440 running at high temp??

440 running at high temp?? - 09/14/11 01:24 AM

I have a primarily stock low compresion 440 In my 70 Challenger. It was a 74 motor. Stock bottom end. The only modifications are milled heads and a slightly hotter cam. Stock exhaust and intake. The car was an original 318 A/C 3 speed car with the heavy duty cooling system. I'm using the factory radiator that came with the car. It was boiled out and tested. Problem is I'm running the factory non ralley dash. On hot days the gauge runs just below the hot line. (within the normal range. But I meen it's right next to the line. It seems to be worse on the highway than around town. Since there are no numbers on the guages does anyone know about what temp I'm running at. Is this normal or do I need a larger radiator. I was tole this was the biggest one for the challenger. It's never overheated, but once in a while it will spit out a little coolant after being shut down. Any help would be greatly appreiciated

Posted By: T2R9

Re: 440 running at high temp?? - 09/14/11 01:33 AM

Without a quality mechanical gauge or a temp gun it is hard to determine where your gauge reads. My mechanical gauge sits right at 180-185 but my factory gauge reads half way. It is normal for these to puke a little after shut down until the radiator finds its happy level.

Posted By: dOc !

Re: 440 running at high temp?? - 09/14/11 03:24 AM

WORSE on the hwy ? ..take the fan off ...and try it. It could be blocking air-flow at speed.

Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: 440 running at high temp?? - 09/14/11 03:54 AM

The only way to do worse on the highway is a cooling system restriction somewhere like poor airflow, clogged rad, etc. Are you sure your lower rad hose isn't being sucked shut when at higher rpm? You're supposed to have a spring in there to prevent that.

I ran a low-cr smogger 440 on a 318 rad for years without problem. Heated up a little bit when sitting in traffic on a warm day, but not much past the 1/2 mark on the gauge. Without an accurate aftermarket gauge it's hard to tell what you're really doing for temp.

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: 440 running at high temp?? - 09/14/11 01:07 PM

Quote:

The only way to do worse on the highway is a cooling system restriction somewhere like poor airflow, clogged rad, etc. Are you sure your lower rad hose isn't being sucked shut when at higher rpm? You're supposed to have a spring in there to prevent that.

If the spring is in the lower hose, then it's lean. That's why it get's hot under power. Lean and timing is why most guys have temp troubles.

And leave the fan on it, it's not blocking air flow. What's he supposed to do when he slows down without a fan?

Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: 440 running at high temp?? - 09/14/11 01:37 PM

Check the actual temp. the factory gauges are not that accurate. Normal to burp after shut down as the temp & pressure rises do to heat soak. This is why burp tanks and coolant reserve systems were made. Do you have a shroud?

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: 440 running at high temp?? - 09/14/11 01:52 PM

As said check actual temp. Boiling out is not terribly effective in alot of cases. I say need to swap radiators. Can toss the stat for a 1 hour test as it may not b opening all the way which causes a restriction "at speed" but OK around town & it's easy to test but way less likely that it is a stat prob. If the sender in the wp housing is bad it'll give erratic/inconsistent readings but you said it's consistant but just showing too high on the gauge right?

Posted By: Commando1

Re: 440 running at high temp?? - 09/14/11 02:54 PM

Quote:

WORSE on the hwy ? ..take the fan off ...and try it. It could be blocking air-flow at speed.

Ummmm...
That's like drilling a hole in the boat to let the water out...

Posted By: 68 Sat

Re: 440 running at high temp?? - 09/14/11 03:35 PM

I have a 440 that had the same problems. Wound up being the timing. When I switched to a Mallorey unit that adjusted it made all the difference..My dummy gauge on the dash reads the same as yours and I also have a mooneyes temp gauge that reads around 185...not a problem..

Posted By: dOc !

Re: 440 running at high temp?? - 09/14/11 06:16 PM

Quote:

Quote:

WORSE on the hwy ? ..take the fan off ...and try it. It could be blocking air-flow at speed.

Ummmm...
That's like drilling a hole in the boat to let the water out...

OBVIOUSLY our good-buddy Goin'Commando has limited Xperience with boats ...

IF the boat is moving .... and you pull the plug out of the rear of the boat .. any water in the boat will flow-OUT very nicely.

And the same basic premise applies to a cooling system on a car. Past 12-15 mph(or so) .. the forward movement of the vehicle is enuff air-flow to cool the rad. I know a guy who ran a 4 banger Omni for years with a uNfunctional electric fan(due to some electrical issue he could never seem to track-down).

He wound-up putting the fan on a manual switch IF he ever got catch in bumper-to-bumper traffic.

Posted By: Viol8r

Re: 440 running at high temp?? - 09/14/11 06:43 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

WORSE on the hwy ? ..take the fan off ...and try it. It could be blocking air-flow at speed.

Ummmm...
That's like drilling a hole in the boat to let the water out...

OBVIOUSLY our good-buddy Goin'Commando has limited Xperience with boats ...

IF the boat is moving .... and you pull the plug out of the rear of the boat .. any water in the boat will flow-OUT very nicely.

And the same basic premise applies to a cooling system on a car. Past 12-15 mph(or so) .. the forward movement of the vehicle is enuff air-flow to cool the rad. I know a guy who ran a 4 banger Omni for years with a uNfunctional electric fan(due to some electrical issue he could never seem to track-down).

He wound-up putting the fan on a manual switch IF he ever got catch in bumper-to-bumper traffic.

You are assuming he has an electric puller fan on his stock set-up? Not sure he mentions that in his post. Unless you suggesting he remove his stock mechanical fan? That is not going resolve any issues.

I will agree with other posts and say you are either lean or you could use some more timing.

Posted By: dOc !

Re: 440 running at high temp?? - 09/14/11 06:55 PM

Quote:

You are assuming he has an electric puller fan on his stock set-up? Not sure he mentions that in his post. Unless you suggesting he remove his stock mechanical fan? That is not going resolve any issues.

I will agree with other posts and say you are either lean or you could use some more timing.

NO I am not at all. I am assuming he has a stock mech fan on this ..of some sort. And to remove this fan(a EZ task in most cases) to do a quick test ... to see if this is the issue...?? ... and are you suggesting that a mech fan that is spinning around .. that is close to the rad ...CAN NOT block the flow of air through the rad ?

And if there is a LEAN ISSUE that is causing this ... it would have a major lean-surge during this over-heating.

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: 440 running at high temp?? - 09/14/11 07:24 PM

Quote:

Quote:

You are assuming he has an electric puller fan on his stock set-up? Not sure he mentions that in his post. Unless you suggesting he remove his stock mechanical fan? That is not going resolve any issues.

I will agree with other posts and say you are either lean or you could use some more timing.

NO I am not at all. I am assuming he has a stock mech fan on this ..of some sort. And to remove this fan(a EZ task in most cases) to do a quick test ... to see if this is the issue...?? ... and are you suggesting that a mech fan that is spinning around .. that is close to the rad ...CAN NOT block the flow of air through the rad ?

And if there is a LEAN ISSUE that is causing this ... it would have a major lean-surge during this over-heating.

wrong, it can be lean and not surge.

Posted By: Viol8r

Re: 440 running at high temp?? - 09/14/11 07:28 PM

Quote:

Quote:

You are assuming he has an electric puller fan on his stock set-up? Not sure he mentions that in his post. Unless you suggesting he remove his stock mechanical fan? That is not going resolve any issues.

I will agree with other posts and say you are either lean or you could use some more timing.

NO I am not at all. I am assuming he has a stock mech fan on this ..of some sort. And to remove this fan(a EZ task in most cases) to do a quick test ... to see if this is the issue...?? ... and are you suggesting that a mech fan that is spinning around .. that is close to the rad ...CAN NOT block the flow of air through the rad ?

And if there is a LEAN ISSUE that is causing this ... it would have a major lean-surge during this over-heating.

I am not even really sure how to respond to those questions. Obviously I am not on the same wavelength with you. I guess he should remove his fan all together? Then what is the solution?

BTW, you can be lean and not surge......too much timing is usually what will cause the surge.

Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: 440 running at high temp?? - 09/14/11 07:34 PM

If he weren't confused before - he is now.

Posted By: dOc !

Re: 440 running at high temp?? - 09/14/11 07:48 PM

Quote:

I am not even really sure how to respond to those questions. Obviously I am not on the same wavelength with you. I guess he should remove his fan all together? Then what is the solution?

BTW, you can be lean and not surge......too much timing is usually what will cause the surge.

I am saying that he should try removing the fan .... on and for a temporary test only.

And YES it can be lean and not surge ... but if it is LEAN ENOUGH to cause a overheating issue ....it will in most cases be surging also.

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: 440 running at high temp?? - 09/14/11 09:51 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I am not even really sure how to respond to those questions. Obviously I am not on the same wavelength with you. I guess he should remove his fan all together? Then what is the solution?

BTW, you can be lean and not surge......too much timing is usually what will cause the surge.

I am saying that he should try removing the fan .... on and for a temporary test only.

And YES it can be lean and not surge ... but if it is LEAN ENOUGH to cause a overheating issue ....it will in most cases be surging also.

Get a clue...

Posted By: dOc !

Re: 440 running at high temp?? - 09/14/11 09:59 PM

Quote:

Get a clue...

THIS .... from a guy who is totally CLUEless ?

Take a wiff..

ChallyNONE.

Posted By: DennisH

Re: 440 running at high temp?? - 09/14/11 10:32 PM

Fun read. No/little info from OP results in outstanding reading-fun.

Posted By: Viol8r

Re: 440 running at high temp?? - 09/14/11 10:37 PM

Quote:

Fun read. No/little info from OP results in outstanding reading-fun.

For all the overheating topics we have had in the past.......removing the stock fan is definetly one of the more well thought one's I have seen in a while.

Seriously though, there are a lot of past posts on overheating with some great information. Start with the simple things, like hoses, and T-stat, then start into the tune and the timing.

Posted By: dOc !

Re: 440 running at high temp?? - 09/14/11 11:08 PM

Quote:

For all the overheating topics we have had in the past.......removing the stock fan is definetly one of the more well thought one's I have seen in a while.

Seriously though,

SERIOUSLY THOUGH ? ... so you are not ? ... Well I am. And some of those larger(and more flexible) flex-fans were seriously-GUILTY of seriously-blocking air-flow.

Why ? ... BECAUSE they would flatten out .... at 2800 rpms or so .... and yes BLOCK air-flow. And if you think that a typical electric fan comes on at-hwy-speeds ...PUT a on/off lite in the fan-circuit and see-for-yourself ...

Posted By: Viol8r

Re: 440 running at high temp?? - 09/14/11 11:51 PM

I think you are getting confused.......the fan, even a stock/ aftermarket fan at 2800rpms is accelerating the air flow through the radiator, not slowing it down. Especially in combo with a shroud, this helps direct air where it needs to go.

I believe we have officially killed this thread! Sorry OP.

Posted By: dOc !

Re: 440 running at high temp?? - 09/14/11 11:55 PM

You are OBVIOUSLY uNinformed ...

...and to add ... adding a typical old-school shroud into the combo ...can actually RESTRICT the flow even more ...

Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: 440 running at high temp?? - 09/15/11 01:43 AM

I have to agree with Doc this time. At speeds above say 30 mph the is not needed for cooling and can in fact somewhat restrict air flow. Don't try city or stop and go driving without one though.

Posted By: Imrare

Re: 440 running at high temp?? - 09/15/11 10:32 PM

Is there a heat gage that can be purchased "off the shelf" that will work with the stock Chrysler "heat gage sending unit" that is in the engine?

Posted By: az426john

Re: 440 running at high temp?? - 09/15/11 11:32 PM

You might benefit from going to Harbor Freight and buying a "Non-Contact Laser Thermometer". That way you can just point a shoot to get a temperature reading.

Posted By: Imrare

Re: 440 running at high temp?? - 09/16/11 05:00 PM

Quote:

You might benefit from going to Harbor Freight and buying a "Non-Contact Laser Thermometer". That way you can just point a shoot to get a temperature reading.

Thanks...are there any do's and don'ts on using the "point & shoot" lazer therometers to be sure I get an accurate reading? Point it at the WP housing for a reading?

Posted By: az426john

Re: 440 running at high temp?? - 09/16/11 05:25 PM

I typically shoot the top tank, bottom tank and Water Pump housing.

Look for the delta T across the radiator top to bottom. The more temperature differential across the radiator top to bottom (within reason) the better. I sometimes pull the radiator cap while it is running and shoot the actual liquid, but it is usually the same as the top tank.

This generally eliminates the inaccuracys of the gauge and you only have to deal with what ever the accuracy of the Laser Thermometer is. Mine is a Cen-Tec unit that works pretty well for the price, but I am sure there are others.