Moparts

How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ?

Posted By: NAS Backyard

How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ? - 12/03/11 06:20 PM

I have a .040 over stock (pistons) 440 with a mild cam, 727 /Gear Vendors/3:23 that I regularly pound on. My trans doesn't like to shift until around 6000 RPM's at WOT and I think it's a little late. I've adjusted the kick down and it shifts great under regular driving conditions, but wants to whined a little too tight for my comfort zone. The engine is balanced and was built be a reputable builder. Should I be worried?

Attached picture 6948732-cars003.jpg
Posted By: elmor

Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ? - 12/03/11 06:32 PM

I had a similar set up for my 67 440. .040 over, stock bottom end, MP 280 - .474 cam, with 3.91 rear. Used to twist it to 6300 rpms on a regular basis. Still runs great, but I wouldn't twist it any more than that.
Posted By: Dean_Kuzluzski

Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ? - 12/03/11 07:26 PM

That's kind of a vague question.

The rpm range is dictated by the cam/intake/carb/heads/exhaust, the mass of the reciprocating lower end.... and so on.......

Reliability???? What max rpm with the heavy slugs a factory 440 used???? That's the real question. Probably not much over 6k.

You didn't mention the cam other than "mild". The package as a whole is probably overrunning the cams design. It's probably doing a "nose-over" deal where it's shifting past its peak.
Posted By: RoadRunnerJD

Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ? - 12/03/11 07:45 PM

Sounds like it's just right. If you shift it manually will it shift at a lower RPM if you want to shift sooner? 6000 is Nothing to worry about.
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ? - 12/03/11 08:04 PM

Quote:

The engine is balanced and was built be a reputable builder. Should I be worried?

No & & if the preferred shift point is lower than 6K I'd change the governor weights to ch that then adj the kickdown seperately to where you want it to be & not use it to move the WOT shift points
Posted By: terzmo

Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ? - 12/03/11 08:11 PM

6000 to 6300 for a non stroked motor....I used to shift around 5500 as it wasn't doing much after that to justify waiting for the next shift...shift at different times and see which one gets You there quickest..I over rev'd a stroker motor and snapped the cam in half and disintegrated the #7 piston...thus destroying the #7 cylinder...
Posted By: CrAzYMoPaRGuY

Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ? - 12/03/11 08:17 PM

Depends on the TACH too.

I drove the same 440 powered car for 9 years, raced it regularly for 9 years, knew it like the back of my hand.
Shifted consistently exactly the same thousands of times. I never look at my tach while racing, and since my buddies were getting annoyed I bought an Autometer Sport Comp recall tach.
It would consistently pull 6400 rpm on the tach every time. Once every 50 runs or so.... it would read 7100 rpm. Then it would go back to 6400 rpms again and again.
It was weird.
We tossed the engine in my buddy's car years later. It had a Sun Super Tach II, which must be a much more powerful tach. He wound the engine over 8000 rpm!!!!!!!



I always wondered how his previous engine, which seemed mundane, was pulling 6500+ rpm!

I had a tic-toc-tac that would allow me to CRUISE at 5500 rpm with a similar engine, no idea what was wrong with that one!!!!

I almost wonder if some tachs are set for 6 bangers, the rpm I have seen.


Good stout 440s I have had were just over 6000rpm when I shifted, if the tachs were fairly accurate.
Posted By: gtx6970

Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ? - 12/03/11 08:24 PM

REALLY depends on the quality of the build

pistons, rods, bearings, torque conv, flexplate,driveshaft, etc etc etc

IMO with cast pistons and stock rods on a regular basis??? I wouldn't !!!
Posted By: lewtot184

Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ? - 12/03/11 08:44 PM

Quote:

Quote:

The engine is balanced and was built be a reputable builder. Should I be worried?

No & & if the preferred shift point is lower than 6K I'd change the governor weights to ch that then adj the kickdown seperately to where you want it to be & not use it to move the WOT shift points

probably good advice
Posted By: HYPER8oSoNic

Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ? - 12/03/11 09:05 PM

Quote:

That's kind of a vague question.

The rpm range is dictated by the cam/intake/carb/heads/exhaust, the mass of the reciprocating lower end.... and so on.......

Reliability???? What max rpm with the heavy slugs a factory 440 used???? That's the real question. Probably not much over 6k.

You didn't mention the cam other than "mild". The package as a whole is probably overrunning the cams design. It's probably doing a "nose-over" deal where it's shifting past its peak.



Depending if it's a bone stock rebuild with a "warmer" cam thrown in, you have to take in account the balancing also (might free up a few hundred more USEABLE rpm up top). If the heads
have not been "touched", 6000rpm is the norm (Magnum based motor), anymore rpm is bonus!! But it comes at a price, a motor is only as good as the builder, so beware. Parts meant for strong performance in the low and midrange portions of the tach do not produce power in the far RIGHT side of the dial! And the
REVERSE is also true (midrange - top end cams produce little to zero low end power).

Posted By: RobX4406

Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ? - 12/03/11 09:21 PM

Run it up, note tach level when it blows up, back off 100-200 RPM...

How much it will wind and where it covers ground best are quite different.

If the cam isn't crazy I bet it would like something less than 5500.
Posted By: dOc !

Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ? - 12/03/11 09:30 PM

Quote:



with a "warmer" cam thrown in,







WARMER ? ... so what oven-temp is that ?

And THIS from a who is something-funny and on his car all-the-time ...
Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ? - 12/03/11 09:54 PM

6000 won't hurt an is about the limit of RPM with stock valve springs and lifters. I really don't know why you want to twit it that far. You are running way out of the peak power band.
Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ? - 12/03/11 10:20 PM

Quote:

You are running way out of the peak power band.



Thats somewhat of an unknown--all he says is "Mild Cam", Maybe his mild isn;t what someone else would say is mild.
Posted By: fox

Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ? - 12/03/11 10:28 PM

Quote:

Quote:



with a "warmer" cam thrown in,







WARMER ? ... so what oven-temp is that ?

And THIS from a who is something-funny and on his car all-the-time ...



For street use I ussually prefer 280 to 290 degrees advertised!!!
Is that warm enough??!!LOL!
Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ? - 12/03/11 10:57 PM

Quote:

Quote:

You are running way out of the peak power band.



Thats somewhat of an unknown--all he says is "Mild Cam", Maybe his mild isn;t what someone else would say is mild.

Most so called 'mild' cams are done well before 6000. Even a lot of the not so mild cams have their power band peak below 6000.
Personally I prefer keeping the RPM as low as possible using a cam that produces in the 5500 to 6000 range. There is no question that you can run and run well with that type of cam and the engine will live a long and useful life.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ? - 12/03/11 11:07 PM

Quote:

I have a .040 over stock (pistons) 440 with a mild cam, 727 /Gear Vendors/3:23 that I regularly pound on. My trans doesn't like to shift until around 6000 RPM's at WOT and I think it's a little late. I've adjusted the kick down and it shifts great under regular driving conditions, but wants to whined a little too tight for my comfort zone. The engine is balanced and was built be a reputable builder. Should I be worried?



Adjusting the Throttle valve(kickdown)Linkage doesn't do anything to the WOT shift point .'

Did you change the gov. weights to get that hi A WOT ? Stock they don't shift nearly that high , usually about 4800 or so ...
Posted By: bboogieart

Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ? - 12/03/11 11:18 PM

Quote:

I have a .040 over stock (pistons) 440 with a mild cam, 727 /Gear Vendors/3:23 that I regularly pound on. My trans doesn't like to shift until around 6000 RPM's at WOT and I think it's a little late. I've adjusted the kick down and it shifts great under regular driving conditions, but wants to whined a little too tight for my comfort zone. The engine is balanced and was built be a reputable builder. Should I be worried?



Let up off the gas when you wnat it to shift and it will.
Just a slight amount is all you need.
Posted By: DennisH

Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ? - 12/04/11 01:18 AM

Chasis Dyno showed mine stopped pulling at 4850. Leveled off I guess. Warmed up. 415 RWHP.
Posted By: moparmarks

Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ? - 12/04/11 02:17 AM

Your build is probably peaking at about 5500 tops. Any RPM's over that is a waste.
I don't like taking a stock low end over 6000
The factory race manuals from the 70's that I wish I could find says 6500 max on a big block.
Posted By: az426john

Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ? - 12/04/11 02:31 AM

The old school general rule of thumb was to shift about 10% over peak power anything more and you are twisting the motor for no good reason.

If it were mine I would put it on a good chasis dyno at a reasonable ambiant temprature in a good state of tune with good gas in it and see where generally peak power is. Then shift 10% above that number. Just IMO 2 cents worth.
Posted By: RUNCHARGER

Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ? - 12/04/11 07:28 PM

Sure you can twist it to 6000 but it's not doing any good with those stock heads and mild cam. It will be faster if you shift it at 5000-5500, I would fix the trans governor issue.

Sheldon
Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ? - 12/04/11 09:14 PM

Quote:

Sure you can twist it to 6000 but it's not doing any good with those stock heads and mild cam. It will be faster if you shift it at 5000-5500, I would fix the trans governor issue.

Sheldon

Exactly. Plus the engine will live longer.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ? - 12/04/11 11:17 PM

adjust your kick-down a.k.a. throttle pressure a little more. 6k is fine for a 440 but depending on the build you might be giving up some performance
Posted By: babarracuda

Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ? - 12/05/11 12:07 AM

Watch at the strip. 440's leave Chevys at the start and at the big end the Chevy comes back. This is not better or worse. What I'm saying is that 440's are torquers and Chevys with their giant ports and valves RPM more. You should not need to RPM a 440 to go fast. Rev it as high as your EGO DEMNDS. Once you get it out of your system shift at 5500 to 5800 and be dead on consistant. That will win races at the strip. On the street you are just being a show off if you race and asking to have your car impounded!.
Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ? - 12/05/11 01:04 AM

You should be able to run mid 11's and stay right in the 6000 or just under range.
Not a 440 but I ran best of 11.38 & consistent 11.40's and never broke past 6000 with my 360.
Friend of mine runs a 440 and mid 11's in a B wagon and never cracks 6000.
Posted By: Pale_Roader

Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ? - 12/05/11 11:31 AM


Would the experts in here agree a stock 383 could be revved higher, big cam and (modified factory) heads allowing...???

I've heard 6500 is the limit for a stock 383 bottom end. Sound right? or a bit ambitious?
Posted By: dOc !

Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ? - 12/05/11 11:41 AM

I know guys that have taken a 383 "stocker"(heads and bottom-end) but with a slightly larger cam with headers go-to 7200.

This is my choice on my V-drive boat ... because I need the rpms ... since it only has a 25% over-drive.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ? - 12/05/11 03:53 PM

Quote:

adjust your kick-down a.k.a. throttle pressure a little more. 6k is fine for a 440 but depending on the build you might be giving up some performance



WOT is a governor function not a kickdown linkage function.

Tim, what tac are you going by and have you confirmed it is reading correct?
Posted By: GTX MATT

Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ? - 12/05/11 05:20 PM

I know a guy that bought a 67 GTX brand new. He put in a 320 degree Isky cam (the one Sox and Martin used in their '68 440 GTX) with fenderwall headers and 4.56s. He used to dump the clutch a 7200 and shift at 7200 I'm sure the car would have ETed better if he shifted it around 6000 but the point is he did that for 2 years on a stock short block. I think that's a testament to the strength of a Chrysler big block. I wouldn't recommend it though!
Posted By: DPelletier

Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ? - 12/05/11 06:15 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Sure you can twist it to 6000 but it's not doing any good with those stock heads and mild cam. It will be faster if you shift it at 5000-5500, I would fix the trans governor issue.

Sheldon

Exactly. Plus the engine will live longer.



x3

depending on the cam, it's likely all done at 5500....but even if the cam is a higher rpm unit, the heads are done by then anyways. head flow, small cam, hydraulic lifters....it all adds up to the same thing.

On a related note, HR or one of the other mags did a test awhile ago on all the big block motors; they built them all using edelbrock heads, the same compression and cam specs, carb ets. The 440 came in 3rd IIRC on the hp (the Buick used more radical heads because Eddy didn't make any for it) and 1st in torque.....quite an accomplishment for a 440 cu in motor being compared to the Buick, Olds and Pontiac 455's.....I'm sure more than one Buick guy woofed up his cornflakes over that! .

The 440 is a low end motor with a healthy mid range punch.......it isn't suited to high rpm power production.

Dave
Posted By: HUSTLESTUFF

Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ? - 12/06/11 10:50 AM

I have a stock crank and rods,(shot peened) 260/268@.050 cam I shift at 7000 every time I drive it. Mike
Posted By: Dean_Kuzluzski

Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ? - 12/07/11 12:29 AM

Quote:

I have a stock crank and rods,(shot peened) 260/268@.050 cam I shift at 7000 every time I drive it. Mike



Sounds all well & good IF you have lite-weight slugs???

Stock or factory TRW replacements.........notso good.
Posted By: 82ramIndy493

Re: How many RPM's can you twist a stock 440 ? - 12/07/11 12:43 AM

All I know is that I have turned a balanced STOCK bottom end with STOCK heads with a MP 284/484 cam 6500 on NOS, drove it 80 miles round trip on 4.56 gears to the track for 8 years before putting in a 493 stroker. Motor ran great when pulled and is ready to run still in another car if needed. A lot depends on the builder, the matching of parts and proper maintenance.
© 2024 Moparts Forums