Moparts
What electric fan to use?? Running hot
Posted By: 67GTMIKE
What electric fan to use?? Running hot - 07/18/11 03:42 PM
Big block stroker with 4core champion aluminum radiator.
Have a shroud duel 12" electric fan setup pulling 2800 cfm's.
Still running hot, hear I need more powerful fans?
Anyone know what I should try?
Posted By: feets
Re: What electric fan to use?? Running hot - 07/18/11 03:45 PM
What size is the core?
If it's the same size as a stock 26" fan, there's only one high performance solution.
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...part=1&vc=1
Posted By: Viol8r
Re: What electric fan to use?? Running hot - 07/18/11 06:38 PM
I doubt that is your issue. Do you know what your initial timing is?
Posted By: 67GTMIKE
Re: What electric fan to use?? Running hot - 07/18/11 07:01 PM
Radiator is 24x16 tanks on top / bottom
Fans are 12" 1400 cfm each.
It is moving good air but, I think I need more powerful fans.
I will look into the benz you have but, I don't think I will have clearence to engine because it is a single fan, motor in middle and like I said I have a 3" think 4 core rad. May be tight fit.
Thanks-
Posted By: 68Bullit
Re: What electric fan to use?? Running hot - 07/18/11 07:13 PM
Quote:
It is moving good air but, I think I need more powerful fans.
You should consider that if it's already "moving good air" that it's probably moving the air good enough, or maybe even more than enough. I'd look elsewhere to solve the problem. OR..... if it is NOT moving enough with an electric fan setup, I'd move away from electric fans and go thermal clutch fan with a shroud after I checked the timing
Posted By: dOc !
Re: What electric fan to use?? Running hot - 07/18/11 07:23 PM
R U sure it is air-flow ? .... try driving it 30mph or faster. If your running-hot issue goes-away ..THEN it is a flow-prob.
But with a 2800 cfm fan .. it should NOT be.
Posted By: Viol8r
Re: What electric fan to use?? Running hot - 07/18/11 09:17 PM
Quote:
Radiator is 24x16 tanks on top / bottom
Fans are 12" 1400 cfm each.
It is moving good air but, I think I need more powerful fans.
I will look into the benz you have but, I don't think I will have clearence to engine because it is a single fan, motor in middle and like I said I have a 3" think 4 core rad. May be tight fit.
Thanks-
Really!!! Benz fans!? Ok. You have not even checked the basic things yet. 
Posted By: John_Kunkel
Re: What electric fan to use?? Running hot - 07/19/11 12:01 AM
How "hot" is it running and under what conditions?
Posted By: 79powerwagon
Re: What electric fan to use?? Running hot - 07/19/11 12:52 AM
You also didn't say what your definition of "hot" is, and at what type of operation it becomes "hot".
Posted By: 340SHORTY
Re: What electric fan to use?? Running hot - 07/19/11 02:23 AM
what water pump and houseing are you running??
Posted By: DennisH
Re: What electric fan to use?? Running hot - 07/19/11 01:45 PM
Quote:
Quote:
It is moving good air but, I think I need more powerful fans.
You should consider that if it's already "moving good air" that it's probably moving the air good enough, or maybe even more than enough. I'd look elsewhere to solve the problem. OR..... if it is NOT moving enough with an electric fan setup, I'd move away from electric fans and go thermal clutch fan with a shroud after I checked the timing
Agreed. Thermal. Copper. Green coolant. 180 Superstat. Shroud.
Posted By: 67GTMIKE
Re: What electric fan to use?? Running hot - 07/19/11 02:39 PM
Ok, here is some more detail:
It is new stroker 72 400 block 30 over to 499 stuffed in an A body 68 Dart. Built for street / strip.
The timming is not advanced. I am running 93 octane with the NOS octane booster. 11 to 1 compression. Hi Flow mech water pump.
Using water and the wet water additive that says it helps reduce temp.
I started out with a 22x16 champinon 4 core rad along with a 16" Zirgo electric fan that stated it pushes 3000 cfm. It would not fit as a puller, so I mounted it in grill as pusher. I did have enough room for a mech fan with no shroud so I ran that as well. No thermostat.
Let her run at idel, took around 18 minutes before it climmed to 205 then I shut it down.
I took her for a ride and it stayed around 195 till I slow down or stop at a light then she quickly starts to rise and I am forced to shut her down again. I then put in a 160 thermostat and it did not help.
So I assumed I needed a stronger cfm fan.
Problem can't find nor fit a bigger fan on that 16x22 rad, so I eneded up gettng a new 16x24 4 core rad with the (2) 12" fans along with shroud.
They fit in as a puller but, no room for mech fan anymore.
This fan setup is rated at 1400 each = 2800 cfm but, it appears to be a much better setup and the fans do seem better than the one Zirgo.
Yet I am still having the same issues, made little to no difference.
Looking online reading up on rad and fan setups I notice for the bigger apps / trucks , most of the setups are putting out over 4000 cfm using big 13" to 15" duel fans.
So again I am wondering if I need to stuff an even bigger radiator in my Dart so I can mount bigger stronger fans?
Posted By: Viol8r
Re: What electric fan to use?? Running hot - 07/19/11 03:28 PM
Quote:
I doubt that is your issue. Do you know what your initial timing is?
You are really hung up on the fans and thermostats! I can almost bet you are way off on your timing. That is a lot of motor for someone to make comments like "the timing is not advanced".
I PM'ed you with some questions. I think you will get a lot more information if you start with the basics.
Posted By: Fury Fan
Re: What electric fan to use?? Running hot - 07/19/11 04:13 PM
Quote:
Ok, here is some more detail:
It is new stroker 72 400 block 30 over to 499 stuffed in an A body 68 Dart. Built for street / strip.
Problem might be aggravated if the engine's not broken in yet?
Quote:
Hi Flow mech water pump.
Using water and the wet water additive that says it helps reduce temp.
There was a batch of aftermarket alum waterpump housings that reportedly had small passages in them. I don't know anything more than that nugget, you'll have to research that one.
Quote:
Let her run at idel, took around 18 minutes before it climmed to 205 then I shut it down.
205° isn't quite dangerous at idle/no-load, it's just higher than we gearheads want. How much higher would it go? If it's 95° ambient, settling in at say, 208° at idle might be 'normal'. 
Quote:
I took her for a ride and it stayed around 195 till I slow down or stop at a light then she quickly starts to rise and I am forced to shut her down again. I then put in a 160 thermostat and it did not help.
A 160 T-stat will not make an engine run cooler if there is something under-performing in the cooling system. It will simply make it take a little longer to get to that first T-stat opening point and maybe a few after that. Meaning - it buys you a little time, but doesn't change the equilibrium temperature of the system.
Posted By: rapom
Re: What electric fan to use?? Running hot - 07/19/11 09:23 PM
If you are running a 440source waterpump housing, those have been known to cause overheating because they are restrictive.
Also make sure you got a good engine to chassis ground.
Posted By: John_Kunkel
Re: What electric fan to use?? Running hot - 07/19/11 10:50 PM
Quote:
Let her run at idel, took around 18 minutes before it climmed to 205 then I shut it down.
I took her for a ride and it stayed around 195 till I slow down or stop at a light then she quickly starts to rise and I am forced to shut her down again. I then put in a 160 thermostat and it did not help.
That's not really too hot depending on your cap, a 16 psi cap is good to over 230.
Posted By: ahy
Re: What electric fan to use?? Running hot - 07/19/11 11:59 PM
205 idle/195 running is a bit warm but not dangerous. Running down the road with a good stream of air and 160 degree stat, you should really see temps below 195. I'm not so sure the fan is the problem. On paper you have a strong system - 4 core rad, high flow WP, big electric fan - but you are not quite where you want to be. A pic of the radiator/fan/shroud setup might help diagnose. Here are some suggestions to help get temps down... some repeated from previous posts.
- Check timing and idle mixture. Adequate timing at idle helps the engine run more efficiently and reduces heat. With a warm cam you probably need 15-20 degrees advance at idle.
- Check pulley ratios. I've had great results with a slightly overdriven fan/waterpump running about 107% of crank speed. If you have a small crank pulley and large fan pulley, the pump may be running too slow.
- Let us know which pump you have. I'll dig out and post a pump comparison from a previous thread. Some/most of the aftermarket "high flow" pumps flow less at idle than the stock pump. The pump is a lot more important than the housing.
- Consider a 26" radiator. I believe you posted you are running a 22". The factory used 26" on higher power setups for good reason. Frontal area is a lot more effective than added rows to increase cooling capacity.
Posted By: ahy
Re: What electric fan to use?? Running hot - 07/20/11 12:02 AM
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: What electric fan to use?? Running hot - 07/20/11 06:57 AM
Quote:
Ok, here is some more detail:
I took her for a ride and it stayed around 195 till I slow down or stop at a light then she quickly starts to rise and I am forced to shut her down again. I then put in a 160 thermostat and it did not help.
So I assumed I needed a stronger cfm fan.
what thermostate were you running during the part in yellow?
now that you put a 160 in it, what does it run when you are moving?
it sounds like an air flow issue, if it maintains temp at speed, but not at idle.
not saying there aren't other things to do to help bring temps down, but I don't think a timing change will solve it all either.
Posted By: dOc !
Re: What electric fan to use?? Running hot - 07/20/11 07:21 AM
Quote:
I started out with a 22x16 champinon 4 core rad along with a 16" Zirgo electric fan that stated it pushes 3000 cfm. It would not fit as a puller, so I mounted it in grill as pusher. I did have enough room for a mech fan with no shroud so I ran that as well. No thermostat.
Let her run at idel, took around 18 minutes before it climmed to 205 then I shut it down.
I took her for a ride and it stayed around 195 till I slow down or stop at a light then she quickly starts to rise and I am forced to shut her down again. I then put in a 160 thermostat and it did not help.
A pusher fan .. mounted on the grille ? ... IMO .... 
WHAT will it take to get a puller in there ?
Posted By: feets
Re: What electric fan to use?? Running hot - 07/20/11 04:16 PM
Posted By: Viol8r
Re: What electric fan to use?? Running hot - 07/20/11 04:17 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Ok, here is some more detail:
I took her for a ride and it stayed around 195 till I slow down or stop at a light then she quickly starts to rise and I am forced to shut her down again. I then put in a 160 thermostat and it did not help.
So I assumed I needed a stronger cfm fan.
what thermostate were you running during the part in yellow?
now that you put a 160 in it, what does it run when you are moving?
it sounds like an air flow issue, if it maintains temp at speed, but not at idle.
not saying there aren't other things to do to help bring temps down, but I don't think a timing change will solve it all either.
Here we go again with the thermostat deal again!!! Once he is above 160º its all on the cooling system or tune at that point. If it can't maintain then we have other issues.
Timing will absolutely affect the temps at idle and at RPM. Man give this guy a chance to check the basics. I read some of these posts and its a wonder these cars ever make it out of the garage.
Posted By: 67GTMIKE
Re: What electric fan to use?? Running hot - 07/20/11 05:18 PM
Checking the timing now, will set it ( if other ) to 18 deg advanced and see if that helps.
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: What electric fan to use?? Running hot - 07/20/11 08:06 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Ok, here is some more detail:
I took her for a ride and it stayed around 195 till I slow down or stop at a light then she quickly starts to rise and I am forced to shut her down again. I then put in a 160 thermostat and it did not help.
So I assumed I needed a stronger cfm fan.
what thermostate were you running during the part in yellow?
now that you put a 160 in it, what does it run when you are moving?
it sounds like an air flow issue, if it maintains temp at speed, but not at idle.
not saying there aren't other things to do to help bring temps down, but I don't think a timing change will solve it all either.
Here we go again with the thermostat deal again!!! Once he is above 160º its all on the cooling system or tune at that point. If it can't maintain then we have other issues.
Timing will absolutely affect the temps at idle and at RPM. Man give this guy a chance to check the basics. I read some of these posts and its a wonder these cars ever make it out of the garage.
LOL, sure you are right, when it is open, that is all it gives, unless it was a 195 thermostat, THEN 195 is normal. and not hot.
IF it is a 160 and it hold 195(and RIF, he changed it after this, but did not mention what it was), then he has a cooling system problem.
SO. I say again, what were you running when it hit 195 on the cruise.
Posted By: 67GTMIKE
Re: What electric fan to use?? Running hot - 07/20/11 08:46 PM
Like it states.. I had no thermostat in at the time I took it for a ride. But, I did put a 160 in after that and as I stated, it did not change anything.
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: What electric fan to use?? Running hot - 07/21/11 02:01 AM
LOL, rif for me then.
missed it.
so then there still might be an issue with your cooling system.
perhaps the fans are impeding flow at speed as well.
though I don't know what a car would run with no thermostat.
Posted By: KY Charger
Re: What electric fan to use?? Running hot - 07/21/11 02:16 AM
Consider a 26" radiator. I believe you posted you are running a 22". The factory used 26" on higher power setups for good reason. Frontal area is a lot more effective than added rows to increase cooling capacity.
I totally agree, that is why home air conditioner manufacturers started making the condenser units taller so they have more surface area to dissipate heat.
Posted By: cudaboone
Re: What electric fan to use?? Running hot - 07/21/11 03:30 AM
I had a 408 stroker in my cuda and could not get it to run cool enough when idling or in traffic. It would gradually climb to 220 and i would shut it down. It was the original 22 inch rad that i had recored. I tried all the above fixes and no change. Finally called be cool and they assigned me a guy to work with. I got the 26 inch rad with double puller fans (30amps each). after that, it never went above 195 and i could sit in traffic all day. Used same set up when i went to 528 hemi. Only had to have the inlet and outlet reversed at a radiator shop. Only cost me 80.00 bucks. 1100 buck was scarry money, but turned out to be one of the best things i did. Also, had to put the battery in the trunk.
Posted By: 67GTMIKE
Re: What electric fan to use?? Running hot - 08/01/11 02:34 PM
For anyone wondering whats happening..
Finally had some time to do a few things, I was unable to check timming yet due to my timming light crapped out but - my new fans from Derale showed up the other day and for the hell of it I put them in. I also put in a small mech fan.
So at this point I am running a 4 core aluminum radiator 16x24
duel 12" Derale electric fans mounted in grill
A Jegs 15" mechanical fan ( no shroud yet )
And I also removed the thermosatat - so no therm.
I ran the car and to my amazement- it is working !!
It was around 85 - 90 degrese out and humid but- the car stayed under 195. I took her for ride and it stayed around 180, sitting at lights it climed but very slowly and did not go over 195.
So I figure once I install a shroud and I am going to try using restrictor to slow water flow down inplace of running a thermostat, it should run even lower temps.
I'm not saying I was correct in that I needed better fans but, I tell you I have tried many and they all did crap till I got these Derale fans. You can feel these fans kick in and they are moving lots of air 4000 cfm plus. Down side is they are not cheap.. 140 each.
Thanks for all your help guys.. will post new temps once I get timming checked, a shroud on and restrict water flow down.
Posted By: feets
Re: What electric fan to use?? Running hot - 08/01/11 03:39 PM
It's good that you found a solution.
Now, put a thermostat in the car. Forget the restrictor.
A fan shroud will help quite a bit too.
Posted By: rapom
Re: What electric fan to use?? Running hot - 08/02/11 09:34 PM
Buy a Milodeon high flow stat. I had a Napa superstat and my car ran 20 degrees hotter than stat size. Mildeon only ran 10 degrees hotter.