.
Page 9 & 10 in this post has pics of the car at Carlisle that i posted.
Quote: The black on black fastback that Scott had for sale at Carlisle a couple years ago has been sold. It's at a resto shop in Texas. Apparently it changed hands again while in the shop????? I will be calling the shop owner to BS at some point and find out more.
Page 9 & 10 in this post has pics of the car at Carlisle that i posted.
Dave, Mike here, how much did the black car sell for? Trying to get a feel for what mine is worth.
Mike, i don't know what it sold for. Not sure if i can find out. Go to page 10 in this post, he had $35,500. on it at Carlisle. Not original motor, but a pretty clean car needing resto. I know years ago he was asking $47,500(i still have copies of his cars for sale sheet).
In the whats it worth section,there is a Moparts member asking what his matching numbers project red on red code M fastback is worth. I'm sure he could use some info from you guys. He says it has all the correct parts,including the radiator,and 440 exhaust manifolds.
Quote: In the whats it worth section,there is a Moparts member asking what his matching numbers project red on red code M fastback is worth. I'm sure he could use some info from you guys. He says it has all the correct parts,including the radiator,and 440 exhaust manifolds.
anyone know what the measurment of a m-code driveshaft is. mine got mixed up in a pile of assorted shafts years ago and i don't remember which one it is.
Quote: Is there a M-code Dart/Cuda Reunion coming up in Carlisle for 2014? It would go along with the other M-code Reunion being planned.
Dave
I set up/ran the '09 M-code A-body reunion with Ed that runs the Mopar show. I also did the MODTOP gathering with him in 2012. When I saw/asked Ed this year about doing a M-code A-body 45yr reunion for 2014, he said he didn't know yet, it's hard to decide what cars to do special events for. Both times I've worked with Ed it usually ends up being only 6 months before the show, which makes it hard to track down and get owners to show up. I'm hoping to do it in 2014 but that is up to Ed. In '09 we had 16 M-Code A-bodies show up! Most likely the largest gathering of M-Code A-bodies together at one show ever. If we do it again for 2014 I hope we can have many more than that. Do you have one?
Quote: anyone know what the measurment of a m-code driveshaft is. mine got mixed up in a pile of assorted shafts years ago and i don't remember which one it is.
Quote: Hurst-Campbell did the 68 440 Darts for Chrysler for Nr. Norm only. The 69's were all done at Hamtramck. I have a 69 (wish I still had a 68!) Never tried to install from the top but it did go in from the bottom with no problems.
Chrysler also made 6 1968 Dart GTS 440 cars with wheel well header from the factory. only know were 4 went to * Dick Landy * Ron Mancini (Greater Detroit Dodge Dealers) * Charlie Allen (Saddleback Dodge) * Rockville Center Dodge (Long Island, New York)
Very cool info. My quote was based on dealer sold street cars..Norm had the exclusive on the Darts in '68..those 4 were for the racers.....I wonder If any of those are around? It is hard enough finding a G-S one.
Quote: anyone know what the measurment of a m-code driveshaft is. mine got mixed up in a pile of assorted shafts years ago and i don't remember which one it is.
3.0 diameter by 48.88 long center to center of the u-joints.
Quote: Hurst-Campbell did the 68 440 Darts for Chrysler for Nr. Norm only. The 69's were all done at Hamtramck. I have a 69 (wish I still had a 68!) Never tried to install from the top but it did go in from the bottom with no problems.
Chrysler also made 6 1968 Dart GTS 440 cars with wheel well header from the factory. only know were 4 went to * Dick Landy * Ron Mancini (Greater Detroit Dodge Dealers) * Charlie Allen (Saddleback Dodge) * Rockville Center Dodge (Long Island, New York)
Very cool info. My quote was based on dealer sold street cars..Norm had the exclusive on the Darts in '68..those 4 were for the racers.....I wonder If any of those are around? It is hard enough finding a G-S one.
The only one I know of but haven't seen yet is supposed to be in Minnesota and is the Dick Landy car. Hopefully it will surface soon! I have pictures of the Landy car and the Saddleback Dodge car, but not of the other ones.
Quote: Is there a M-code Dart/Cuda Reunion coming up in Carlisle for 2014? It would go along with the other M-code Reunion being planned.
Dave
I set up/ran the '09 M-code A-body reunion with Ed that runs the Mopar show. I also did the MODTOP gathering with him in 2012. When I saw/asked Ed this year about doing a M-code A-body 45yr reunion for 2014, he said he didn't know yet, it's hard to decide what cars to do special events for. Both times I've worked with Ed it usually ends up being only 6 months before the show, which makes it hard to track down and get owners to show up. I'm hoping to do it in 2014 but that is up to Ed. In '09 we had 16 M-Code A-bodies show up! Most likely the largest gathering of M-Code A-bodies together at one show ever. If we do it again for 2014 I hope we can have many more than that. Do you have one?
O would suggest you contact Ed now. Planning the Lift Off Hood Reunion for 2014 now. Be nice to see some more M-codes.
Quote: Hurst-Campbell did the 68 440 Darts for Chrysler for Nr. Norm only. The 69's were all done at Hamtramck. I have a 69 (wish I still had a 68!) Never tried to install from the top but it did go in from the bottom with no problems.
Chrysler also made 6 1968 Dart GTS 440 cars with wheel well header from the factory. only know were 4 went to * Dick Landy * Ron Mancini (Greater Detroit Dodge Dealers) * Charlie Allen (Saddleback Dodge) * Rockville Center Dodge (Long Island, New York)
Very cool info. My quote was based on dealer sold street cars..Norm had the exclusive on the Darts in '68..those 4 were for the racers.....I wonder If any of those are around? It is hard enough finding a G-S one.
The only one I know of but haven't seen yet is supposed to be in Minnesota and is the Dick Landy car. Hopefully it will surface soon! I have pictures of the Landy car and the Saddleback Dodge car, but not of the other ones.
Oops, I do have a pic of the Mancini car. I have always wondered about the other two cars, you would think there would be SOME documentation on them!?!
Quote: Oops, I do have a pic of the Mancini car. I have always wondered about the other two cars, you would think there would be SOME documentation on them!?!
Another M Code Cuda on Ebay. Amazing paperwork. It's the car found in a storage unit in central CA. Also the one that the exhaust manifolds sold on Ebay a few months ago belonged to.
Is this Green Dart the car from RKmotors mentioned previously? If so, this is my/Andy's old car. Has anyone seen the article in April 2014 MCG on the car?
Quote: Is this Green Dart the car from RKmotors mentioned previously? If so, this is my/Andy's old car. Has anyone seen the article in April 2014 MCG on the car?
Yes that M-code Dart photo I posted is from RK-Motors, I know the current owner. I didn't see the article and I have the issue
chuck thats gts is our old car i cant believe the guy in texas that had it after you, screwed up the interior like that even after i gave him all the proper codes to make a fendertag, the dash and upper door paint is supposed to be F3 green it looks terrible like that i wonder if anybody ever got a correct exhaust manifold for drivers side, and least the car finally got put back together and by the way the mcg story a made up joke as usual.
Quote: chuck thats gts is our old car i cant believe the guy in texas that had it after you screwed up the interior like that even after i gave him all the proper codes to make a fendertag the dash and upper door paint is supposed to be F3 green it looks terrible like that i wonder if anybody ever got a correct exhaust manifold for drivers side and least the car finally got put back together and by the way the mcg story a made up joke as usual.
It would be nice if you would clarify your story as it is kinda confusing. Please slow down and give us the facts, not the drivel you just posted. I am sure you know all about the car but there is not enough info and try using PUNCTUATION!
Yes it does pertain to me as I recommended the car to the man who bought it. I suggest you slow down enough to make coherent sentences... I DO CARE about EVERY Dodge Dart that has EVER been sold, clear enough for you?
dont worry player i know the history of the car back into very early 70`s its real,but from the pics of your 383 4spd car you did not care for that car too much
Sorry to interrupt your lively internet discussion. But I would like a few items clarified, if either one of you or someone else could please help me in the right direction as far as finish on several pieces of under car parts. First off the backing plates on the rearend black like the housing or natural? The center section same? The nuts that hold the center in, natural or correct finish? The lower control arms? Upper A arms? Front sway bar? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Quote: anyone know what the measurment of a m-code driveshaft is. mine got mixed up in a pile of assorted shafts years ago and i don't remember which one it is.
3.0 diameter by 48.88 long center to center of the u-joints.
both ends also neck down to 2 3/4 for about 4 inches(on my triple black cuda)
Quote: I will have to go back and look I have the car that was asked for. Thank you cudaman.
You're welcome, I'm thinking all those items you mention except the sway bar are natural finish with some type of clear coating applied-dipped?cosmolene?
I know it is an old post but there was a Dodge dealer in Santa Ana back in the 60's. It was L.D.Coughing or L.D. Coffing (not sure of the spelling). My uncle was service manager in 1966. I remember they had a red with white hemi 4 speed Charger in the showroom when new. I tried to find that dealership in 1997, the building may remain but I couldn't pick it out. All around that dealership were many rod shops. I think some famous car guys started in that area.
The article in MCG is totally screwed up as far as the documentation of the car goes...The history of this car is filled with so many inaccuracies, rumors of fact and wishful thinking on someones part. I'm not sure if this was intentional or not, and I am not going to speculate on it, as I have had no contact with the guy that bought it since I sold it. The facts stated below are what I told the guy I sold the car to. I hope the car has not been represented as anything other than this, but it sounds like it has.
To start with, I bought the car from Andy in 1996, not 1970 as the article stated. Andy can post the timeframes of when he owned the car, and if I recall, he also knew a few of the previous owners. But the story of the car from 1996 forward is this:
I bought the car and a 6-cylinder Dart WSS parts car from Andy and towed it to my house in San Diego from Lancaster, CA. It was not close to being a running car as the article stated. And I sure as heck wasn't the 1st, 2nd or even 3rd owner of the car. I don't know how many hands the car passed through (registered or not), but maybe Andy can give a better guess to that than I can.
The engine was partially assembled and sitting in the engine bay, the interior was sitting loosely inside the car, and the trunk was full of parts...
The car was painted light blue, but was originally dark green. It had the white tail stripe, as we found a small piece of the tape stripe in the trunk gutter.
One thing I want to be clear on, is that there is no documentation of anything that was stated in the MCG article. PERIOD!!!
1. Rumor, NOT fact. That the car came from Saddleback Dodge. There is NO documentation that the car came from Saddleback Dodge. No sales order, contract, nothing. This is just an undocumented "rumor". The Saddleback Dodge license plate frames that went with the car came from a friend of mine's car, a maroon 68 Dart (I traded a set of Direct Connection license plate frames for them). The CA license plates were bought from another friend of mine and are not original to the car (the car had NO license plates when I bought it).
2. Andy gave me a XEROX of the article in the Car Craft magazine. I tracked down several copies of the magazine. I met Mr. Norm at the SEMA show one year and talked to him about the car. He could not remember even what color the car was for the original CC article. He was really nice and we spoke for 15-20 minutes. He signed the copy of the magazine for me, but he DID NOT say my car was the car from the article. Once I had purchased the car, I contacted Petersen Publishing (Car Craft magazine) and asked if they had any documentation on the car. They stated they had NO documentation that would validate that this was the car used in the article (VIN, Bill of Sale, etc.). Since there are no color photos of the car in the article, it can really only be stated that the car in the article looks to be a medium/dark colored car (the pictures from CC appear to be of a much lighter car when you look at the original article and compare them to the pictures in the MCG article on page 69). Car Craft even ran my question for documentation of the car in their magazine in 1996 (I dont remember which month). I got no response from anyone.
3. There was no broadcast sheet or fender tag with the car. Galen had the fender tag made up for the owner I sold the car to. If I remember right, Andy said he found the interior in a GTS in a wrecking yard in Lancaster (correct me if I'm wrong Andy), so the original broadcast sheet was missing when he bought the car.
4. The engine is the matching VIN to the car (picture posted in this thread earlier), the transmission I gave the next owner was a 69 440 HP by the part number, but not matching numbers to the car (I'm not sure what transmission was used in the car though) that I bought.
5. 383 exhaust manifolds went with the car, not 440 manifolds. I could not find a set of 440 manifolds for sale that I could afford at the time.
6. Even the AM radio came from the parts car...so it may/may not be correct for the car. Not sure what was used for the VON on the fender tag either.
I spent several years and a lot of $$$ buying NOS for the car.
I took the car to a friend's body shop (Hot Rod Hell) for what was going to be a light cosmetic restoration back to more of a street/race car. As we tore the car apart, we realized the car had been cut up a lot more for racing than we initially expected. I spent a ton of $$$ having the quarters replaced, rear wheel wells repaired, inner fender panels replaced, rear seat braces put back in, firewall repaired, holes welded, console braces installed, etc. using parts cut from the parts car. I have pictures from the restoration that I have. I did give a set to the next owner of the car.
My friend closed his body shop due to health reasons before the car was finished, so we loaded the body on a dolly and hauled it home. I was getting ready to move to AZ at the time and decided to sell the car disassembled, even though I was taking a pretty big loss...that is when the car went to TX to be restored.
Galen inspected the car at that time at the request of the new owner, not at my request. Again, the fender tag was made after I sold the car.
The shop in TX redid much of the work I had done. I had many of the suspension/steering components powder-coated because I was planning on driving the car. The shop in TX redid all that... I had also painted the whole undercarriage of the car. The shop in TX redid everything I had done to the car up to that point.
If anyone has any specific questions, please feel free to ask them either here (PM) or through email. I am not on everyday, but will answer any specific questions to the best of my knowledge as soon as I can.
Hey Andy, maybe we should sit down and write a history of the car... 8-)
I don't want to imply the car is real or not (it is a real M code Dart, just the fact of whether or not it is the CC Magazine Drag Test car). I only want to state that there is no factual documentation of the history of the car (that I had). Andy may know more, but as far as I know there is no "paperwork" on the car to document any of what was stated in the article.
Quote: The article in MCG is totally screwed up as far as the documentation of the car goes...The history of this car is filled with so many inaccuracies, rumors of fact and wishful thinking on someones part. I'm not sure if this was intentional or not, and I am not going to speculate on it, as I have had no contact with the guy that bought it since I sold it. The facts stated below are what I told the guy I sold the car to. I hope the car has not been represented as anything other than this, but it sounds like it has.
Tooooo funny considering it was sold by RK Motors the home of the last Hemi and the 1st A12 Ronnie Sox mag test car...........how could anyone doubt the history and documentation?
that could be the car, but i know a friend of mine, not sure were he got it drove it to high school with tunnel ram and no hood and was the last one to drive on the street and that was very early 1970s, until whoever finished restoring it.
Quote: Is this statement even close to being true that "only about 30 M-Code Darts still exist":
Assembled as a run-of-the-mill 383 car, then transformed into a 440-powered strip streak by the Hurst-Campbell Corporation , this Dodge is one of only 640 M-code Darts produced for the 1969 model year. Most of those big engine warriors were sold to drag racers who needed something tough to whip at the track and, as a result, Chrysler expert Galen Govier estimates that only 30 still exist.
There are so many things wrong with the above bolded remarks.
1. Not much "run of the mill" about a 383 A body and were available and sold through the 1969 model years but few were sold in comparison to a true "run of the mill" Dart or Cuda.
2.Transformed by Hurst-No.
3. There was a progression for big block A bodies and it goes like this:
In 1967 Mr. Norm complained that the competition had a leg up on Mopar in our A body size cars and asked for a 383-4 Dart. Factory said it would not fit in current configured body. Weeks later Norm shows up in Detroit with a 383-4 powered Dart they built @ the dealership. They show it to engineering and they start building them.
Next year Norm asks for competition for the 396/375 Chevy Nova. Factory says if you buy 50 or more they will build them. Norm agrees and replaces the GTS emblem with another S in place of the T and calls the car a Grand Spalding Sport.
The ONLY A bodies that Hurst had anything to do with were the 1968 Hemi Darts and Cudas because they had too many modification to perform on the assembly line, so unfinished cars were sent there for completion.
ALL 1969 M code A bodies were build completely @ the factory assembly plant. They did "begin" as a 383 car on PAPER just as the 1969 A12 cars did but never had a 383 ACTUALLY installed in the car. This is why BOTH of these "package cars" use an M in the V.I.N. Package cars were expected to be limited production and they did not create a new engine code for the V.I.N. and rather created an option package with an assigned sales code listing specific equipment INCLUDING the engine to identify what the actual engine is. The V.I.N. just shows "special engine" for the M code. You have to refer to the factory sales code for the car to determine what engine the car actually has.
Sorry but that is partially incorrect.Hurst did do the conversion.Once again I was in the right place at the right time. I worked for a paint supply company that supplied Hurst with Ditzler auto paint and supplies.I saw them lined up back against the walls 2 rows with a 440 eng on a buck in front of each of the cars. I would guess about 40 cars at a time.IIRC all were complete running 383 cars.
Sorry but that is partially incorrect.Hurst did do the conversion.Once again I was in the right place at the right time. I worked for a paint supply company that supplied Hurst with Ditzler auto paint and supplies.I saw them lined up back against the walls 2 rows with a 440 eng on a buck in front of each of the cars. I would guess about 40 cars at a time.IIRC all were complete running 383 cars.
I guess this is an on going subject...Factory built or Hurst??????
I thought someone that worked at Hurst has stated that the Darts or 'cudas were NOT done at Hurst????
Quote: Is this statement even close to being true that "only about 30 M-Code Darts still exist":
Assembled as a run-of-the-mill 383 car, then transformed into a 440-powered strip streak by the Hurst-Campbell Corporation , this Dodge is one of only 640 M-code Darts produced for the 1969 model year. Most of those big engine warriors were sold to drag racers who needed something tough to whip at the track and, as a result, Chrysler expert Galen Govier estimates that only 30 still exist.
There are so many things wrong with the above bolded remarks.
1. Not much "run of the mill" about a 383 A body and were available and sold through the 1969 model years but few were sold in comparison to a true "run of the mill" Dart or Cuda.
2.Transformed by Hurst-No.
3. There was a progression for big block A bodies and it goes like this:
In 1967 Mr. Norm complained that the competition had a leg up on Mopar in our A body size cars and asked for a 383-4 Dart. Factory said it would not fit in current configured body. Weeks later Norm shows up in Detroit with a 383-4 powered Dart they built @ the dealership. They show it to engineering and they start building them.
Next year Norm asks for competition for the 396/375 Chevy Nova. Factory says if you buy 50 or more they will build them. Norm agrees and replaces the GTS emblem with another S in place of the T and calls the car a Grand Spalding Sport.
The ONLY A bodies that Hurst had anything to do with were the 1968 Hemi Darts and Cudas because they had too many modification to perform on the assembly line, so unfinished cars were sent there for completion.
ALL 1969 M code A bodies were build completely @ the factory assembly plant. They did "begin" as a 383 car on PAPER just as the 1969 A12 cars did but never had a 383 ACTUALLY installed in the car. This is why BOTH of these "package cars" use an M in the V.I.N. Package cars were expected to be limited production and they did not create a new engine code for the V.I.N. and rather created an option package with an assigned sales code listing specific equipment INCLUDING the engine to identify what the actual engine is. The V.I.N. just shows "special engine" for the M code. You have to refer to the factory sales code for the car to determine what engine the car actually has.
Sorry but that is partially incorrect.Hurst did do the conversion.Once again I was in the right place at the right time. I worked for a paint supply company that supplied Hurst with Ditzler auto paint and supplies.I saw them lined up back against the walls 2 rows with a 440 eng on a buck in front of each of the cars. I would guess about 40 cars at a time.IIRC all were complete running 383 cars.
This is the email reply my retired friend and 40+ year Dodge engineer got from his friend that knows as much or more than anyone of what went on back then.....(Sorry but I have to block out the names of the responders in their email to me with **** and ####)
The email reply to the question of how were the big block 383 and 440 A-bodies built in '69:
Hi! ****!
The big block A-Bodies were built in 3 years - 1967-68-69. Most were 383's - about 3000 per year. There were 980 A-Body 440's in 1969 - 640 Darts & 340 Baccacudas. There were 50 440-Darts built in 1968 (no Barracudas). To the best of my knowledge, Hurst did not build any of these cars. They were busy building 1968 Hemi SS cars in '68 and then built the '69 AMX SS cars in '69.
The original 383 A-Body in 1967 used a unique left front motor mount (2 or 3 bolts into the block) somewhat like the 426 Hemi mount. They also used log exhaust manifolds. In '68, they revised the mount so they could use the typical B-engine ears but the mount is unique to the A-Body. The '69 440 had a similar problem (as I remember) but they didn't want to use the '67 solution. I think they either used special exhaust manifolds or a spacer in the mount or both. Note - the '68 383 got better exhaust manifolds but the nice B-body ones didn't fit.
The question would be the '68 50-car build. they might have been built by Hurst but I thought they were done at the plant similar to police cars. There were a lot of things going on at this time because the cars didn't have to be certified. I think that Hurst was involved with Mr. Norm and may have built some to his specifications (not included in above discussion).
Sorry - ****! The old memory can't seem to remember all these details!
Quote: Is this statement even close to being true that "only about 30 M-Code Darts still exist":
Assembled as a run-of-the-mill 383 car, then transformed into a 440-powered strip streak by the Hurst-Campbell Corporation , this Dodge is one of only 640 M-code Darts produced for the 1969 model year. Most of those big engine warriors were sold to drag racers who needed something tough to whip at the track and, as a result, Chrysler expert Galen Govier estimates that only 30 still exist.
There are so many things wrong with the above bolded remarks.
1. Not much "run of the mill" about a 383 A body and were available and sold through the 1969 model years but few were sold in comparison to a true "run of the mill" Dart or Cuda.
2.Transformed by Hurst-No.
3. There was a progression for big block A bodies and it goes like this:
In 1967 Mr. Norm complained that the competition had a leg up on Mopar in our A body size cars and asked for a 383-4 Dart. Factory said it would not fit in current configured body. Weeks later Norm shows up in Detroit with a 383-4 powered Dart they built @ the dealership. They show it to engineering and they start building them.
Next year Norm asks for competition for the 396/375 Chevy Nova. Factory says if you buy 50 or more they will build them. Norm agrees and replaces the GTS emblem with another S in place of the T and calls the car a Grand Spalding Sport.
The ONLY A bodies that Hurst had anything to do with were the 1968 Hemi Darts and Cudas because they had too many modification to perform on the assembly line, so unfinished cars were sent there for completion.
ALL 1969 M code A bodies were build completely @ the factory assembly plant. They did "begin" as a 383 car on PAPER just as the 1969 A12 cars did but never had a 383 ACTUALLY installed in the car. This is why BOTH of these "package cars" use an M in the V.I.N. Package cars were expected to be limited production and they did not create a new engine code for the V.I.N. and rather created an option package with an assigned sales code listing specific equipment INCLUDING the engine to identify what the actual engine is. The V.I.N. just shows "special engine" for the M code. You have to refer to the factory sales code for the car to determine what engine the car actually has.
Sorry but that is partially incorrect.Hurst did do the conversion.Once again I was in the right place at the right time. I worked for a paint supply company that supplied Hurst with Ditzler auto paint and supplies.I saw them lined up back against the walls 2 rows with a 440 eng on a buck in front of each of the cars. I would guess about 40 cars at a time.IIRC all were complete running 383 cars.
This is the email reply my retired friend and 40+ year Dodge engineer got from his friend that knows as much or more than anyone of what went on back then.....(Sorry but I have to block out the names of the responders in their email to me with **** and ####)
The email reply to the question of how were the big block 383 and 440 A-bodies built in '69:
Hi! ****!
The big block A-Bodies were built in 3 years - 1967-68-69. Most were 383's - about 3000 per year. There were 980 A-Body 440's in 1969 - 640 Darts & 340 Baccacudas. There were 50 440-Darts built in 1968 (no Barracudas). To the best of my knowledge, Hurst did not build any of these cars. They were busy building 1968 Hemi SS cars in '68 and then built the '69 AMX SS cars in '69.
The original 383 A-Body in 1967 used a unique left front motor mount (2 or 3 bolts into the block) somewhat like the 426 Hemi mount. They also used log exhaust manifolds. In '68, they revised the mount so they could use the typical B-engine ears but the mount is unique to the A-Body. The '69 440 had a similar problem (as I remember) but they didn't want to use the '67 solution. I think they either used special exhaust manifolds or a spacer in the mount or both. Note - the '68 383 got better exhaust manifolds but the nice B-body ones didn't fit.
The question would be the '68 50-car build. they might have been built by Hurst but I thought they were done at the plant similar to police cars. There were a lot of things going on at this time because the cars didn't have to be certified. I think that Hurst was involved with Mr. Norm and may have built some to his specifications (not included in above discussion).
Sorry - ****! The old memory can't seem to remember all these details!
Thanks! #####
So much wrong with that particular anecdote it isn't even funny. Take a look at gtsregistry.com for the real info. I have owned half-a-dozen 67 383 Dart GTS's and they never used "log" manifolds and the motor mount came from the 65 C-body 383 cars! Maybe I should finally put all the bad info to rest and write a true history of the big block A-Body's.
Quote: Is this statement even close to being true that "only about 30 M-Code Darts still exist":
Assembled as a run-of-the-mill 383 car, then transformed into a 440-powered strip streak by the Hurst-Campbell Corporation , this Dodge is one of only 640 M-code Darts produced for the 1969 model year. Most of those big engine warriors were sold to drag racers who needed something tough to whip at the track and, as a result, Chrysler expert Galen Govier estimates that only 30 still exist.
There are so many things wrong with the above bolded remarks.
1. Not much "run of the mill" about a 383 A body and were available and sold through the 1969 model years but few were sold in comparison to a true "run of the mill" Dart or Cuda.
2.Transformed by Hurst-No.
3. There was a progression for big block A bodies and it goes like this:
In 1967 Mr. Norm complained that the competition had a leg up on Mopar in our A body size cars and asked for a 383-4 Dart. Factory said it would not fit in current configured body. Weeks later Norm shows up in Detroit with a 383-4 powered Dart they built @ the dealership. They show it to engineering and they start building them.
Next year Norm asks for competition for the 396/375 Chevy Nova. Factory says if you buy 50 or more they will build them. Norm agrees and replaces the GTS emblem with another S in place of the T and calls the car a Grand Spalding Sport.
The ONLY A bodies that Hurst had anything to do with were the 1968 Hemi Darts and Cudas because they had too many modification to perform on the assembly line, so unfinished cars were sent there for completion.
ALL 1969 M code A bodies were build completely @ the factory assembly plant. They did "begin" as a 383 car on PAPER just as the 1969 A12 cars did but never had a 383 ACTUALLY installed in the car. This is why BOTH of these "package cars" use an M in the V.I.N. Package cars were expected to be limited production and they did not create a new engine code for the V.I.N. and rather created an option package with an assigned sales code listing specific equipment INCLUDING the engine to identify what the actual engine is. The V.I.N. just shows "special engine" for the M code. You have to refer to the factory sales code for the car to determine what engine the car actually has.
Sorry but that is partially incorrect.Hurst did do the conversion.Once again I was in the right place at the right time. I worked for a paint supply company that supplied Hurst with Ditzler auto paint and supplies.I saw them lined up back against the walls 2 rows with a 440 eng on a buck in front of each of the cars. I would guess about 40 cars at a time.IIRC all were complete running 383 cars.
This is the email reply my retired friend and 40+ year Dodge engineer got from his friend that knows as much or more than anyone of what went on back then.....(Sorry but I have to block out the names of the responders in their email to me with **** and ####)
The email reply to the question of how were the big block 383 and 440 A-bodies built in '69:
Hi! ****!
The big block A-Bodies were built in 3 years - 1967-68-69. Most were 383's - about 3000 per year. There were 980 A-Body 440's in 1969 - 640 Darts & 340 Baccacudas. There were 50 440-Darts built in 1968 (no Barracudas). To the best of my knowledge, Hurst did not build any of these cars. They were busy building 1968 Hemi SS cars in '68 and then built the '69 AMX SS cars in '69.
The original 383 A-Body in 1967 used a unique left front motor mount (2 or 3 bolts into the block) somewhat like the 426 Hemi mount. They also used log exhaust manifolds. In '68, they revised the mount so they could use the typical B-engine ears but the mount is unique to the A-Body. The '69 440 had a similar problem (as I remember) but they didn't want to use the '67 solution. I think they either used special exhaust manifolds or a spacer in the mount or both. Note - the '68 383 got better exhaust manifolds but the nice B-body ones didn't fit.
The question would be the '68 50-car build. they might have been built by Hurst but I thought they were done at the plant similar to police cars. There were a lot of things going on at this time because the cars didn't have to be certified. I think that Hurst was involved with Mr. Norm and may have built some to his specifications (not included in above discussion).
Sorry - ****! The old memory can't seem to remember all these details!
Thanks! #####
So much wrong with that particular anecdote it isn't even funny. Take a look at gtsregistry.com for the real info. I have owned half-a-dozen 67 383 Dart GTS's and they never used "log" manifolds and the motor mount came from the 65 C-body 383 cars! Maybe I should finally put all the bad info to rest and write a true history of the big block A-Body's.
65 Chry driver side mount was one bolt on the front of block and 2 on the block.
Sorry - ****! The old memory can't seem to remember all these details!
Quote: 65 Chry driver side mount was one bolt on the front of block and 2 on the block.
Sorry - ****! The old memory can't seem to remember all these details!
My old memory is excellent. Built at Hurst.
All of them? Some of them? Some of the 50 Mr. Norm cars?
I'm pretty confident that the Dodge built M-Code Darts were all built by Dodge at Hamtramck and only some (most likely) or maybe all of the Mr. Norm cars were done by Hurst. What on the '69 M-Code Dart and Cuda was so special that it couldn't be done on the normal assembly line at Hamtramck? An engine mount and a left side exhaust manifold? How did Hamtramck do the 383 if is was so special that it took an outside company to put an almost similar (440) big block into the Dart and Cuda?
The A12's were all done in-house (but often rumored to have been done outside too) and they had way more special components to put on than the M-code Darts and Cudas.
Gotta love it.Eye witness accounts mean nothing.Maybe I thought I was at Hurst on 10 mile rd in Warren,Mi and instead I was at Hamtramck.Cars I saw were not for Mr Norm.Darts and Cudas.BTW A-12 Hoods were done at Creative.
Here is the real problem.For years experts have been wrong on certain issues (e.g,A-12,Hemi fenders,Superbirds, Six Pac and AAR hoods)telling everyone that this or that happened.Don't look too expert when the real story comes out do they? That's the problem.They like being the man. I am not wasting any more time trying to help out with the real story.I get nothing out of this.I am not writing a book,documenting every car made or touring the country as some guru. Next you will be telling me that I never worked at Painters Supply or Creative Industies.Maybe they never existed.Maybe my life three life long friends that worked at Creative are FOS too.I am done,carry on.
Quote: Gotta love it.Eye witness accounts mean nothing.Maybe I thought I was at Hurst on 10 mile rd in Warren,Mi and instead I was at Hamtramck.Cars I saw were not for Mr Norm.Darts and Cudas.BTW A-12 Hoods were done at Creative.
Here is the real problem.For years experts have been wrong on certain issues (e.g,A-12,Hemi fenders,Superbirds, Six Pac and AAR hoods)telling everyone that this or that happened.Don't look too expert when the real story comes out do they? That's the problem.They like being the man. I am not wasting any more time trying to help out with the real story.I get nothing out of this.I am not writing a book,documenting every car made or touring the country as some guru. Next you will be telling me that I never worked at Painters Supply or Creative Industies.Maybe they never existed.Maybe my life three life long friends that worked at Creative are FOS too.I am done,carry on.
Mike please don't take it personal, threads like this are how we tend to get a better idea of how it actually happened. You say that all 980 '69 M-code A-bodies were done by Hurst and Jim has documentation for the Hurst 48+2 '68's and no one has produced any documentation that says Hurst did anymore than those 48. Did you see nearly a 1000 '69 A-body M-codes built by Hurst when you worked there?
Quote: Gotta love it.Eye witness accounts mean nothing.Maybe I thought I was at Hurst on 10 mile rd in Warren,Mi and instead I was at Hamtramck.Cars I saw were not for Mr Norm.Darts and Cudas.BTW A-12 Hoods were done at Creative.
Here is the real problem.For years experts have been wrong on certain issues (e.g,A-12,Hemi fenders,Superbirds, Six Pac and AAR hoods)telling everyone that this or that happened.Don't look too expert when the real story comes out do they? That's the problem.They like being the man. I am not wasting any more time trying to help out with the real story.I get nothing out of this.I am not writing a book,documenting every car made or touring the country as some guru. Next you will be telling me that I never worked at Painters Supply or Creative Industies.Maybe they never existed.Maybe my life three life long friends that worked at Creative are FOS too.I am done,carry on.
I'm interested in what you say, can you tell me what year and month you saw these cars? I prefer eye witness instead of reading about a dudes friend who knows a guy who says someone told his wife that's where they where made. That's some good paper on the 68s i want to see the same for the 69s
Quote: Gotta love it.Eye witness accounts mean nothing.Maybe I thought I was at Hurst on 10 mile rd in Warren,Mi and instead I was at Hamtramck.Cars I saw were not for Mr Norm.Darts and Cudas.BTW A-12 Hoods were done at Creative.
Here is the real problem.For years experts have been wrong on certain issues (e.g,A-12,Hemi fenders,Superbirds, Six Pac and AAR hoods)telling everyone that this or that happened.Don't look too expert when the real story comes out do they? That's the problem.They like being the man. I am not wasting any more time trying to help out with the real story.I get nothing out of this.I am not writing a book,documenting every car made or touring the country as some guru. Next you will be telling me that I never worked at Painters Supply or Creative Industies.Maybe they never existed.Maybe my life three life long friends that worked at Creative are FOS too.I am done,carry on.
I'm interested in what you say, can you tell me what year and month you saw these cars? I prefer eye witness instead of reading about a dudes friend who knows a guy who says someone told his wife that's where they where made. That's some good paper on the 68s i want to see the same for the 69s
I agree, don't take my post as putting anyone down, we all want to learn as much as possible about these cars. There were 7 production dates for Darts and 3 for Barracuda's so that pretty much tells us why there were a lot more Darts than Barracuda's. I find it very hard to believe that they were done at Creative.
Quote: Ok guys any views, comments , opinions, ideas, what are you doing on your car? We gotta keep the thread going so it won't be buried again!
Okay..I just bought a "065" radiator to replace the original that mysteriously disappeared from some dudes M-code Dart when stored at a friends place for a long time......that's all I gots
Oh and I do know a dude that his wife is married to an engineer that worked for Dodge for 43-years from 1962 - 2005 and was in charge of engine and power train developement and a member of the Ramchargers that said his friend knew someone that also worked there but didn't know anything about some sort of M-code stuff but did hear that they did put the /6 in the Dart at one time, and so I called BS.... and then she said he likes ice cream.
Quote: Ok guys any views, comments , opinions, ideas, what are you doing on your car? We gotta keep the thread going so it won't be buried again!
Okay..I just bought a "065" radiator to replace the original that mysteriously disappeared from some dudes M-code Dart when stored at a friends place for a long time....
ALSO, i just UNEARTHED another M-cuda FB that's very likely new for my registry. I have to check the number and will post a couple of pics. This one just sold from what i know.....pretty rough condition.
Ha, thanks! It has a bit of rust in front of the right rear quarter and the paint is crap, but it's fun watching people check out the VIN at shows. Here it is in the late 80s, pre-paint job.
How many m codes are gonna make it to Carlisle? I am trying but not sure if it will be painted or not. Any more information on the new addition? Looks like it was red under the tail panel.
Quote: Dave may have gotten it, where you at Dave? I have a friend who has an 893 oil pan and pick-up for $800! [/quote)
Dan in Washington got the manifolds, oil pan, sway bar and motor mount.....he claims he has someone that needs them and a trade on a hemi.....i tried my best to get him to leave them with the car and keep it complete
The pic I posted was from someone that was trying to buy it, but missed out.
I found this letter in the console of my m-code cuda when i bought it. the envelope was adressed to Ted Schlutter, the owner of the dealership that sold it new.
I need the rear fastback glass rubber for my Cuda. Who has the best repoduction piece or your experence with? I would prefer an original one but...? X9 X9
I had thought I saw that he picked it up for around $12K for some reason back when he got it. I swear it was posted somewhere for a price around that and then it was gone. Was it "worse" than that? The guy seemed like a mopar guy not a flipper from the posts he put up of the car right after he got it. Not trying to get nosey just wondering what the story really is on the car.
Hey Dave, Did you read the question and answer part of that notch back for sale on e-bay? Would be nice to talk with Joes friend, maybe get some solid info about these cars if he bought one new. I don't think what he said about the dist. was correct but...I would like to know when and who told him about them being built at Hurst.
I will throw the BS flag on that one as everyone I have seen or talked to the owners of had a single point. My dad's has a single point with it and it is the #'s engine and is date code correct for the car's batch run. I would love to hear input from other M code owners on it.
Quote: I had thought I saw that he picked it up for around $12K for some reason back when he got it. I swear it was posted somewhere for a price around that and then it was gone. Was it "worse" than that? The guy seemed like a mopar guy not a flipper from the posts he put up of the car right after he got it. Not trying to get nosey just wondering what the story really is on the car.
I saw where the owner had stated in a recent WIW thread about selling the car due to purchasing some property. I was like you I almost know I saw the car listed for sale a couple years back at 12-13K. I was thinking craigslist as I remember pictures and a price but who knows. Of coarse we have to also remember that things change in life and our priority does too. Matt
Yes, it's been on ebay before. Guy did a good job on the resto.....just wish he did the black out behind the grills!!
He needs the black fiber board rear seat/trunk divider for coupes that covers up the seat springs too.
Hey, I have one of those.
The "W23 Small bolt Kelsey Hayes Recall wheels" should be worth a goodly fraction of the US $59,999.00. I think there used to be very good repros in the small bolt pattern, but they were way expensive.
Quote: Red fender liners. Never knew they had that.
They were an option on all Barracudas except convertibles. Order/option code was J35 (wheelhouse liners) at $52.65.
What has puzzled me over the years is why they were shipped loose to be installed at the dealer, instead of the factory doing it. I am assuming the price list info is correct regarding that.
Quote: What has puzzled me over the years is why they were shipped loose to be installed at the dealer, instead of the factory doing it. I am assuming the price list info is correct regarding that.
If they were indeed shipped loose to be installed at the dealership, I would "ASSUME" when properly installed, they interfere with the shipping tie down points.
Quote: My motor is back from Koffels place. All ready for assembly. Should I put the stock cam back into it or go with the .484? I have it new in the box.
Can you say AGGRAVATION, low vacuum,bad idle, not worth th hassel, 440 is powerfull enough to fry those little tires. After the first couple of guard rail encounters you might want to de-tune it.
This might be the one that was up at Carlisle maybe ten years ago in the show area. I looked it over pretty good, didn't have the torque boxes and a lot of repo parts,not to original in some ways, other than that its nice.IMO
I am a little shocked that this car is not moving at all on the price?? What is wrong with this one holding it back as it is a no reserve auction and he can only stop the auction if it is done before it gets down to the last 12 hours. I wonder if it gets pulled today before then? I would have said the LOW end on a driver M code cuda would be in the 30's and on up based on quality. Am I missing something on this one ??
Yeah I thought it was odd to have no reserve! Looks like he ended the auction. I asked him to email me on my m-cuda only address to discuss the car. He hasn't contacted me, so I don't know if it's still owned by the same person in the registry?
Just wondering if there is a paint code for the black on the lower front and rear body or should I just get the stripes and match it to that? And who makes the most accurate stripes for the cuda? Paint is soon to fly and I need to get the black done first.
Quote: Just wondering if there is a paint code for the black on the lower front and rear body or should I just get the stripes and match it to that? And who makes the most accurate stripes for the cuda? Paint is soon to fly and I need to get the black done first.
Quote: Just wondering if there is a paint code for the black on the lower front and rear body or should I just get the stripes and match it to that? And who makes the most accurate stripes for the cuda? Paint is soon to fly and I need to get the black done first.
No paint code as far as i know.
Is it flat black or the black hood textured paint?
Speaking of paint codes, is there a paint code for the red stripes on the rear panel of 1969 Barracudas? If not, what red would you suggest (Tremclad, etc.)?
Wow I missed the relist and if he did sell it at that is seems like a good buy for the bidder! Could not even come close to restoring one for that let alone the cost of the car.
This one just came up for sale: 88000 1969 Plymouth Barracuda This stunning "M" www.barrettjacksoncollectionshowroom.com/1969-Plymouth-Barracuda.html This stunning "M" code 440cid 1969 Plymouth Barracuda was sold new to ... new paint by RRS Texas, it is the only triple Black "M" Code fastback in the registry.
Quote: This one just came up for sale: 88000 1969 Plymouth Barracuda This stunning "M" www.barrettjacksoncollectionshowroom.com/1969-Plymouth-Barracuda.html This stunning "M" code 440cid 1969 Plymouth Barracuda was sold new to ... new paint by RRS Texas, it is the only triple Black "M" Code fastback in the registry.
They like to stretch the truth or not research it, cause i got a 27,000 mile triple black also and mine been in the registry for 15 years at least. $88,000... hope he gets it, i feel giddy inside.
This was Scott Linsay's (spelling??) car. Look back in this forum for pics I posted of the car at Carlisle 2-3 years ago! From what I know it was purchased from Scott and went to a shop in Denton Texas. While at the shop it changed ownership.
There are 5 black fastbacks in the registry.
If BJ's are such experts why is it listed as a COUPE??
I wish I could find/get to more pics! Finally seeing a black 'cuda package car with the stripes on it!!!!....looks amazing...I have a BLACK on BLACK 'cuda package 340 auto notch(1 of 30 built) That i'm starting on.
Wow that is a long thread , very interesting about the M code Barracuda's , I am looking for a pair or at least one of the Saddleback Dodge License Plate Fames , as these were mentioned in this discussion , thanks.
Well Dave asked me post a few pics of my recent find of a 69 M Code Dart and no it is not in the registry. Car was sold new in Columbus Ohio and still has the Caldwell Dodge dealer sticker on the deck lid. I recently went through Ohio and the dealership is still in the same place it was since the mid 50's and still owned by the same family. The car has original motor, build sheet in mint condition and original fender tag, tranny is MIA. Car was found in Knoxville off of a craigs list ad with a one line advertisement. Thanks to a super guy named Gary for the lead I purchased this long dormant beast. I am planning a full restoration of it and got lucky as it had all of these NOS pieces in the original boxes and packages, GTS grille, GTS deck lid finish panel, WOM, rocker mouldings, Hood front trim, and car is wearing it original paint except for the doors and hood which were changed out along its way of previous owners. Here are some pics look for the restoration to follow once I have lined up all the pieces I need. If you know of any NOS 69 Dart pieces drop me a PM and would love to find the 727 transmission part number 2892093 with the vin number 9B344405 ( will pay a finders fee for its return), could be in Columbus Ohio area or El Paso Tx.
P.S. would take a date code 2892093 which was in all 383 B Body cars also, so should be one out there.
Quote: blewbyu, thanks for posting up your GREAT find!!! Sure to get some nice comments! Forgot or didn't realize you have that sweet A4 Bee!!
Cool to see the dealership is still open, did you talk to anyone there about the Dart????
Yes I did talk to some people, the grandson of Mr. Caldwell runs the dealership. I was trying to find out if they had any info on old cars purchased at the dealership but they kind looked at me like I was crazy. LOL The grandson was not in at the time but thier leasing agent was working there in 69 when my car was sold but was out of the office. I have there names and need to call the leasing agent and see if he remembers the car, they could not have sold that many M Codes I would not think and maybe he will remember the car.
Nice find, hope they keep the 440 hood inserts with the different hood. Scott has the trans you need, a core, look for him in the parts for sale section $$.
Quote: Nice find, hope they keep the 440 hood inserts with the different hood. Scott has the trans you need, a core, look for him in the parts for sale section $$.
Already talked to him, his are wrong date codes, plus pricey compared to what I have bought that part number for in the past.
Guys, check out this post on abodies.com. If your not a member you will not see pics. Anyways this guy that is putting all the info seams to know his STUFF!!!!!!!!
Okay guys it is finally time to get my Dad's M code dart started on its road to a full resto as the car is heading off to body. We are going to get the drivetrain started here on our end. We have the #'s block but tans is long gone. I have seen a debate over the code on the 727, some say it should be a 091 and some say 093. I wanted someone to chime in with a solid yes it was this so I can get one lined up. I know there are MANY of you out there with extensive A body knowledge so any help would be greatly appreciated!
Also does anyone know a source for the M code drivers side motor mount? I know a member had been making them but I think he stopped doing it. Thanks
Quote: I'm in the process of buying a survivor 69 M code nothback....F6 color needs total resto
Hope I will get my hands on it !!!
I could see F6 on a Dart, but be careful if it's on a Barracuda. Rallye Green code 97 would be on a Plymouth but I don't recall ever seeing an A-body that colour although I am more of a b-body guy. Just a heads up...it would be cool to see a Rallye Green Cuda 440.
Great looking car, for me I would have liked a bit more tire and rim out back, lost the redlines and turned down the front end a bit for a better stance.
I think that is a good buy if it looks as good as it does in the pics.
I met a local guy that bought a M-Dart back in the '70s. He'll be renting storage by my friend's shop and moving it there, he claims it's a tan color, not Y3 cream? Will keep updated as I get to know this guy and his M-Dart! He also has a '69 340 GTS!
Finally the last piece! After two years of searching, placing craigslist wanted ads from coast to coast, gougers, scammers and hoarders, I found a 3462017 for a bargin price! Somebody on craigslist saw my ad and told a guy who racing his car in 71, took off manifolds for headers, been sitting ever since. I knew they were still out there in the corner of someone's garage. And just 20 miles up the road.
Quote: Finally the last piece! After two years of searching, placing craigslist wanted ads from coast to coast, gougers, scammers and hoarders, I found a 3462017 for a bargin price! Somebody on craigslist saw my ad and told a guy who racing his car in 71, took off manifolds for headers, been sitting ever since. I knew they were still out there in the corner of someone's garage. And just 20 miles up the road.
Awsome good find, go ahead and tease everyone, I did when i found them at a bargin. Not all people are out to kill you when they know it will go to a good home.
Got a question on our M code I hope you guys can help me with. When we got the car it had a set of rollers tack welded to the torque boxes and when it was moved one of the boxes split. Did M codes use B body torque boxes or were they special to the A body M code as I did not think any other A bodies got them? I could have ours welded up and fixed but I am not sure I trust them after being split the whole length of the box.
Not sure what you mean, pretty much all 4-speed A-Body's got rear torque boxes and they are reproduced. They are the same as the torque boxes used on M-Codes. No B-Body frame parts work on an A-Body.
Thanks Rhino. Maybe that is where I got confused as I knew no auto A bodies got the box but I did not know that 4 speeds got them. I would have assumed the 383 4 speeds would have but did not know for sure. I thought I had read that some of the early M codes did not have the boxes? Am I correct there or just smoking something?
My 4-speed 69 Barracuda coupe has both front and rear torque boxes.
It is total hit-and-miss on 4-speed cars. My 69 383 4-speed GTS has them front and rear but that seems to be the rare case as I have seen many more 4-speed A-Body's with just rears.
GUYS, this M-fastback is back on the market. This is Scott's old car that sold at BJ for $48k. Lots of pics and good video! It actually has a 383 motor mount, NOT 440!!! But the unknowing guy thinks it's correct. Just like he states that only 440 cars have torque boxes. Car also doesn't have lower body stripes and flat black front and rear valence! Not #'s motor or trans.
Good note is the undercarriage is all original, not restored.
Glad I watched it, always wondered about the paint marking on my rear axle and even though they are bold and bright I put them back. This is the first BB A-body I have seen with basically the same markings. While mine is only the 383 it has a lot in common and yes the 383 cars had torque boxes as well not just 440 thing. Guess what they are saying is this car in the link must be a fake cause it has none.
This car (Black One) has sold in the past for good money and seems to be unfinished in many respects.
My 4-speed 69 Barracuda coupe has both front and rear torque boxes.
Yeah, but what motor is in it?? I bet 340?
Good guess, being as how my log in name is "...340". So, my measly 340 Barracuda has all four torque boxes, and meanwhile the green and black 'Cuda 440s above have only 2 and none.
My 4-speed 69 Barracuda coupe has both front and rear torque boxes.
Yeah, but what motor is in it?? I bet 340?
Good guess, being as how my log in name is "...340". So, my measly 340 Barracuda has all four torque boxes, and meanwhile the green and black 'Cuda 440s above have only 2 and none.
Yeah but i noticed that AFTER i wrote it!!! I personally have not seen a BB bcuda or Dart with both front and rear boxes! I have 6 '69 BB Bcudas/'cudas and all only have rears weather 383, 440, auto or 4 speed. Have a '69 340 4spd with both, '69 340 auto with none. This seams to be the norm.
Now green one on the market. This guy has owned a long time. It's about an hour south of me. http://www.ebay.com/itm/251952437728?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT buy it now $36k
Dave, this looks like the car of the guy I talked to for awhile up at Carlisle in 09. Very unmolested car, rough but a good reference type with everything in the right place. I think if I remember right, the fender 440 call outs where different than the others, on original fenders and no repairs. He was thinking of restoring but was siding with leaving it alone because of the originality part.
Dave, this looks like the car of the guy I talked to for awhile up at Carlisle in 09. Very unmolested car, rough but a good reference type with everything in the right place. I think if I remember right, the fender 440 call outs where different than the others, on original fenders and no repairs. He was thinking of restoring but was siding with leaving it alone because of the originality part.
Yes, he was there. He's had it a long time, hate to see him get rid of it. He said he's loosing storage and had to decide what car to sell. Probably back around 1996 i went to a local spring show. He was behind me on the street and i saw the MCODE plates in the mirror. Ends up we parked back to back in the show!! I had a '70 Superbee 440-6, 4spd, supertrack pac at the time. That's the car i sold to buy my 440 green notch!!!!
The blue unrestored Dart was there. He lives in that area. He is always in the show field, it is worn and well used but I would drive the wheels off of it.
On another note I hope you are the one that scored the 065 Radiator!!@!!
Yes I did score another Barn Find M Code Last month. Real solid body with only one rust spot on lower DS 1/4. Missing the original drive train as the original owner put a Hemi in it when it was only 6 month old. I have some really cool pics of it. Here is some from its days of being stored.
If it is the one with the black hood the last I saw it was on eBay and don't think it met reserve.
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Sure would like to go for that car but it needs a lot of work. From the pictures it sure looks a bit rough given its been a drag car most of its life. I think the guy who owns it is a wee bit steep on the price.
Does anyone on here know where I can find a drivers side motor mount for our M code dart? I know someone used to make them but he stopped. anyone have one sitting around??
Dan Corley (six pack Fury guy) made them, I bought one from him but don't know what happened to him or if he had any left. I have met the guy with the Wild Thing several times and he is a little odd, but seemed to be a decent guy, but he never told me he was selling the M-Code! I still want to buy a set of Hemi Super Stock cards he had, hopefully he will be at the Belivdere show with them again this year.
Did we ever decide on what dist. these M codes should have? The part #? I know I had posted it about a year ago and blewbyu and I were both interested but I don't think anyone ever could find the part #.
Did we ever decide on what dist. these M codes should have? The part #? I know I had posted it about a year ago and blewbyu and I were both interested but I don't think anyone ever could find the part #.
The same dist that came on B-bodies with 440 and auto trans......i will post the number tomorrow.
dist # ....Original #2875758 Replacement #2875759
Single point '69, 440-4 HP, Auto A, B,& C Body
No tag, number is stamped on the pad of the housing
Did we ever decide on what dist. these M codes should have? The part #? I know I had posted it about a year ago and blewbyu and I were both interested but I don't think anyone ever could find the part #.
The same dist that came on B-bodies with 440 and auto trans......i will post the number tomorrow.
dist # ....Original #2875758 Replacement #2875759
Single point '69, 440-4 HP, Auto A, B,& C Body
No tag, number is stamped on the pad of the housing
Got me thinking, went and looked at my dist, it has a tag with that number(2875758) attached with one of the screws?? Came with car, thought it was correct
Got me thinking, went and looked at my dist, it has a tag with that number(2875758) attached with one of the screws?? Came with car, thought it was correct
I'm no expert, yours is likely correct. I'll check my FB that is original to the car I believe......
I'm in the process of getting my engine ready to paint and was wondering what all is on the motor when it was painted from the factory? Sending units, fuel pump, pulleys, motor mounts, alternator brackets? I know the 2 ground wires get painted I still have the factory ones. And the flexplate and convertor were bolted on as well with some overspray on them. Guy I got it from did a nice job of documenting everything when it was taken apart, I'm just looking for some clarification on a few items. Thanks in advance.
Exhaust manifolds are on too, mine still has orange paint not burned off. 13 miles then removed for headers. I'll try for a pic latter. Can't imagine the converter would be mounted, would be a b!t€h to install trans. Trans could have been installed and sprayed through the starter hole. Had a lot of pics on my phone from an original car, but phone got run over with my mower, they went to picture heaven.
From the Glory days. It was also pictured in Mopar Collectors guide in Nov 2008 from an old photo and labeled as Wild Thing.
The seats look white in the picture?
Yes it is a factory White interior. Once this car got parked it all went down hill from there. The white buckets and rear seat got removed over the years along with the console. The rest of the interior is all there with white upper door paint and white door panels, white headliner and arm rest. The black dash pad is perfect and never got robbed.
As nice as this car was in its glory days its amazing to see how a car put in a barn for 36 years and forgotten can look. The body is really solid but items got robbed off of it over the years.
I made a good score the other day as a local guy was selling his 68 New Yorker. I had sold him a 440 block several years ago to use in the car which he total had rebuilt and drove it for about 2000 miles. I went to look at the car to find a perfect date block for my M Code car. It was a 69 HP block with an assy date of 4-18-69 and this M Codes build date was 4-27-69. Since the original motor was long gone I figured this was going to be the best fit for the car so i scooped the complete car up.
From the Glory days. It was also pictured in Mopar Collectors guide in Nov 2008 from an old photo and labeled as Wild Thing.
The seats look white in the picture?
Yes it is a factory White interior. Once this car got parked it all went down hill from there. The white buckets and rear seat got removed over the years along with the console. The rest of the interior is all there with white upper door paint and white door panels, white headliner and arm rest. The black dash pad is perfect and never got robbed.
As nice as this car was in its glory days its amazing to see how a car put in a barn for 36 years and forgotten can look. The body is really solid but items got robbed off of it over the years.
I made a good score the other day as a local guy was selling his 68 New Yorker. I had sold him a 440 block several years ago to use in the car which he total had rebuilt and drove it for about 2000 miles. I went to look at the car to find a perfect date block for my M Code car. It was a 69 HP block with an assy date of 4-18-69 and this M Codes build date was 4-27-69. Since the original motor was long gone I figured this was going to be the best fit for the car so i scooped the complete car up.
Anyone need a rolling New Yorker Body ?
Your quest has only just begun , good luck. I got two Dart driveshafts if needed. Too long for my Barracuda.
From the Glory days. It was also pictured in Mopar Collectors guide in Nov 2008 from an old photo and labeled as Wild Thing.
The seats look white in the picture?
Yes it is a factory White interior. Once this car got parked it all went down hill from there. The white buckets and rear seat got removed over the years along with the console. The rest of the interior is all there with white upper door paint and white door panels, white headliner and arm rest. The black dash pad is perfect and never got robbed.
As nice as this car was in its glory days its amazing to see how a car put in a barn for 36 years and forgotten can look. The body is really solid but items got robbed off of it over the years.
I made a good score the other day as a local guy was selling his 68 New Yorker. I had sold him a 440 block several years ago to use in the car which he total had rebuilt and drove it for about 2000 miles. I went to look at the car to find a perfect date block for my M Code car. It was a 69 HP block with an assy date of 4-18-69 and this M Codes build date was 4-27-69. Since the original motor was long gone I figured this was going to be the best fit for the car so i scooped the complete car up.
Anyone need a rolling New Yorker Body ?
This is why I asked, This is super cool. Look at the date on the photo.
From the Glory days. It was also pictured in Mopar Collectors guide in Nov 2008 from an old photo and labeled as Wild Thing.
The seats look white in the picture?
Yes it is a factory White interior. Once this car got parked it all went down hill from there. The white buckets and rear seat got removed over the years along with the console. The rest of the interior is all there with white upper door paint and white door panels, white headliner and arm rest. The black dash pad is perfect and never got robbed.
As nice as this car was in its glory days its amazing to see how a car put in a barn for 36 years and forgotten can look. The body is really solid but items got robbed off of it over the years.
I made a good score the other day as a local guy was selling his 68 New Yorker. I had sold him a 440 block several years ago to use in the car which he total had rebuilt and drove it for about 2000 miles. I went to look at the car to find a perfect date block for my M Code car. It was a 69 HP block with an assy date of 4-18-69 and this M Codes build date was 4-27-69. Since the original motor was long gone I figured this was going to be the best fit for the car so i scooped the complete car up.
Anyone need a rolling New Yorker Body ?
This is why I asked, This is super cool. Look at the date on the photo.
Where did you get the photo with the date? The one he gave me did not have a date of course it was a copy of the original. Yes he put the Hemi in the car shortly after he bought it new. Oh I also got the Hemi Intake and Webber Carbs with the deal when I bought the car from Al.
From the Glory days. It was also pictured in Mopar Collectors guide in Nov 2008 from an old photo and labeled as Wild Thing.
The seats look white in the picture?
Yes it is a factory White interior. Once this car got parked it all went down hill from there. The white buckets and rear seat got removed over the years along with the console. The rest of the interior is all there with white upper door paint and white door panels, white headliner and arm rest. The black dash pad is perfect and never got robbed.
As nice as this car was in its glory days its amazing to see how a car put in a barn for 36 years and forgotten can look. The body is really solid but items got robbed off of it over the years.
I made a good score the other day as a local guy was selling his 68 New Yorker. I had sold him a 440 block several years ago to use in the car which he total had rebuilt and drove it for about 2000 miles. I went to look at the car to find a perfect date block for my M Code car. It was a 69 HP block with an assy date of 4-18-69 and this M Codes build date was 4-27-69. Since the original motor was long gone I figured this was going to be the best fit for the car so i scooped the complete car up.
Anyone need a rolling New Yorker Body ?
This is why I asked, This is super cool. Look at the date on the photo.
Al is an interesting guy, hope he still has the Hemi carbs he brought out to the Belivdere show last year, I am ready to buy them!
I put a deposit down on the carbs last weekend! Not much new in the M-Code world, saw a nice M-Code GTS at the Bartlett show this weekend, white with Green interior!
Got a question, this is going to be on the original engines. When installing the 440 in our cars, did the factory use the vapor canister over the fuel pump like used in the GTX and RT 440-Hemi? If used, then there would be two lines running to the tank, 3/8 & 1/4. Mine only has one 3/8, is this correct? I guess I'm asking, where those canisters omitted on these cars with just the line between carb and pump?
Got a question, this is going to be on the original engines. When installing the 440 in our cars, did the factory use the vapor canister over the fuel pump like used in the GTX and RT 440-Hemi? If used, then there would be two lines running to the tank, 3/8 & 1/4. Mine only has one 3/8, is this correct? I guess I'm asking, where those canisters omitted on these cars with just the line between carb and pump?
Got a question, this is going to be on the original engines. When installing the 440 in our cars, did the factory use the vapor canister over the fuel pump like used in the GTX and RT 440-Hemi? If used, then there would be two lines running to the tank, 3/8 & 1/4. Mine only has one 3/8, is this correct? I guess I'm asking, where those canisters omitted on these cars with just the line between carb and pump?
No canisters, one single 3/8" line.
Thanks, what I thought too. had a small controversy on another post about this. Wanted to make sure.
Was the line 3/8" all the way from the gas tank to the carb? If so, what about the gas tank sending unit? I was under the impression all the A-body 1969 sending units were 5/16" outlets no matter the engine size. If so, how were the two mated up?
What fuel pump did the M-code Darts get from the factory? Anybody have a picture of a original and a part number to share. And did they have a fuel line fuel filter like the 383 cars? Thanks.
I'm almost sure mine had a 3/8 pipe out of the tank. The pump is the standard one piece pump with 3/8 inlet. 5/16 line to carb. I'll have to look on my build sheet and spec papers then let you know. Sorry no pics.
Rhino had a brain fart... I meant to say 5/16" line but I typed 3/8", old age and senility sucks. I will be looking at a couple of factory M-Code Darts and one Barracuda next week, I will make sure both sides of my brain concur once again...
Rhino had a brain fart... I meant to say 5/16" line but I typed 3/8", old age and senility sucks. I will be looking at a couple of factory M-Code Darts and one Barracuda next week, I will make sure both sides of my brain concur once again...
Rhino. Post back next week on what you find out. Maybe a few pics would even be nice too. I understand your old age completely lol.
Rhino had a brain fart... I meant to say 5/16" line but I typed 3/8", old age and senility sucks. I will be looking at a couple of factory M-Code Darts and one Barracuda next week, I will make sure both sides of my brain concur once again...
Rhino had a brain fart... I meant to say 5/16" line but I typed 3/8", old age and senility sucks. I will be looking at a couple of factory M-Code Darts and one Barracuda next week, I will make sure both sides of my brain concur once again...
It is really quite simple, the parts book states that there is only one part number for ALL 1969 Mopars, the only thing that the parts department could order is a 25' roll of 5/16" line.
Need to get this post back up front. Now, anything going on? How's the builds coming along? Question for the Cuda cars, driveshafts, if sure it's original, is it tapered on both ends? I know the Darts are, I have two. I need one if someone has a lead on one, all the same whether 340 383 or 440. Mike
Hey Mike, how's your build coming? I haven't seen anything going on with any M-codes????? Maybe blewbyu has some up dates on his 2 Darts???
Well I Have been buying lots of NOS parts that I can find and restoring lots of components to be reinstalled. The car has come from the first picture to the second picture posted. The car was a non undercoat car so underneath is the factory primer finish and of course the outer surface re sprayed in original factory R4 red.
The second one may be up and running in as is condition in a few months. I'm going to drive it with all its battle scares, Rust, Primer, Dents and faded chrome. This car is the 3rd picture and 4th picture.
I am very fortunate to not only own one M Code but to have 2 M Code cars the same color, I consider myself a lucky man. My first car in High School was a R4 69 340 Swinger so this body and color has a special place in my memory. You always remember your first car and man were those the days.
Hey Mike, how's your build coming? I haven't seen anything going on with any M-codes????? Maybe blewbyu has some up dates on his 2 Darts???
Well I Have been buying lots of NOS parts that I can find and restoring lots of components to be reinstalled. The car has come from the first picture to the second picture posted. The car was a non undercoat car so underneath is the factory primer finish and of course the outer surface re sprayed in original factory R4 red.
The second one may be up and running in as is condition in a few months. I'm going to drive it with all its battle scares, Rust, Primer, Dents and faded chrome. This car is the 3rd picture and 4th picture.
I am very fortunate to not only own one M Code but to have 2 M Code cars the same color, I consider myself a lucky man. My first car in High School was a R4 69 340 Swinger so this body and color has a special place in my memory. You always remember your first car and man were those the days.
Hey Mike, how's your build coming? I haven't seen anything going on with any M-codes????? Maybe blewbyu has some up dates on his 2 Darts???
Well I Have been buying lots of NOS parts that I can find and restoring lots of components to be reinstalled. The car has come from the first picture to the second picture posted. The car was a non undercoat car so underneath is the factory primer finish and of course the outer surface re sprayed in original factory R4 red.
The second one may be up and running in as is condition in a few months. I'm going to drive it with all its battle scares, Rust, Primer, Dents and faded chrome. This car is the 3rd picture and 4th picture.
I am very fortunate to not only own one M Code but to have 2 M Code cars the same color, I consider myself a lucky man. My first car in High School was a R4 69 340 Swinger so this body and color has a special place in my memory. You always remember your first car and man were those the days.
You'll fit rite in with the rat rod crowd LOL
Oh no I won't as i not a rat rod fan, and don't really think the Dart fits that category. I just want something I can beat on like I did back when I had my first car when they were just cars and not collectibles. My first Dart was a beautiful shade of Red with black and grey primer. Here's an old picture with the wheels screaming and the smoke rolling.
You should primer the new one just like the old one! What is that on your front fender?
Funny you should say that as I am going to to the same thing to that passenger side where old Al clip a pole with it. rather then replace the 1/4.
Oh yea I had found a 68 GTS 383 car in the local salvage yard back then and put the GTS emblems on the front fender. Thought I was cooler with them on the front fenders. LMAO
That emblem reminds me of the time at the track with my buddy's 68 383 GTS. The emblems where still on the fender but was running a 440 so he found some 440 emblems to put under the 383 ones. Then we put a Hemi in it for awhile and 426 Hemi emblems went on the six-pac hood scoop. Anyway while we waiting around in the staging lanes these two boys, maybe 10-12, came by and was looking at the emblems and car. Then the one boy turned to the other and said "383-440-426 Hemi, he don't know what motor he wants". Took us ten minutes to get our breath back and the tears dried up.
It came with my car out of New Hampshire and was 8 digits off my VIN. When I sold the car the new owner didn't want it. I will check the VIN and post it.
BTT.........this ones in A-bodies here for sale......
1969 Plymouth Barracuda $86,000.00 obo or trade + cash
69 M code all matching numbers everything it had been sitting since 1972 before I started restoring it 4 years ago. Less than 25,000 original miles but everything has been rebuilt or restored. It starts and runs great the only guage that isn't working is the tach and it is out being rebuilt and should return within the next 2 weeks. It retains all the original m code specific parts that came with the car. As far as I'm aware its the only R6 R6 m code with a complete red interior according to the registry. Koffels place in Huron Ohio did all of the machine work to the engine. Scott Smith took care of the carburetor, Dixie Restoration completely redid the alternator and the Accurate exhaust fit like a glove....the list goes on and on for the new and NOS parts that have been added to complete this restoration. The tires are new from 1970 and still had the stickers on them when installed. Even has a matching rim and red stripe for the spare. Also included is a correct aftermarket yellow top battery that hasn't ever had any acid put into it.
Without rambling on about everything else that has been done to the car you can take a look at the before after and during pictures of the restoration. Don't hesitate to ask any questions about the build. As far as trades go I would rather keep it to 68-72 mopar in any condition the more unique cars will be at the front of the line. Some before pics can be viewed at http://www.2040-cars.com/Plymouth/Barracuda/1969-plymouth-barracuda-440-m-code-cuda-539931/ and before during and after pictures can be viewed at https://www.facebook.com/mcodecuda/ Thanks for looking 567-224-0923 for more info.
I'd like to get an M Code notch. I have some interesting trades.
Cheers
I'd probably sell mine.....no trades
We Lost a member yesterday big-block-dave RIP We lost a great person yesterday, so young too. I got the phone call that no one wants to get. Dave's wife called me last night telling that Dave (big-bloc-dave) passed away unexpectedly today. He was a great friend of mine. Sorry I am at a loss of words. Great family man, Loved Mopars - especially 1969 Barracuda Notchbacks. He ran the 440 M code 'Cuda registry. He will be greatly missed. RIP Dave Goodwin big-block-dave.
Very sad, sold him an NOS 69 header panel at Carlisle this year, been dealing with him for years. I had no indication that anything was wrong, RIP me friend...
I'd like to get an M Code notch. I have some interesting trades.
Cheers
I'd probably sell mine.....no trades
We Lost a member yesterday big-block-dave RIP We lost a great person yesterday, so young too. I got the phone call that no one wants to get. Dave's wife called me last night telling that Dave (big-bloc-dave) passed away unexpectedly today. He was a great friend of mine. Sorry I am at a loss of words. Great family man, Loved Mopars - especially 1969 Barracuda Notchbacks. He ran the 440 M code 'Cuda registry. He will be greatly missed. RIP Dave Goodwin big-block-dave.
When the obituary goes out I will attach it.
Dave I am sorry to hear this. I just spoke to him recently. God Speed
I will help Dave's family as much as I can with his stuff. Hopefully I can get all the M code stuff and find somebody as knowledgeable as Dave to take it over.
I will help Dave's family as much as I can with his stuff. Hopefully I can get all the M code stuff and find somebody as knowledgeable as Dave to take it over.
It will take a special person to take over the 69 Cuda Registry. Dave was committed to carrying the torch that had been started hope someone will step up and be as will as Dave was. He was too young, he will be greatly missed.
I agree, trying to find someone as knowledgeable as Dave will be tough. I know quite a bit about Darts but I am still learning about Barracudas and Dave was helping me out by comparing notes between the two. I currently have these in my possession, a 1969 M-Code Cuda coupe in pieces that was starting to be restored, and a 1967 Formula S 383 4-speed survivor. I had a 69 M-Code Fastback but it was restored before I got it and I didn't have it long enough to check out all the differences.
Update So I went to Dave's house and we went through some of Dave's stuff with his wife. She has a few decision to make now, not easy think to do. I did find the M Code Registry stuff. We talked about that also. Most likely I will end up with it unless I can find someone else that I think would do a great job. I will keep everyone updated.
Any 1969 M-Code Cuda and Dart owners in (northern) Ohio or Ohio adjacent States? I know of three M-Code Darts in my area within a 5-mile area mine being one of them. Thought that was odd and then I've seen several M-Code Cuda's at Norwalk, Ohio Monster Mopar show with Ohio plates. Also saw a B5 blue M-Code Dart with Ohio plates I think is/was from Youngstown, Ohio area? Back in the spring of 1969 I went to order a '69 Dart GTS 383 and then found an article in a car mag that talked about the M-Code 440 Dart and tried to find a Dodge dealership that could order that instead.....no one knew anything about the 440 Dart. Long story short I ended up ordering a new '69 Road Runner. The Dart 383 or the M-Code 440 were going to be ordered in green with a black interior.......fast forward and guess what I eventually stumbled across by luck for an M-Code Dart......#8 on the GTS registry. It found me 30 years later by chance, yep it's green with a black interior.
The cuda I restored has went from Ohio to New Jersey to Massachusetts and now back to Northern Ohio. Well its actually in florida for the winter but it will be back in Ohio this spring. Who shall I put the new owner in contact with to get him listed on the registry?
Without going back through 40+ pages (on my screen) is there an illustration with dimensions to fabricate a driver's side engine mount for an M-Code 440 Dart/Cuda? Also is there a source to buy a complete new driver's side engine mount for the same application? Thanks in Advance.
Dan, the Fury Six Barrel owner had one for sale late last year, but he wanted like $1200 for it! The last one I bought was $200. Easy to make one, take a 383 A-Body mount, a 1x2 angle iron, spread the original mount out, and weld on the angle iron, you just need dimensions which I can provide...
Without going back through 40+ pages (on my screen) is there an illustration with dimensions to fabricate a driver's side engine mount for an M-Code 440 Dart/Cuda? Also is there a source to buy a complete new driver's side engine mount for the same application? Thanks in Advance.
Mike
Mike, I have have a driver side M code brackets Dave
True or False? Just read an article in Muscle Car Review on a '69 M-Code Dart that was originally sold through Mr. Norm's Grand Spaulding Dodge. In the article they show a black tail stripe on the R6 red Dart and the caption reads and I quote...always wanted to say that "All GTS models featured a black bumblebee stripe, denoted on the fender tag by the code V8X: V8 for the stripe and X for the black color. True or False M-Code Dart stripes were only BLACK??
(Side note: they covered up the last three digits of the VIN tag image and then explained what the LS23M9B232nnn decoded to and then said "(last three numbers omitted for privacy)". Then they posted the entire photo Fender Tag above the VIN photo with the complete last six number of the VIN as it is in the lower right of the fender tag, duh OOPS. Too late now.)
BLACK M-Code Dart tail stripe only: True or False?????
no restrictions on rear stripe for a "M-code" Dart GTS, they were red, white, black & DELETE
What color was the DELETE..........................................................oh yeah body color so that would mean it was also available in every available body color too
no restrictions on rear stripe for a "M-code" Dart GTS, they were red, white, black & DELETE
True!
Now is that true that it's FALSE or true that it's true that it's false
Any one have a '69 Dart M-code broadcast sheet or original fender tag to prove that it's true or false or whatever? My M-code Dart is sporting the body color DELETE tail stripe with the GTS fender callouts in red ............but thinking about putting a tail stripe on just because that's what I intended to do back in '69............before being laughed out of my local Dodge dealership when I asked about the M-code Dart,
This thread was started about M code Barracuda. Some of you may know that the gentlemen that was running the Cuda Registry was Dave Goodwin AKA BB Dave. He passed away back in Oct and I had some memorial stickers made in memory of Dave. If you happen to own a Cuda I have a few stickers left I could send you for the 1/4 window of your Cuda if you knew Dave.
Dave was primarily a Notch back guy owning 3 M Code Cuda notch backs, so I thought this was a fitting saying to memorialize him.
This thread was started about M code Barracuda. Some of you may know that the gentlemen that was running the Cuda Registry was Dave Goodwin AKA BB Dave. He passed away back in Oct and I had some memorial stickers made in memory of Dave. If you happen to own a Cuda I have a few stickers left I could send you for the 1/4 window of your Cuda if you knew Dave.
Dave was primarily a Notch back guy owning 3 M Code Cuda notch backs, so I thought this was a fitting saying to memorialize him.
I see this one has the black grilles, I thought only Formula S had those and Cuda's had the argent grilles? Is that one of Dave's cars?
Yes it was one of Dave cars. I got it before his passed. The grills should be black. But over the years I found not all the black grills were molded in black some gray ones were painted black at the factory.
I am handling the 1969 Barracuda M Code Registry for now. I have all the info now formally Dave Goodwin and Tom Wenstadt Any car or info let me know Thanks Dave
a good friend of mine had one, thought he could out run the cops with it.... but it cost him dearly,,,, the car was way more than he could handle!!!!!!
I am handling the 1969 Barracuda M Code Registry for now. I have all the info now formally Dave Goodwin and Tom Wenstadt Any car or info let me know Thanks Dave
Dave do you have a website and a link or did I miss that?
I am handling the 1969 Barracuda M Code Registry for now. I have all the info now formally Dave Goodwin and Tom Wenstadt Any car or info let me know Thanks Dave
Dave do you have a website and a link or did I miss that?
Jim I pulled the M-Code Dart out of storage and hoping to do a few things over the winter to get it (maybe ) on the track sometime next year. Lots of undoing the inner fender well header cut outs (have original sheet metal for both sides) and the transmission and console floor tunnel for when it was converted to a 4-speed. Has the original 3.91 rear and have two of most everything to chose from. Still thinking it looks more like F5 than F8 but no big deal it's still going to stay GREEN.....with a black interior (original). Undecided about the black vinyl but will probably stay and even though it's a "stripe delete" I always wanted a black tail stripe so that may go on............and still leave the front fender GTS callouts.
Here's what I have for a K-frame, what do you think? Does it look like an M-Code (big block) original K-frame........................and then there's that F5/F8 green paint
My car is F5 body color with F8 upper and lower door frames. This photo shows original factory paint F8 lower door frame at right. In the center of the photo, F5 and F8 are next to each other, showing that the factory first painted the whole car and door F5 then masked around the door frames, then painted the door frames F8.
My car is F5 body color with F8 upper and lower door frames. ........
the other way around - Upper Door Frame (visible area inside of door weatherstrip) in F8 lacquer, allow to dry, tape that area off & paint entire car in F5 enamel
When the "50 Fastest Muscle Car" list was done years ago how did they pick the cars that made it on that list and where did the M-Code Cuda and Dart end up....................did they even make the list, don't remember. I know the A12 RR was third at the time and IMO really a true 5/6 passenger muscle car with more than just two seats like aluminum skinned and fiberglass body sports cars in position 1 & 2 The 5 passenger Dart and Cuda M-Codes should have been on there. Thought it was from back in the day magazine tests? Just trying to bump this up again
M-Code Dart GTS was number 10, that's all I care about...
Was the criteria for making the list "back in the day" magazine road test articles??
If so then from the "50 Fastest" list I've seen and the June 1969 Drag Racing Magazine test the Dart GTS 440 M-Code should be listed as the SECOND fastest and FIRST QUICKEST real 4/5 passenger MUSCLE CAR of that era !
Here's another one from that article and has anyone ever heard this about the K-frame being "relocated" in the M-Code Dart and I guess Cuda? The way I read it is the K-frame was not modified but relocated in the engine compartment. Does that mean bolted in a slightly different position to the chassis? I also think there is little or no room to move the K-frame left or right but only forward or rearward where it is bolted but that would upset the entire driveline even if it was an inch or less, but would that matter? Don't think this is a true statement but.......................what's that "never say never" thing...........
is that a washer under the air cleaner wing nut.......
Here's another one from that article and has anyone ever heard this about the K-frame being "relocated" in the M-Code Dart and I guess Cuda? The way I read it is the K-frame was not modified but relocated in the engine compartment. Does that mean bolted in a slightly different position to the chassis? I also think there is little or no room to move the K-frame left or right but only forward or rearward where it is bolted but that would upset the entire driveline even if it was an inch or less, but would that matter? Don't think this is a true statement but.......................what's that "never say never" thing...........
is that a washer under the air cleaner wing nut.......
This is first time I have ever heard of a "k-frame relocation", who is the author of this article? I have helped restore a few factory 440 Darts both 68 and 69 and the factory 383 k-frame had no changes that I could tell...
Dodge funny car driver Charlie Allen who states in the article that he also shoehorned a 440 into his own '68 Dodge Dart. Maybe he had to relocate the K-frame to do his 440 install and just assumed that's what Chrysler had to do?
What I would give for one of his funny car body's! Reed Koeppe had a 67 Dart funny car body about 10 years ago and I was too late to buy it. No idea if it was one of Charlie Allen's cars, but at that point I didn't care, I just wanted it! Who knows what he did to his, maybe he tried to set it back for better weight transfer?
What I would give for one of his funny car body's! Reed Koeppe had a 67 Dart funny car body about 10 years ago and I was too late to buy it. No idea if it was one of Charlie Allen's cars, but at that point I didn't care, I just wanted it! Who knows what he did to his, maybe he tried to set it back for better weight transfer?
The former Charlie Allen Challenger funnycar body was on Ebay maybe 2 or 3 years ago.
Here's another one from that article and has anyone ever heard this about the K-frame being "relocated" in the M-Code Dart and I guess Cuda? The way I read it is the K-frame was not modified but relocated in the engine compartment. Does that mean bolted in a slightly different position to the chassis? I also think there is little or no room to move the K-frame left or right but only forward or rearward where it is bolted but that would upset the entire driveline even if it was an inch or less, but would that matter? Don't think this is a true statement but.......................what's that "never say never" thing...........
is that a washer under the air cleaner wing nut.......
Meaning the mounts were moved or made to accommodate the 383-440 engine big block. Never saw any difference on the car I had or the extra 69 383k-frame I still have. I’ll check the sb frame I to see if the pass side mount is the same, maybe both were moved.
Owned a 69Dart GTS 383 4 speed car. Hated the light green color... They dropped the ball IMO on making a rally dash for Darts , at least GTS cars. Like the look of Cuda rally and wish M codes were a stick car. Would like to build a 69 Dart GTS clone. 440 -4 speed, rally gauges from a 70 swinger. maybe a couple other mods.
Here's another one from that article and has anyone ever heard this about the K-frame being "relocated" in the M-Code Dart and I guess Cuda? The way I read it is the K-frame was not modified but relocated in the engine compartment. Does that mean bolted in a slightly different position to the chassis? I also think there is little or no room to move the K-frame left or right but only forward or rearward where it is bolted but that would upset the entire driveline even if it was an inch or less, but would that matter? Don't think this is a true statement but.......................what's that "never say never" thing...........
is that a washer under the air cleaner wing nut.......
Meaning the mounts were moved or made to accommodate the 383-440 engine big block. Never saw any difference on the car I had or the extra 69 383k-frame I still have. I’ll check the sb frame I to see if the pass side mount is the same, maybe both were moved.
Here's another one from that article and has anyone ever heard this about the K-frame being "relocated" in the M-Code Dart and I guess Cuda? The way I read it is the K-frame was not modified but relocated in the engine compartment. Does that mean bolted in a slightly different position to the chassis? I also think there is little or no room to move the K-frame left or right but only forward or rearward where it is bolted but that would upset the entire driveline even if it was an inch or less, but would that matter? Don't think this is a true statement but.......................what's that "never say never" thing...........
is that a washer under the air cleaner wing nut.......
Meaning the mounts were moved or made to accommodate the 383-440 engine big block. Never saw any difference on the car I had or the extra 69 383k-frame I still have. I’ll check the sb frame I to see if the pass side mount is the same, maybe both were moved.
they used a 100% orig 383 K frame.. no mods..
Yes the K-Frames (AFAIK) are the same but the article states "the K-Frame was relocated" not that the K-Frame was modified. As I said I don't think this ever happened just curious if anyone else ever heard of this?
Here's another one from that article and has anyone ever heard this about the K-frame being "relocated" in the M-Code Dart and I guess Cuda? The way I read it is the K-frame was not modified but relocated in the engine compartment. Does that mean bolted in a slightly different position to the chassis? I also think there is little or no room to move the K-frame left or right but only forward or rearward where it is bolted but that would upset the entire driveline even if it was an inch or less, but would that matter? Don't think this is a true statement but.......................what's that "never say never" thing...........
is that a washer under the air cleaner wing nut.......
Meaning the mounts were moved or made to accommodate the 383-440 engine big block. Never saw any difference on the car I had or the extra 69 383k-frame I still have. I’ll check the sb frame I to see if the pass side mount is the same, maybe both were moved.
they used a 100% orig 383 K frame.. no mods..
Yes the K-Frames (AFAIK) are the same but the article states "the K-Frame was relocated" not that the K-Frame was modified. As I said I don't think this ever happened just curious if anyone else ever heard of this?
Simple as this, no it was not relocated, they are and always were the same 383-440...
Just to keep this thread going (and having a little fun with Jim
Jim do you know if the K-Frame was relocated when they put the big blocks in? ...................I think I know the answer but I just was curious why the statement in the '69 test article....and where the heck did that "relocation" remark come from
To the unknowing there were a couple of mods that had to be made to shove the 383 and 440 big blocks into the A-Body versus the /6 and small blocks right?
Like the radiator outlet and the oil filter interference, driver's side engine mount and driver's side exhaust manifold......
Just to keep this thread going (and having a little fun with Jim
Jim do you know if the K-Frame was relocated when they put the big blocks in? ...................I think I know the answer but I just was curious why the statement in the '69 test article....and where the heck did that "relocation" remark come from
To the unknowing there were a couple of mods that had to be made to shove the 383 and 440 big blocks into the A-Body versus the /6 and small blocks right?
Like the radiator outlet and the oil filter interference, driver's side engine mount and driver's side exhaust manifold......
Mike
And grinding off the second motor mount boss when power steering was made available, and the proportioning valve heat shield, special plug wires, dipstick, and power steering hose and 90 degree adapter. never mind the 893 oil pan and maybe a few other compromises and parts bin scavenging for the 4-speed cars...
I’d like to see one of those 4-speed AC m-code cars. Every one of those parts mentioned is where the bucks are, car is cheap, ask me how I know.
Needs to be a notch back with a luggage rack......with the 4 wheel disc brake set up...you know the set modified from the Imperial. .............
But seriously .....when I was looking for a 67-69 A body Cuda, I found what was supposed to be an All Original M-code Cuda , had a mod top , seller claimed it still had it's original Dana with 4.88s with the rear disk option... AC 4 speed car , and the guy had the balls to point out on the option plate the "luggage rack option"
......What a Crap show that car was.....the 4 speed was a B/E body long tail trans with a butchered aftermarket Fiberglass 4spd hump..........AC compressor looked like on of those Early 70s Ford single cylinder style not the Vtwin looking Mopar( I know none of the M-code cars came with AC or 4speed) I took my uncle with me ,because he has one, black on black fast back , it's had a 2nd Gen hemi in it since 74....he took one look at the vin plate and told the guy it had to be one with the Time machine option as he pointed out the Torx socket style screws holding the VIn plate and you could see the raised indent where they flattened out the actual engine code letter and re-stamped it with a M.
I do have a serious Question , I know all the M-code A bodies were all Autos ...but was there a Dana Option for them ? or is it only the 68 SS/AA A-bodies that got a Dana ? I asked my uncle and he says" I've got no clue and don't care"
I was told that there wasn't a Dana narrow enough to go under the rear of a '69 A-Body and the 4-speed 440 (B-Bodies also) required the Dana rear.
Yes, that is why they used a B=Body rear on the 68 Hemi A-Body's. The guy who started the GTS registry had a 69 383 4-speed GTS convertible that had A/C. He bought it new and had the dealer order every part out of the parts book for a 340 Dart and B-Body engine components and had it all installed at the dealership, everything worked perfectly, there was no reason they couldn't have offered it as an option. The only reason that anyone can figure out was they were worried about overheating...
Simple as this, no it was not relocated, they are and always were the same 383-440...
Jim, how many different K-frames were there for the '69 A-Bodies..............and how many different (displacement) engines? Sorry for being too lazy to research this
Edit: found these are they correct? Which K-frames were shared?
4 k-frames, slant six. 273/318, 340, and 383/440. Though the small block k-frames are pretty much identical, some had the sway bar holes some didn't, meaning if the car came with rally front suspension it would have the holes...
Maybe the 73-up style k-frame, Direct Connection did modify one of those to fit the big block also, and Jim Lusk modifies them also, I believe the drivers side needs moved 3/4"...
Thanks Jim. Now is there a K-frame in say a B-body that is the same for the big block and small block engines? Yes on b-body A-body One K-frame that would accept the 273, 318, 340, 383, and 440 ?
/6, 273-318-340, 383-440 3 k-frames, I have them all, power ‘nothing’ was available with the 440 and no Dana, 8-3/4 only 3.55 standard ratio, same radiator used for 383-440. Nothing special or extra except 440 and 073 trans (HP GTX type), driver side mount and driver side exhaust manifold. Same 383 exhaust pipes but added a 1” spaced on passenger side between pipe and manifold. 383 Kick down linkage was used. 383 bodies were used (mine still had the 383 fender tag) ac car rear torque plates were added.
I am handling the 1969 Barracuda M Code Registry for now. I have all the info now formally Dave Goodwin and Tom Wenstadt Any car or info let me know Thanks Dave
Dave do you have a website and a link or did I miss that?
My M-Code Dart GTS was listed on the Dart GTS registry (#8) as F8 green. I think that is F5 green and today I moved it out of storage and into the sunlight and I swear it looks like F5 green. Back in early spring of 1969 I was going to order a 383 Dart GTS in F5 green, went to my hometown Dodge dealer to pick up a brochure. I was also curious about a sidebar report I read in a 383 GTS test about Dodge may be putting a 440 in the GTS. I asked about it and got laughed out of the dealership by two sales guys saying that would never happen. Went home and my mom could see I was upset about something and when I told her about looking at a Dart she said that being second oldest of 7 kids why am I looking at a COMPACT car and I should get a bigger car. So down to the Plymouth dealer with my co-signing dad (I was 18) and ordered a '69 Road Runner HT, 383, Torqueflite, 3.91 in F5 green. So when I went full circle with finally getting this Dart GTS M-code that I originally wanted I thought for sure it was F5. Today when I finally got it out in bright sunlight and comparing it to a local friend's F8 Dart GTS M-Code I'm pretty sure my GTS is F5 like my original F5 Road Runner. What do you think are these two Dart's the same color? The Dart at the local cruise is for sure F8 as it has all of the documentation including a broadcast sheet and fender tag with F8 green on it. BTW my Dart is the one with the stripe delete, gas cap delete, side reflectors delete and the almost vinyl top deleted by age and a two-tone hood.
Just a question about fender well headers for an M-Code Cuda or Dart. If you have one that someone had cut the fender wells and you wanted to try a set of headers which headers would work with a completely stock engine with maybe a carburetor change or not? I think I'll repair the inner fenders as I have the pieces/parts to do that but just curious what was or is best used for fender well headers on a Cuda/Dart M-Code?
Hmmmmmm, it seems this kind of performance should have put the '69 M-Code Dart 440 at second (NOT 20th) on the list of Fifty Fastest (actually quickest) Muscle Cars as reported in back in the day magazine test data. Quicker than the M-Code A12 Road Runner 3rd on the list and quicker than the TWO-SEAT SPORTSCAR Vette they shamelessly along with the TWO-SEAT SPORTSCAR Cobra put at the top of the list. There I vented, but I know the real reason for the 12.70/112, just making
Stripe delete big block Dart GTS thought it might be a 440 because he did own one (white?) but I think it's a 383 what say you J-RR ?
I traded that car to JohnRR for a 69 M-Code Dart GTS. This one is a 383 4-speed belonged to a longtime friend of mine before he died and I acquired it. One I should have kept...
Here I am cutting a better light and the 409 dual quad Impala I'm paired against finally figured out why he wasn't running his normal low 13's blows by me when I cut a better light this time around . JohnRR better light but gets smoked.
These were the only times I ran at Stanton , hope to get back out there for 2024.
Quarter damaged why it was parked in the late 70's
Is that the original engine ?
Yes. The valve covers on it are later just to keep the rodents out. The distributor, carb, air cleaner, and radiator were all taken when the car was in a farmers field in the late 70's...
My sources say around 36 were built, but maybe Dave has more to say on that. 
What it is worth depends on alot of things, like the exhaust manifolds (they are worth $3500/pair) 
original engine/trans, 893 oil pan, 065 radiator and a few other special parts. Need more info and PICS! 
Dave has the number known.
the VIN and fendertag and drive a fresh body under them ...
and I leave 
I was so mad and 
showed them...and even came to a complete stop in front of the Dodge dealership with the rr one day and lit em up with the 3.91 Suregrip 
Multi-carb cars will ALWAYS demand more money and aura. 
and as I wrote it is NOT. NEVER WAS THERE A LOH Dart or Cuda with multi-carbs! Five years from now someone will bring this "fact" up and that they even saw a photo of one 
After 30,000+ miles, I took it off the road and brought it with me when I moved back. 
My 3-29-69 383 GTS has only 8 digits, and so does my Feb built M-Code GTS. I just bought an original Mr. Norms 440 block from a GSS and it has 8 digits on the bellhousing rail. I took pictures today that I will post to show what a real 68 block looks like! 
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Well I know it's ebay (shill, etc) but was there a reserve on it and was it that low of a reserve 
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or PM me please. Thanks
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I have always wondered about the other two cars, you would think there would be SOME documentation on them!?! 
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LOL The grandson was not in at the time but thier leasing agent was working there in 69 when my car was sold but was out of the office. I have there names and need to call the leasing agent and see if he remembers the car, they could not have sold that many M Codes I would not think and maybe he will remember the car.
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I still want to buy a set of Hemi Super Stock cards he had, hopefully he will be at the Belivdere show with them again this year. 
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Not much new in the M-Code world, saw a nice M-Code GTS at the Bartlett show this weekend, white with Green interior! 
I meant to say 5/16" line but I typed 3/8", old age and senility sucks. 
I will be looking at a couple of factory M-Code Darts and one Barracuda next week, I will make sure both sides of my brain concur once again... 
What is that on your front fender? 
Nobody has been chosen to carry it on yet... 
OOPS. Too late now.)
Jim
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