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Pick my intake! Basic 440 motor

Posted By: eightlitermopar

Pick my intake! Basic 440 motor - 10/06/11 05:59 AM

Ok, first off….I know that similar questions have been asked here.

However, the search function on here is taking up a lot of time , so here it goes.

Which aftermarket dual plane manifold would work best on a stock 440?

Now, basic information.

1969 Dodge Coronet

440 motor out of a 1970 Chrysler town and country. Motor hold compression, cranking compression ranging from 125-145 range depending on cylinder.

Stock 1970 906 castings with runners cleaned up a bit (burrs and sharp edges removed)

We will be putting a FAST fuel injection system on it.

HP manifolds with full dual exhaust.

Camshaft will be a Comp 268H single grind (.450 lift, 268 deg duration)

Keisler TKO 5 speed with 0.64 overdrive

3.91 sure grip rear end.

This car is my dad’s, and he is looking for a fun road trip cruiser with some muscle for freeway onramp action.

He will not be revving the pi$$ out of it to make power and he won’t be at the track trying to cut tenths of a second off his E.T.

We have the stock 4 barrel manifold, but I guess an aftermarket would help a little….OR would it for this combo?

I was leaning towards an Edelbrock performer RPM for the intake (my brother has one on this stroker motor and loves it), but we are also worried about hood clearance.

I have tried to convince him to go to aluminum heads, but for this combo I am afraid it may hurt his drivability as far as low end torque, the need for headers to make it worth it, etc. What I mean is…I don’t know if the investment would be worth it in this case.

Anyway, what do you think? Stocker 4 barrel manifold, Eddy perf RPM, or other?

Thanks!

eight
Posted By: hunterstroble

Re: Pick my intake! Basic 440 motor - 10/06/11 06:29 AM

The performer RPM does fantastic on the dyno shoot outs, however It might be too tall, but with a drop down air cleaner you may be ok. The Mopar m1 dual plain is a good choice as we. My two cents.
Posted By: 340SHORTY

Re: Pick my intake! Basic 440 motor - 10/06/11 08:09 AM

Holley Street Dominator 1st pick
Eddy RPM 2nd pick...
Posted By: Pale_Roader

Re: Pick my intake! Basic 440 motor - 10/06/11 08:27 AM


Street Dominator with some light plenum work (this can be done even with a small rat tail file). Low profile (lower than the RPM), nice low end torque, very good power, looks good and can be found cheap (read: used).

The RPM would be a not too close second, but way ahead ov anything else. The Edelbrock (non-RPM) dual planes and the Mopar dual planes are too close to the stocker to bother, unless you just want the weight savings.
Posted By: rapom

Re: Pick my intake! Basic 440 motor - 10/06/11 12:26 PM

Posted By: Spaceman Spiff

Re: Pick my intake! Basic 440 motor - 10/06/11 12:29 PM

Why fuel injection?
Posted By: DennisH

Re: Pick my intake! Basic 440 motor - 10/06/11 12:33 PM

Quote:

The performer RPM does fantastic on the dyno shoot outs, however It might be too tall, but with a drop down air cleaner you may be ok. The Mopar m1 dual plain is a good choice as we. My two cents.


Yep. Drop down and Power-Bulge Hood saved the day.
Posted By: Danan

Re: Pick my intake! Basic 440 motor - 10/06/11 02:45 PM

In my opinion, you won't see any gains by swapping out the stock manifold. I'd suggest investing the money somewhere else..
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Pick my intake! Basic 440 motor - 10/06/11 02:48 PM

Quote:

In my opinion, you won't see any gains by swapping out the stock manifold. I'd suggest investing the money somewhere else..



I'm with you , anything stock will be fine for this application , if he wants an aluminum intake to save the weight a regular performer, or the CH4B, would probably be a better choice .
Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: Pick my intake! Basic 440 motor - 10/06/11 03:47 PM

We will be putting a FAST fuel injection system on it...

WHY? that makes no sense. All that money for what gain? I'd think for your application I'd go w/ a CH4B, small spacer and a 750 vacuum holley or remanned AFB.
Posted By: Montclaire

Re: Pick my intake! Basic 440 motor - 10/06/11 03:51 PM

I'd go with a CH4B. Great for the street and there are usually no fitment issues.
Posted By: Commando1

Re: Pick my intake! Basic 440 motor - 10/06/11 04:26 PM

Quote:

Quote:

In my opinion, you won't see any gains by swapping out the stock manifold. I'd suggest investing the money somewhere else..



I'm with you , anything stock will be fine for this application , if he wants an aluminum intake to save the weight a regular performer, or the CH4B, would probably be a better choice .


Also agreed.
Quote:

We will be putting a FAST fuel injection system on it


Now that is just plain dumb. dumb, dumb.
Posted By: eightlitermopar

Re: Pick my intake! Basic 440 motor - 10/06/11 04:57 PM


I am confused...how would putting fuel injection on a motor be stupid? reliability? increased mileage? Don't have to change out jets everytime we drive 200 miles away from our high elevation? I honestly don't know the answer and I'm not being rude...this is an honest question....

why would fuel injection be dumb?

eight


[Also agreed.
Quote:

We will be putting a FAST fuel injection system on it


Now that is just plain dumb. dumb, dumb.

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: Pick my intake! Basic 440 motor - 10/06/11 05:11 PM

Quote:


I am confused...how would putting fuel injection on a motor be stupid? reliability? increased mileage? Don't have to change out jets everytime we drive 200 miles away from our high elevation? I honestly don't know the answer and I'm not being rude...this is an honest question....

why would fuel injection be dumb?

1. Isn't going to be anymore reliable, 2. won't have increased mpgs (not enough to warrent the cost anyway) and 3 who needs to change jets evey 200 feet of elevation?
The money spent on an EFI system would be better spent on new pistons, heads, exhaust...or almost any other upgrade.
Posted By: eightlitermopar

Re: Pick my intake! Basic 440 motor - 10/06/11 05:23 PM


1. Isn't going to be anymore reliable, 2. won't have increased mpgs (not enough to warrent the cost anyway) and 3 who needs to change jets evey 200 feet of elevation?
The money spent on an EFI system would be better spent on new pistons, heads, exhaust...or almost any other upgrade.



Correction: It's not 200 feet of elevation. It was 200 miles. Going south 200 miles where we usually go can be over 2000 foot elevation drop.

So my follow up question. At what point would fuel injection be a viable alternative? Aluminum heads, bigger cam, headers? Obviously, I am new to the fuel injection thing, so this is why I am asking. If fuel injection was an option, then I supposed a different intake would be beneficial.

thanks for the input guys

And since we are on the subject, would Eddy Performer RPM heads and headers do anything for a motor this stock-ish?

eight
Posted By: daniel_depetro

Re: Pick my intake! Basic 440 motor - 10/06/11 05:23 PM

If you are going to switch intake, I'd choose the Edelbrock Performer RPM. Great intake, lightweight and looks nice when painted engine color to match.

I put one on our 1968 Dodge Coronet with a 440 4-speed and it clears the hood fine with a Purolator Pure One 4" tall air filter element when using a Moroso 1" drop base 14" round air cleaner.
*Note: I do have the Super Bee / R/T bulge hood on the car.





As for saying saying fuel injection is a waste of money...
While it might not be an immediate gain of power/mileage the 'set it and forget it' aspect of fuel injection is great. As is the ability of instantly tuning the fuel with nothing more then some tweaking on a PC. No removing screws, sticking gaskets, and changing jets.
Posted By: eightlitermopar

Re: Pick my intake! Basic 440 motor - 10/06/11 06:04 PM

Quote:

As for saying saying fuel injection is a waste of money...
While it might not be an immediate gain of power/mileage the 'set it and forget it' aspect of fuel injection is great. As is the ability of instantly tuning the fuel with nothing more then some tweaking on a PC. No removing screws, sticking gaskets, and changing jets.








Honestly, the main concern and reason for "thinking" of fuel injection is avoiding the crappy ethanol gas problems of clogging and tearing up carbs....but I am still open to people with experience and input.

thanks

eight
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Pick my intake! Basic 440 motor - 10/06/11 06:28 PM

Quote:


1. Isn't going to be anymore reliable, 2. won't have increased mpgs (not enough to warrent the cost anyway) and 3 who needs to change jets evey 200 feet of elevation?
The money spent on an EFI system would be better spent on new pistons, heads, exhaust...or almost any other upgrade.



Correction: It's not 200 feet of elevation. It was 200 miles. Going south 200 miles where we usually go can be over 2000 foot elevation drop.

So my follow up question. At what point would fuel injection be a viable alternative? Aluminum heads, bigger cam, headers? Obviously, I am new to the fuel injection thing, so this is why I am asking. If fuel injection was an option, then I supposed a different intake would be beneficial.

thanks for the input guys

And since we are on the subject, would Eddy Performer RPM heads and headers do anything for a motor this stock-ish?

eight



Ignore the comments about your injection want from the peanut gallery , especially the that thinks a Holley is answer for every single carb recommendation ...

In your case with the elevation change , even on a stock engine , fuel injection is a good choice , if it weren't every single car that rolled out of every single showroom would have a holley 4 bbl on it ...

The head change and the headers will help with power production of course , but you'd probably want to use a different cam , etc....
Posted By: GTX MATT

Re: Pick my intake! Basic 440 motor - 10/06/11 06:42 PM

Quote:



And since we are on the subject, would Eddy Performer RPM heads and headers do anything for a motor this stock-ish?

eight



As John said a bigger cam will help make the heads and headers more effective, but you will certainly see a gain. That non HP cam is so small though you really can find a cam that will idle pretty smooth, have no noticeable low end loss and give you a big mid range gain with todays grinds. If you used the Eddy heads, intake, and headers with something around 220 duration you'd have a pretty tame torque monster.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: Pick my intake! Basic 440 motor - 10/06/11 06:51 PM

I'd think the money would be better spent on other items. Since you asked I think The RPM would be overkill however a nice used CH4B or S/D intake would be a good choice. A vacuum 750 holley would work well but so would just about any carb besides the Eddy 750. I've been using this "crap" gas since it came out and have yet to have a gas related problem. As for the altitude issue I guess you'll have to see how much you drive 200 miles away. Headers and intake will help pick-up 25hp or so. Not sure how bad your heads are but even a set of 440source heads is probably going to pick you up even more. If HP gain is more important than EFI then the add ons is where you should spend your money. I guess it depends on what you want to spend. Headers, intake and new 440source heads is about $1100.00 If all you want is a strong good running 440, then just tune what you have and save all that cash for something down the road.
Posted By: rtman

Re: Pick my intake! Basic 440 motor - 10/06/11 07:02 PM

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techa...st/viewall.html

CH4B is on my mild 440.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Pick my intake! Basic 440 motor - 10/06/11 08:28 PM

Quote:

I've been using this "crap" gas since it came out and have yet to have a gas related problem.



Then you are the only person in the country with a non fuel injected, recreational use, non 24/7/365 race car that hasn't....

What's your secret ?
Posted By: eightlitermopar

Re: Pick my intake! Basic 440 motor - 10/06/11 09:10 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I've been using this "crap" gas since it came out and have yet to have a gas related problem.



So far it messed one of my carbs up bad enough I finally pulled it and put it on the shelf for now....

the input has got me thinking though, I would like to boost up the motor, but we are in limbo as far as what to do. We have the small cam mentioned already from a previous motor we got, and the 906 heads are currently on the motor....

I would love to see a set of eddy heads go on the motor, but then again as Mr. Yuck said...it's not like I could just throw heads on it. Then I am looking for a definate heads, headers, camshaft and intake setup so there won't be a gross mismatch....

Hmmm

eight
Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: Pick my intake! Basic 440 motor - 10/07/11 12:51 AM

do this..add the cam t-chain set, headers, intake (CH4B) carb of choice (no 750 eddy's) and run it. See how you like it. Then if you want to upgrade to EFI do it. I think you'll be happy. A small cammed 440 is going to put you back in the seat.
A good cheap build (and I've done a few) is a new t-chain set, summit 488 cam, CH4b intake, holley 750 carb, headers and MP electronic ing. Makes for an easy 13 second b-body. Ran 12.90's w/ the same set-up w/ 3.91's and a 2800 stall. Non-ported 906 heads, cheap headers and 2.5 exhaust.
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: Pick my intake! Basic 440 motor - 10/07/11 01:33 AM

With a mild cam and stock heads, IMO a used CH4B is your best bet if you're using a carb or throttle body injection. Now if you decide to do a big of a cam and a set of better flowing heads, consider an edelbrock victor efi intake and do a port efi system instead. Good, even flow to all cylinders and port efi, this is where you see the real gains over carb as you don't have the wet flow issues like with carb or throttle body efi on a cold start. Also you have minimal cylinder to cylinder a/f variations with a setup like that. Costs a little more, but if modern style turn key driveability and response is what you're after, IMO it's the best choice.
Posted By: Danan

Re: Pick my intake! Basic 440 motor - 10/07/11 11:04 AM

1. Think long and hard about what you want the car to do/be when it's done. Be VERY honest with yourself or you won't be happy with it and will throw good money after bad to make it right.

2. Research what it will take to achieve your goal. Researching now will keep you from throwing good money after bad (see a pattern? As Moltke said "A plan is nothing. To plan is everything").

3. Build the car to meet your goal.

4. If your goal is a stock 'cruiser' and you have a cast iron intake, I would suggest using what you have. Why spend the money on a CH-4B which is EXACTLY the same as your stock intake except that it's cast in aluminum? Bear in mind that iron (engine) and aluminum (intake) expand at different rates as they heat up and cool. This differential will cause sealing problems that you will avoid with the iron intake.

5. In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with fuel injection. FOR ME, I'm not interested in injection because I understand carburetors and don't feel that a laptop computer should be required to tune my hot rod. Also, I don't mind taking a wrench to my car now and again to keep it running right. It's my hobby...
Posted By: 383man

Re: Pick my intake! Basic 440 motor - 10/07/11 04:10 PM

How can some of you say the factory iron intake is as good as the Eddy intakes ? The worst Eddy intake made over 25 more hp then the stock intake. I will take the Eddy intake any day over the stock intake unless I ran a class where you cant like Stock Eliminator. Ron
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: Pick my intake! Basic 440 motor - 10/07/11 04:28 PM

Danan, the CH4B is not just an aluminum copy of a stock intake. It does flow noticeably better than the stock intake.
Posted By: rtman

Re: Pick my intake! Basic 440 motor - 10/07/11 05:56 PM

Quote:


Why spend the money on a CH-4B which is EXACTLY the same as your stock intake except that it's cast in aluminum?



From the Mopar Muscle magazine article comparing intakes:
Edelbrock CH4B:
This intake has been out of production for years but retains a loyal following. Once Edelbrock's premier two-plane intake, it also sold through Mopar's Direct Connection program back in the day and is well remembered by old-time Mopar enthusiasts. We borrowed this one from local Mopar bud Harry Gicesare. The CH4B is similar in look and layout to the stock intake, and is a relatively low profile design. The numbers showed a substantial improvement compared to the stocker over most of the range tested, particularly higher up in the range. Interestingly, peak horsepower occurred very high in the rpm range with the CH4B, equaled only by the new Victor. It tended to favor higher rpm performance and was kind of soft at the bottom of the range. The averages were quite good among the other two planes (Weiand Action + and Performer RPM), well ahead of the stocker. No wonder people remember this as a good intake.
Posted By: Mopar_Rich

Re: Pick my intake! Basic 440 motor - 10/07/11 06:07 PM

Posted By: crowbait

Re: Pick my intake! Basic 440 motor - 10/08/11 04:06 AM

Why not a swap meet torquer? My 66 coronet has a stock 1968 30k mile 383 with a new chain and a used 600 edelbrock headers and 2.5 tti exhaust 727 3.23s with tall rear tires.This car has great throttle response and loves the freeway with approx 2000 rpm at a 65 mph cruise,just tap the throttle and easily gain 20 mph for passing,or onramp runs.Anyway the torquer was a $25 dollar swap meet find and the only reason I used it was because I already had it.Actually I cant belive how well this thing runs for what it is,a cheap driver.
Posted By: Strawdawg

Re: Pick my intake! Basic 440 motor - 10/08/11 04:32 AM

Holley Street Dominator and a throttlebody injection system will make a great driver....cold weather, hot weather, higher altitude, lower altitude, whatever. It may cost more up front, but for a street car, it will be an improvement all the way around....
Posted By: Mr. T

Re: Pick my intake! Basic 440 motor - 10/08/11 04:08 PM

Years ago, I had a 69 GTX. The 440 was stock. When the factory carb. went bad, I had it replaced with the Edelbrock Torquer and a 780 Holley. That was the best performance money I ever spent on that car. It really came alive with that combination.
I don't understand why so many of you are still having problems with ethanol gasoline. When racing season is over, around the end of November, I park my car and add a can of Stabil to it. After that I usually start the car about once a month and let it run for a few minutes. The 750 D.P. has been on the car for over 16 years now, and never any problems. In my mowers and weedeater, I do use non ethanol gas for them.
Posted By: 2boltmain

Re: Pick my intake! Basic 440 motor - 10/08/11 04:30 PM

I have always read and heard the Edelbrock "Performer"- NOT RPM- does not make as good of power as an OEM 4bbl iron intake from the performance era. I have also read that although the Weiand "Action Plus" is a competitor to the Performer- the Action Plus makes more power than a stock intake AND the Performer. The Action Plus is still available new.
Posted By: Osyman

Re: Pick my intake! Basic 440 motor - 10/08/11 08:01 PM

I just switched from a performer rpm to a street dominator for clearance reasons...


So if anyone is looking for a performer rpm..
Posted By: eightlitermopar

Re: Pick my intake! Basic 440 motor - 10/09/11 05:13 AM

Thanks for the replies guys....I have a lot of options to think of here.

I talked with my dad and he thinks he wants go "stocker"-ish at this point and just run it. If he likes it, he'll stay with it. If not, we will go from that baseline.

I think we will spring for a bigger cam though for some added torque, I will have to narrow that down and see...

This means stock heads (as stated), HP manifolds, etc etc.

He does have a gently used DUI ignition he acquired, so he will be using that...

As far as intakes go...hood clearance is a concern...

So stock iron,
Torker
Holly dominator intake,
or something similar may be a consideration. Jury is still out.

However, we do have the iron intake (actually we have several)....

The point is...I am getting a lot of ideas here. Thanks for the input.

Keep it coming!

Eight
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