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Upgrade to High Amp alternator on my 65...Advice?

Posted By: 68FuryIIIColo

Upgrade to High Amp alternator on my 65...Advice? - 10/13/11 08:23 PM

Hey all, I know it's been discussed many times but can't find the answer to my question anywhere.
I am upgrading my old alternator on my 65 Dodge D200 because I am putting in EFI and an electric fan that can pull like 60amps. I think I am going to the u-pull this weekend and they have quite a few 90-95 truck/van/dakota. From what I have read that seems like what I'm looking for. I know I will have to grab the alternator, regulator, and a 2v pulley like my truck has.
How do I tell how many amps the alternator puts out? Part number, markings on the case or what? I know they can be anything from a 75-120 amp. I figure I might as well go big right, that way I can stuff an amp and nice system in it too down the road. I have also upgraded most of the wiring under the hood and dash to take more current.
Let me know if you all have any advice for me!
Thanks,
Mike
Posted By: feets

Re: Upgrade to High Amp alternator on my 65...Advice? - 10/13/11 09:59 PM

You have to get the part numbers and look them up to get the output. It is not listed on the alternator.

Look for the pre-Magnum engines for a V-belt high output alternator. They're easy to spot. Look for the half-size alternator body.
You will have to trim the output stud a wee bit and tweak your brackets for the belt to line up.

I've been running one for years on the hot rod. It handles the monster Mercedes cooling fan, EFI system, 1000 watt Kenwood amp, power inverter for the laptop, and all kinds of other stuff.

I ran a 4 gauge wire from the output stud to the starter relay.
Since the fan flashes to 59 amps on startup I wired it directly to the alternator.
Posted By: Pool Fixer

Re: Upgrade to High Amp alternator on my 65...Advice? - 10/14/11 12:20 AM

you can run a serp pulley alt by removing the serp pulley and installing a 70's GM pulley. I did it to Denso alt I got off a 2000 RAM van. I had to get a new nut and used loctite on threads. It's been like that for 10 years.
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Upgrade to High Amp alternator on my 65...Advice? - 10/14/11 03:05 PM

Quote:

Look for the pre-Magnum engines for a V-belt high output alternator. They're easy to spot. Look for the half-size alternator body.


Feets is that the one with the "thin" stator (middle section)? and the 78 amp one which is I think one of the highest rated stcok type ones from iirc a 85 M body one of those
Posted By: 68FuryIIIColo

Re: Upgrade to High Amp alternator on my 65...Advice? - 10/14/11 03:26 PM

Quote:

You have to get the part numbers and look them up to get the output. It is not listed on the alternator.

Look for the pre-Magnum engines for a V-belt high output alternator. They're easy to spot. Look for the half-size alternator body.
You will have to trim the output stud a wee bit and tweak your brackets for the belt to line up.

I've been running one for years on the hot rod. It handles the monster Mercedes cooling fan, EFI system, 1000 watt Kenwood amp, power inverter for the laptop, and all kinds of other stuff.

I ran a 4 gauge wire from the output stud to the starter relay.
Since the fan flashes to 59 amps on startup I wired it directly to the alternator.


Nice information. I guess if I get a 90-92 alternator it should have the 2v pulley on the vans and trucks. If it is later or a Dakota it will have the serp pulley. The 87-89 trucks and vans have a 3 year only high output alternator right? The ones I am looking for is this one correct?

Now for the regulator...I see them listed for the pre 1992 but is there one for the ones after 1992? I thought the alternators all have external regulators up to like 1999.
Posted By: feets

Re: Upgrade to High Amp alternator on my 65...Advice? - 10/14/11 06:32 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Look for the pre-Magnum engines for a V-belt high output alternator. They're easy to spot. Look for the half-size alternator body.


Feets is that the one with the "thin" stator (middle section)? and the 78 amp one which is I think one of the highest rated stcok type ones from iirc a 85 M body one of those




It's this alternator:




Any regulator will work. In the early 90s the regulator was integrated into the engine computer so you're not going to find them.
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Upgrade to High Amp alternator on my 65...Advice? - 10/14/11 08:00 PM

Quote:

It's this alternator:

Got it, thanks Feets
Posted By: 451Mopar

Re: Upgrade to High Amp alternator on my 65...Advice? - 10/15/11 05:55 AM

Big block or small block?
I put a 130 Amp alternator on my big block, but had to re-locate it because it was too deep to fit in the stock location. I think the 90-amp denso alternators are smaller, and I also think the alternator has more room depth wise on a small block than on a big block. My alternator was off a newer truck with the serpintne belt, but the pulley is keyed and held on with a nut and washer, not press fit like the old original style alternators so it is easy to replace. I went to an alternator repair shop and get a v-belt pulley for less than $20 so it's not that big a deal.
One issue may be the spacing between the belts on a multi "v" belt pulley, if you are using two belts? The electrical part is pretty easy.
I would switch to an electronic voltage regulator, but the stock mechanical one should work if you ground one field wire (the other connected to the mechanical regulator.)
With the electronic regulator the +12 volt switched power that went to the mechanical regulator would now connect to the new electronic regulator AND one of the alternator field connections. The other field connection would run back to the regulator.
The Alternator output terminal, connect the stock output wiring and add another 10-AWG wire that connects back to the battery positive (or Starter safety relay BATT connection) through a fuseable link. Thats really all you need.
For high draw loads like the radiator fan, you should add another connection/wire to the alternator output stud to get power directly from the alternator.

Not sure where your at in Colorado, but if your around the Denver area I could give you a hand if you need help.
Posted By: Scamp408

Re: Upgrade to High Amp alternator on my 65...Advice? - 10/15/11 01:17 PM

my set up 90amp

Attached picture 6872223-mopar001.jpg
Posted By: ahy

Re: Upgrade to High Amp alternator on my 65...Advice? - 10/15/11 01:18 PM

Quote:

I ran a 4 gauge wire from the output stud to the starter relay.
Since the fan flashes to 59 amps on startup I wired it directly to the alternator.



Key point on the heavier charge wire. A 90 or 120 amp alternator along with heavier electrical loads will toast the factory setup quickly. A heavy charge wire from the alternator directly to the fender relay stud or battery is important. A fusible link in the charge wire near the fender relay will provide protection against shorts. 6 guage charge wire and 10 guage fusible link would work in your application. NAPA usually stocks the heavy primary wire. Autoparts stores don't usually carry 10 guage fusible link. An auto-electrical shop would have it.

With this setup, your ammeter is bypassed won't register. You need to add a voltmeter to monitor the system.
Posted By: feets

Re: Upgrade to High Amp alternator on my 65...Advice? - 10/15/11 02:51 PM

I don't like fusible links.

Since my alternator is a 130 amp unit, I installed a 125 amp fuse like this:



If my hot rod ever tops out a 130 amp alternator I've got a problem.
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Upgrade to High Amp alternator on my 65...Advice? - 10/15/11 03:07 PM

Quote:

I don't like fusible links.

I agree & once I had the main harness pretty much melt from what appeared to be a near dead short before the FL opened. Luckily I never have probs like that (so far) other than that one time but I would prefer to have a fuse or better yet I'd think a circuit breaker but I dont know which type to get & I'm not sure what amp rating I would need for my current vehicle (65 dart, no electrical add ons)
Posted By: 451Mopar

Re: Upgrade to High Amp alternator on my 65...Advice? - 10/15/11 09:02 PM

On my car I am just running two 10-AWG wires.
One wire to the original alternator wire, and the other directly the the starter relay.
This basically puts them in parallel, but the direct wire will have slightly less resistance so it will see most of the load. In theory the amp gauge should work, but take twice the current for the same indicator position. Even though I have a 136 amp alternator, I got it mostly for the improved low speed output and better bearing design. It's rare if it has to output more than 40-amps. The parallel wiring also reduces the current through bulkhead connector.
Both lines must be fused, and if one fuse goes the other will be taken out too. I like the fuse with the holder. Not sure how long it takes to blow the fuse? The fuseable link allows excess current for a short time before it burns out. Either way, all it is really protecting is the wiring to/from the alternator.
Posted By: 68FuryIIIColo

Re: Upgrade to High Amp alternator on my 65...Advice? - 10/16/11 03:05 PM

OK, great information here. Thanks everyone.
I went to the U-Pull yard in Denver and looked and looked. I found mostly 90 amp alternators but could not find a 120 amp. I finally found a 136 amp and pulled that one. Now the voltage regulator was another story. It seems like those are in high demand. The harness for those came up with a dead end.
I have the normal style regulator in my 65 D200 but it is one of the solid state electronic ones. It just has the same form factor and case as the old mechanical regulator. Will that work with the high amp alternator or do I still have to use one of the 70+ voltage regulators?
Posted By: Bill MeLater

Re: Upgrade to High Amp alternator on my 65...Advice? - 10/16/11 03:56 PM

This one works for me. Cheap too...http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/1972-Dodge-Charger/Voltage-Regulator/_/N-ipmbbZ9ci9t
Posted By: Andrewh

Re: Upgrade to High Amp alternator on my 65...Advice? - 10/16/11 06:47 PM

you can use it.
that is what I run on my car.
just hook it up to one of the field ends on the alt and ground the other.
works just fine.
been running on mine for 2 or 3 years now.

put it through it paces earlier this year, and powered 2 of the mercedes fans with my system. melted off the end of the cable on the alternator side, but none of my other wiring had any issues.

HAd left it loose at the big bolt end. so it arc welded a bit.
Posted By: Chris2581

Re: Upgrade to High Amp alternator on my 65...Advice? - 10/16/11 10:23 PM

Quote:

I don't like fusible links.

Since my alternator is a 130 amp unit, I installed a 125 amp fuse like this:



If my hot rod ever tops out a 130 amp alternator I've got a problem.



That's what I put on my car using a 1 wire alternator.
Posted By: Pool Fixer

Re: Upgrade to High Amp alternator on my 65...Advice? - 10/17/11 12:59 AM

Quote:

OK, great information here. Thanks everyone.
I went to the U-Pull yard in Denver and looked and looked. I found mostly 90 amp alternators but could not find a 120 amp. I finally found a 136 amp and pulled that one. Now the voltage regulator was another story. It seems like those are in high demand. The harness for those came up with a dead end.
I have the normal style regulator in my 65 D200 but it is one of the solid state electronic ones. It just has the same form factor and case as the old mechanical regulator. Will that work with the high amp alternator or do I still have to use one of the 70+ voltage regulators?



any dual field from 69 and up works with this one. Napa has the reg and the special connector for it.
Here is a thread with pics I did on another site from 10 years ago

130 amp denso alternator conversion

The 130amp denso from a dodge does fit a big block without having to move it. I had to use a nut and grind a spacer with my dremel but that was it.
Posted By: Dave440

Re: Upgrade to High Amp alternator on my 65...Advice? - 10/17/11 05:36 PM

Look carefully for regulator vs. non regulator units. My 95 eclipse alt is 120 amps if I recall and is externally regulated. The regulator is in the computer. A year or 3 earlier the alternators came with internal regulators but looked almost the same. My computer went bad and 3 rebuilt ECMs later the rebuilder still couldnt get me one with a good regulator in it. I ended up bypassing the regulator in the computer and used a VR733 (1970 to mid 80s mopar electronic regulator) that "Bill Me Later" above mentioned. I prolly did it....5 or more years ago. Still Works perfectly. Output is around 13.8-14.5 volts. MAKE SURE the regulator case is grounded well to the body! A couple ppl online mentioned some of the cheaper versions with a zinc like finish on them didn't make a good ground. And for god sakes...bypass the ammeter if you're upgrading to a 75-100amp or more!! Otherwise....you'll need to carry a fire extinguisher and marshmallows just in case!!
Posted By: feets

Re: Upgrade to High Amp alternator on my 65...Advice? - 10/17/11 06:08 PM

The regulator doesn't care what kind of amperage the alternator makes. It's not even in that loop. The only thing it's concerned with is a 12 volt DC current.

You can use either style of old Mopar regulator with new alternators.
Posted By: 68FuryIIIColo

Re: Upgrade to High Amp alternator on my 65...Advice? - 10/17/11 06:11 PM

Quote:



any dual field from 69 and up works with this one. Napa has the reg and the special connector for it.
Here is a thread with pics I did on another site from 10 years ago

130 amp denso alternator conversion

The 130amp denso from a dodge does fit a big block without having to move it. I had to use a nut and grind a spacer with my dremel but that was it.


The bracket for my old Poly motor is a solid bracket, real heavy cast stuff. I'll end up using the angle grinder and thinning out the mount a bit to make it physically fit.
I am now left with the question about the regulator...A couple months back I bought one of these: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330597499396&viewitem=&vxp=mtr
It's a solid state electronic regulator but not sure if it will work with the higher amp alternator. Right now my square back alternator has one field grounded to the case. Does the new alternator get wired up the same way if may current voltage regulator will work?
Posted By: 68FuryIIIColo

Re: Upgrade to High Amp alternator on my 65...Advice? - 10/17/11 06:33 PM

Quote:

The regulator doesn't care what kind of amperage the alternator makes. It's not even in that loop. The only thing it's concerned with is a 12 volt DC current.

You can use either style of old Mopar regulator with new alternators.


Thanks! I must have posted at the same time you did. I just hate buying new parts just to make them obsolete.
Posted By: 68FuryIIIColo

Re: Upgrade to High Amp alternator on my 65...Advice? - 10/17/11 06:46 PM

Quote:

Big block or small block?
I put a 130 Amp alternator on my big block, but had to re-locate it because it was too deep to fit in the stock location. I think the 90-amp denso alternators are smaller, and I also think the alternator has more room depth wise on a small block than on a big block. My alternator was off a newer truck with the serpintne belt, but the pulley is keyed and held on with a nut and washer, not press fit like the old original style alternators so it is easy to replace. I went to an alternator repair shop and get a v-belt pulley for less than $20 so it's not that big a deal.
One issue may be the spacing between the belts on a multi "v" belt pulley, if you are using two belts? The electrical part is pretty easy.
I would switch to an electronic voltage regulator, but the stock mechanical one should work if you ground one field wire (the other connected to the mechanical regulator.)
With the electronic regulator the +12 volt switched power that went to the mechanical regulator would now connect to the new electronic regulator AND one of the alternator field connections. The other field connection would run back to the regulator.
The Alternator output terminal, connect the stock output wiring and add another 10-AWG wire that connects back to the battery positive (or Starter safety relay BATT connection) through a fuseable link. Thats really all you need.
For high draw loads like the radiator fan, you should add another connection/wire to the alternator output stud to get power directly from the alternator.

Not sure where your at in Colorado, but if your around the Denver area I could give you a hand if you need help.


Sounds like I am getting all the answers now. Thanks! I think I have all I need now. Someone at some point upgraded to a square back alternator at some point. I have found the pulley I need too (early 90's van & truck), they are just a B*&%$h to get off in the u-pull yard. Since you mentioned I'll check out the spacing on the actual new pulley and see if it's spaced the same as the original one.
I'm down in Parker, not too far from you in Aurora. I may take you up on your offer! I'll keep you posted.
Posted By: 451Mopar

Re: Upgrade to High Amp alternator on my 65...Advice? - 10/17/11 10:17 PM

I was just at the Kaiser Medical building in Parker.
Got a sinus infection - yuck.
Anyhow, post a photo if the back of the alternator.
It should have the two wire plug in connector?
Either regulator will work, they just wire up a bit different.
Here's a photo of how I mounted my alternator.

Attached picture 6876031-alt.jpg
Posted By: 68FuryIIIColo

Re: Upgrade to High Amp alternator on my 65...Advice? - 10/17/11 11:51 PM

Quote:

I was just at the Kaiser Medical building in Parker.
Got a sinus infection - yuck.
Anyhow, post a photo if the back of the alternator.
It should have the two wire plug in connector?
Either regulator will work, they just wire up a bit different.
Here's a photo of how I mounted my alternator.


Nice looking setup! My alternator has 2 post with nuts holding on the big black connector then one thicker post for the battery/relay feed. I'll post a pic when I get home...on the downside of this Monday at work.
Posted By: 68FuryIIIColo

Re: Upgrade to High Amp alternator on my 65...Advice? - 10/19/11 03:47 PM

Here are a couple pictures of the alternator I got. Like I said it does not have the 2 pin plug on the back but it has 2 wire studs on the back. Now, how does this wire in? I am using an old style solid state (electronic) regulator not the 1970+ electronic regulator.
Thanks

Posted By: Andrewh

Re: Upgrade to High Amp alternator on my 65...Advice? - 10/19/11 04:35 PM

so take the field wire from your vr and wire it to one of the field wires.

take another wire and wire it to the other field wire and ground it somewhere. some people ground to the case.

and big wire to charge the battery as normal.
Posted By: 68FuryIIIColo

Re: Upgrade to High Amp alternator on my 65...Advice? - 10/19/11 07:58 PM

Quote:

so take the field wire from your vr and wire it to one of the field wires.

take another wire and wire it to the other field wire and ground it somewhere. some people ground to the case.

and big wire to charge the battery as normal.


Well cool. That is just how my squareback is set up now.
Thanks,
Posted By: 451Mopar

Re: Upgrade to High Amp alternator on my 65...Advice? - 10/20/11 02:18 AM

Quote:

so take the field wire from your vr and wire it to one of the field wires.

take another wire and wire it to the other field wire and ground it somewhere. some people ground to the case.

and big wire to charge the battery as normal.



That should work
Posted By: 68FuryIIIColo

Re: Upgrade to High Amp alternator on my 65...Advice? - 11/22/11 07:49 PM

Thanks everyone for their help on my alternator conversion. Very cost effective. From the U-Pull yard in Denver I got a Denso 146amp alternator out of a Durango $25, Mopar/Wells electronic regulator and harness $5, and the proper dual v belt pulley $0. I had to go to Advanced auto and get a Mr Gasket alternator bracket for like $12 with my discount and a couple longer belts. I have allot of wire from old projects and audio installs so I re-purposed that as well as a 150 amp fuse and holder in the 4 gauge wire from the alternator output to the battery. Real simple install and just had to narrow the alternator bracket just a little to have the alternator fit like it was meant to be there. I did bypass the amp gauge and used a Sunpro voltmeter to monitor the electrical. I modified the gauge to make it blend in with the dash in the truck.
Great upgrade for the modifications I have planned like a Viper cooling fan, EFI, and an audio system. Here are a few pics...





Thanks again for everyone's insight on my little project!
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: Upgrade to High Amp alternator on my 65...Advice? - 11/22/11 08:03 PM

Those Denso alternators are great. 146 amp is overkill IMHO. But I guess you are planning adding a lot of electrical draw.

I went with and internal regulated Denso off a Suzuki Samuari. Advertised at 45-50 amps. Super easy wiring. I was able to modify a stock alternator bracket and just make the right spacers. Mine is awesome at idle at night with all my electrical on. Not even a flicker.

Attached picture 6931274-2_20_11Sm7.JPG
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Upgrade to High Amp alternator on my 65...Advice? - 11/23/11 12:15 AM

Quote:

Those Denso alternators are great. 146 amp is overkill IMHO.

Is there any prob w them other than more money for a higher amp unit? I'm assuming in use it'd have a shorter duty cycle which'd be good. More info on the fuse you used, the 150 amp
Posted By: MoparMarq

Re: Upgrade to High Amp alternator on my 65...Advice? - 11/23/11 01:51 AM

Nicely done. Looks like it always belonged there.
Posted By: 451Mopar

Re: Upgrade to High Amp alternator on my 65...Advice? - 11/23/11 02:48 AM

Looks nice! Hows that Poly 318 run?
Posted By: 68FuryIIIColo

Re: Upgrade to High Amp alternator on my 65...Advice? - 11/23/11 05:32 AM

At the U-pull yard ANY alternator is $25, I was looking for at least a 120 amp but then saw this one, Googled the part number on my Android and found it was a 146 amp!!! Sweet, just had to use a bigger fuse and wires. I used a mini ANL fuse I had in the parts bin in the line to the battery. I rated it as just a little over the maximum rating of the alternator just in case it starts to over charge...
Posted By: 68FuryIIIColo

Re: Upgrade to High Amp alternator on my 65...Advice? - 11/23/11 05:37 AM

Quote:

Looks nice! Hows that Poly 318 run?


I love my Poly! Allot of guys are critical about keeping the old Poly instead of a LA or Magnum motor in it's place. It starts and runs great, keeps up with traffic on the highway and just runs. I put an a518 overdrive behind it and sits at 2100 RPM at 70 mph. Next is a Holley Pro Jection TB with a Megasquirt. The Poly motors have to be uncorked so I put a 4bbl on it for now and have the headers ready to go in it.
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