Moparts

Copper used for brake line ????????????.

Posted By: mopar_man

Copper used for brake line ????????????. - 10/18/11 09:22 PM

Sometimes i wonder if the big car makers pay for the salt that is used on our highways up here. Years ago , I'm guessing that at least 75% of the cars that had a rusted out steel line had it replaced with a copper line .
Just wondering how many of you ever used copper and what your opinion is of using it .
Now if you have never used it , no need to flame the people who did.
Just your opinion and why .
Posted By: bumps440

Re: Copper used for brake line ????????????. - 10/18/11 09:30 PM

NEVER USE COPPER FOR BRAKE LINE> CANT TAKE THE PRESSURE AND IT WORK HARDENS AND GETS VERY BRITTLE AND CRACKS>
no I nwever used it for brake line.
Posted By: stumpy

Re: Copper used for brake line ????????????. - 10/18/11 09:52 PM

I have never heard of copper being used as a brake line because it is unsafe.
Posted By: POS Dakota

Re: Copper used for brake line ????????????. - 10/18/11 09:54 PM

Quote:

NEVER USE COPPER FOR BRAKE LINE> CANT TAKE THE PRESSURE AND IT WORK HARDENS AND GETS VERY BRITTLE AND CRACKS>
no I nwever used it for brake line.



Is this true or false?

"High performance manufacturers such as Aston Martin, Porsche, Volvo and Audi have chosen to install copper-nickel alloy over all other materials including stainless steel brake lines."

Taken right from here...

http://store.fedhillusa.com/

I have been told by a few that this stuff is really good.
I was about to try it myself. It's copper/nickel, and supposedly DOT approved for all it's worth.
Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: Copper used for brake line ????????????. - 10/18/11 10:06 PM

Quote:

Quote:

NEVER USE COPPER FOR BRAKE LINE> CANT TAKE THE PRESSURE AND IT WORK HARDENS AND GETS VERY BRITTLE AND CRACKS>
no I nwever used it for brake line.



Is this true or false?

"High performance manufacturers such as Aston Martin, Porsche, Volvo and Audi have chosen to install copper-nickel alloy over all other materials including stainless steel brake lines."

Taken right from here...

http://store.fedhillusa.com/

I have been told by a few that this stuff is really good.
I was about to try it myself. It's copper/nickel, and supposedly DOT approved for all it's worth.



It's NOT copper, and I have never heard of anyone using copper for brake lines, at least live to tell about it. lol
Posted By: jvcuda

Re: Copper used for brake line ????????????. - 10/18/11 10:07 PM

needed to replace a brake line last year,used the copper/nickel as recommended by a friend.That stuff is great,very easy to bend and form into shape as needed,will never go back to steel. Yes,it is D.O.T.

john
Posted By: dOOc

Re: Copper used for brake line ????????????. - 10/18/11 10:10 PM

COPPER ...is uNsane. Many OEM's are using super-hard SS ....
Posted By: dogdays

Re: Copper used for brake line ????????????. - 10/18/11 10:20 PM

The 90/10 copper-nickel alloy is far different from the copper tubing you buy in the hardware store.

I specified 90/10 for heat exchangers because it has excellent corrosion resistance in salty water, it's used in heat exchangers on seagoing ships. And it has been tested for use in brake lines. So just as the addition of bit of carbon makes iron into steel, so the addition of 10% nickel turns copper into something much better.

As for the regular copper tubing used for brake lines, sure, it's better than a rust-perforated steel line. But if you're going to trust your brakes to stop you from high speeds or in the mountains (unlikely in Newfoundland) then it had better be more than straight copper.

R.
Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: Copper used for brake line ????????????. - 10/18/11 10:25 PM

Quote:

The 90/10 copper-nickel alloy is far different from the copper tubing you buy in the hardware store.

I specified 90/10 for heat exchangers because it has excellent corrosion resistance in salty water, it's used in heat exchangers on seagoing ships. And it has been tested for use in brake lines. So just as the addition of bit of carbon makes iron into steel, so the addition of 10% nickel turns copper into something much better.

As for the regular copper tubing used for brake lines, sure, it's better than a rust-perforated steel line. But if you're going to trust your brakes to stop you from high speeds or in the mountains (unlikely in Newfoundland) then it had better be more than straight copper.

R.



They don't even make soft copper in the correct size for brake lines.
Posted By: DPelletier

Re: Copper used for brake line ????????????. - 10/18/11 10:25 PM

Yep, huge difference between a DOT approved copper/nickle ALLOY vs. regular copper tubing........which I have never seen used and would never consider using.



Dave
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Copper used for brake line ????????????. - 10/18/11 10:44 PM

Way back I bought a '66 dart DD & several days later was under it for a more thorough inspection and a PO had used a compression fitting on a line to either fix a leak or join 2 other pieces. Dont remember if the line was copper (iirc it was bronzed color so most likely) so I swapped that out ASAP. I ended up selling it later on & several years later I saw it in a JY (yellow 4 dr), should have asked what caused its' demise
Posted By: POS Dakota

Re: Copper used for brake line ????????????. - 10/18/11 10:46 PM

Quote:

needed to replace a brake line last year,used the copper/nickel as recommended by a friend.That stuff is great,very easy to bend and form into shape as needed,will never go back to steel. Yes,it is D.O.T.

john



Then I'll order it. The burst pressure ratings they show for various sizes looked fine to me. Plus like mentioned in the Opening Post, corrosion is a big issue with steel. This stuff doesnt corrode.

How long have you had it and how does it look so far?
Posted By: mopar_man

Re: Copper used for brake line ????????????. - 10/19/11 12:51 AM

Ok ,now that you have expressed your opinion on how copper tubing is unsafe. I have some information for you .
As I said before copper tubing was used extensively here and sold in all the automotive stores.
Not one accident that i know of has been attributed to a copper brake line bursting in the last 50 years here in Newfoundland.We would be one of the first to know as we are automotive inspectors. You cannot physically put enough pressure on the brake pedal to do that . I tried when questioned about it and ended up buckling up my dad's chrysler steering wheel .I then installed a high pressure gauge up by the master cylinder to see what kind of pressure I can get . 3300 psi was all i could push on the pedal . The 70 chrysler had all copper 3/16 line and never swelled , burst , or popped a flair.
Do I use it now ? No because they have decent steel line with a galv/aluminum coating on them now .
If you don't believe me and if you have an old clunker , install a piece on the old car, get the pressure rating for 3/16 copper and see if you can burst it.
I am certainly not advocating the use of copper brakeline , just sayin lots and lots of it was used here in canada.
Posted By: Supercuda

Re: Copper used for brake line ????????????. - 10/19/11 12:56 AM

Quote:

Ok ,now that you have expressed your opinion on how copper tubing is unsafe. I have some information for you .
As I said before copper tubing was used extensively here and sold in all the automotive stores.
Not one accident that i know of has been attributed to a copper brake line bursting in the last 50 years here in Newfoundland.We would be one of the first to know as we are automotive inspectors. You cannot physically put enough pressure on the brake pedal to do that . I tried when questioned about it and ended up buckling up my dad's chrysler steering wheel .I then installed a high pressure gauge up by the master cylinder to see what kind of pressure I can get . 3300 psi was all i could push on the pedal . The 70 chrysler had all copper 3/16 line and never swelled , burst , or popped a flair.
Do I use it now ? No because they have decent steel line with a galv/aluminum coating on them now .
If you don't believe me and if you have an old clunker , install a piece on the old car, get the pressure rating for 3/16 copper and see if you can burst it.
I am certainly not advocating the use of copper brakeline , just sayin lots and lots of it was used here in canada.




I seriously doubt they are copper brake lines, copper PLATED steel, yes, copper no.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Copper used for brake line ????????????. - 10/19/11 12:59 AM

Quote:

Ok ,now that you have expressed your opinion on how copper tubing is unsafe. I have some information for you .
As I said before copper tubing was used extensively here and sold in all the automotive stores.
Not one accident that i know of has been attributed to a copper brake line bursting in the last 50 years here in Newfoundland.We would be one of the first to know as we are automotive inspectors. You cannot physically put enough pressure on the brake pedal to do that . I tried when questioned about it and ended up buckling up my dad's chrysler steering wheel .I then installed a high pressure gauge up by the master cylinder to see what kind of pressure I can get . 3300 psi was all i could push on the pedal . The 70 chrysler had all copper 3/16 line and never swelled , burst , or popped a flair.
Do I use it now ? No because they have decent steel line with a galv/aluminum coating on them now .
If you don't believe me and if you have an old clunker , install a piece on the old car, get the pressure rating for 3/16 copper and see if you can burst it.
I am certainly not advocating the use of copper brakeline , just sayin lots and lots of it was used here in canada.




Maybe it's in Stores in CANADA , but I have never seen copper line in an autoparts store except for the 1/8" line for oil pressure gauges.

I guess CANADA allows things that would never pass the US DOT so no need to get your undies in a bunch ...
Posted By: mopar_man

Re: Copper used for brake line ????????????. - 10/19/11 01:13 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Ok ,now that you have expressed your opinion on how copper tubing is unsafe. I have some information for you .
As I said before copper tubing was used extensively here and sold in all the automotive stores.
Not one accident that i know of has been attributed to a copper brake line bursting in the last 50 years here in Newfoundland.We would be one of the first to know as we are automotive inspectors. You cannot physically put enough pressure on the brake pedal to do that . I tried when questioned about it and ended up buckling up my dad's chrysler steering wheel .I then installed a high pressure gauge up by the master cylinder to see what kind of pressure I can get . 3300 psi was all i could push on the pedal . The 70 chrysler had all copper 3/16 line and never swelled , burst , or popped a flair.
Do I use it now ? No because they have decent steel line with a galv/aluminum coating on them now .
If you don't believe me and if you have an old clunker , install a piece on the old car, get the pressure rating for 3/16 copper and see if you can burst it.
I am certainly not advocating the use of copper brakeline , just sayin lots and lots of it was used here in canada.




I seriously doubt they are copper brake lines, copper PLATED steel, yes, copper no.



No Not steel, genuine K type copper , soft and pliable.
Posted By: 440newport

Re: Copper used for brake line ????????????. - 10/19/11 01:36 AM

I've seen plenty of copper used for trans and fuel lines but never on brakes.
I believe copper brake lines were pretty common in Europe at one time though.

Many cars use "cunifer" now which is a copper/nickel alloy as some people have mentioned.
Posted By: Skeptic

Re: Copper used for brake line ????????????. - 10/19/11 02:30 AM

I use copper for brake lines all the time.......AIR BRAKES, not juice brakes, and never would.
Posted By: dOOc

Re: Copper used for brake line ????????????. - 10/19/11 02:35 AM

Quote:



........... soft and pliable.



...and so will m_m's HEAD be ....when he crashes into a snow-bank after brake-failure ...way up-in NewFoundLand ...

Posted By: Fat_Mike

Re: Copper used for brake line ????????????. - 10/19/11 02:52 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

No Not steel, genuine K type copper , soft and pliable.



I have no doubt that it looked like copper, but I have to wonder what it's actual properties were. As said above, the 90/10 stuff is very pliable also. If they still have what you think is 100% copper in your auto parts stores, take a good look at the packaging. If they no longer sell it, there's probably a good reason for that.
Posted By: jvcuda

Re: Copper used for brake line ????????????. - 10/19/11 03:50 AM

After a year,no signs of any corrosion at all.Bought it a local autozone.
Here is a link to the factory:
Nickel copper brake line
Posted By: POS Dakota

Re: Copper used for brake line ????????????. - 10/19/11 11:25 AM

Quote:

After a year,no signs of any corrosion at all.Bought it a local autozone.
Here is a link to the factory:
Nickel copper brake line



Thanks! I ordered a couple coils of it.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Copper used for brake line ????????????. - 10/19/11 01:18 PM

Quote:

After a year,no signs of any corrosion at all.Bought it a local autozone.
Here is a link to the factory:
Nickel copper brake line



On what vehicle and does it get driven in the winter ?
Posted By: Commando1

Re: Copper used for brake line ????????????. - 10/19/11 03:12 PM

Quote:


Not one accident that I know of has been attributed to a copper brake line bursting in the last 50 years here in Newfoundland



And you are from the Newfoundland DOT?

As far as I'm concerned:
Posted By: jvcuda

Re: Copper used for brake line ????????????. - 10/19/11 03:49 PM

Quote:


On what vehicle and does it get driven in the winter ?



My '73 Cuda,mostly track time and no winter driving,drag radials and detroit locker is no fun in the rain, let alone snow! If my truck ever needs a line,I will use it.I think it will hold up well here in upstate NY,they salt the roads like crazy.

john

Posted By: mopar_man

Re: Copper used for brake line ????????????. - 10/19/11 05:07 PM

Quote:

Quote:


Not one accident that I know of has been attributed to a copper brake line bursting in the last 50 years here in Newfoundland



And you are from the Newfoundland DOT?

As far as I'm concerned:




No I am not from the NL DOT but my dad and I are motor vehicle inspectors. and worked closely with highway enforcement and i can tell that we would be notified immediately if copper brake lines had become an issue .
I believe at present it is not allowed to be installed on motor vehicles here in Newfoundland because there are better products out there that don't rust.
I also respect your opinion but I don't think the pic you posted was the result of a copper brake line.
Posted By: DPelletier

Re: Copper used for brake line ????????????. - 10/19/11 05:31 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Ok ,now that you have expressed your opinion on how copper tubing is unsafe. I have some information for you .
As I said before copper tubing was used extensively here and sold in all the automotive stores.
Not one accident that i know of has been attributed to a copper brake line bursting in the last 50 years here in Newfoundland.We would be one of the first to know as we are automotive inspectors. You cannot physically put enough pressure on the brake pedal to do that . I tried when questioned about it and ended up buckling up my dad's chrysler steering wheel .I then installed a high pressure gauge up by the master cylinder to see what kind of pressure I can get . 3300 psi was all i could push on the pedal . The 70 chrysler had all copper 3/16 line and never swelled , burst , or popped a flair.
Do I use it now ? No because they have decent steel line with a galv/aluminum coating on them now .
If you don't believe me and if you have an old clunker , install a piece on the old car, get the pressure rating for 3/16 copper and see if you can burst it.
I am certainly not advocating the use of copper brakeline , just sayin lots and lots of it was used here in canada.




I seriously doubt they are copper brake lines, copper PLATED steel, yes, copper no.



No Not steel, genuine K type copper , soft and pliable.



I worked and managed an autoparts store in BC for many years; NEVER saw a copper brake line or even heard of one being used and I sold MILES of brakeline.

Oh and FWIW, it isn't the burst strength that would bother me, it's the work hardening and brittleness.

.....and I'm NOT talking about DOT approved copper alloys, I'm talking about some backyard hack making brakelines out of soft copper tubing.


Dave
Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: Copper used for brake line ????????????. - 10/19/11 05:56 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Ok ,now that you have expressed your opinion on how copper tubing is unsafe. I have some information for you .
As I said before copper tubing was used extensively here and sold in all the automotive stores.
Not one accident that i know of has been attributed to a copper brake line bursting in the last 50 years here in Newfoundland.We would be one of the first to know as we are automotive inspectors. You cannot physically put enough pressure on the brake pedal to do that . I tried when questioned about it and ended up buckling up my dad's chrysler steering wheel .I then installed a high pressure gauge up by the master cylinder to see what kind of pressure I can get . 3300 psi was all i could push on the pedal . The 70 chrysler had all copper 3/16 line and never swelled , burst , or popped a flair.
Do I use it now ? No because they have decent steel line with a galv/aluminum coating on them now .
If you don't believe me and if you have an old clunker , install a piece on the old car, get the pressure rating for 3/16 copper and see if you can burst it.
I am certainly not advocating the use of copper brakeline , just sayin lots and lots of it was used here in canada.




I seriously doubt they are copper brake lines, copper PLATED steel, yes, copper no.



No Not steel, genuine K type copper , soft and pliable.



I worked and managed an autoparts store in BC for many years; NEVER saw a copper brake line or even heard of one being used and I sold MILES of brakeline.

Oh and FWIW, it isn't the burst strength that would bother me, it's the work hardening and brittleness.

.....and I'm NOT talking about DOT approved copper alloys, I'm talking about some backyard hack making brakelines out of soft copper tubing.


Dave



Years ago I ran 3/8" copper line across my shop, 3 of them for oxygen, acetylene and red grease for chassis lubes.
Guess which one didn't last?
The one that had grease in it, it burst near the pump. It has less PSI in it than do hydraulic brake lines, way less.

So I'm sure reg type K or L copper would never stand up to the pressures brake line are exposed to. Sure of it.
For some reason I ran rigid copper water pipe for my air hose long before I ran soft copper. So my shop is full of copper and has been in place for over 20 years at least.
Posted By: Commando1

Re: Copper used for brake line ????????????. - 10/19/11 08:56 PM

Quote:

I don't think the pic you posted was the result of a copper brake line.


Of course it wasn't. Didn't expect anyone to believe it was.
It's called artistic license...
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Copper used for brake line ????????????. - 10/19/11 09:14 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I don't think the pic you posted was the result of a copper brake line.


Of course it wasn't. Didn't expect anyone to believe it was.
It's called artistic license...



It wasn't ?
Posted By: mopar_man

Re: Copper used for brake line ????????????. - 10/19/11 09:26 PM

.

Attached picture 6879050-309618_272735779427513_125955227438903_906617_149426618_n.jpg
Posted By: dOOc

Re: Copper used for brake line ????????????. - 10/19/11 10:29 PM

Ahhhhh .. m_m ... justa' another conspiracy ... ....
Posted By: Evil Spirit

Re: Copper used for brake line ????????????. - 10/20/11 12:56 AM

Quote:



Years ago I ran 3/8" copper line across my shop, 3 of them for oxygen, acetylene and red grease for chassis lubes.
Guess which one didn't last?
The one that had grease in it, it burst near the pump. It has less PSI in it than do hydraulic brake lines, way less.

So I'm sure reg type K or L copper would never stand up to the pressures brake line are exposed to. Sure of it.
For some reason I ran rigid copper water pipe for my air hose long before I ran soft copper. So my shop is full of copper and has been in place for over 20 years at least.




The oxygen and acetylene are gasses and compress and hold more even pressure. The grease is more of a solid and does not compress, and may see pressure spikes 10 times over the regulated pressure as the regulator cycles.
Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: Copper used for brake line ????????????. - 10/20/11 01:03 AM

Quote:

Quote:


Not one accident that I know of has been attributed to a copper brake line bursting in the last 50 years here in Newfoundland



And you are from the Newfoundland DOT?

As far as I'm concerned:




I saw that on the news--its actually a new Fiat 500 that hit a traffic cone.
Posted By: Y3 70 BEE

Re: Copper used for brake line ????????????. - 10/20/11 01:12 AM

How did you break the steering wheel?
Posted By: macmic87

Re: Copper used for brake line ????????????. - 10/20/11 01:44 AM

here is a pic of the copper alloy brake line that was purchased at napa. this is for a 1941 buick. worked really nice.
Posted By: mopar_man

Re: Copper used for brake line ????????????. - 10/20/11 02:01 AM

Quote:

How did you break the steering wheel?



By holding on to it as I applied as much force as i could on the brake pedal .
Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: Copper used for brake line ????????????. - 10/20/11 02:08 AM

Quote:



The oxygen and acetylene are gasses and compress and hold more even pressure. The grease is more of a solid and does not compress, and may see pressure spikes 10 times over the regulated pressure as the regulator cycles.



The regulators are still at the tanks, the lines see between 15-70 psi for the cutting torch.

The grease line got replaced with steel and all is well.
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