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Powder Coating leaf springs

Posted By: mridolfo

Powder Coating leaf springs - 10/17/11 03:04 AM

I was planing on taking apart my leaf springs and having them powder coated. My question is would the heat from the oven damage(De arch)the springs.

Thanks
Posted By: MarkZ

Re: Powder Coating leaf springs - 10/17/11 03:49 AM

I can't speak to the question about the oven, but I would think the powder coating would crack and flake off with the flexing of the springs.
Posted By: dOrk !

Re: Powder Coating leaf springs - 10/17/11 03:56 AM

Just paint-em with some good engine enamel ...
Posted By: Scott Carl

Re: Powder Coating leaf springs - 10/17/11 06:09 AM

Quote:

I can't speak to the question about the oven, but I would think the powder coating would crack and flake off with the flexing of the springs.



Powder coating should be fairly flexible. At least the product I'm familiar with is. However, if the ovens raised the spring temp above 400 degrees f, then temper of the springs could become an issue as many spring steels temper anywhere around 400. 350 and lower,it shouldn't be a problem. Any metallurgists, powdercoaters care to confirm or deny?
Posted By: jcc

Re: Powder Coating leaf springs - 10/17/11 12:04 PM

I was always taught the reason stressed items were not chrome plated was that the plating visually hid stress cracking. The same might be said for powder coating, but then who ever checks their leaf springs for telltale cracks?

I personally would not powder coat them
Posted By: POS Dakota

Re: Powder Coating leaf springs - 10/17/11 12:08 PM

With paints out there as good as rust bullet and POR-15, I would go that route.
Posted By: dogdays

Re: Powder Coating leaf springs - 10/17/11 04:29 PM

The real reason you don't chrome plate suspension parts is because of HYDROGEN EMBRITTLEMENT. It works like this: when the part is being plated, hydrogen atoms migrate into the steel. There is enough space for a hydrogen atom to fit in the matrix. But the hydrogen atom isn't "happy" with being all alone and "wants" to join up with another hydrogen atom to make an H2 molecule. There isn't enough room in the matrix for that. Thus, the steel is internally stressed and can break with a brittle-appearing fracture at much lower stresses than the original steel part. To safely use chromed suspension parts the part has to be baked for several hours after plating to drive out the hydrogen atoms, even then you can't be sure.

R.

PS: To all those who know the correct ways to refer to the atoms, ions and molecules, I apologize as I can't remember after 35 years away from the classroom.
Posted By: burdar

Re: Powder Coating leaf springs - 10/17/11 05:22 PM

Another option is to blast the springs and leave them bare metal. Coat them with RPM so they don't rust.
Posted By: gomangoRTSE

Re: Powder Coating leaf springs - 10/17/11 10:40 PM

Coat them with RPM? Im sorry, what is this?
Posted By: Kudakidd

Re: Powder Coating leaf springs - 10/18/11 12:06 AM

Spend your money elsewhere. Powder coating a flexible part is asking for headaches.
Posted By: mridolfo

Re: Powder Coating leaf springs - 10/18/11 01:59 AM

The oven temp would be 330 degrees. I work in a Ecoat - powdercoat shop so its not going to cost anything.
Posted By: burdar

Re: Powder Coating leaf springs - 10/18/11 05:41 PM

Quote:

Coat them with RPM? Im sorry, what is this?




http://www.ecsautomotive.com/RPM/
Posted By: jcc

Re: Powder Coating leaf springs - 10/18/11 09:55 PM

Quote:

The real reason you don't chrome plate suspension parts is because of HYDROGEN EMBRITTLEMENT. It works like this: when the part is being plated, hydrogen atoms migrate into the steel. There is enough space for a hydrogen atom to fit in the matrix. But the hydrogen atom isn't "happy" with being all alone and "wants" to join up with another hydrogen atom to make an H2 molecule. There isn't enough room in the matrix for that. Thus, the steel is internally stressed and can break with a brittle-appearing fracture at much lower stresses than the original steel part. To safely use chromed suspension parts the part has to be baked for several hours after plating to drive out the hydrogen atoms, even then you can't be sure.

R.

PS: To all those who know the correct ways to refer to the atoms, ions and molecules, I apologize as I can't remember after 35 years away from the classroom.





Good reply, however that applies to most plating and should make many scratch their heads regarding using yellow zinc plated grade 8 bolts, etc. My plater says they after bake my grade 8, stressed stuff, but how does one really know?
Posted By: Rug_Trucker

Re: Powder Coating leaf springs - 10/18/11 11:17 PM

I thought sand blasting is not good for springs, or torsion bars?
Posted By: dogdays

Re: Powder Coating leaf springs - 10/19/11 05:11 PM

Two comments:
Rug, I would not sandblast a torsion bar or leaf spring because if the sand is sharp enough it could put discontinuities in the surface that would initiate cracks. The exterior fiber is the most highly stressed.
However, shot blasting or peening may have a positive effect.

On the other topic, I have not understood that to be the case with yellow dichromate bolts, maybe that's why the ARP stuff is black? I wanna know.

R.
Posted By: peabodyracing

Re: Powder Coating leaf springs - 10/19/11 06:44 PM

We blast and powder coat coil springs, leaf springs and torsion bars all the time here. We've done them for cars, 4 wheelers, motorcycles, trailers, mudders, etc. (JIT Powder Coating, Farmington, MN) In 10 years of catering to the hobbiest I've yet to have any come back for paint failure.

We use a crushed glass/plastic media combo for blasting which works very well for maintaining a good surface appearance. The cure cycle on most typical blacks like we put on springs is 18-20 minutes at 340-360 degrees F. This is the desired surface temp of the painted part, not the cure oven temp set point. This isn't enough temp or dwell time to affect the spring.

If you've ever visited a spring shop and seen how they're made I don't think you'd be concerned about cure oven temps.

As previously mentioned there is no similarity at all between chrome plating and powder coating.
Posted By: jcc

Re: Powder Coating leaf springs - 10/19/11 08:05 PM

Quote:

As previously mentioned there is no similarity at all between chrome plating and powder coating.




So which one is the one that you can see stress cracks beginning underneath?
Posted By: dogdays

Re: Powder Coating leaf springs - 10/19/11 08:18 PM

It's been my experience that any brittle coating will show cracks when the substrate deforms. I use it to discover where deformation has occurred. Chrome either cracks or flakes. Powder coat cracks unless it is very elastic. Paint cracks. Even mill scale, the blackish stuff on the surface of hot rolled steel, will crack if the part deforms.

Of course, I was using something I had already learned. An older way of determining strains in parts (before finite element analysis) was to make a part and coat it with special paint called "brittle coat". Then load the part. Remove the load and inspect the part. Cracks in the brittle coat would be perpendicular to the strain. One could tell from the cracks what strains were occurring.

R.
Posted By: Barnabas_Kriss

Re: Powder Coating leaf springs - 10/20/11 05:12 AM

Powder coating leaf springs should be just fine! I had it done on two cars, one over 10 years ago. Still looks as good as the day it was done, no cracking whatsoever. Same with the torsion bars. No sag in the springs either. I wouldn't go any other route except for a true 100 point OEM resto.
Posted By: THESHAKERPROJECT

Re: Powder Coating leaf springs - 10/20/11 06:20 PM

I would do it if the springs are pit free after blasting (most are not) and BTW, after you blast and powdercoat , get a re-build kit with the interleafs and straps you may have over $500 into a set of old worn out springs.
Posted By: jcc

Re: Powder Coating leaf springs - 10/20/11 07:48 PM

Quote:

It's been my experience that any brittle coating will show cracks when the substrate deforms. I use it to discover where deformation has occurred. Chrome either cracks or flakes. Powder coat cracks unless it is very elastic. Paint cracks. Even mill scale, the blackish stuff on the surface of hot rolled steel, will crack if the part deforms.

Of course, I was using something I had already learned. An older way of determining strains in parts (before finite element analysis) was to make a part and coat it with special paint called "brittle coat". Then load the part. Remove the load and inspect the part. Cracks in the brittle coat would be perpendicular to the strain. One could tell from the cracks what strains were occurring.

R.




I agree to a large degree, however I think the issue with chrome is it can delaminate, hiding a beginning crack, and as others seem to think, powder coating is elastic, which would delay? a coating crack. the brittle paint idea is cool. Regardless this is splitting hairs, unless this is an F1 site.
Posted By: roe

Re: Powder Coating leaf springs - 10/21/11 03:20 PM

Quote:

I would do it if the springs are pit free after blasting (most are not) and BTW, after you blast and powdercoat , get a re-build kit with the interleafs and straps you may have over $500 into a set of old worn out springs.




Where can you get a rebuild kit with the interleafs and straps? If I can afford to replace my springs, then Im thinking about pulling mine, wire wheeling them, paint them black, and then reinstalling...and some of the interleafs really need to be replaced. And just to be sure, the interleafs refer to the little plastic peices at in between the tips of the leafs right?

thanks
roe
Posted By: THESHAKERPROJECT

Re: Powder Coating leaf springs - 10/21/11 04:24 PM

Try Totally Auto , Mega parts,RT Spec...ect . I think most were around $80 or so the last time I got one. They should include the plastic end pieces and the interleafs (the stamped steel pieces between the springs)and the straps. Remember, when you strip/fill the pits/rebuild,restrap,repaint,many hours of labor and you still have a re-built set of worn out springs. I have done it a few times and the third time, I just ordered a new set. ESPO has a good set of springs for the price.
Posted By: maximus

Re: Powder Coating leaf springs - 10/22/11 11:27 AM

I use POR-15 also, 6 years later and it looks like the day I painted them. Very flexible paint.
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