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160 thermostat-vs-180 thermostat & no cold weather driv
Posted By: A12
160 thermostat-vs-180 thermostat & no cold weather driv - 07/19/11 04:41 PM
What's the theory or thought behind using a 160 degree thermostat instead of a 180 in a '69 GTX 440 stock engine, should it run cooler with the 160?
MikeR
Posted By: dOoC
Re: 160 thermostat-vs-180 thermostat & no cold weather driv - 07/19/11 04:49 PM
IF your cooling system is 100% effective .. whichever stat is in the car .. it should run dead-nutz on-it. But that very rarely happens.
Posted By: MoparforLife
Re: 160 thermostat-vs-180 thermostat & no cold weather driv - 07/19/11 05:08 PM
The stat cannot regulate temperatures above the stat rating. If that engine has a tendency to run at 190 with a160 stat the stat can't control that situation.
160 is really too cool anyway. Better lubrication and runs cleaner for better efficiency at higher temps.
Posted By: rapom
Re: 160 thermostat-vs-180 thermostat & no cold weather driv - 07/19/11 09:17 PM
If you have a good cooling system, a 160 degree thermostat allows you to run without fear of detonation especially if your compression is high and you are running pump gas. You can have your timing set more advanced when you engine runs cooler. Your fuel won't vaporize as quickly after shutting down your engine.
Buy a Milodeon 160 degree stat. It's a lot better than the Napa superstats.
Posted By: stumpy
Re: 160 thermostat-vs-180 thermostat & no cold weather driv - 07/19/11 09:35 PM
Enigine needs to run at leats 180* or it won't run at it's best. It also won't burn off the condensation in the oil as it should.
Posted By: HYPER8oSoNic
Re: 160 thermostat-vs-180 thermostat & no cold weather driv - 07/20/11 01:12 AM
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: 160 thermostat-vs-180 thermostat & no cold weather driv - 07/20/11 04:00 AM
180 (minimum)
Posted By: 63stabamatic
Re: 160 thermostat-vs-180 thermostat & no cold weather driv - 07/20/11 11:59 AM
I agree, 160 is too cold. I run a high flow 180 degree stat in my stock 69GTX 440 with A/C.
Posted By: 70Cuda383
Re: 160 thermostat-vs-180 thermostat & no cold weather driv - 07/20/11 12:43 PM
I saw a chart that showed how engine wear reduced exponentially as engine temp comes up, with wear being almost nil at 180-185.
Posted By: DennisH
Re: 160 thermostat-vs-180 thermostat & no cold weather driv - 07/20/11 01:30 PM
Quote:
I agree, 160 is too cold. I run a high flow 180 degree stat in my stock 69GTX 440 with A/C.
180 Napa superstat. Minimum.
Posted By: babarracuda
Re: 160 thermostat-vs-180 thermostat & no cold weather driv - 07/20/11 02:26 PM
Back in the 60-70's, we ran 160 thermostats so it wouldn't overheat on hot days. If your radiator is adeqate, 180 is by far better. 160 only helps with an undersized radiator, and then only until there are really hot days. If you need a 160 thermostat, don't cruise on hot night or take trips more than 60 miles. Been there, done that, got the Tshirt.
Posted By: terzmo
Re: 160 thermostat-vs-180 thermostat & no cold weather driv - 07/20/11 02:53 PM
If it's cold weather(definition of cold ?) 180 is the way to go but in hot weather...85 on up....I run a 160 as it will heat quickly to 160...open and allow the engine to "potentially" run cooler than a 180. Old cars need to run cool...unlike the new cars today that are designed for higher temps. My silverado runs a steady 210 when warm..I wouldn't run My Bee very long at 210. AND as far as burning bad stuff off...would Your finger be hurt any less in a vat of 180 oil or 160 oil ?
In the 50's/60's we'd run no thermostat in summer. Why...keep the old iron cool...High temps...210 plus is not good...I've run a 160 for decades and I'll wager I get more miles out of a block than higher temp stats. My experience of driving for over 45 years.
Note...not to scare you but a 180 in a car with a good cooling system will NOT hurt anything..it's just with a 180...engines tend to run 190 plus..then cool..then heat...where a 160 will keep them under 180 and that's what I prefer
Posted By: MoparforLife
Re: 160 thermostat-vs-180 thermostat & no cold weather driv - 07/20/11 02:55 PM
Quote:
Back in the 60-70's, we ran 160 thermostats so it wouldn't overheat on hot days. If your radiator is adeqate, 180 is by far better. 160 only helps with an undersized radiator, and then only until there are really hot days. If you need a 160 thermostat, don't cruise on hot night or take trips more than 60 miles. Been there, done that, got the Tshirt.
A stat can't keep a vehicle from over heating. It was another myth. A stat cannot regulate temps above the stat rating. Once it is open it open whether it is a 160 or a 190. Just like the thermostat in your house cannot regulate the temperature above what the thermostat is set at on a hot day. If you have your stat set a \t 68 and the sun wants to up teh temp to 90 there is no way that the stat can regulate that. (AC equiped house not withstanding)
Posted By: StealthWedge67
Re: 160 thermostat-vs-180 thermostat & no cold weather driv - 07/20/11 03:54 PM
My car makes more power at 160-165 than it does at 180-185. I went to a 160 stat, and gained a consistant 1-1.5 MPH at the track. So I'm going to rely on that evidence. As far as wear....... makes sense for a daily driver, my car sees about 1000 miles a year, I'm not too worried about it.
Posted By: dogdays
Re: 160 thermostat-vs-180 thermostat & no cold weather driv - 07/20/11 03:59 PM
If you could keep the intake at 35 degrees and the oil at around 180 it's be ideal for making power. On the other hand a warm intake vaporizes the fuel better resulting in better mileage. I imagine this wouldn't be true with direct injection, but we don't have to worry about that on our older cars.
R.
Posted By: 70Cuda383
Re: 160 thermostat-vs-180 thermostat & no cold weather driv - 07/20/11 05:50 PM
true, max power vs longevity. it's a trade off.
as it always is.
wanna make 8,000 hp? well, consider yourself lucky if it stays together for 1/2 mile.
want to run 200K miles on one rebuild? then you're not going to run a massive cam with aggressive ramps that require insane spring pressures
on the engine dyno, we made max power by doing 4 back to back pulls to get the oil temp up as high as we could. it was at 185 degrees.
then we dumped the hot water out, and cycled in cold water until the water was coming out at 110 degrees.
then made another pull, and picked up 15 hp over the other pulls we had been making.
but...when are you ever going to be able to duplicate that on the street?
Posted By: rapom
Re: 160 thermostat-vs-180 thermostat & no cold weather driv - 07/20/11 06:49 PM
I would like to add that my car runs a constant 172 with my 160 degree stat. I also had a 180 stat in mine and it would run 195 degree plus.
Posted By: terzmo
Re: 160 thermostat-vs-180 thermostat & no cold weather driv - 07/20/11 06:50 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Back in the 60-70's, we ran 160 thermostats so it wouldn't overheat on hot days. If your radiator is adeqate, 180 is by far better. 160 only helps with an undersized radiator, and then only until there are really hot days. If you need a 160 thermostat, don't cruise on hot night or take trips more than 60 miles. Been there, done that, got the Tshirt.
A stat can't keep a vehicle from over heating. It was another myth. A stat cannot regulate temps above the stat rating. Once it is open it open whether it is a 160 or a 190. Just like the thermostat in your house cannot regulate the temperature above what the thermostat is set at on a hot day. If you have your stat set a \t 68 and the sun wants to up teh temp to 90 there is no way that the stat can regulate that. (AC equiped house not withstanding)
I agree as if the water temp is over 160..the stat is going to open and won't close till under 160. A stat will heat up a car faster than a non stat system as it won't allow flow through the rad untill the water temp is over the stat rating. With no stat..you get "potential" max cooling all the time as the is no water obstruction. Even an open stat reduces the opening,thus reducing water flow.
Posted By: A12
Re: 160 thermostat-vs-180 thermostat & no cold weather driv - 07/21/11 05:45 PM
Posted By: A12
Re: 160 thermostat-vs-180 thermostat & no cold weather driv - 07/21/11 05:50 PM
Posted By: MoparforLife
Re: 160 thermostat-vs-180 thermostat & no cold weather driv - 07/21/11 05:50 PM
Quote:
FWIW: Yesterday with a 160 standard flow thermostat, outside/ambient temps in the mid 90's (F) and cruising on the Ohio Turnpike at 70 mph. Sunday with similar conditions but a little cooler out the temp gauge needle was right on the next to the last line and the car puked coolant two minutes after I shut the engine off at a local cruise 
. just FYI and I have no clue on a 160 versus a 180 thermostat???? 
MikeR
That is why they came out with burp tanks. wasn't that you were necessarily overheating but that the coolant quit circulating and pressure built up.
Posted By: az426john
Re: 160 thermostat-vs-180 thermostat & no cold weather driv - 07/21/11 06:21 PM
You can't compensate for a cooling system that is at its maximum efficiency by using a colder thermostat.
In the Arizona desert many of us use triple core radiators with 3/8" tubes on 3/8" centers. It is just a simple fact of life that anything less is marginal and will probably fail just when you don't want it to.
Posted By: A12
Re: 160 thermostat-vs-180 thermostat & no cold weather driv - 07/21/11 06:29 PM
Quote:
You can't compensate for a cooling system that is at its maximum efficiency by using a colder thermostat.
In the Arizona desert many of us use triple core radiators with 3/8" tubes on 3/8" centers. It is just a simple fact of life that anything less is marginal and will probably fail just when you don't want it to.
Understand and agree with what you and others are saying about that but why have differant heat rating thermostats at all if there is no difference between a 160, 180, 195 or why even have a thermostat if they have no affect on engine running temp or cooling? Would I be better to get an aluminum multi core radiator and electric fan and not run a thermostat in a system like that?
Posted By: 68LAR
Re: 160 thermostat-vs-180 thermostat & no cold weather driv - 07/21/11 06:57 PM
Quote:
My car makes more power at 160-165 than it does at 180-185. I went to a 160 stat, and gained a consistant 1-1.5 MPH at the track. So I'm going to rely on that evidence. As far as wear....... makes sense for a daily driver, my car sees about 1000 miles a year, I'm not too worried about it.
Same here. I run a 160 and the engine NEVER goes above 170 even on 90*+ days. I DO NOT have a daily driver and my car doesn't see more than 1000 miles a year also. If it works , don't fix it! 
Posted By: az426john
Re: 160 thermostat-vs-180 thermostat & no cold weather driv - 07/21/11 07:03 PM
Depending upon what you want for origionality you should be able to get a triple core copper with 3/8 X 3/8 tubes in using your origional top & bottom tanks. You could then probably run the stock fan and stock temperature thermostat (180?) (assuming the fan clutch is in good condition). I would run the A/C or Mildidon water pump and one of the superstat thermostats. If you switch to an aluminum radiator you may need an anode to keep corrosion under control. You might also have the radiator cap pressure tested to assure it is holding the specified pressure. Just my opinions.
I have a 67 Hemi car here in AZ with a simular set up with a 4 blade fan. It works really well as long as you are moving. When I am stopped after coming off the freeway, and it is a 100+ degree day, it gets up to about 1/2 way on the temperature gage but once I start moving it drops right off to about 3/8 of the way on the gage.
Posted By: MoparforLife
Re: 160 thermostat-vs-180 thermostat & no cold weather driv - 07/21/11 07:03 PM
Quote:
Quote:
You can't compensate for a cooling system that is at its maximum efficiency by using a colder thermostat.
In the Arizona desert many of us use triple core radiators with 3/8" tubes on 3/8" centers. It is just a simple fact of life that anything less is marginal and will probably fail just when you don't want it to.
Understand and agree with what you and others are saying about that but why have differant heat rating thermostats at all if there is no difference between a 160, 180, 195 or why even have a thermostat if they have no affect on engine running temp or cooling? Would I be better to get an aluminum multi core radiator and electric fan and not run a thermostat in a system like that?
They cannot control temps above the stat rating. No matter what you think. They can help control base temperatures and speed up the time ti takes to get to operating temperatures. It is found that there is more overall efficiency at higher operating temperature. As for the guys putting out more power with a 160 that is all well and good on a limited used type vehicle such as a drag car. You would but out more yet if you could control your engine lubricant temp keeping it at a higher level and cooling your incoming fuel and air mix where your power is made. Also not shooting for clean air efficiency.
Posted By: stumpy
Re: 160 thermostat-vs-180 thermostat & no cold weather driv - 07/21/11 08:27 PM
Quote:
Quote:
You can't compensate for a cooling system that is at its maximum efficiency by using a colder thermostat.
In the Arizona desert many of us use triple core radiators with 3/8" tubes on 3/8" centers. It is just a simple fact of life that anything less is marginal and will probably fail just when you don't want it to.
Understand and agree with what you and others are saying about that but why have differant heat rating thermostats at all if there is no difference between a 160, 180, 195 or why even have a thermostat if they have no affect on engine running temp or cooling? Would I be better to get an aluminum multi core radiator and electric fan and not run a thermostat in a system like that?
The different stats have an effect on what the lowest temp will be not the highest. A 160 will open at 160 and a 195 won't open until the engine hits 195. Most street engines need a 180-185 stat to operate their best. Race engines do better at 160. A 180 stat will make the engine run at least 180 but won't keep it down at 180. A 160 will make the engine run 160 but again not keep it at 160. The high temps are controlled by flow and the engine and raditors ability to dispell heat.
Posted By: roadrunner69s
Re: 160 thermostat-vs-180 thermostat & no cold weather driv - 07/21/11 09:29 PM
To control the overflow after parking for cruise night I would just use a plastic commuter drink cup that I placed in front of the radiator support. Was removeable within seconds. To get a little better heat removal in summer you can run Water Water with straight demineralized water or with a glycol/water mix of around 10/90 or 20/80. When I ran the 160 deg stat in the car during colder weather I'd just block off part of the radiator core with a piece of cardboard to optimize running temp, and allow a quicker heat up. On winter maintenance runs in 25 deg weather I'd have about 80% of the core covered. Simpler than swapping stats.
RR69s
