Moparts
Green Bearings
Posted By: Scott Carl
Green Bearings - 10/09/08 10:53 PM
Do I understand correctly that these are not tapered bearings? Who is the source?? I tried to google and could only find info on Oilite
Are GBs more or less expensive than stock bearings? Using local sources, I can put new tapered bearings in, for about $85 + sales tax, including removing old and pressing on new. Do Greens have to be pressed on like stock tapers?
Posted By: 340SHORTY
Re: Green Bearings - 10/09/08 11:39 PM
they are ball bearings, not tapered bearings
a few diff sources
priced about the same
nowhere as good as tapered bearings
they are pressed on...
Posted By: Pacnorthcuda
Re: Green Bearings - 10/09/08 11:42 PM
Quote:
they are ball bearings, not tapered bearings
a few diff sources
priced about the same
nowhere as good as tapered bearings
they are pressed on...
Agreed. For drag racing they are OK, for street driving no, and an autocrosser would destroy them in no time. They don't hold up well to side loading (cornering).
A tapered Timken bearing is a beautiful engineering masterpiece.
Posted By: Scott Carl
Re: Green Bearings - 10/10/08 12:35 AM
Thanks guys. This is what I wanted to know!
Posted By: DoctorDiff
Re: Green Bearings - 10/10/08 01:14 AM
An adjustable, Set 7 bearing is a needlessly complicated design that weakens the differential, limits side gear spline engagement, and is prone to leakage and dirt/water contamination in many applications. In addition, axle flange stand-out is not held constant unless you blueprint the axle lengths.
Although most people won't have problems with the snap-ring style Green bearing (not the crimped on flange, RP-400 design still sold by Mopar Performance), the non-adjustable, 3.15" bore Timken set 20 tapered bearing is the strongest, commonly available wheel bearing. Unfortunatley, special housing ends are required to run this bearing on a Mopar application.
Posted By: John_Kunkel
Re: Green Bearings - 10/10/08 09:00 PM
Quote:
An adjustable, Set 7 bearing is a needlessly complicated design that weakens the differential, limits side gear spline engagement, and is prone to leakage and dirt/water contamination in many applications. In addition, axle flange stand-out is not held constant unless you blueprint the axle lengths.
A statement like that begs a lengthy detailed explanation.
Posted By: DoctorDiff
Re: Green Bearings - 10/10/08 10:53 PM
I offered a detailed explanation several times in the past.
In fact, I just spent 45 minutes typing another detailed reply. When I hit the submit button, the computer locked up and I lost everything I typed.
I'm not in the mood to type it again.
Posted By: Scott Carl
Re: Green Bearings - 10/10/08 10:57 PM
Quote:
I offered a detailed explanation several times in the past.
In fact, I just spent 45 minutes typing another detailed reply. When I hit the submit button, the computer locked up and I lost everything I typed.
I'm not in the mood to type it again.
Thanks Doc and to all. I guess I really just needed the tapered vs ball question answered.
BTW Doc, I know just how ya feel on the puter problems and I work in comp tech support 
Agreed. For drag racing they are OK, for street driving no, and an autocrosser would destroy them in no time. They don't hold up well to side loading (cornering).
I love responses like this. I have been using greens for almost a 100K, and I'm not a drag racer...Changed the first set @ 50K.
Posted By: DAYCLONA
Re: Green Bearings - 10/11/08 12:41 AM
.....I've used the "green" bearings since they've come out.......I haven't had to change out a set Yet!.....in decades!.....and I punish my cars, when I drive them on the street, or track(straight or twisty).......can't tell you how may tapered Timkens I destroyed over the years!
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.....I've used the "green" bearings since they've come out.......I haven't had to change out a set Yet!.....in decades!.....and I punish my cars, when I drive them on the street, or track(straight or twisty).......can't tell you how may tapered Timkens I destroyed over the years!
I have been told you can't run them on the street for years and that is total crap 
Has anyone ever tore apart a 7 1/4 rear end and looked at the bearings,they are small green type bearings with millions of rears on the road in a,b and e body cars that have that rearend in six cylinder cars.I have run them for years in my cars and had zero problems,besides the bearing for a 8 3/4 is much bigger than the 7 1/4.No doubt the tappered bearing is stronger but the green bearings are stronger than most people think 
Posted By: Scott Carl
Re: Green Bearings - 10/11/08 02:16 AM
Quote:
Quote:
.....I've used the "green" bearings since they've come out.......I haven't had to change out a set Yet!.....in decades!.....and I punish my cars, when I drive them on the street, or track(straight or twisty).......can't tell you how may tapered Timkens I destroyed over the years!
I have been told you can't run them on the street for years and that is total crap Has anyone ever tore apart a 7 1/4 rear end and looked at the bearings,they are small green type bearings with millions of rears on the road in a,b and e body cars that have that rearend in six cylinder cars.I have run them for years in my cars and had zero problems,besides the bearing for a 8 3/4 is much bigger than the 7 1/4.No doubt the tappered bearing is stronger but the green bearings are stronger than most people think
Hmmmmmm This brings me back to my other question. I've done some pricing and I can get stock Fedral Moguls(?) pressed on for $85 plus tax and seals. Can I do Greens that cheap?
Posted By: DoctorDiff
Re: Green Bearings - 10/11/08 02:40 AM
I sell green bearings for $60 pair. Price includes gaskets and bearing retainers.
OEM bearings require inner beaded steel gaskets, outer foam gaskets, inner seals and outer seals. Are your bearing retainers in good shape? If the adjuster is bent, you can't turn the threads. New ones are not available.
If you have your own tools and a shop press, you buy the bearings at wholesale price and do the press work yourself. Thats how I handle it normally. I have had a few experiences with machine shop press work that resulted in my needing to replace parts after they just threw it on a 60 ton press without any of the normal support for the item being pressed and wound up with distorted or cracked parts.
Plus, I seem to have a phobia about working on my own cars.
regards
doc
1969 Charger RT (real car not clone)
1970 Dart, fixing to be BB/4 speed hotrod
1972 Dart, daily driver
2000 Jeep TJ (Sahara and yea it goes off road)
2000 Dodge G/Caravan Sport for the occasional car pool deal
2003 Dodge 1500 4x4 and yea it goes off road too
2004 PT Cruiser Turbo 5 speed, My daugher snuck this one in while I was asleep
2008 Jeep JK Sahara, 6 Speed with real off road goodies and a decent stereo, Wife's choice of Mopar Mania (see 2000 Sahara and think about it.
2- ZX cars (1 N/A & 1 Turbo, both 5 speed) that I am thinking seriously about cloning into mini daytonas, just so I can say I have a clone car.
Oh yea, the JK has a lifetime warranty, I am worried about whose life???
Posted By: Scott Carl
Re: Green Bearings - 10/11/08 03:54 AM
Quote:
Agreed. For drag racing they are OK, for street driving no, and an autocrosser would destroy them in no time. They don't hold up well to side loading (cornering).
I love responses like this. I have been using greens for almost a 100K, and I'm not a drag racer...Changed the first set @ 50K.
My concern is that the only reason these need replacing after over 100,000 miles is because they got rusty. I really am not 100% sure its even the bearings making the noise I hear but I figure its the best place to start. It just SOUNDS like bearings 
The car sat in a flood after a hurricane and then sat for ten years. They had a crusty residue that pretty much washed off with solvent but I didn't go to the trouble of doing a thorough job as I figured I would replace them anyway. I just packed as much grease in as I could with them still on the axle and put them back in. I believe if the car hadn't got a soaking, I wouldn't have this issue 
Posted By: 62maxwgn
Re: Green Bearings - 10/11/08 11:31 AM
You know the old saying,"if it ain't broke we'll fix it anyway"! As far as I'm concerned,green bearings are something else we didn't need.Other's opinions may vary.
Good luck.
Posted By: CJK440
Re: Green Bearings - 10/11/08 12:50 PM
Get the greens from DoctorDiff and be done with it. If you have a failure let us know.
Posted By: MoparforLife
Re: Green Bearings - 10/11/08 01:06 PM
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Agreed. For drag racing they are OK, for street driving no, and an autocrosser would destroy them in no time. They don't hold up well to side loading (cornering).
I love responses like this. I have been using greens for almost a 100K, and I'm not a drag racer...Changed the first set @ 50K.
My concern is that the only reason these need replacing after over 100,000 miles is because they got rusty. I really am not 100% sure its even the bearings making the noise I hear but I figure its the best place to start. It just SOUNDS like bearings The car sat in a flood after a hurricane and then sat for ten years. They had a crusty residue that pretty much washed off with solvent but I didn't go to the trouble of doing a thorough job as I figured I would replace them anyway. I just packed as much grease in as I could with them still on the axle and put them back in. I believe if the car hadn't got a soaking, I wouldn't have this issue
If the bearings cleaned up and aren't pitted they will be fine. You never remove the bearings from the axle to clean and pack only remove to replace as there is normally no salvage once removed. Clean and inspect and pack with a needle on a grease gun to make sure to get grease packed in between all the rollers and smear a liberal coat on the bearing face when installing. Remember they get no other lubrication and are not lubricated from the rear end lubricant. The inner seal should keep all rear end lubricant out of the bearing area. In your case it doe sound like they should be replaced.
Posted By: DAYCLONA
Re: Green Bearings - 10/11/08 05:50 PM
Quote:
I sell green bearings for $60 pair. Price includes gaskets and bearing retainers.
That's a good price!......really can't beat that
Posted By: John_Kunkel
Re: Green Bearings - 10/11/08 07:32 PM
Quote:
I offered a detailed explanation several times in the past.
In fact, I just spent 45 minutes typing another detailed reply. When I hit the submit button, the computer locked up and I lost everything I typed.
I'm not in the mood to type it again.
OK, I'll make it easier, you said:
An adjustable, Set 7 bearing is a needlessly complicated design that weakens the differential,
"Needlessly" is a relative judgement but how does it weaken the differential compared to the Green?
limits side gear spline engagement,
In a stock differential?
and is prone to leakage and dirt/water contamination in many applications.
Only if submerged in water or improperly installed. The seals on the Green have limits too.
In addition, axle flange stand-out is not held constant unless you blueprint the axle lengths.
That's the one I don't get. Please explain.
Posted By: CJK440
Re: Green Bearings - 10/11/08 07:57 PM
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In addition, axle flange stand-out is not held constant unless you blueprint the axle lengths.
That's the one I don't get. Please explain.
One side is consistantly positioned by the fixed retainer and the other is subject to multiple tolerance stackups in the housing, shafts, button etc.
Posted By: John_Kunkel
Re: Green Bearings - 10/11/08 08:05 PM
With an adjustment spec of .008"-.018" the difference in standout is gonna cause what problem that is so serious that in needs the Greens to rectify? Sorry, I don't buy it.
With a production run of tens of thousands of housings/axles, there will likely be a lot more inconsistency from that than the bearing choice.
Posted By: DoctorDiff
Re: Green Bearings - 10/11/08 08:58 PM
An adjustable, Set 7 bearing is a needlessly complicated design that weakens the differential:
The bearing is flipped around backward, so the race is captive between it and the axle flange. This means the bearing must float in the housing end and requires an adjuster, thrust block or thrust pin. Of course, an adjuster, thrust block or thrust pin must pass through the center of the differential. A hole drilled in the cross shaft of a 4 pinion carrier creates a stress riser that is prone to breaking. A 2 pinon carrier allows the thrust block to pass around it unobstructed, but the 2 pinion design also limits the differential's strength.
Limits side gear spline engagement:
Axle spline engagement also suffers because the width of the thrust block (which must have room to slide side to side) protrudes into the splined area of the side gears. This limits spline engagement in differentials with a 2 piece cone or clutch-hub/side gear arrangement.
Is prone to leakage and dirt/water contamination in many applications:
Beaded steel and foam gaskets don't keep water from running into the housing end and into the non-sealed wheel bearing. Don't forget to check your A7 wheel bearings if you ever back a boat into the water.
Axle flange stand-out is not held constant unless you blueprint the axle lengths:
Measure the axle flange stand-out on both sides of any stock 8 3/4" rearend. Because of production tolerances, a single adjuster causes the axle flange to stick out farther on 1 side than the other. The length of both axles, and the housing width is critically dependont on each other. Because everyone uses tape measurements to specify axle and housing lengths, making a set of axles with adjustable set 7 wheel bearings for a custom application is very hard. Axle flange standout varies greatly unless the axles are cut long, installed then blue printed to length.
Most of these problems could have been avoided if the "engineer" who designed the system would have flipped the bearings around so the race would seat against a machined step inside the housing end. This would require no adjustment, no thrust buttons and the axle lengths wouldn't be critical.
I thought about making special billet housing ends that would accept non adjustable set 7 tapered wheel bearings. Then I realized the design wouldn't sell because there is really nothing wrong with snap-ring style Green bearings.
Green bearings make my life easier. I sell at least 500 a year, and my customer's rarely have problems with them. In contrast, almost every time I sell set 7 bearings, the customer has installation questions/problems.
Posted By: MoparforLife
Re: Green Bearings - 10/11/08 10:31 PM
Quote:
In contrast, almost every time I sell set 7 bearings, the customer has installation questions/problems.
Probably because said customer makes a simple job a whole lot more complicated than it is. It isn't aero space science to pack and adjust a set of tapered bearings and rarely OEM were a problem. In fact I venture that the vast majority of 8 3/4 at a JY have never had a bearing failure and that they are still usable with no problems. It isn't as if you have to periodically readjust. Once properly greased &set up leave along for many thousand trouble free miles.
It is bound to be easier for you to install a set of greens on an axle and tell the customer to plug and play, no adjustment needed.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Green Bearings - 10/11/08 10:45 PM
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In contrast, almost every time I sell set 7 bearings, the customer has installation questions/problems.
Probably because said customer makes a simple job a whole lot more complicated than it is. It isn't aero space science to pack and adjust a set of tapered bearings and rarely OEM were a problem. In fact I venture that the vast majority of 8 3/4 at a JY have never had a bearing failure and that they are still usable with no problems. It isn't as if you have to periodically readjust. Once properly greased &set up leave along for many thousand trouble free miles.
It is bound to be easier for you to install a set of greens on an axle and tell the customer to plug and play, no adjustment needed.
Posted By: DoctorDiff
Re: Green Bearings - 10/11/08 11:28 PM
Exactly.
Some of those "said customers" are the same people who used to post on Moparts about how easy tapered bearings install and adjust.
I wish everyone had the opportunity to spec and install a new pair of axles for use with an early power-lock, adjustable Set 7 bearings and a custom width housing.
Posted By: John_Kunkel
Re: Green Bearings - 10/11/08 11:44 PM
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An adjustable, Set 7 bearing is a needlessly complicated design that weakens the differential:
Sorry, Cass, I think you're exaggerating this for the sake of argument.
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Limits side gear spline engagement:
I don't agree that this 1/8" is a big deal.
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Is prone to leakage and dirt/water contamination in many applications
So why not an epidemic of failures in the 25+ year history of this design? Anything that is misused is subject to failure.
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Axle flange standout varies greatly unless the axles are cut long, installed then blue printed to length.
Greatly? How much we talkin' here? .030" total? Seems the factory had no problems in mass production.
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Most of these problems could have been avoided if the "engineer" who designed the system would have flipped the bearings around so the race would seat against a machined step inside the housing end. This would require no adjustment, no thrust buttons and the axle lengths wouldn't be critical.
I doubt that production tolerances would allow that design because, without adjusters, the bearing retainer would either preload the bearing or let it run loose.
Quote:
there is really nothing wrong with snap-ring style Green bearings.
That's the point of conjecture, look in any ball bearing catalog and they'll state the maximum allowable side load for a given ball bearing. Bearings without a loading slot are limited to the number of balls and are therefore more load-limited than a bearing with a loading slot. Loading slots would be inappropriate for a side loaded bearing like the Green.
The tapered bearing is superior in handling the thrust loads they're subjected to in turns.
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Green bearings make my life easier.
IMHO, that's the absolute worst reason to replace the factory bearing with them.
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I sell at least 500 a year, and my customer's rarely have problems with them.
You sell them because you recommend them to your customers. Don't always assume that because you don't hear of a problem it doesn't occur.
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In contrast, almost every time I sell set 7 bearings, the customer has installation questions/problems.
Come on, Cass, don't blame the bearing for people's inability to properly install/adjust them. I have never had a problem installing or adjusting a factory bearing.
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Come on, Cass, don't blame the bearing for people's inability to properly install/adjust them. I have never had a problem installing or adjusting a factory bearing.
Not siding with anyone but there are actually a lot of people on this board and others that attempt to do things they have no business doing. I used to fix many problems at the dealer that the consumer fudged up. If I had less problems selling a product that is easier for the consumer to understand and install, I'd do it.
Posted By: dave571
Re: Green Bearings - 10/12/08 12:50 AM
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Sorry, Cass, I think you're exaggerating this for the sake of argument.
I think this statement can be applied to a lot points on both sides of this debate.
This debate is always heated, and is always pointless.
It boils down to this....
The tapered bearings are stonger in corners. I don't think there is an argument there. OK fine.
The green design has been used in thousands of street mopars, and MILLIONS of brand X cars, so it's perfectly fine too.
Use whatever kind you like and be happy.
I like greens for thier simplicity and use them alot. BUT I won't replace perfectly good stock ones just for the sake of having new stuff. 
Posted By: DoctorDiff
Re: Green Bearings - 10/12/08 12:58 AM
1. "I don't agree that this 1/8" is a big deal"
I have a 5 gallon bucket half full of stripped out power-lock side gears with partial spline engagement that suggests otherwise.
2. "So why not an epidemic of failures in the 25+ year history of this design. Anything that is misused is subject to failure"
Although my dad is on his 4th set of A-7 bearings in his 66 Ford pickup, comared to his original set of sealed ball bearings in his '65 Ford pickup, I never said there was an epidemic of failure. Both pickups were used in the summer to load a boat into the water. BTW, I'm still waiting to hear about the epidemic failures of the thousands of snap ring Green bearings I sold.
3. "Greatly? How much we talkin' here? .030" total? Seems the factory had no problems in mass production"
Did you even read my explanation about tape measurements and custom housing/axle lengths?
4. "I doubt that production tolerances would allow that design because, without adjusters, the bearing retainer would either preload the bearing or let it run loose"
Are you aware that MILLIONS of Ford 9" rears built in the '70s and early '80s run non adjustable tapered roller bearings (Set 20) that bottom out on a machined step in the housing?
5. "That's the point of conjecture, look in any ball bearing catalog and they'll state the maximum allowable side load for a given ball bearing. Bearings without a loading slot are limited to the number of balls and are therefore more load-limited than a bearing with a loading slot. Loading slots would be inappropriate for a side loaded bearing like the Green. The tapered bearing is superior in handling the thrust loads they're subjected to in turns"
Of course the tapered bearing itsself is stronger. Did I ever say it wasn't? Just because X is stronger than Y, that doesn't make Y junk. Application is everyting.
6. "Green bearings make my life easier. IMHO, that's the absolute worst reason to replace the factory bearing with them"
Why are you arguing with this fact? I would never get anything done if I had to constantly diagnose set 7 wheel bearing installation problems over the phone. When I sell a pair of axles with Green bearings, I don't hear back from the customer until he is ready to order a pair for another car.
How do you suggest I make set 7 equipped axles the exact correct length, when all I have to go by is the customer's tape measurement in a non stock application? In addition, most people don't want to pay me more to put used adjusters on new axles and to blueprint the axle lengths even if I do have the housing in front of me.
7. "Come on, Cass, don't blame the bearing for people's inability to properly install/adjust them. I have never had a problem installing or adjusting a factory bearing"
Neither have I, but that doesn't negate the fact that MOST customers DO have problems. Just for the record, I offer Timken set 7 wheel bearings as an option on every pair of custom axles I do for stock housing widths over the phone. Moser, Strange, Dutchman, and Mark Williams don't.
Posted By: Mopar1
Re: Green Bearings - 10/13/08 02:06 AM
Green bearings here. Three summers and two vacations in a heavy '68 Sport Fury and no problems. Quiet as a kitten.
greens 8 yrs and 100 miles a day
I would not change a good stock bearing just to have new greens
done lots of R&R of the axles with gear changes,plug and play,never have a prob with them
Posted By: 446acuda
Re: Green Bearings - 10/13/08 03:54 PM
No comment on tapered vs. Green but it's not a bad idea to go with Ford 3.15" sealed bearings/ends when building a Dana or 8-3/4 from scratch. Strong, simple and you can use junkyard Explorer disc brakes.
Posted By: Scott Carl
Re: Green Bearings - 10/13/08 06:54 PM
At the risk of beating a dead horse on this issue, a question has come to mind. As I understand the Grenn bearings, their main advantage, besides the need for adjustment is eliminated, is that they are sealed. Correct? Is it simply not possible to do with a tapered bearing? Not suggesting that they are better or ball is worse, Just asking the question. Is there a sealed tapered bearing on the market?
Posted By: John_Kunkel
Re: Green Bearings - 10/13/08 06:57 PM
DoctorDiff wrote:
Quote:
I have a 5 gallon bucket half full of stripped out power-lock side gears with partial spline engagement that suggests otherwise.
A previous regular (Dennis) on this forum claimed to have a bucket full of failed Greens. Go figure.
What percentage of Greens are used on stock factory axles compared to aftermarket? The factory axle usually has 1/8" of chamfer at the end, if the Greens position the axle in the same relative position, the spline engagement is the same so what's gained?
The only time your argument holds water is if longer-than- stock aftermarket axles are used. How often are aftermarket axles spec'd longer than stock compare to stock?
Once again the "uneducated" argument can be used to argue one versus the other.
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Did you even read my explanation about tape measurements and custom housing/axle lengths?
Sarcasm noted. You're making an argument based on the use of aftermarket axles while seeming to advocate the use of Greens as being accceptable across the board.
Again I'll ask, do you have verifiable statistics on the percentage of Greens used on stock versus aftermarket? If so, I'm all ears.
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Of course the tapered bearing itsself is stronger. Did I ever say it wasn't? Just because X is stronger than Y, that doesn't make Y junk. Application is everyting.
Never said they were junk (I occasionally use them myself), you're arguing that "there is nothing wrong with the Green Bearing" which, as you state, depends on application. IOW the Green isn't an across-the-board suitable replacement.
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Why are you arguing with this fact? I would never get anything done if I had to constantly diagnose set 7 wheel bearing installation problems over the phone.
Once again you're basing your argument on something other than the bearing itself. I used to be in the TF transmission business and spent a lot of time on the phone diagnosing problems caused by installer errors; should I have just told them to get a TurboHydro?
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How do you suggest I make set 7 equipped axles the exact correct length, when all I have to go by is the customer's tape measurement in a non stock application?
Ever tried math? And, again you're basing your argument on the use of aftermarket pieces. If someone just wants to replace worn out bearings in a stock rear end would you recommend the Greens simply because they're easier?
Many contributors to this forum have flatly stated that they replaced their factory bearings with Greens simply because they didn't want to be bothered with the adjuster. That's a sad testament to laziness.
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In addition, most people don't want to pay me more to put used adjusters on new axles and to blueprint the axle lengths even if I do have the housing in front of me.
Ever consider that the reason nobody is making the effort to repop the factory adjusters is because everybody is recommending the Greens?
Posted By: 71autoxr
Re: Green Bearings - 10/13/08 10:09 PM
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Agreed. For drag racing they are OK, for street driving no, and an autocrosser would destroy them in no time. They don't hold up well to side loading (cornering).
I love responses like this. I have been using greens for almost a 100K, and I'm not a drag racer...Changed the first set @ 50K.
I second the motion. I replaced to greens at least a decade ago. So far I have years of autocrossing, two track days as well as tens of thousands of miles of spirited driving - no failure yet.
Posted By: G_T
Re: Green Bearings - 10/13/08 10:16 PM
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No comment on tapered vs. Green but it's not a bad idea to go with Ford 3.15" sealed bearings/ends when building a Dana or 8-3/4 from scratch. Strong, simple and you can use junkyard Explorer disc brakes.
Exactly! I'll have a new Dana 60 built and will put on the Big Ford ends (sometimes called the big torino ends). Be done with it.
Posted By: DoctorDiff
Re: Green Bearings - 10/14/08 05:33 AM
My orignal post was a response to this quote:
"A tapered Timken bearing is a beautiful engineering masterpiece."
I don't agree an adjustable Set 7 bearing is an "engineering masterpiece". I think it is a mediocre design, which is needlessly complicated and it causes several problems which I listed.
I am explaining if the "engineer" would have flipped the set 7 bearings around like the set 20 tapered units available in Ford rearends, several problems would have been avoided.
Whenever I sell an axle package, I always ask the customer if he wants the axles stock length, or if he wants to remove the thrust block so I can make the axles 1/8" longer to acheive maximum spline engagement for his vintage, narrow side gears. If I didn't think this was important, I wouldn't mention it.
I really do have a bucket half full of stripped out side gears with partial spline engagement. If Dennis has a bucket full of broken Green wheel berings, I bet they are the troublesome RP-400 first generation units with the crimped on flange still sold through Mopar Performance. The bind created causes the bearing to wear out quickly or the retainer breaks off when installed in a housing that isn't perfectly straight. I have never endorsed that bearing, and I only recommend tapered bearings for trucks. "Application is everything".
You didn't recommend installing TurboHydros if someone has problems with TF transmissions just like I don't recommend installing Ford 9" rearends if someone has a problem adjusting their Mopar wheel bearings.
You imply I never machine a new axle to work with adjustable wheel bearings. I have probably done more than most other drivetrain guys. In fact, I did a set today.
It is not a matter of "trying math", it is a matter of getting an accurate measurement on a customer's custom housing, which is not in front of me. How do I even know if it is narrowed evenly on both sides? Tolerances don't have to be off very far to create minimal spline engagement on 1 side.
In addition,(once again) "most people don't want to pay me more to put used adjusters on new axles and to blueprint the axle lengths."
I would guess the reason new adjusters are not available, is because most people don't have problems with snap ring style green bearings.
Posted By: fbernard
Re: Green Bearings - 10/14/08 11:22 AM
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I second the motion. I replaced to greens at least a decade ago. So far I have years of autocrossing, two track days as well as tens of thousands of miles of spirited driving - no failure yet.
A friend's car I installed a Wilwood disc brake kit on (which required snap-ring green bearings) is currently on its 4th set of bearings in under 2 years. The previous set (the 3rd) survived road use and drag racing easily. But rally and spirited driving killed it in ONE DAY.
My car did the same with tapered bearings (no rear discs), and they're still fine. They're at least 15 years old.
Posted By: doctor_mopar
Re: Green Bearings - 10/14/08 11:32 AM
I'm in agreement with the Doc all the way. I have seen many ruined tapered bearings ( going back 40 years), most due to so called professional ( however generic make ) mechanics improperly adjusting, or installing all components with the tapred bearings. By the way, I just had a call yesterday from a local alignment and repair shop needing an E body axle for a customer, because they ruined one improperly installing a tapered bearing axle. Stupid , but real life ! I have also had experience with the different versions of the Green bearings, and agree that the snap ring version the Doc recommends work well. I have found them very usefull in custom situations, and where other coponents are missing or not available as needed with the tapered bearing. i have also run the Greens for many thousans of trouble free miles on the street ! Under ideal conditions the tapered will probably hold more load. Under real world installation and use on our automobiles, the Greens are probably the best choice 9 out of 10 times. I have been successful with installation of both many times, but I
will take the Greens most the time !
Posted By: B G Racing
Re: Green Bearings - 10/14/08 01:26 PM
We have been using Green Bearings since they first came out.Both street and strip.The only problem I have ever encountered is one had the seal fail and leaked.That's one in about a thousand.
Posted By: DoctorDiff
Re: Green Bearings - 10/14/08 02:02 PM
Fabien,
I'm guessing your friend has the Wilwood kit with parking brake shoes in the rotor hat. Did you install the snap ring directly against the housing end? Unfortunately, Wilwood's instructions don't mention you must use the 5 hole retainer that comes with the bearings as a shim to properly space the axles away from the differential internals. Otherwise, constant preloading will destroy the wheel bearings.
Posted By: Scott Carl
Re: Green Bearings - 10/14/08 02:50 PM
Quote:
Quote:
I second the motion. I replaced to greens at least a decade ago. So far I have years of autocrossing, two track days as well as tens of thousands of miles of spirited driving - no failure yet.
A friend's car I installed a Wilwood disc brake kit on (which required snap-ring green bearings) is currently on its 4th set of bearings in under 2 years. The previous set (the 3rd) survived road use and drag racing easily. But rally and spirited driving killed it in ONE DAY.
My car did the same with tapered bearings (no rear discs), and they're still fine. They're at least 15 years old.
First a question and then a comment with more questions Are Green bearings a "brand of bearing or a style that uses a typical sealed ball type bearing? Does Green manufature their own bearings or do they buy them from vendor and assemble the kits? I tried googling Green bearings and only came up with forums like this one or old history (1930s) about the original Green company. Who makes these bearings??? ok several questions...
I ask these questions because I'm really torn here. I have seen testimony both ways. As people are using these ball bearing under condition that are considered by many to be adverse to their design, I have to wonder if there aren't other factors at play. What is making some Greens fail where others last "forever" under what guys are decribing as mild to severe abuse and or "spirited driving", and what would make a tapered bearing fail under conditions that they were made for? Poor fit up?, Is the supplier of the Greens the same each time? Maybe they have a defective batch. I'm hoping to change these bearings once. The stock ones lasted 102,000 in 34 years and failed only because they went swimming for three days and then sat to dry in time I'm a 53 year old kid 
I plan to do some spirited driving myself but I don't want the first thing my grandaughter has to do to is is changer axle bearings. Like I said, I'm still torn.
Posted By: MoparforLife
Re: Green Bearings - 10/14/08 02:59 PM
It isn't aero space mechanical engineering to properly install the tapered bearing but too many let the process intimidate them. In all the years around them OEM there were very few failures of the tapered bearings and in the many 8 3/4 rears in the JY the vast majority (as I have said before) are virgin with many miles left in them. Many do it your selfers also do not realize that the bearings must be packed with a good wheel bearing compatable grease before assembly or they will fail. They do not realize and nobody told them that the bearings are not lubricated from the rear end lubricant. So consequently the bearings are put in dry, a sure fire cause of premature destruction. Failure rate is usually not bearing related but installation related. There are times when using green bearings is a must as when using a spool.
Posted By: John_Kunkel
Re: Green Bearings - 10/14/08 06:59 PM
Quote:
My orignal post was a response to this quote:
"A tapered Timken bearing is a beautiful engineering masterpiece."
I don't agree an adjustable Set 7 bearing is an "engineering masterpiece". I think it is a mediocre design, which is needlessly complicated and it causes several problems which I listed.
The same logic can be used to urge others to scrap their Hemis in favor of the much simpler flathead six. Cheaper, more reliable, ad nauseum.
A ball bearing that has to be manufactured to fit an existing OD and ID will be limited to the size/number of balls that can be installed without a loading slot. This makes for a "mediocre design".
Posted By: fbernard
Re: Green Bearings - 10/14/08 07:11 PM
Quote:
Fabien,
I'm guessing your friend has the Wilwood kit with parking brake shoes in the rotor hat.
Yep, that's the one. Wilwood kit 140-7144 .
Quote:
Did you install the snap ring directly against the housing end? Unfortunately, Wilwood's instructions don't mention you must use the 5 hole retainer that comes with the bearings as a shim to properly space the axles away from the differential internals. Otherwise, constant preloading will destroy the wheel bearings.
Ooops! 
you're right, we never used this retainer (thanks Wilwood). We'll try and see what happens.
Thanks Cass!
Edit :
when we installed the kit, the axles did not touch each other. Where would the preloading come from? is the housing not deep enough for the bearing?
Posted By: DoctorDiff
Re: Green Bearings - 10/14/08 07:17 PM
Are Set 7 adjustable bearings an engineering masterpiece? No. Are Set 7 bearings suited for all applicatoins? No.
Are Green bearings an engineering masterpiece? No. Are Green bearings suited for all applications? No. I would love to see a tapered version of the MO-400 design Green wheel bearing.
Once again, here is what I originally posted in this thread: "Although most people won't have problems with the snap-ring style Green bearing (not the crimped on flange, RP-400 design still sold by Mopar Performance), the non-adjustable, 3.15" bore Timken set 20 tapered bearing is the strongest, commonly available wheel bearing. Unfortunatley, special housing ends are required to run this bearing on a Mopar application."
Posted By: Scott Carl
Re: Green Bearings - 10/14/08 07:20 PM
[quote
Are Green bearings a "brand of bearing or a style that uses a typical sealed ball type bearing? Does Green manufature their own bearings or do they buy them from vendor and assemble the kits? I tried googling Green bearings and only came up with forums like this one or old history (1930s) about the original Green company. Who makes these bearings???
Still curious about this. Is it a secret?
Posted By: Pacnorthcuda
Re: Green Bearings - 10/14/08 07:27 PM
From Mopar Action:
Found by a yahoo search of 'Mopar green axle bearings'.
right or wrong
"Ray, the Greens are low-capacity ball bearings...maybe 1/10 the side-load capacity of the stock Timkens. They are fine for drag racing, pretty lousy on the street, and pretty scary if you're into cornering or towing! (Admittedly, I've never personally seen one catastrophically fail, but I've seen plenty get noisy and sloppy).
The Fords are sealed rollers, way better than balls. The reason why you don't see more of 'em is 'cause they require you to weld on custom axle housing "ends". I have featured these earlier in the mag, as a way to dump the C-clips on 8.25 and 9.25" axles.
I also must add that, except that they require more care during assembly (packing with lube, endplay adjustment, etc.) the stock Timken tapered roller setup is about as good as it gets.
Rick"
OBVIOUSLY many people disagree
Posted By: 446acuda
Re: Green Bearings - 10/14/08 08:54 PM
Quote:
From Mopar Action:
Found by a yahoo search of 'Mopar green axle bearings'.
right or wrong
"The Fords are sealed rollers, way better than balls. Rick"
OBVIOUSLY many people disagree
WRONG! Fords are sealed ball bearings. Here is an OE Ford 3.15" sealed bearing with the shield removed. Obviously a ball bearing.
Posted By: doctor_mopar
Re: Green Bearings - 10/15/08 12:39 AM
Just had a shop manager bring an axle by to match up for a replacement I had. A local machine shop had pressed the tapered bearing on backwards, and the shop had intalled it that way !
Posted By: dOrk !
Re: Green Bearings - 10/15/08 12:51 AM
Will the mean-greenie
ever die ? ... NO way.
But I have been doing this stuff for longer than most here have been alive. And I have never seen a bad set of Timkens .... ever !!! And I have seen some that probably should have been changed ... but I cleaned-em-up and GREASED-em-up(well) and went on my way. The greenies ? ... if you eyeball them the wrong-way -- they
.
Now I am not saying the Timkens do not fail .... but in no way in the same #'s as the balls.
Posted By: Dart 340
Re: Green Bearings - 10/15/08 01:03 AM
Quote:
Just had a shop manager bring an axle by to match up for a replacement I had. A local machine shop had pressed the tapered bearing on backwards, and the shop had intalled it that way !
I think many people do that! They install it like a
front wheel bearing.
Posted By: Dart 340
Re: Green Bearings - 10/15/08 01:05 AM
Quote:
Quote:
From Mopar Action:
Found by a yahoo search of 'Mopar green axle bearings'.
right or wrong
"The Fords are sealed rollers, way better than balls. Rick"
OBVIOUSLY many people disagree
WRONG! Fords are sealed ball bearings. Here is an OE Ford 3.15" sealed bearing with the shield removed. Obviously a ball bearing.
At least that one has a steel ball carrier, the greens I had used a plastic carrier.....
Posted By: MoparforLife
Re: Green Bearings - 10/15/08 01:14 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Just had a shop manager bring an axle by to match up for a replacement I had. A local machine shop had pressed the tapered bearing on backwards, and the shop had intalled it that way !
I think many people do that! They install it like a
front wheel bearing.
Like I said above the biggest failure rate is due to installation error, not bearing quality. It doesn't take any thought to install green bearings.
Posted By: DoctorDiff
Re: Green Bearings - 10/15/08 02:02 AM
Fabien,
If the snap ring seats against the housing end, each axle will insert 1/8" deeper than they are intended. The thrust block inside the carrier will preload and destroy the wheel bearings.
Posted By: DoctorDiff
Re: Green Bearings - 10/15/08 02:05 AM
Green Bearing Company was the original manufacturer. Bearing Technologies bought out Green Bearing Company a few years ago.
As far as I know, Green bearings are not available from any auto parts store.
Posted By: fig426
Re: Green Bearings - 10/15/08 03:15 AM
Man Doctor Diff!!!! You do type ALOT!!!!! Anyway, my 3.91 center came, along with the offset hangers and GREEN BEARINGS that I ordered from you last week. I'm SURE I won't be calling for any installation questions!! I may call for axles if I break my stock ones at the track though!! Thanks again for the great service!!!
Posted By: fbernard
Re: Green Bearings - 10/15/08 05:12 PM
Quote:
Fabien,
If the snap ring seats against the housing end, each axle will insert 1/8" deeper than they are intended. The thrust block inside the carrier will preload and destroy the wheel bearings.
Cass,
I agree it could have been the case with the previous center section (we did install the brakes before changing the diff).
But with the new one we bought from you (3.55 gears/489 housing/1350 yoke/Truetrac diff), we left out the thrust block. Axles should be spaced apart.
Posted By: Fury Fan
Re: Green Bearings - 10/17/08 04:57 PM
This topic is a good example of one of my favorite phrases: 'Just because someone knows how to work on things doesn't mean they know how things work.' There are good points (and bad points) brought up by both sides here.
About a year ago I found a copy of this article, today I was able to find it on the web. I encourage
everyone with an interest in this topic to read this article and learn a little about bearings. It clearly explains the advantage the tapered bearing has over a roller bearing in a wheel bearing application.
The factory application/designs have a Factor Of Safety associated with them, and it's evidently high enough that a lower-capacity roller bearing can be installed in its place without a tremendous amount of failures.
The roller bearing is clearly inferior to the tapered roller from a load-bearing perspective, however there are other factors in a rear axle application that are the reason this topic brings passionate feelings from both sides. We should focus on simple things like engine oil or filters instead.
As for me, I'll stick with my Timken rollers, clean/re-grease them periodically, and worry about my other worries instead...
http://www.schaeffler.com/remotemedien/m...here_roller.pdf
Posted By: Scott Carl
Re: Green Bearings - 10/17/08 05:07 PM
Quote:
This topic is a good example of one of my favorite phrases: 'Just because someone knows how to work on things doesn't mean they know how things work.' There are good points (and bad points) brought up by both sides here.
About a year ago I found a copy of this article, today I was able to find it on the web. I encourage everyone with an interest in this topic to read this article and learn a little about bearings. It clearly explains the advantage the tapered bearing has over a roller bearing in a wheel bearing application.
The factory application/designs have a Factor Of Safety associated with them, and it's evidently high enough that a lower-capacity roller bearing can be installed in its place without a tremendous amount of failures.
The roller bearing is clearly inferior to the tapered roller from a load-bearing perspective, however there are other factors in a rear axle application that are the reason this topic brings passionate feelings from both sides. We should focus on simple things like engine oil or filters instead.
As for me, I'll stick with my Timken rollers, clean/re-grease them periodically, and worry about my other worries instead...
http://www.schaeffler.com/remotemedien/m...here_roller.pdf
Awesome article! Very informative. Thanks, FF
Scott
Posted By: TJP
Re: Green Bearings - 10/18/08 01:13 AM
Timkens here, roller bearings are for roller skates, chevy's and Ford's.
My
Tim
Posted By: MoparforLife
Re: Green Bearings - 10/18/08 11:48 AM
Quote:
Timkens here, roller bearings are for roller skates, chevy's and Ford's.
My
Tim
Roller skates I have seen have ball bearings. Skateboards too.
The OEM 8 3/4 bearing is a tapered roller. Just because it say Timkin doesn't make it a tapered roller. They make all kinds of bearings. And not only Timkin makes bearings for this application that fit and work. 
Posted By: I go fast
Re: Green Bearings - 10/18/08 01:18 PM
But,Timkin introduced the tapered roller,others copied!
Posted By: MoparforLife
Re: Green Bearings - 10/18/08 01:39 PM
Quote:
But,Timkin introduced the tapered roller,others copied!
In 1898 they were patented by Timkin.
My point above is that the posted info is incorrect.
The 8 1/4 rear uses a caged non-tapered roller bearing with the axle itself as the inner race. A lot of the time if a bearing goes south it takes the axle with it
Posted By: go-fish
Re: Green Bearings - 10/18/08 03:33 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Fabien,
I'm guessing your friend has the Wilwood kit with parking brake shoes in the rotor hat.
Yep, that's the one. Wilwood kit 140-7144 .
Quote:
Did you install the snap ring directly against the housing end? Unfortunately, Wilwood's instructions don't mention you must use the 5 hole retainer that comes with the bearings as a shim to properly space the axles away from the differential internals. Otherwise, constant preloading will destroy the wheel bearings.
Ooops! you're right, we never used this retainer (thanks Wilwood). We'll try and see what happens.
Thanks Cass!
Edit :
when we installed the kit, the axles did not touch each other. Where would the preloading come from? is the housing not deep enough for the bearing?
Looks like I have some work to do. I have the same Wilwood kit and never driven it. I have just rolled it from spot to spot. I noticed recently a screeching noise. I bet it is already screwed up because I didn't use this 5 hole spacer.
Dr. Diff, how much are your Green Bearings and do they come with the 5 hole spacer? Can I just buy the 5 hole spacer if the bearings aren't torn up? I have just pushed it to and fro a total of 100 yards in the past year.
Posted By: DoctorDiff
Re: Green Bearings - 10/18/08 03:51 PM
I sell Green bearings for $60 pair. Unfortunatley, the retainers are not available separately.
I could probably get some shims laser cut the next time I need some 1/8" parts made, but I don't know when that will be.
Posted By: go-fish
Re: Green Bearings - 10/18/08 04:11 PM
I'm going to go out now and pull the brakes and take a look. It was a year ago but I went straight off Wilwoods instructions so if it didn't say to do it I didn't do it.
Posted By: go-fish
Re: Green Bearings - 10/18/08 08:32 PM
Doctor Diff,
Alright, I disassembled the brakes and I did not use the five hole 1/8" plate.
I did some digging and luckily found them.
So what you are saying is I need to install those against the axle flange and then re-assemble the Wilwood kit as it was?
This is not my photo but the five hole plate with the flat top is what I've got, just to make sure. I found the Wilwood instructions and it does not mention using this.
Thank God I have not driven with it like this. And thak you Dr. Diff. Wilwood dropped the ball on this.
BTW, this is on an S-60. I didn't find out about Dr. Diff until after I purchased the rear. If only I would have known I would have saved money and headaches I would have given my buisness to Dr. Diff.
I told Strange I was going to use the kit. They sell Baer or something and they told me they didn't recommend Wilwood. I asked them why and they could not tell me so I assumed it was because they were trying to sell me another companies brakes and wuldn't make any money there. I already have the Wilwood fronts that came with my Alter-k-tion.
I am not satisfied with thier customer service.
Also, when I pulled the axle a ton of fluid came out like it was over filled. I am thinking now that thier diff girdle housing oil level plug is located a little high. What is the fluid capacity of a Dana.
It says alot about a guy that helps out when you didn't even give him buisness. Thanks again Doctor.
I just installed a set from Doctordiff today here is a picture of the order I put them on the axle. The plate first, the gasket can be added later to prevent ripping, then the bearing, collar, and the seal goes in the housing.
If you are working with a jack on the ground, jack the side you are working on a little higher than the other side and do one side at a time. The oil will stay in the rear end that way.
Posted By: DoctorDiff
Re: Green Bearings - 10/18/08 10:41 PM
That only applies to OEM 8 3/4" and OEM Dana 60 sure-grips with the thrust block in the center that originally used tapered wheel bearings.
If the splines are long enough, and the axles are not excessively long, you don't have to add the spacer plate.
I would trial fit the axles into the housing. Make sure both wheel bearing snap rings fit snug against the housing end before installing the brakes.
Posted By: go-fish
Re: Green Bearings - 10/19/08 04:17 AM
I think the Strange is the same in respects to this as OEM. But you're saying my rear might not need the five hole plate? Because it isn't a stock 60?
I will put it back together and check it out. If I do have to put the spacer on, where do I put it? Do I put it right on the housing end flange or the outside of the kits bearing retainer plate and run the retainer nuts up against it there?
Sorry but the prospect of smoking the bearings right off the bat has me concerned about this kit. I know it's gotta be annoying.
Here is the "Exploded Assembly Diagram and Parts List" so hopefully that can show folks where 5 hole plate goes exactly. I would like to give Wilwood some feedback on this. It is hard to imagine people have been tearin up bearings with their kit and Wilwood hasn't corrected the instructions.
Posted By: go-fish
Re: Green Bearings - 10/19/08 04:59 AM
I think this is a better scan. Please show where exactly the 5 hole flange that comes with the bearings goes.
Ok, Sorry I’m thinking of getting the same brake setup as you so I want to understand the setup too, better for me to learn now.
Please confirm if you have the 140-7144 brake setup, because here are the instructions in PDF form.
https://www.jegs.com/InstallationInstructions/900/950/950-140-7144-D.pdfAccording to the instructions it states you need to remove the stock floating retainer and install the one that comes in the kit. According to the figure 7 both the backing plate and the bearing retainer is used to retain the bearing. This is stated in the paragraph to the left of figure 7.
Right?
Sorry to the OP this is way OT now. Should of started a new topic.
Anyone for pancakes?
Posted By: 62maxwgn
Re: Green Bearings - 10/19/08 12:46 PM
Only if Sausage is included!
Posted By: go-fish
Re: Green Bearings - 10/19/08 03:49 PM
Quote:
According to the instructions it states you need to remove the stock floating retainer and install the one that comes in the kit. According to the figure 7 both the backing plate and the bearing retainer is used to retain the bearing. This is stated in the paragraph to the left of figure 7.
Right?
Well that is what the instructions say but Fabians friend alledgedly smoked his bearings immediately after installing this kit due to not using the 5 hole retainer. The kit says not to use it but Dr. Diff, who I trust knows full well about rear ends (maybe he should take up proctology ), says Wilwood should advise installers to use the retainer on at least OEM applications.
I just want to know where in the exploded view I need to put them. Couldn't hurt using them even if my C-clips are firmly seated in the housing end, right?
Posted By: quick77rt
Re: Green Bearings - 10/19/08 04:02 PM
I can just see things 40 years from now....people will still be looking for green bearings and alot of our kids will be in the parts store asking where to find dr diff parts.
Posted By: go-fish
Re: Green Bearings - 10/19/08 04:08 PM
And this thread will still be going!
Posted By: DoctorDiff
Re: Green Bearings - 10/19/08 05:29 PM
Wheel bearings originally sat ON TOP of the 1/8" thick drum brake backing plate. If the wheel bearing bolts directly against the housing end, the axles will insert farther inside the differential and preload the thrust block. This will destroy Green wheel bearings in no time.
Instructions for the Wilwood kit with the parking brake in the rotor hat are wrong.
You MUST:
1. Use the loose 5 hole retainer that comes in the MO-400 (snap ring type) Green bearing kit to take up the space originally occupied by the drum brake backing plate. Use this plate between the housing end and the Wilwood backing plate.
OR...
2. Remove the thrust block in the differential.
BTW, all my rear disc brake kits work with stock or Green wheel bearings, and none require this modification.
Posted By: Scott Carl
Re: Green Bearings - 10/19/08 06:08 PM
Quote:
And this thread will still be going!
I got my questions answered, so carry on I'm still readin' anyway
Posted By: Pacnorthcuda
Re: Green Bearings - 10/19/08 06:11 PM
Quote:
Quote:
And this thread will still be going!
I got my questions answered, so carry on I'm still readin' anyway
Tapered Rollers are better....
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
And this thread will still be going!
I got my questions answered, so carry on I'm still readin' anyway
Tapered Rollers are better....
No I really think Bushings are better and the grease of champions is Bacon grease!
Posted By: Pacnorthcuda
Re: Green Bearings - 10/19/08 06:36 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
And this thread will still be going!
I got my questions answered, so carry on I'm still readin' anyway
Tapered Rollers are better....
No I really think Bushings are better and the grease of champions is Bacon grease!
Only if you're using the vastly superior NYLON bushings! I've seen the bacon grease incompatability with brass bushings happen all too often.
Quote:
Wheel bearings originally sat ON TOP of the 1/8" thick drum brake backing plate. If the wheel bearing bolts directly against the housing end, the axles will insert farther inside the differential and preload the thrust block. This will destroy Green wheel bearings in no time.
Instructions for the Wilwood kit with the parking brake in the rotor hat are wrong.
You MUST:
1. Use the loose 5 hole retainer that comes in the MO-400 (snap ring type) Green bearing kit to take up the space originally occupied by the drum brake backing plate. Use this plate between the housing end and the Wilwood backing plate.
OR...
2. Remove the thrust block in the differential.
BTW, all my rear disc brake kits work with stock or Green wheel bearings, and none require this modification.
Of course I did not even see that. That's why you are the Dr.!
In the diagram above it shows the how the Wilwood mounts. The stock backing plate would be between the the bearing retainer and that is gone now...
So in order to get the bearing spaced out like it was you need to have the spacer there! Or like you said remove the thrust block and you are done.
Posted By: DoctorDiff
Re: Green Bearings - 10/19/08 06:56 PM
Yes, place the 5 hole spacer between the wheel bearing snap ring and what Wilwood calls "axle flange tube".
Posted By: Pacnorthcuda
Re: Green Bearings - 10/19/08 07:05 PM
Posted By: go-fish
Re: Green Bearings - 10/20/08 12:26 AM
I guess Strange doesnt put a thrust block in the diff because I measured the axle and from the flange to inside of the splines and the ends of the axle wont be hitting anything in there.
All the measurements show that there will be no pre-load. Is this sounding right?
What does the thrust block look like? It is inside the third member? Forgive me but I don't know the internal parts of a diff very well but there is a shaft or rod thing in between the two axle ends directly in the center. If that is the thrust block the axle ends don't touch it anyway.
I re-assembled everything without the 5 hole retainers since the measurements showed clear and I would hate to do this all over again slightly less than I would want to burn up bearings.
Posted By: DoctorDiff
Re: Green Bearings - 10/20/08 12:31 AM
Thrust blocks are found only inside stock 8 3/4" and passenger car Dana 60 differentials. Some are dime size, some are quarter size. Both styles float back and forth between the 2 side gears.
http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/axle/9.html
What is required to remove this? I assume it is not something you just knock out right?
Posted By: 446acuda
Re: Green Bearings - 10/20/08 01:51 AM
Here is a picture of the spacer removed. You have to split the case on cone type sure grips to get it out. On open differentals you have knock out the roll and push the shaft out far enough to get spacer out through the axle hole.
Posted By: go-fish
Re: Green Bearings - 10/20/08 02:33 AM
I guess, luckiy for me, Strange didn't put one in mine
So I guess you need to re do the back lash after removing the pin?
Posted By: 446acuda
Re: Green Bearings - 10/20/08 04:41 PM
yes, redo backlash/diff bearing preload just as described in the factory manual
Posted By: B G Racing
Re: Green Bearings - 10/20/08 06:15 PM
Caution,when using Willwood setup with internal park brake and after market axles.Threaded studs with bolt or allen socket heads(on the back side of axle flange) may interfere with the park brake assembly.
Posted By: 67Charger
Re: Green Bearings - 10/24/08 04:03 AM
I know that losing the thrust block is an option, but there is another thing to consider. This setup leaves the snap-ring against the axle housing flange, but the entry is chamfered. The snap ring would only touch the flange at the extreme outer edge of the ring. I would want to use the old loose plate back there anyway just to give the snap-ring a solid purchase. Trouble is, if you cut a piece out of the old one to get it off teh axle, it can no longer fully support the snap-ring. You would need a new plate, or a new lock ring for when you R+R the bearings to get the plate off w/o damage.
Just a point to ponder.
Posted By: DoctorDiff
Re: Green Bearings - 10/24/08 04:33 AM
If the (MO-400 or ST-400) Green bearings are already installed, you can unwind the snap-ring to easily remove the loose bearing retainer.
Posted By: 67Charger
Re: Green Bearings - 10/24/08 04:47 AM
OOOOHHHH! He's a thinker that one!
Posted By: 67Charger
Re: Green Bearings - 10/28/08 06:29 AM
So where do the flange gaskets go, and which one where? If there is a steel spacer plate in there, does that need an extra gasket? Do you use any at all? The o-ring and seal SHOULD do it, but... ????
Posted By: DoctorDiff
Re: Green Bearings - 10/28/08 05:22 PM
Inner gaskets are not required.
The outer foam gasket keeps the retainer from bending over the wheel bearing snap ring as the 5 nuts are tightened.
Posted By: The70RT
Re: Green Bearings - 11/02/08 05:49 PM
What is the secret to tightning the timkins? Would you tighten them like a front wheel bearing? I removed mine and I could turn the adjuster with my fingers like it had no means to lock. The bearing still looks good after 80K. I guess they are originals. I ordered new ones before I looked at mine but some are saying they last even longer? I am doing a complete resto so I probably ought to replace them right?
Posted By: 446acuda
Re: Green Bearings - 11/02/08 08:01 PM
Quote:
I removed mine and I could turn the adjuster with my fingers like it had no means to lock.
was the lock tab missing?
Posted By: The70RT
Re: Green Bearings - 11/02/08 11:25 PM
Yeah I got the locking tab. I couuldn't remember removing it a while back....duh.
It just turned easy, i guess it's a good thing.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Green Bearings - 09/14/09 09:50 AM
Hi Dr.diff and all.
A-body 8-3/4 axle, (shafts from you).
Had a Yukon shaft failure with an old style sure-grip!
The clutches slipped on one side and tore the end off the shaft???
I see the engagement into the inner drive gear is only around 3/16's of an inch.
Is this a common fault with the split gear early locker???
I see the new style track-lok I got form you has a one piece side gear.
Will it be ok to re-use the shaft with the new track-lok?
Also heard different opnions on the inner axle seal?
Leave it in or take it out,
to stop overheating of the greens???
Thanks from England, Gtxjon.
